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6 Lexington Ave

Metro-North passenger train derails in NYC

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A Metro-North train whipped around a sharp turn in the Bronx on Sunday morning just before a deadly derailment that killed four, injured dozens and tossed passengers around like rag dolls. The engineer at the controls of the train headed toward Grand Central Terminal told supervisors that he tried to apply the brakes, a source told the Daily News. But the train didn’t slow down as it took the curve just north of the Spuyten Duyvil station at about 7:20 a.m. “It’s definitely human error,” a different source told The News. “The speed was excessive.” All seven of the train’s cars and its locomotive derailed. One train car flipped down a river bank, coming to rest just inches from the water where the Harlem River meets the Hudson.“We were going so fast around that turn, something wasn’t right,” said Kathleen Jones, 60, a nurse’s aide from Poughkeepsie.

 

Read more: Source

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All of the cars are still on land...but the lead cab car almost went into the drink. There are fatalities.

Edited by aemoreira81

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NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) - Police confirm that a Metro-North passenger train has derailed in the Bronx.There are multiple injuries, some serious, fire officials said.Emergency crews were on the scene removing passengers from inside the cars, WCBS 880′s Monica Miller reported. Some of the injured were seen on stretchers.

Read more: http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/12/01/metro-north-train-derails-near-spuyten-duyvil/

 

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Seems like an unfortunate case of one or maybe more of the following:

1.) Speeding

2.) Engineer negligence

3.) Engineer health problems

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That is crazy.... this all too eerily reminds me of the Spanish High Speed Rail incident this past summer. I guess we'll have to wait for more details to come out, but it looks like the train had to be traveling at least 1.5 - 2 times the speed limit for that section of track to derail like that.

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@Fan Railer:

 

Or:

 

4.) The train malfunctioned all of a sudden

 

But you probably didn't include that because all trains are so perfect that you figured it was easier to suspect the engineer.

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@Fan Railer:

 

Or:

 

4.) The train malfunctioned all of a sudden

 

But you probably didn't include that because all trains are so perfect that you figured it was easier to suspect the engineer.

Your suggestion of a "train malfunction" is so vague, I can't even imagine what it even means. Nor can I imagine what kind of "train malfunction" would lead to a train that was following the posted speeds around a curve to end up so far off of the tracks. I would likely suspect poor track maintenance as a better alternative to engineer fault, but time may reveal that it was either one, or the other, or a combination of both, where poorly maintained track is aggravated by speeding, which causes the failure.

  • Upvote 3

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They always go for human error, because it's then that person's fault.

 

Most deadly plane crashes the airlines try to blame the pilots, more so if they're not there to defend themselves.

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They always go for human error, because it's then that person's fault.

 

Most deadly plane crashes the airlines try to blame the pilots, more so if they're not there to defend themselves.

 

That is why there is the NTSB. They're likely on their way to investigate this crash now...I see 3 possible causes:

 

1. Speeding

2. Brake/bogie failure

3. Undetected kink/break in the rail

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They always go for human error, because it's then that person's fault.

 

Most deadly plane crashes the airlines try to blame the pilots, more so if they're not there to defend themselves.

Whatever the fault was, ultimately, it will trace back to human error. Whether it was the engineer, or track maintenance, or car maintenance, something went wrong that could have been prevented.

 

Wasn't this the same spot of that freight train derailment a few weeks back?

Not exactly, but pretty close to it:

metroN_zpsb19a104f.jpg

Pink is today's accident, and yellow is the derailment back in July.

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So let's say the engineer was hitting the brakes on time to prepare for the curve but the train's brakes didn't work. Who's fault is it then? The maintenance shop, maybe, but it could also be that the brakes malfunctioned on its own. Or some other malfunction. I'm not an m/m so I don't know *every* single part of the train's internals.

 

Or maybe it was just a slip-slide caused by that goo fallen leaves leave behind. Who's fault is it then, the engineer because he didn't clear the track of leaves and goo?

 

I'm not saying it's not the engineer's fault nor that it's no human error, I just don't like it when people automatically assume it was the engineer (or some other human) even though it could've been anything. Technology isn't perfect either, you know. Even with maintenance technology *can* malfunction.

Edited by Vistausss

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So let's say the engineer was hitting the brakes on time to prepare for the curve but the train's brakes didn't work. Who's fault is it then? The maintenance shop, maybe, but it could also be that the brakes malfunctioned on its own. Or some other malfunction. I'm not an m/m so I don't know *every* single part of the train's internals.

 

Or maybe it was just a slip-slide caused by that goo fallen leaves leave behind. Who's fault is it then, the engineer because he didn't clear the track of leaves and goo?

 

I'm not saying it's not the engineer's fault nor that it's no human error, I just don't like it when people automatically assume it was the engineer (or some other human) even though it could've been anything. Technology isn't perfect either, you know. Even with maintenance technology *can* malfunction.

This is true, and perhaps may be the case.

 

 

A law enforcement official on the scene and familiar with the investigation said the train operator told investigators he applied brakes to the train, but it didn't slow down.

^^from updated CNN article.

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It's best not to speculate.  You do not know exactly what happened so placing the blame on anybody or anything is going to get us nowhere.  So put a sock in it.

 

How come nobody has wondered weather the engineer or members of the crew are alright??  Let's worry about that before we start pointing fingers.

 

Speculation doesn't help in situations like these.  Just the facts, please.

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Metro North is havingsuch an bad year this year, this is the second time amtrak has to suspend service. From the picture in nytimes it looks like the the opposite from the 14 street wreck. It could be speeding through the curve or maybe the track problem since MNR is all focused on the NHL http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/02/nyregion/metro-north-derailment.html?WT.z_sma=NY_AL4_20131129&_r=0


This is true, and perhaps may be the case.

^^from updated CNN article.

I believe after this any operator will try to make the best saying they applied the brakes, because of guilt.

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I'm wondering if deferred maintainance can be a factor according to what many newspaper editors are suggesting. This has been a problem with both MNRR and NYC Transit in conclusive accident investigations as of very recently. It could be the case here.
 
 Metro-North’s chief engineer Robert Puciloski had said this :

 "Earlier this month, Metro-North’s chief engineer, Robert Puciloski, told members of the NTSB investigating the May derailment and Ludent’s death that the railroad is “behind in several areas,” including a five-year schedule of cyclical maintenance that had not been conducted in the area of the Bridgeport derailment since 2005."

As for the question of the train's speed at the time:

"Metropolitan Transportation Authority spokeswoman Marjorie Anders said the big curve where the derailment occurred is in a slow speed area. The black box should be able to tell how fast the train was traveling, Anders said."

 

There are many reasons why this could have occurred and it may or may not have anything to do with the train crew.
 

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