PM rush hour blues...2/5....

[Juelz4309]

As a regualr user of the 2/5 line upper white plains line I have some opinions...

 

 

why dosent the 5 serve 180-238 as scheduled during the PM rush hours? I cant begin to count the amount of "nereid ave" 5s Ive been on and its to the point now when i reach 180 st I expect this..... go express to Gun hill and drop out..or reroute to dyer..WHY!!!! Its should be advertised as "Gun Hill/white plains rd bound 5 Express"...becuase 8 times outta 10 this is what happens...Only this past thursday for the first time in about a month the "nereid ave bound" 5 ACTUALLY went local all the way up after 180...I live off 225 btw...I was shocked ..

 

Now im aware that this is a "supplemental" service to the 2 but damn! how is it helpin the 2 by goin up to gun hill s then goin outta service? which leads me to my another thing...what the hell is wrong with the switches south of 219!!!!! the 5 NEVERS switches to the local track after gun hill...I feel it should at LEAST do this much...seriously...these 2s are packed arrivin at gun hill...then you dump several dozen more on this?...I feel like the 5 in the PM a role of the dice...it may go...may not...got no problems in the mornin but this afternoon service needs to be adjusted...it either runs or it dosent..

 

.Whats the point in even advertsing the service? this "nereid ave" service should be taken off the map and just "mentioned" on schedules..like the Es that go to jamaica 179-st or the 2s to new lots...Its only a handful of trains that serve this part and as a daily rider I wait faithfully for these "special" 5s.. so the unionport tower should let them thru as locals after 180 st...AS ADVERTISED!.OR run exp to gun hill Then local after.....Its also badly timed becuase youll ALWAYS miss the 2 at gun hill by mere seconds...and the run up wpr is a fast one till burke ave...Its like "That damn 2 knew we were comin"...then you get stuck in this freakin cold high atop gun hill...SMH....

 

 

 

[RkwyPkShuttle]

I'll answer this seeing as I work at Grand Central 2/5 times out of the week and in the Village the rest of the week so I'm a pro to the 2 and 5 now and I get off at 233rd. I've been taking the 5 up White Plain Roads for years now and I can tell you, the first train that leaves 59th Street at 4:44 PM and the last one "scheduled" to leave 59th at 6:44 PM runs local up WPR. (I put it in quotes because there's one or two last ones about half an hour to an hour after; I caught one at 7 PM on Tuesday from Bowling Green during the whole signal malfunction fiasco although the schedule technically says the last one leaves GC at 6:30) 

One thing you'll also notice with the WPR Line after East 180th are that the busiest stations are 233rd (The Woodlawn residents over the bridge, 42 bus, and Edenwald residents on the Bx31) Gun Hill Road (the 41 riders, and the Co-Op residents) and Pelham Parkway (the Pelham Gardens residents and Bx 12) so the majority of the 5's going express actually benefit a large portion of riders as the 2 for the most part usually clears out at Gun Hill. Also, the 2 runs extremely frequently up here in the mornings and evenings. I live right around the corner from the train station so I hear a train pass about every 3-4 minutes and the 5 on its typical 10 minute schedule.

Too many locals coming up = more train traffic, the trains already enter Nereid at a reduced speed so it's best to keep the 5 express to ease congestion. The only thing I can tell you to master the 5 is consistency. For the most part it's usually the same 5's that run express on a daily basis. 

[RollOver]

Here are the answers from Snowblock, one of the transit employees on this forum:

 

http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/36465-improved-nereid-ave-5-service/?p=568290

 

http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/37282-2-5-subway-bronx-ridership-demands/?p=586773

 

Hope this helps.

[AndrewJC]

As a regualr user of the 2/5 line upper white plains line I have some opinions...

 

 

why dosent the 5 serve 180-238 as scheduled during the PM rush hours? I cant begin to count the amount of "nereid ave" 5s Ive been on and its to the point now when i reach 180 st I expect this..... go express to Gun hill and drop out..or reroute to dyer..WHY!!!! Its should be advertised as "Gun Hill/white plains rd bound 5 Express"...becuase 8 times outta 10 this is what happens...Only this past thursday for the first time in about a month the "nereid ave bound" 5 ACTUALLY went local all the way up after 180...I live off 225 btw...I was shocked ..

 

Now im aware that this is a "supplemental" service to the 2 but damn! how is it helpin the 2 by goin up to gun hill s then goin outta service? which leads me to my another thing...what the hell is wrong with the switches south of 219!!!!! the 5 NEVERS switches to the local track after gun hill...I feel it should at LEAST do this much...seriously...these 2s are packed arrivin at gun hill...then you dump several dozen more on this?...I feel like the 5 in the PM a role of the dice...it may go...may not...got no problems in the mornin but this afternoon service needs to be adjusted...it either runs or it dosent..

 

.Whats the point in even advertsing the service? this "nereid ave" service should be taken off the map and just "mentioned" on schedules..like the Es that go to jamaica 179-st or the 2s to new lots...Its only a handful of trains that serve this part and as a daily rider I wait faithfully for these "special" 5s.. so the unionport tower should let them thru as locals after 180 st...AS ADVERTISED!.OR run exp to gun hill Then local after.....Its also badly timed becuase youll ALWAYS miss the 2 at gun hill by mere seconds...and the run up wpr is a fast one till burke ave...Its like "That damn 2 knew we were comin"...then you get stuck in this freakin cold high atop gun hill...SMH....

 

I thought they stopped doing that a long time ago.

 

The operation is certainly easier if trains drop out at Gun Hill on the middle track, but if they do that then they're not serving most of the stations they're supposed to serve on the upper WPR line. Barring anything particularly unusual, they should be making local stops to 238th.

 

Have you sent an email to express your displeasure? http://mta-nyc.custhelp.com/app/ask

[LTA1992]

The funny thing is that the Thru-Express used to actually go all the way ti Gun Hill Rd. Then local form there. I forget when that stopped.

[N4 Via Merrick Rd]

The funny thing is that the Thru-Express used to actually go all the way ti Gun Hill Rd. Then local form there. I forget when that stopped.

Wasn't it in the late 1990s or the early 2000s?

 

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[FRACertifyMotormen]

In the PM rush hours, there really isn't much demand for 5 service to 238 Street.  The only reason they even have service to and from 238 Street is to store excess 5 trains at 239 Street yard that cannot be handled at E180 Street/Unionport yard.   The only reason there is even service to and from 238 Street is to keep quiet those riders who lost full time 5 service when the 2 and 5 flipped north terminals in the 1960's.  Changing demographics and changing ridership patterns have made the 5 service to and from the upper White Plains Road line almost unnecessary.  

[Juelz4309]

I dont understand How You find there isn't demand there for the 5 ...Its not fair that the service is only Only "provided" to get the extra trains to 239...If this is the case then like I said To begin with...It shouldnt even be mentioned as a service....Someone said it "serves" Important stops as Pelham, Gun Hill, 233...Nah It Actually Only serves Gun Hill...Today Was another Suprise tho...My Neried Ave 5 Actually Went In front Of a 2 at 180!!!! Another shocker! I feel like what should happen with ALL 12 trains is Local after 180 to 238...Period...Or local after gun hill to 238....People do rely on the 5 up becuase the 2 is such a treacherously slow ass ride...its either run the service as advertised...Or Advertise it as run...which is Bronx thru express to Gun hill/Wpr...

 

 

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[AndrewJC]

Wasn't it in the late 1990s or the early 2000s? Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

I believe it was the 1960's.

 

In the PM rush hours, there really isn't much demand for 5 service to 238 Street.  The only reason they even have service to and from 238 Street is to store excess 5 trains at 239 Street yard that cannot be handled at E180 Street/Unionport yard.   The only reason there is even service to and from 238 Street is to keep quiet those riders who lost full time 5 service when the 2 and 5 flipped north terminals in the 1960's.  Changing demographics and changing ridership patterns have made the 5 service to and from the upper White Plains Road line almost unnecessary.  

 

That's complete nonsense. Go up to East 180th yourself and look at the loads on those 5 trains - or, if they're running up the middle to Gun Hill, on the next 2 that comes along to pick everybody up. The service is provided because there is a significant demand for it.

 

Changing demographic patterns and changing ridership patterns? Yes, ridership at every single one of those stations has been growing. The service is needed more than ever.

 

Nobody cares what happened in the 1960's. Almost nobody who rides the subway regularly today rode the subway regularly in the 1960's.

[FRACertifyMotormen]

As someone who's worked the  5, I speak from experience--31 year's worth.  The 5 service on the upper White Plains Rd. line is not as heavily used as it was years ago.  That is especially true in the PM rush hours.   I know it may not seem like that to a commuter, but it's true.  The reason most 5 service in the PM rush goes express to Gun Hill Rd., and then lays  up, is to not interfere with 2 service going to 241 Street.  Those 2 trains, and often the crews, are needed for service back to Brooklyn, whereas the 5's are all bound for  the yard, and with one exception, the crews are ending their runs for the day.

[N6 Limited]

They might as well send the express to E180 then

[bobtehpanda]

They might as well send the express to E180 then

 

If both the and are going express, what the hell is going local?

[RTOMan]

As someone who's worked the 5, I speak from experience--31 year's worth. The 5 service on the upper White Plains Rd. line is not as heavily used as it was years ago. That is especially true in the PM rush hours. I know it may not seem like that to a commuter, but it's true. The reason most 5 service in the PM rush goes express to Gun Hill Rd., and then lays up, is to not interfere with 2 service going to 241 Street. Those 2 trains, and often the crews, are needed for service back to Brooklyn, whereas the 5's are all bound for the yard, and with one exception, the crews are ending their runs for the day.

 

Great reply, thank you. Years moving the train trumps most replies from those who never have.

[Juelz4309]

So I get It now...the 5 is only there to serve the yard...Then Why not Have em drop out at E180 And deadhead All the way

up? Why Even Bother Droppin out at Gun Hill???? Evryone here is sayin "the 5 isnt needed on the upper wpr" So Then MTA needs to acknowledge this service pattern and Let people Know this Already!..Change ALL signage on maps, in stations, apps, etc to Read " To Dyre Avenue Via Bx Exp...PM rush Hours to Gun Hill/ White Plains Via Exp"....Becuase the 5 Local after 180-238 Just simply dosent exist as currently published....All im tryna point out here....If The 5s cuase so much congestions to the 2 then why even Offer the service to begin with???

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Trainmaster5]

So I get It now...the 5 is only there to serve the yard...Then Why not Have em drop out at E180 And deadhead All the way up? Why Even Bother Droppin out at Gun Hill???? Evryone here is sayin "the 5 isnt needed on the upper wpr" So Then MTA needs to acknowledge this service pattern and Let people Know this Already!..Change ALL signage on maps, in stations, apps, etc to Read " To Dyre Avenue Via Bx Exp...PM rush Hours to Gun Hill/ White Plains Via Exp"....Becuase the 5 Local after 180-238 Just simply dosent exist as currently published....All im tryna point out here....If The 5s cuase so much congestions to the 2 then why even Offer the service to begin with??? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Let's put this perspective. In another thread you started you wanted all day service along White Plains Road, to the detriment of the Dyre riders. When that was pointed out to you you suggested sending every third up that way. IIRC you stated that you recently moved to the area and in that thread I pointed out the historical reasons for the operation of the along WPR. In this thread AndrewJC and a few present-day  or recent RTO employees have tried to give you the reasons the operates the way it does up there. Quite frankly it should be obvious that the is the most important service operating on that segment, not the , yet because it's not operating the way you want it to therefore the whole routing should be done away with. As I pointed out in your other thread you feel it's OK to shaft other riders for your benefit. Talk about throwing the baby out with the bath water. I understand your frustration with the pm service up there but it seems that everyone has tried to point out what's been happening up there yet you refuse to acknowledge the problem. I personally think that the problem started when the all day to Flatbush Avenue started operation. Before that service began many of those to WPR trains came north from Bowling Green after leaving East 180th St s/b. They weren't affected by the problems, for the most part, of the , , and in Brooklyn or the West Side. Now any problems on the Nostrand Avenue or Eastern Parkway lines have a ripple affect on both the and lines on both ends. When those and crews get up to your part of the line the trains and crews are a hindrance to the 241 St dispatchers. Any delay to a train of either service between East 180th St and Nereid Avenue on the local track negatively impacts the primary service, the line. Right before I retired almost every night there were line crews caught up in the conga line north of East 180th St heading up WPR. I could make a connection with a train at East 180th St and change ends at Dyre Avenue ready to head south while that same crew was still heading northbound toward 241 St. That's the reason for so many WPR trains dropping out at Gun Hill Road middle instead of making all local stops from East 180th St to Nereid. I know this doesn't help you but I guess they're doing it this way for the benefit of the line riders and crews. Carry on.

[RTOMan]

So I get It now...the 5 is only there to serve the yard...Then Why not Have em drop out at E180 And deadhead All the way

up? Why Even Bother Droppin out at Gun Hill???? Evryone here is sayin "the 5 isnt needed on the upper wpr" So Then MTA needs to acknowledge this service pattern and Let people Know this Already!..Change ALL signage on maps, in stations, apps, etc to Read " To Dyre Avenue Via Bx Exp...PM rush Hours to Gun Hill/ White Plains Via Exp"....Becuase the 5 Local after 180-238 Just simply dosent exist as currently published....All im tryna point out here....If The 5s cuase so much congestions to the 2 then why even Offer the service to begin with???

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Please just take the advice you are given and move on!

 

 

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[AndrewJC]

As someone who's worked the  5, I speak from experience--31 year's worth.  The 5 service on the upper White Plains Rd. line is not as heavily used as it was years ago.  That is especially true in the PM rush hours.   I know it may not seem like that to a commuter, but it's true.  The reason most 5 service in the PM rush goes express to Gun Hill Rd., and then lays  up, is to not interfere with 2 service going to 241 Street.  Those 2 trains, and often the crews, are needed for service back to Brooklyn, whereas the 5's are all bound for  the yard, and with one exception, the crews are ending their runs for the day.

 

Experience operating trains is very different from experience looking at ridership trends. Demand has, in fact, been increasing, not decreasing, at those stations, for both the 2 and the 5. Reducing service is not the answer.

 

I understand why it is operationally more convenient to run the 5 trains express to Gun Hill. But by that argument, it would be operationally most convenient of all to simply leave the train doors closed and run the trains without having to worry about passengers at all! The fact remains that the trains run to serve the ridership, not to be operationally convenient.

 

I was at East 180th one afternoon a few years ago (I don't recall the exact date, but it was before countdown clocks came to the WPR). I came in a 5 to Nereid, which was diverted up the express to Gun Hill. We just missed a connection with a 2, but I was going to Pelham Parkway, so I got off to wait for the next 2 or Nereid 5. First came a 5 to Dyre, then another 5 to Nereid which was also diverted to Gun Hill, and finally, after 12 minutes of waiting, the next 2. The train left the station crush loaded, with a good number of people left behind on the platform.

 

Are you seriously suggesting that my original 5 train, if it had followed the 2, would have interfered with 2 service? The crew would have had nearly 12 minutes to clean out the train at Nereid before the next 2 arrived behind it. Instead, not only were the riders of three 5 trains unnecessarily delayed, but the next 2, which was presumably already running late, was itself delayed further by the crush loads holding the doors - it took the conductor almost two minutes to get the doors closed at East 180th.

 

The 5 trains that are scheduled to make local stops to Nereid should, barring unusual circumstances, make local stops to Nereid. Period.

 

Let's put this perspective. In another thread you started you wanted all day service along White Plains Road, to the detriment of the Dyre riders. When that was pointed out to you you suggested sending every third up that way. IIRC you stated that you recently moved to the area and in that thread I pointed out the historical reasons for the operation of the along WPR. In this thread AndrewJC and a few present-day  or recent RTO employees have tried to give you the reasons the operates the way it does up there. Quite frankly it should be obvious that the is the most important service operating on that segment, not the , yet because it's not operating the way you want it to therefore the whole routing should be done away with. As I pointed out in your other thread you feel it's OK to shaft other riders for your benefit. Talk about throwing the baby out with the bath water. I understand your frustration with the pm service up there but it seems that everyone has tried to point out what's been happening up there yet you refuse to acknowledge the problem. I personally think that the problem started when the all day to Flatbush Avenue started operation. Before that service began many of those to WPR trains came north from Bowling Green after leaving East 180th St s/b. They weren't affected by the problems, for the most part, of the , , and in Brooklyn or the West Side. Now any problems on the Nostrand Avenue or Eastern Parkway lines have a ripple affect on both the and lines on both ends. When those and crews get up to your part of the line the trains and crews are a hindrance to the 241 St dispatchers. Any delay to a train of either service between East 180th St and Nereid Avenue on the local track negatively impacts the primary service, the line. Right before I retired almost every night there were line crews caught up in the conga line north of East 180th St heading up WPR. I could make a connection with a train at East 180th St and change ends at Dyre Avenue ready to head south while that same crew was still heading northbound toward 241 St. That's the reason for so many WPR trains dropping out at Gun Hill Road middle instead of making all local stops from East 180th St to Nereid. I know this doesn't help you but I guess they're doing it this way for the benefit of the line riders and crews. Carry on.

 

Actually, Trainmaster5, I took Juelz4309's side in this case, and I still agree with him. And while you make some interesting points about the long and complex run of the 5, I don't see them as justifying the consistent, regular practice of dropping out 5's at Gun Hill.

 

If the service is too complex to be operated at all, then it should be officially eliminated. Otherwise, it should run as advertised, barring unusual circumstances.

 

And if you're going to condemn posters based on their posting history, don't forget this gem. It works both ways.

 

Please just take the advice you are given and move on!

 

The advice I gave him was to express his displeasure through official channels. If he's not getting the service that's scheduled to operate on his line, he has every right to complain about it.

[Trainmaster5]

Experience operating trains is very different from experience looking at ridership trends. Demand has, in fact, been increasing, not decreasing, at those stations, for both the 2 and the 5. Reducing service is not the answer.

 

I understand why it is operationally more convenient to run the 5 trains express to Gun Hill. But by that argument, it would be operationally most convenient of all to simply leave the train doors closed and run the trains without having to worry about passengers at all! The fact remains that the trains run to serve the ridership, not to be operationally convenient.

 

I was at East 180th one afternoon a few years ago (I don't recall the exact date, but it was before countdown clocks came to the WPR). I came in a 5 to Nereid, which was diverted up the express to Gun Hill. We just missed a connection with a 2, but I was going to Pelham Parkway, so I got off to wait for the next 2 or Nereid 5. First came a 5 to Dyre, then another 5 to Nereid which was also diverted to Gun Hill, and finally, after 12 minutes of waiting, the next 2. The train left the station crush loaded, with a good number of people left behind on the platform.

 

Are you seriously suggesting that my original 5 train, if it had followed the 2, would have interfered with 2 service? The crew would have had nearly 12 minutes to clean out the train at Nereid before the next 2 arrived behind it. Instead, not only were the riders of three 5 trains unnecessarily delayed, but the next 2, which was presumably already running late, was itself delayed further by the crush loads holding the doors - it took the conductor almost two minutes to get the doors closed at East 180th.

 

The 5 trains that are scheduled to make local stops to Nereid should, barring unusual circumstances, make local stops to Nereid. Period.

 

 

Actually, Trainmaster5, I took Juelz4309's side in this case, and I still agree with him. And while you make some interesting points about the long and complex run of the 5, I don't see them as justifying the consistent, regular practice of dropping out 5's at Gun Hill.

 

If the service is too complex to be operated at all, then it should be officially eliminated. Otherwise, it should run as advertised, barring unusual circumstances.

 

And if you're going to condemn posters based on their posting history, don't forget this gem. It works both ways.

 

 

The advice I gave him was to express his displeasure through official channels. If he's not getting the service that's scheduled to operate on his line, he has every right to complain about it.

I actually agree with your last paragraph. IMO to eliminate the haphazard operation up there is to send all trains, and local from East 180th St up the WPR corridor which was the published service and was implemented locally by the supervision at East 180th St and 241st St with little or no problem.for years. The difference was that at one time every train came into the terminal where there was personnel and a police presence to speed up the actual fumigation of the trains. From what I can see at the present time every "sick", homeless, or indifferent rider who will not or can not be removed at Nereid Avenue will cause a delay to all trains behind that train. I honestly don't remember the switch layout north of Gun Hill Road since the removal of the Third Ave El connection tracks but IIRC the service can and should be run as advertised and if a problem arises there are ways to mitigate the backups. As you pointed out the OP should contact the officials in charge ASAP and keep it up. If they don't recognize any complaints from the ridership they will continue doing what they want. It appears that they feel there is no opposition to their operations up there. That's what happens when a person sitting at a console at W 54th St makes the decisions for that segment of the IRT. The long time ridership up there knew that the PM dispatcher at East 180th St wouldn't let that type of garbage happen. The new people in charge decided that his hands-on dispatching methods weren't needed anymore and the ridership actually liked him so, before they could exile him to the Unionport Tower, he put his papers in. That's why we end up in situations like the one you and the OP describe. It's not rocket science, believe me. Carry on.

[BrooklynIRT]

Juelz, perhaps you should bring this up at an MTA board meeting. There is one on Monday at 10:30 and one on Wednesday at 10:00. I will be at the one on Wednesday to speak about a very different transit issue, but if you want to come in for any reason, such as possibly discussing this issue with me further and getting something done about it, just let me know. I might be able to help quite a bit. The meetings are at 347 Madison Ave.

[RTOMan]

That's the thing Andrew I never said anything about him not complaining about it,hence your words take the advice he was given which you gave.... Complaining about it here on a message board won't solve any problems. Like Trainmaster said it's not rocket science.

 

 

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[FRACertifyMotormen]

Juelz, perhaps you should bring this up at an MTA board meeting. There is one on Monday at 10:30 and one on Wednesday at 10:00. I will be at the one on Wednesday to speak about a very different transit issue, but if you want to come in for any reason, such as possibly discussing this issue with me further and getting something done about it, just let me know. I might be able to help quite a bit. The meetings are at 347 Madison Ave.

In addition, get involved with your local community boards.  As they say, the squeaky wheel gets the most oil.   I live on the Dyre line side of the 5, and thanks to my community board, we now get decent service.  And no trains skip Morris Park during a delay.

[Juelz4309]

Experience operating trains is very different from experience looking at ridership trends. Demand has, in fact, been increasing, not decreasing, at those stations, for both the 2 and the 5. Reducing service is not the answer.

 

I understand why it is operationally more convenient to run the 5 trains express to Gun Hill. But by that argument, it would be operationally most convenient of all to simply leave the train doors closed and run the trains without having to worry about passengers at all! The fact remains that the trains run to serve the ridership, not to be operationally convenient.

 

I was at East 180th one afternoon a few years ago (I don't recall the exact date, but it was before countdown clocks came to the WPR). I came in a 5 to Nereid, which was diverted up the express to Gun Hill. We just missed a connection with a 2, but I was going to Pelham Parkway, so I got off to wait for the next 2 or Nereid 5. First came a 5 to Dyre, then another 5 to Nereid which was also diverted to Gun Hill, and finally, after 12 minutes of waiting, the next 2. The train left the station crush loaded, with a good number of people left behind on the platform.

 

Are you seriously suggesting that my original 5 train, if it had followed the 2, would have interfered with 2 service? The crew would have had nearly 12 minutes to clean out the train at Nereid before the next 2 arrived behind it. Instead, not only were the riders of three 5 trains unnecessarily delayed, but the next 2, which was presumably already running late, was itself delayed further by the crush loads holding the doors - it took the conductor almost two minutes to get the doors closed at East 180th.

 

The 5 trains that are scheduled to make local stops to Nereid should, barring unusual circumstances, make local stops to Nereid. Period.

 

 

Actually, Trainmaster5, I took Juelz4309's side in this case, and I still agree with him. And while you make some interesting points about the long and complex run of the 5, I don't see them as justifying the consistent, regular practice of dropping out 5's at Gun Hill.

 

If the service is too complex to be operated at all, then it should be officially eliminated. Otherwise, it should run as advertised, barring unusual circumstances.

 

And if you're going to condemn posters based on their posting history, don't forget this gem. It works both ways.

 

 

The advice I gave him was to express his displeasure through official channels. If he's not getting the service that's scheduled to operate on his line, he has every right to complain about it.

I appreciate it that somebody hear sees what Im tryna say about this!! 

In addition, get involved with your local community boards.  As they say, the squeaky wheel gets the most oil.   I live on the Dyre line side of the 5, and thanks to my community board, we now get decent service.  And no trains skip Morris Park during a delay.

This is one of one the best answers ive gotten here @FCAcertifymotorman...Ill look into this Indeed!

[Juelz4309]

Let's put this perspective. In another thread you started you wanted all day service along White Plains Road, to the detriment of the Dyre riders. When that was pointed out to you you suggested sending every third up that way. IIRC you stated that you recently moved to the area and in that thread I pointed out the historical reasons for the operation of the along WPR. In this thread AndrewJC and a few present-day  or recent RTO employees have tried to give you the reasons the operates the way it does up there. Quite frankly it should be obvious that the is the most important service operating on that segment, not the , yet because it's not operating the way you want it to therefore the whole routing should be done away with. As I pointed out in your other thread you feel it's OK to shaft other riders for your benefit. Talk about throwing the baby out with the bath water. I understand your frustration with the pm service up there but it seems that everyone has tried to point out what's been happening up there yet you refuse to acknowledge the problem. I personally think that the problem started when the all day to Flatbush Avenue started operation. Before that service began many of those to WPR trains came north from Bowling Green after leaving East 180th St s/b. They weren't affected by the problems, for the most part, of the , , and in Brooklyn or the West Side. Now any problems on the Nostrand Avenue or Eastern Parkway lines have a ripple affect on both the and lines on both ends. When those and crews get up to your part of the line the trains and crews are a hindrance to the 241 St dispatchers. Any delay to a train of either service between East 180th St and Nereid Avenue on the local track negatively impacts the primary service, the line. Right before I retired almost every night there were line crews caught up in the conga line north of East 180th St heading up WPR. I could make a connection with a train at East 180th St and change ends at Dyre Avenue ready to head south while that same crew was still heading northbound toward 241 St. That's the reason for so many WPR trains dropping out at Gun Hill Road middle instead of making all local stops from East 180th St to Nereid. I know this doesn't help you but I guess they're doing it this way for the benefit of the line riders and crews. Carry on.

First off ...I cant speak on the service pre-all day flatbush service...as i didnt live up here back then but I can say that regardless if the 5 ran from flatbush or the green it will still be a "hindrance" to 241 tower dispatchers...Like FCAcertifiedmotorman  said here already...the service is provided for the commuting public...NOT for operational benefits...The headways on the 2 or the "primary line"  as u put it Have seem to be deacresing for a line of such importance on the real...Ive arrived at 180 with gaps of 12-15 MINUTES at PEAK rush hour...the platform is CRUSH.. loaded and when it does arrive the 2 tends to run exp Pelham,Gun Hill,233 becuase of lateness (with the next one "right" behind it)....so the 5 is MUCH needed from my point of view...This afternoon (1/23/2014) I cuaght a nereid ave 5 and when we reached 180 the next 2 wasnt due to arrive for a full 11 minutes...Ive never seen the 5 so crowded and THANKFULLY unionport tower had enuff sense to realize the gap and we actually went local up to 238...kudos for a change! lol...so for a line that so called the "primary line" it damn sure dosent operate like one...now i realize the 2 shares trackage with the "3" and the "5 but 10-15 minute gaps at 6PM  is simply Unacceptable on such a busy line...

[Trainmaster5]

First off ...I cant speak on the service pre-all day flatbush service...as i didnt live up here back then but I can say that regardless if the 5 ran from flatbush or the green it will still be a "hindrance" to 241 tower dispatchers...Like FCAcertifiedmotorman  said here already...the service is provided for the commuting public...NOT for operational benefits...The headways on the 2 or the "primary line"  as u put it Have seem to be deacresing for a line of such importance on the real...Ive arrived at 180 with gaps of 12-15 MINUTES at PEAK rush hour...the platform is CRUSH.. loaded and when it does arrive the 2 tends to run exp Pelham,Gun Hill,233 becuase of lateness (with the next one "right" behind it)....so the 5 is MUCH needed from my point of view...This afternoon (1/23/2014) I cuaght a nereid ave 5 and when we reached 180 the next 2 wasnt due to arrive for a full 11 minutes...Ive never seen the 5 so crowded and THANKFULLY unionport tower had enuff sense to realize the gap and we actually went local up to 238...kudos for a change! lol...so for a line that so called the "primary line" it damn sure dosent operate like one...now i realize the 2 shares trackage with the "3" and the "5 but 10-15 minute gaps at 6PM  is simply Unacceptable on such a busy line...

Although I think you've confused FRAcertify with AndrewJC's response I think the best advice was already given to you. That is complain,complain,complain, but not to us on the forums but to the , specifically the line supervision's offices. I've only tried to explain what seems to be occurring on your commutes, using your statements. I think you have a beef with supervision up there but you seem to think that I'm representing them or excusing them for their practices. That is not the case. I'm simply telling you what is happening so when you communicate with the people at the you'll come across as a knowledgeable commuter and not someone who will receive a standard reply. If you write to them or if they still have the Supt's phone number displayed and you call them try to control your anger. Think about what we've told you in the previous posts and convey that to whomever you speak to. Be professional and don't try to come across as a transit know-it-all and let us know what response you get. Good Luck.

[RTOMan]

Although I think you've confused FRAcertify with AndrewJC's response I think the best advice was already given to you. That is complain,complain,complain, but not to us on the forums but to the , specifically the line supervision's offices. I've only tried to explain what seems to be occurring on your commutes, using your statements. I think you have a beef with supervision up there but you seem to think that I'm representing them or excusing them for their practices. That is not the case. I'm simply telling you what is happening so when you communicate with the people at the you'll come across as a knowledgeable commuter and not someone who will receive a standard reply. If you write to them or if they still have the Supt's phone number displayed and you call them try to control your anger. Think about what we've told you in the previous posts and convey that to whomever you speak to. Be professional and don't try to come across as a transit know-it-all and let us know what response you get. Good Luck.

 

Great Post!