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Bronx Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

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11 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

I could also see a variant of the Q50 (Bx51?) ending at the dock.

Extend the Bx23 to the Ferry, it is the local version of the Q50, it just won't go to Queens. The City can pay for it due to the blank check reimbursement.

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1 hour ago, GreatOne2k said:

Extend the Bx23 to the Ferry, it is the local version of the Q50, it just won't go to Queens. The City can pay for it due to the blank check reimbursement.

Don't expect that "blank check" to last forever.

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1 hour ago, GreatOne2k said:

Extend the Bx23 to the Ferry, it is the local version of the Q50, it just won't go to Queens. The City can pay for it due to the blank check reimbursement.

The Bx23 exists as a Co-Op City loop route and it should stay that way. It does a half decent job doing what it already does, having it serve two completely new markets beyond what it was already designed to do is asking for trouble. Furthermore just running it up and down Bruckner isn't going to do much anyway; you're not gonna get much ridership return to the ferry just off of Bruckner. A more comprehensive route that serves more areas (Such as the one B35 via Church suggested on pg 106) is far more useful to the public and is much more worth the money spent than extending a route another 2(?) miles down the road.

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My god what is everyone's obsession with extending a bus route down there. Just have NYC Ferry run its own shuttle down to the boat from miscellaneous ridership points and call it a day. To be quite frank there's no good route you could manipulate to serve that little terminal without bending over backwards or messing up an existing route. What matters is that the thing is served adequately with -some- sort of service, be it via the MTA or via some other private party. And the MTA really isn't a good option here unless someone gives them the money to draw up and run a brand new route that is useful to the surrounding communities.

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6 minutes ago, Orion6025 said:

The Bx23 exists as a Co-Op City loop route and it should stay that way. It does a half decent job doing what it already does, having it serve two completely new markets beyond what it was already designed to do is asking for trouble. Furthermore just running it up and down Bruckner isn't going to do much anyway; you're not gonna get much ridership return to the ferry just off of Bruckner. A more comprehensive route that serves more areas (Such as the one B35 via Church suggested on pg 106) is far more useful to the public and is much more worth the money spent than extending a route another 2(?) miles down the road.

----

My god what is everyone's obsession with extending a bus route down there. Just have NYC Ferry run its own shuttle down to the boat from miscellaneous ridership points and call it a day. To be quite frank there's no good route you could manipulate to serve that little terminal without bending over backwards or messing up an existing route. What matters is that the thing is served adequately with -some- sort of service, be it via the MTA or via some other private party. And the MTA really isn't a good option here unless someone gives them the money to draw up and run a brand new route that is useful to the surrounding communities.

The Bx23 can help the Q50 with the ridership to/from Target and the other stores in the shopping center it will be more than just ferry riders.  Some Co Op City residents at a meeting did mention something about having a route go to the Soundview Ferry. They could wait a few years and have the Bx23 to the Ferry Point Park stop. Some rush hour Bx23 trips will still be Co Op City loop shuttles, all of the off peak trips will be extended to Ring Road in Ferry Point Park. 

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On ‎1‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 9:20 PM, Orion6025 said:

The Bx23 exists as a Co-Op City loop route and it should stay that way. It does a half decent job doing what it already does, having it serve two completely new markets beyond what it was already designed to do is asking for trouble. Furthermore just running it up and down Bruckner isn't going to do much anyway; you're not gonna get much ridership return to the ferry just off of Bruckner. A more comprehensive route that serves more areas (Such as the one B35 via Church suggested on pg 106) is far more useful to the public and is much more worth the money spent than extending a route another 2(?) miles down the road.

----

My god what is everyone's obsession with extending a bus route down there. Just have NYC Ferry run its own shuttle down to the boat from miscellaneous ridership points and call it a day. To be quite frank there's no good route you could manipulate to serve that little terminal without bending over backwards or messing up an existing route. What matters is that the thing is served adequately with -some- sort of service, be it via the MTA or via some other private party. And the MTA really isn't a good option here unless someone gives them the money to draw up and run a brand new route that is useful to the surrounding communities.

In principle, it made sense to split the old QBx1 into the Q50 & the Bx23.... At the same time though, IDRC much for how the Bx23 operates TBH (far too sluggish for its purposes; buses should be transporting folks within Co-Op or taking Co-op patrons to the subway at a better rate than it currently does)... It's like b/o's are told to crawl the route or something.... Highly annoying; I don't bother fanning the thing much & I don't think I've ever used it outside of for that purpose.....

I wouldn't extend/divert a current MTA service down to Ferry Point Park for the exact same reason you brought up.... It'd amount to a marring of sorts & to create a spinoff/variant of an existing route for the specific purpose of running down there, I don't see as being worth it.... I think you get those that saw the Bx27 get that little extension down to Clason Point Park & expect the MTA to continue on with that trend with any future ferry dock/station locations.....

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I found this via Subchat's Buschat...https://new.mta.info/sites/default/files/2019-02/Bronx Bus Network Redesign Presentation_02.06.19.pdf

I got to say after the redesign of the Staten Island Express Bus Network, I was skeptical about all the other future redesign. However, after reviewing this Document, it seems as if they're putting more effort into correctly implementing changes of this magnitude... I'm somewhat eager to see what they come with...🤔

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Yeah, I skimmed through that PDF already.... It essentially tells me nothing & I am highly skeptical of the "trade offs" section..... Too oversimplified.

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2 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Yeah, I skimmed through that PDF already.... It essentially tells me nothing & I am highly skeptical of the "trade offs" section..... Too oversimplified.

Agreed... I believe that the chick working on the Bronx express redesign should be in my meeting this week. I'll see if I can pick her brain as to how things are going.  She already knows that I'm skeptical of the whole thing. :lol: I told her in the last meeting, I said, I think you have a damn good express bus network for the Bronx. Most routes are pretty direct. You DON'T have lots of stops and the street configurations are what they are. Your turnaround points aren't very complicated, so I'm curious to see what you're going to come up with.  The room became dead quiet. LOL Then she goes, well the changes are 70-30%. 70% will stay the same and 30% will change.

P.S. I see I'm in the one in Riverdale... 

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8
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Posted (edited)

Anyone ever thought of how we can have local x routes besides areas in Queens? One route that can benefit from this is the Bx12. At least during rush hours have a Bx12x SBS that runs between Inwood and Pelham Bay with it meant to mostly serve subway and Metro North stops. So basically we would have the Bx12x stops like this:

*Broadway/W 207 St

*W 207 St/10 Av

*Fordham Road/Jerome Av

*E Fordham Road/Grand Concourse (This stop can be debated on; could be skipped and not served by the Bx12x due to close proximity with Jerome Av and arguably Fordham Plaza too.)

*Fordham Plaza

*Pelham Parkway/White Plains Road

*Pelham Parkway/Williamsbridge Road (just like Grand Concourse I don't see this stop needing to be used by the Bx12x)

*Pelham Parkway/Eastchester Road (only to serve Jacobi Medical Center and if the Williamsbridge Road stop is not used)

*Pelham Bay

Edited by MysteriousBtrain
Bx12x is a variant of the Bx12 SBS

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3 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Anyone ever thought of how we can have local x routes besides areas in Queens? One route that can benefit from this is the Bx12. At least during rush hours have a Bx12x SBS that runs between Inwood and Pelham Bay with it meant to mostly serve subway and Metro North stops. So basically we would have the Bx12x stops like this:

*Broadway/W 207 St

*W 207 St/10 Av

*Fordham Road/Jerome Av

*E Fordham Road/Grand Concourse (This stop can be debated on; could be skipped and not served by the Bx12x due to close proximity with Jerome Av and arguably Fordham Plaza too.)

*Fordham Plaza

*Pelham Parkway/White Plains Road

*Pelham Parkway/Williamsbridge Road (just like Grand Concourse I don't see this stop needing to be used by the Bx12x)

*Pelham Parkway/Eastchester Road (only to serve Jacobi Medical Center and if the Williamsbridge Road stop is not used)

*Pelham Bay

Hold up, what bus route in Queens has a local X variant?

Also, this is just the Bx12 SBS with no stops in Co-Op or between 10th Av and Jerome, or at Southern Blvd, it probably wouldn't save that much time.

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8 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

Hold up, what bus route in Queens has a local X variant?

Also, this is just the Bx12 SBS with no stops in Co-Op or between 10th Av and Jerome, or at Southern Blvd, it probably wouldn't save that much time.

No x locals in Queens, just a proposed thing in a Queens bus study. And this proposal is more to "distribute the overloaded crowds" as less stops may have people thinking it will be faster when it really isn't.

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Regarding this Bx12x SBS discussion:

So this is essentially a "super-express"? If so, i suppose it would be nice since faster service is always a good thing. That said, from my experience with the Bx12 SBS, the issue isn't so much speed but rather the traffic flow and delays due to crowding. I admit I don't use it daily so take my opinion for what it's worth but all those delays around fordham, etc in the western bronx are all the fault of car congestion and even though being able to pass up a stop does of course save some time, would it amount to enough of a savings over the entire route to justify either the cost of adding extra Bx12x SBS trips, or reducing Bx12 SBS service, leaving a few stops with more infrequent service and worse crowding? I suppose if you sliced a few more stops  to turn it more into a Co-Op city/pelham bay to manh/west bronx route as opposed to being more useful to local travel, you could cut eastchester (williamsbridge also seems "cut-able" but that transfer to the 5 train is more valuable IMO than the transfer to the BxM10 at eastchester) and grand concourse...

If the Fordham/Pelham corridor is to become more useful, then something about traffic mitigation (Jerome to the Plaza, as well as the lead in to the University Heights Bridge, especially on the Bx side) and addressing overcrowding would be more appropriate or beneficial to a wider range of people

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1 hour ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

No x locals in Queens, just a proposed thing in a Queens bus study. And this proposal is more to "distribute the overloaded crowds" as less stops may have people thinking it will be faster when it really isn't.

Where can I access this Queens Bus study? 

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Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

Where can I access this Queens Bus study? 

https://www.mta.info/sites/default/files/northeast_queens_bus_study_-_final_9-28-15.pdf

MTA calls it "Limited Zone service" (proposed to include the Q12, Q17, Q27, Q43, Q46, and Q88) but this idea is somewhat similar to what I'm proposing.

Edited by MysteriousBtrain
Start at page 68
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6 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

https://www.mta.info/sites/default/files/northeast_queens_bus_study_-_final_9-28-15.pdf

MTA calls it "Limited Zone service" (proposed to include the Q12, Q17, Q27, Q43, Q46, and Q88) but this idea is somewhat similar to what I'm proposing.

Thanks. I though these “X” Routes was something different entirely and not the Limited Zone Service Idea. (Which I actually like to be honest)

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7 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

No x locals in Queens, just a proposed thing in a Queens bus study. And this proposal is more to "distribute the overloaded crowds" as less stops may have people thinking it will be faster when it really isn't.

That isn't really similar to what I believe an X variant is supposed to be at all, though. This variant has way too many stops in the middle.

To me, an X variant would be something skipping all stops between, say, 179 St and Springfield Blvd on the Q43. So the Bx12 equivalent would be something like a bus that doesn't stop between  10th Av and White Plains Road, or 10th Av and Eastchester.

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23 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Anyone ever thought of how we can have local x routes besides areas in Queens?

One route that can benefit from this is the Bx12. At least during rush hours have a Bx12x SBS that runs between Inwood and Pelham Bay with it meant to mostly serve subway and Metro North stops. So basically we would have the Bx12x stops like this:

*Broadway/W 207 St

*W 207 St/10 Av

*Fordham Road/Jerome Av

*E Fordham Road/Grand Concourse (This stop can be debated on; could be skipped and not served by the Bx12x due to close proximity with Jerome Av and arguably Fordham Plaza too.)

*Fordham Plaza

*Pelham Parkway/White Plains Road

*Pelham Parkway/Williamsbridge Road (just like Grand Concourse I don't see this stop needing to be used by the Bx12x)

*Pelham Parkway/Eastchester Road (only to serve Jacobi Medical Center and if the Williamsbridge Road stop is not used)

*Pelham Bay

I'm not understanding why you're asking us about local 'x' routes, but opt to use a completely different route type (SBS) as an example of something that should be making less stops.....

19 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

And this proposal is more to "distribute the overloaded crowds" as less stops may have people thinking it will be faster when it really isn't.

You don't create a different route type (or a variant of a different route type) for the same route for the purposes of passenger distribution though...

11 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

That isn't really similar to what I believe an X variant is supposed to be at all, though. This variant has way too many stops in the middle.

To me, an X variant would be something skipping all stops between, say, 179 St and Springfield Blvd on the Q43. So the Bx12 equivalent would be something like a bus that doesn't stop between  10th Av and White Plains Road, or 10th Av and Eastchester.

There wouldn't be any Bx12 equivalent to that of a Q43 gunning straight to the train station (179th) from Springfield.... The riding pattern on the Bx12 wouldn't support anything like that.... It's a route that cuts through the heart of the entire borough which serves too many subway stations for that.....

My thing about this whole thing is, an 'x' variant of an SBS waters down the purpose of SBS..... For all that's being conveyed in his example, those trips may as well be short turned SBS' running b/w PBP & Isham-207th (making all regular SBS stops b/w that stretch), because as you stated earlier, skipping those 4 stops won't make no real difference - Especially considering what Fordham rd. is traffic-wise during the rush.....

 

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3 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

There wouldn't be any Bx12 equivalent to that of a Q43 gunning straight to the train station (179th) from Springfield.... The riding pattern on the Bx12 wouldn't support anything like that.... It's a route that cuts through the heart of the entire borough which serves too many subway stations for that.....

My thing about this whole thing is, an 'x' variant of an SBS waters down the purpose of SBS..... For all that's being conveyed in his example, those trips may as well be short turned SBS' running b/w PBP & Isham-207th (making all regular SBS stops b/w that stretch), because as you stated earlier, skipping those 4 stops won't make no real difference - Especially considering what Fordham rd. is traffic-wise during the rush.....

I agree about this having zero chance of existing; I was trying to give an example of what that would look like if you were to literally implement it, but I have high doubts that a Inwood express is any sort of viable.

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Just some ideas I had for the Bronx Bus Network Redesign (I dont think all of these ideas are that good, so let me know what you think): 

 

Bx1: Leave as is

Bx1-LTD: Replaced by Bx1-SBS

Bx1-SBS: SBS variant of Bx1

(Reason: To improve bus service on the Grand Concourse corridor)

 

Bx2: Leave as is

 

Bx3: Leave as is

 

Bx4: Rerouted to run via the Bx4A route, more frequent service

Bx4A: Rerouted to run via Bx4 route, less frequent service

(Reason: To improve Bx4 service in Parkchester; could potentially save money)

 

Bx5: Add overnight service (overnight service terminates at Bruckner Commons); runs hourly

(Reason: Ridership in Soundview justifies overnight service)

 

Bx6: Leave as is

Bx6-SBS: Leave as is

 

Bx7: Split service into two sections (Bx7 and M17); Service would run from Riverdale/263 St to Kingsbridge Rd (B)(D) station via Riverdale Av and Kingsbridge Rd 

(Reason: To improve service in Riverdale and Manhattan; allows for a more efficient connection to the (B)(D) and  (4) for Riverdale residents; allows for a connection to a station that is ADA accessible) 

 

Bx8: Split service into two sections (Bx8 and Bx48); Service would run from Locust Pt to Pelham Parkway (5) station (Pelham Gardens). 

(Reason: To save money)

 

Bx9: Leave as is

 

Bx10: Rerouted to run between Riverdale Av/263 St and Inwood - 207 St (A) station via Henry Hudson Pkwy and Broadway; replaces Bx20 in Riverdale and Inwood 

(Reason: To improve service; allows for a more efficient connection to the (A) in Inwood) 

 

Bx11: Leave as is

 

Bx12: Leave as is

Bx12-SBS: Leave as is

 

Bx13: Leave as is

 

Bx14: Would run from Throgs Neck (Throgs Neck Houses) to Harlem (145 St (1) station). Traverses via Bruckner Blvd, 149 St, and 145 St.

Bx14-SBS: SBS variant of Bx14

(Reason: Would allow for more subway connections for SE Bronx residents, and would improve service there; Connects to (1)(2)(3)(4)(5)(6) <6>(A)(B)(C)(D))         

 

Bx15: Leave as is

Bx15-LTD: Leave as is

 

Bx16: Leave as is

 

Bx17: Leave as is

 

*New* M17: Variant of split Bx7, runs between Inwood and 168 St (A)(C)(1) station via Broadway  

(Reason: To improve service in Washington Heights and Inwood; could also save money)

 

Bx18: Leave as is

 

Bx19: Leave as is

 

Bx20: Restructured to run between 231 (1) station and Norwood via the old Bx10 route 

(Reason: To improve service in Kingsbridge and Norwood; could save money)

 

Bx21: Leave as is

 

Bx22: Leave as is

 

Bx23: Leave as is

 

Bx24: Overnight service reduced to running between Westchester Square - East Tremont Av (6)<6> station and Hutchinson Metro Center; runs hourly overnight 

(Reason: To save money)

 

*New* Bx25: Runs between Soundview - Pugsley Avenue and Pelham Parkway (2) station. Traverses via Randall Av, Castle Hill Av, and Bronxdale Av. Extended to Soundview Ferry Terminal during rush hours. 

(Reason: More East Bronx residents would have access to NYC Ferry with the Bx25; Allows for an additional connection to the (2) for Parkchester, Westchester Square, Van Nest, and Morris Park residents) 

 

Bx26: Leave as is

 

Bx27: Leave as is

 

Bx28: Introduce Limited Stop Service

Bx28-LTD: Runs rush hours only

 (Reason: To improve service in Co-op City, allows for a faster connection to the (2) and (5) .) 

 

Bx29: Add overnight service; runs hourly

(Reason: So City Island would not be isolated from the rest of the Bronx (transit-wise) during late night hours)

 

Bx30: Leave as is

 

Bx31: Extended to Castle Hill via Zerega Av

(Reason: Residents of Unionport and Castle Hill would have more bus connections and would have a one-seat ride to hospitals in Morris Park.)

 

Bx32: Leave as is

 

Bx33: Extended to 137 St - City College (1) station

(Reason: Allows for an additional subway connection)

 

Bx34: Weekend service south of Norwood discontinued

(Reason: To save money)

 

Bx35: Leave as is

 

Bx36: Leave as is

Bx36-LTD: Leave as is

 

*New*Bx37: Runs between Fordham Plaza and Eastchester - Dyre Avenue (5) station. Traverses via Boston Rd and Dyre Av. 

(Reason: So part of Boston Rd is not entirely served by Bee-Line; to improve bus service along Boston Rd)

 

Bx38: Leave as is

 

Bx39: Leave as is

 

Bx40: Introduce Select Bus Service

Bx40-SBS: SBS variant of Bx40

(Reason: To improve bus service on the Tremont Av corridor)

 

Bx41: Leave as is

Bx41-SBS: Leave as is

 

Bx42: Leave as is

 

*Q44-SBS is not included as it runs out of a Queens depot

 

*New* Bx45: Runs between Co-op City (Bay Plaza) and 233 St (2) station. Traverses via Baychester Av and 233 St

Bx46: Reduce service to weekdays only

(Reason: To save money)

 

*New*Bx48: Variant of Bx8; extended to run between 233 St (2) station and Pelham Parkway (5) station. Traverses via Williamsbridge Rd and Bronxwood Av 

(Reason: *see Bx8)

 

*New*Bx49: Runs between Parkchester (6)<6> station and East 180 Street (2)(5) station. Traverses via Hugh J. Grant Circle, Metropolitan Av, Aileen B Ryan Oval, Unionport Rd, East Tremont Av, and East 180 Street. 

(Reason: For Parkchester residents to have access to an ADA accessible station.)

 

Q50-LTD: Leave as is

 

M100: Leave as is

 

BxM1: Leave as is

 

BxM2: Leave as is

 

BxM3: Discontinue service north of Broadway/262 St

(Reason: Not enough ridership in Yonkers to justify express bus service)

 

BxM4: Rerouted from Grand Concourse to Webster Av; then runs on Fordham Rd from Webster Av to Major Deegan Expwy; then runs express with the BxM1, BxM2, BxM3, and BxM18 to Midtown.

(Reason: To improve service; to lengthen the express segment)

 

BxM5: Runs from Midtown to Eastchester. Traverses via 5 Av, Bruckner Expwy, Bronx River Pkwy, and Boston Rd.

(Reason: For Northeast Bronx residents to have access to express bus service)

 

BxM6: Leave as is

 

BxM7: Leave as is

 

BxM8: Leave as is

 

BxM9: Leave as is

 

BxM10: New northern terminal at Gun Hill Rd/ Eastchester Rd (Express bus service in Baychester replaced by BxM5)

(Reason: To save money)

 

BxM11: Leave as is

 

BxM18: Leave as is

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On 1/26/2019 at 9:20 PM, Orion6025 said:

My god what is everyone's obsession with extending a bus route down there. Just have NYC Ferry run its own shuttle down to the boat from miscellaneous ridership points and call it a day. To be quite frank there's no good route you could manipulate to serve that little terminal without bending over backwards or messing up an existing route. What matters is that the thing is served adequately with -some- sort of service, be it via the MTA or via some other private party. And the MTA really isn't a good option here unless someone gives them the money to draw up and run a brand new route that is useful to the surrounding communities.

The Bx39 could also be extended if they can find the space for buses to layover (or just lengthen the bus stops at the terminal)

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