NYPD top cop Bratton says he’s ‘more or less solved’ stop-and-frisk issues

[CenSin]

Meaning? 

The criminals must be happy that they get a break. There's nothing scarier than an enemy (the cops) that's willing to go after everyone to get a small number of people.

[MHV9218]

The criminals must be happy that they get a break. There's nothing scarier than an enemy (the cops) that's willing to go after everyone to get a small number of people.

 

Not exactly a break...the program never worked in the first place.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Not exactly a break...the program never worked in the first place.

The program worked and still works... The problem with de Blasio over Bratton would be a lack of enforcement of a police tool that is a necessity to fight crime and keep riff-raff out of desirable neighborhoods.

[realizm]

The program worked and still works... The problem with de Blasio over Bratton would be a lack of enforcement of a police tool that is a necessity to fight crime and keep riff-raff out of desirable neighborhoods.

 

Martin Luther King said some wise words while as a black man was imprisoned in Birmingham Jail in the fight against segregationists enforcing black apartheid in the 50's. He said:

 

"Any law that uplifts human personality is just. Any law that degrades human personality is unjust."

 

"An unjust law is a code that a numerical or power majority group compels a minority group to obey but does not make binding on itself. This is difference made legal."

 

From his logic what he is saying is that the insidious Jim Crow laws were designed to oppress persons of color keeping them in respective neighborhoods and out of white majority public places and places of residence. The stop and frisk policy similarly was is a form of policing where we even have blacks and Latinos unreasonably stopped in so called influential neighborhoods to keep the residental neighborhoods segregated, affluent ones limited to white and Asian only.

 

Keep in mind this:

 

George Wallace as the newly elected governor of Alabama in 1963 delivered an inaugural address, which was written by a known Ku Klux Klansman, Asa Carter. Mr. Wallace opposed to the federal goverment's orders to stop black apartheid, stated “I draw the line in the dust at the feet of tyranny, segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever.”

 

Now Bloomberg accompanied by former commish Ray Kelly in in the light of the ruling over the controversial stop and frisk issue stated let white New Yorkers know that were not going to abide by the ruling of the federal judge, using the same patterns of expression stating:  Stop and frisk today, stop and frisk tomorrow, stop and frisk forever.

 

An alarming parallel of loaded words.

 

Along with countless incidents of blacks and Latinos harassed by the NYPD in affluent residential neighborhoods he in effect stated that he is bent on promoting the segregation of New York City using this policy. Bratton stopped that from his experiences in LA and the ethnic violence there.

 

Of course you will avert your eyes from this post and continue with your loaded statements just like the Klu Klux Klansmen stated in 1963, which was practically repeated by Bloomberg. 

 

Keep riff raff (blacks and Latinos) out of your white neighborhoods. That's what you meant in effect therefore you support segregation. Do us a favor and say it straight this time instead of with your double tongued one line posts.

 

 

The criminals must be happy that they get a break. There's nothing scarier than an enemy (the cops) that's willing to go after everyone to get a small number of people.

Scroll up and read. Thank you.

[realizm]

Not exactly a break...the program never worked in the first place.

 

Let me add to this: We both know it is really a modern form of enforcement of segregation. As NYC is now the most segregated city in this country. So it f**king worked alright. Seems some are cheering this on like this is a joke MHV. Must be the new trend around here.

[Turbo19]

it's time people say the truth, and stop skirting the lines of being PC. Say what you have to say, f**k, maybe then people will be more respected around here.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

 

Martin Luther King said some wise words while as a black man was imprisoned in Birmingham Jail in the fight against segregationists enforcing black apartheid in the 50's. He said:

 

"Any law that uplifts human personality is just. Any law that degrades human personality is unjust."

 

"An unjust law is a code that a numerical or power majority group compels a minority group to obey but does not make binding on itself. This is difference made legal."

 

From his logic what he is saying is that the insidious Jim Crow laws were designed to oppress persons of color keeping them in respective neighborhoods and out of white majority public places and places of residence. The stop and frisk policy similarly was is a form of policing where we even have blacks and Latinos unreasonably stopped in so called influential neighborhoods to keep the residental neighborhoods segregated, affluent ones limited to white and Asian only.

 

Keep in mind this:

 

George Wallace as the newly elected governor of Alabama in 1963 delivered an inaugural address, which was written by a known Ku Klux Klansman, Asa Carter. Mr. Wallace opposed to the federal goverment's orders to stop black apartheid, stated “I draw the line in the dust at the feet of tyranny, segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever.”

 

Now Bloomberg accompanied by former commish Ray Kelly in in the light of the ruling over the controversial stop and frisk issue stated let white New Yorkers know that were not going to abide by the ruling of the federal judge, using the same patterns of expression stating:  Stop and frisk today, stop and frisk tomorrow, stop and frisk forever.

 

An alarming parallel of loaded words.

 

Along with countless incidents of blacks and Latinos harassed by the NYPD in affluent residential neighborhoods he in effect stated that he is bent on promoting the segregation of New York City using this policy. Bratton stopped that from his experiences in LA and the ethnic violence there.

 

Of course you will avert your eyes from this post and continue with your loaded statements just like the Klu Klux Klansmen stated in 1963, which was practically repeated by Bloomberg. 

 

Keep riff raff (blacks and Latinos) out of your white neighborhoods. That's what you meant in effect therefore you support segregation. Do us a favor and say it straight this time instead of with your double tongued one line posts.

lol... I don't know where to start... Listen Stop & Frisk has been around for many years now and has been used around the country.  It's not new and it won't go away either.  It was deemed LEGAL by the Supreme Court years ago, so I don't even know what you're going on and on about.  With regards to the NYPD, it was ruled that the way in which Stop & Frisk was used wasn't appropriate, but even your buddy de Blasio stated that Stop & Frisk won't go away. It's been proven time and time again that it is a necessary tool for police around the country to fight crime, so it isn't going anywhere any time soon.  Maybe you support rampant crime, but I don't want it in my community, so I support the police doing whatever it takes to keep the thugs at bay.

[Turbo19]

lol... I don't know where to start... Listen Stop & Frisk has been around for many years now and has been used around the country.  It's not new and it won't go away either.  It was deemed LEGAL by the Supreme Court years ago, so I don't even know what you're going on and on about.  With regards to the NYPD, it was ruled that the way in which Stop & Frisk was used wasn't appropriate, but even your buddy de Blasio stated that Stop & Frisk won't go away. It's been proven time and time again that it is a necessary tool for police around the country to fight crime, so it isn't going anywhere any time soon.  Maybe you support rampant crime, but I don't want it in my community, so I support the police doing whatever it takes to keep the thugs at bay.

What the Supreme Court deems legal and what is ethically correct are two different things. Likewise fear of crime and actualt crime are two different things.

 

I mention this because it goes back to the same argument that they are irrelevant.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

What the Supreme Court deems legal and what is ethically correct are two different things. Likewise fear of crime and actualt crime are two different things.

 

I mention this because it goes back to the same argument that they are irrelevant.

Well the fact of the matter is S & F is legal.  There are a lot of things that could be debated in terms of whether it's "ethical" or not.  This is about what's good for our society overall.  Productive members of society should be protected by the law from those who seek to disrupt or destroy their quality of life.  Without effective policing tools such as S & F, our society would be overrun by the criminals and we can't allow that to happen.  

[Turbo19]

Well the fact of the matter is S & F is legal.  There are a lot of things that could be debated in terms of whether it's "ethical" or not.  This is about what's good for our society overall.  Productive members of society should be protected by the law from those who seek to disrupt or destroy their quality of life.  Without effective policing tools such as S & F, our society would be overrun by the criminals and we can't allow that to happen.  

I don't have all day to go back and forth. I'm not explaining the specifics, but simply put the NYPD's way of using the tactic is wrong and could easily be deemed unconstitutional.

 

Read up on some outside sources and return.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I don't have all day to go back and forth. I'm not explaining the specifics, but simply put the NYPD's way of using the tactic is wrong and could easily be deemed unconstitutional.

 

Read up on some outside sources and return.

That's already been established, but as was stated, S & F will still exist in NYC and across the country.  What was deemed illegal was taken care of and removed.  It's up to de Blasio to ensure that this vital police tool continues to be utilized to ensure public safety and low crime.

[realizm]

lol... I don't know where to start... Listen Stop & Frisk has been around for many years now and has been used around the country.  It's not new and it won't go away either.  It was deemed LEGAL by the Supreme Court years ago, so I don't even know what you're going on and on about.  With regards to the NYPD, it was ruled that the way in which Stop & Frisk was used wasn't appropriate, but even your buddy de Blasio stated that Stop & Frisk won't go away. It's been proven time and time again that it is a necessary tool for police around the country to fight crime, so it isn't going anywhere any time soon.  Maybe you support rampant crime, but I don't want it in my community, so I support the police doing whatever it takes to keep the thugs at bay.

 

1) 86% of those stopped and frisked were black and Latino. That was the issue. Racial profiling.

 

2) Answer is reform of practices so that police will use the stop and frisk better to apprehend criminals rather than harrass every black man they see..

 

3) I dont support rampant crime.

 

4) I dont care about your community Riverdale that you live in.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1) 86% of those stopped and frisked were black and Latino. That was the issue. Racial profiling.

 

2) Answer is reform of practices so that police will use the stop and frisk better to apprehend criminals rather than harrass every black man they see..

 

3) I dont support rampant crime.

 

1) Yeah and you conveniently left out how much crime groups commit in NYC in proportion to how much crime they commit... The groups that commit the most crime are stopped the most.  No real surprise there.  As I've said many times, if the NYPD was out "to get the minorities" as you keep trying to imply, then they would be stopping tons of Asians as well, yet they aren't.  Why? Because Asians don't commit lots of crime, therefore they are stopped much. 

 

2) Which has been done...

 

3) Hmm... Sometimes I wonder... 

[CenSin]

I'm going to be take some unpopular positions (given the forum demographics) since so few people dare to. Some thought provocation is sorely needed.

 

What if the most crimes happen to be committed in area where the population is also black and Latino? Is law enforcement not allowed to deploy according to the crime heat map because it happens for correspond to the racial map as well? If cops in Flushing harassed every black or Latino, then it would be racism; the cops would be obviously singling out people of specific races from an area that is predominantly Asian—and wasting resources in a low-crime area at the same time.

 

As long as law enforcement happens where it is needed and not just because there are blacks and Latinos, then their activity is justified even if it happens so that blacks and Latinos are disproportionately targeted.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I'm going to be take some unpopular positions (given the forum demographics) since so few people dare to. Some thought provocation is sorely needed.

 

What if the most crimes happen to be committed in area where the population is also black and Latino? Is law enforcement not allowed to deploy according to the crime heat map because it happens for correspond to the racial map as well? If cops in Flushing harassed every black or Latino, then it would be racism; the cops would be obviously singling out people of specific races from an area that is predominantly Asian—and wasting resources in a low-crime area at the same time.

 

As long as law enforcement happens where it is needed and just because there are blacks and Latinos, then their activity is justified even if it happens so that blacks and Latinos are disproportionately targeted.

My point exactly.  If Asians were committing lots of crimes, they would stopped accordingly too...

[CenSin]

My point exactly.  If Asians were committing lots of crimes, they would stopped accordingly too...

Most dangerous cities in the U.S.: http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mlj45jggj/1-detroit/

Safest cities in the U.S.: http://www.parenting.com/gallery/safest-cities-in-america-2012

 

Look up the demographic data of each city on Wikipedia. The results are unsurprising. It's going to hurt a lot of people, but statistics don't lie.

[realizm]

My point exactly. If Asians were committing lots of crimes, they would stopped accordingly too...

 

Most dangerous cities in the U.S.: http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mlj45jggj/1-detroit/

Safest cities in the U.S.: http://www.parenting.com/gallery/safest-cities-in-america-2012

 

Look up the demographic data of each city on Wikipedia. The results are unsurprising. It's going to hurt a lot of people, but statistics don't lie.

Blacks and Latinos: The large part of the reason why crime is high in the ghettos is exactly so: Low income neighborhoods. Being poor can psychologically take its toll on the residents of a low income neighborhood. many youths with seemingly nowhere to turn, end up in gangs that perpetrate violence that's how it happens. Many feel oppressed and this creates tensions. Sometimes it explodes.

 

Now lets talk about my Asian brothers and sisters: Many Asians who come into the United States mingle in upper middle class neighborhoods. Since they are secure financially they do not have to struggle to make ends meet. Exception is the Asian ghettos. Where 80% of the Asian immigrant population resides below the poverty line. Many cultural factors play in why Asians are not collectively as high in terms of crime activity involvement, this is something paradoxical. To this day sociologists, activists and psychologists cannot determine why it is so because of lack of data on the Asian American experience where it comes to interaction in this country as Americans.

 

However it is not necessarily Asians that are feeling the brunt of overt racism as some have clung on the the erroneous model minority image. Again however there are exceptions even to this as Asian gangs (offshoots of the Triads and other forms of Asian organized marfia) are on the rise in Los Angeles and is rising, violently.

 

Anyway the model minority myth prevails and plays a part in why Asians are not stopped and harassed with the exception of a recent incident where a man in his 80's was viciously attacked by cops over a jaywalking violation.

 

Feel free to debate the point.

 

*Sources:

 

http://www.irp.wisc.edu/publications/focus/pdfs/foc281e.pdf

 

http://www.education.com/reference/article/unraveling-minority-myth-asian-students/

 

http://economichardship.org/asian-americans-the-invisible-poor/

 

Sociological, economic, and psychological studies dont lie.

[Turbo19]

Most dangerous cities in the U.S.: http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mlj45jggj/1-detroit/

Safest cities in the U.S.: http://www.parenting.com/gallery/safest-cities-in-america-2012

 

Look up the demographic data of each city on Wikipedia. The results are unsurprising. It's going to hurt a lot of people, but statistics don't lie.

Not to call you out but you are comparing urban epicenters against suburban enclaves. Two things wrong with that.

 

1. Urban areas would have a greater crime rate in general simply because it is a denser environment in comparison to the suburbs. Actually if one were to move to the suburbs one would see near equal crime in the specific area.

 

2. There are more minorities in urban areas as there are many factors that keep them out of the suburbs, such as distance from workplace, lack of transit, and HOA's and other regulations serving as covers to keep minorities out.

 

And I speak on the latter issue as a minority currently residing in a Californian suburb that got in and is seeking for a way back into the city away from the pre fabricated realm of bullshit.

[ScreechyFlange]

Since we're on the topic of nitpicking blacks and Latinos based off of statistical data I've come up with a genius proposal based off of the analogy being used by my fellow posters =]. How about we stop and frisk Causaian males who enter movie theaters and schools since they're the ones commiting mass killings. The data doesn't lie people...

[CenSin]

How about we stop and frisk Causaian males who enter movie theaters and schools since they're the ones commiting mass killings. The data doesn't lie people...

The data is only useful if there's lot of it. A few scattered events don't make a trend or and statistical statement. At 30~36+ samples, then the numbers start to say something meaningful. It's statistics 101.

[CenSin]

2. There are more minorities in urban areas as there are many factors that keep them out of the suburbs, such as distance from workplace, lack of transit, and HOA's and other regulations serving as covers to keep minorities out.

Now we're getting somewhere. I'll throw in money as a factor as well.

[realizm]

The data is only useful if there's lot of it. A few scattered events don't make a trend or and statistical statement. At 30~36+ samples, then the numbers start to say something meaningful. It's statistics 101.

 

But you seem to miss the point (deliberately) on the dynamics behind the trends which I have just mentioned which goes back to the times of apartheid and the great deal. Looks like I just wasted my time. Not surprising. 

 

Fact: When we had the Irish, Italian, Jewish and Norwegian immigrants occupying the ghettos in NYC crime was also at an all time high in the late 19th/early 20th century if you recall. Blow the dust off your history books and read up on it. Since you seem to entertain this idea of segregation as the solution to racism as your calling card and motto.

Now we're getting somewhere. I'll throw in money as a factor as well.

 

Yeah again segregation is key, in the mind of the Asian man blinded by the model minority myth.

[Turbo19]

The data is only useful if there's lot of it. A few scattered events don't make a trend or and statistical statement. At 30~36+ samples, then the numbers start to say something meaningful. It's statistics 101.

These events aren't scattered, rather they are the foundation of building a new statistic, as it is how all statistics are created and later used for various purposes.

 

Furthermore at 50+ on various campus throughout the US in the last four years, since 2010 alone, I do beg to differ that this statistic isn't meaningful.

 

Now we're getting somewhere. I'll throw in money as a factor as well.

Everything I listed is derivative of lack of personal finance. Many have found it beneficial to locate in urban areas, well at least until recently where in many areas the working class are being priced out by new construction along with higher rents, etc, etc. It is becoming that much harder for the middle to survive.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Blacks and Latinos: The large part of the reason why crime is high in the ghettos is exactly so: Low income neighborhoods. Being poor can psychologically take its toll on the residents of a low income neighborhood. many youths with seemingly nowhere to turn, end up in gangs that perpetrate violence that's how it happens. Many feel oppressed and this creates tensions. Sometimes it explodes.

 

Now lets talk about my Asian brothers and sisters: Many Asians who come into the United States mingle in upper middle class neighborhoods. Since they are secure financially they do not have to struggle to make ends meet. Exception is the Asian ghettos. Where 80% of the Asian immigrant population resides below the poverty line. Many cultural factors play in why Asians are not collectively as high in terms of crime activity involvement, this is something paradoxical. To this day sociologists, activists and psychologists cannot determine why it is so because of lack of data on the Asian American experience where it comes to interaction in this country as Americans.

 

However it is not necessarily Asians that are feeling the brunt of overt racism as some have clung on the the erroneous model minority image. Again however there are exceptions even to this as Asian gangs (offshoots of the Triads and other forms of Asian organized marfia) are on the rise in Los Angeles and is rising, violently.

 

Anyway the model minority myth prevails and plays a part in why Asians are not stopped and harassed with the exception of a recent incident where a man in his 80's was viciously attacked by cops over a jaywalking violation.

 

Feel free to debate the point.

 

*Sources:

 

http://www.irp.wisc.edu/publications/focus/pdfs/foc281e.pdf

 

http://www.education.com/reference/article/unraveling-minority-myth-asian-students/

 

http://economichardship.org/asian-americans-the-invisible-poor/

 

Sociological, economic, and psychological studies dont lie.

I'm not sure what you mean exactly by "minority model myth", but I'll say this... Using one's economic situation as an excuse as to why one group commits more crime over others seems like an easy way out.  You make it sound as if Asians arrive in the U.S. loaded.  Some of them arrive okay, but many of them don't and what do they do?  They don't make excuses.  They go out and work hard, so the notion that some minority groups commit crimes because they're stuck in poverty is a lame excuse.  Asians as a minority group show time and time again that you can arrive here with very little and work your way up.  In fact a friend of mine from a long time ago, both of his parents worked crazy hours.  They were rarely ever home, but they found a way to live in a good neighborhood in South Brooklyn and successfully raised two well mannered Asian males.  One of them was working in Goldman Sachs for a while... This from a Chinese family that arrived speaking no English...  My buddy came here at 4, had to learn English and so on, so the American dream is possible for everyone that wants it to be.  Those that look for excuses will continue to look for them.

[realizm]

I'm not sure what you mean exactly by "minority model myth", but I'll say this... Using one's economic situation as an excuse as to why one group commits more crime over others seems like an easy way out.  You make it sound as if Asians arrive in the U.S. loaded.  Some of them arrive okay, but many of them don't and what do they do?  They don't make excuses.  They go out and work hard, so the notion that some minority groups commit crimes because they're stuck in poverty is a lame excuse.

 

You are sounding like a talking parrot.

 

What do I mean by the model minority myth? I will explain it again.

 

The way you just erroneously described the Asian American experience in your post. The fact that racists assume that all Asians have it exceptionally easy in life while full of ethnic self hate when it is not so. Are you Asian? Would you know?

 

I think I would know not all Asians come into this country 'loaded' because first I am from a poor Asian family who worked hard to get where we are all at as all professionals, and second in regards to this ridiculous response that I was the one that made the statement that in reality most Asians are poor to begin with:

 

http://economichardship.org/asian-americans-the-invisible-poor/

 

Between 2000 and 2011 the official AAPI poverty rate only increased by .3 percent. Yet during the same period, according to the report, the actual number of AAPIs living in poverty increased by 50 percent, which means there are roughly half a million more AAPIs living in poverty today than there were ten years ago.

 

“AAPI poor are one of the fastest growing poverty populations in the wake of the Recession,” states the report.

 

Asians as a minority group show time and time again that you can arrive here with very little and work your way up.  In fact a friend of mine from a long time ago, both of his parents worked crazy hours.  They were rarely ever home, but they found a way to live in a good neighborhood in South Brooklyn and successfully raised two well mannered Asian males.  One of them was working in Goldman Sachs for a while... This from a Chinese family that arrived speaking no English...  My buddy came here at 4, had to learn English and so on, so the American dream is possible for everyone that wants it to be.  Those that look for excuses will continue to look for them.

 

Explain that to the hundreds and hundreds of souls stuck on minimum wage jobs in the Asian ghettos, trapped with no future. Thank you you are helping much in spewing the model minority myth in our faces right here. And making excuses for it like an apologist. Meanwhile I dont make excuses. Thats not because I am Asian in itself by the way, but because I tend to be, as an Asian, a realist instead of a reverse racist.