Bronx Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1) What the hell difference does it make which direction it is? The point of the matter is that it serves an area not served by the .

 

Like I said Inwood residents have choices and the BxM1 could simply use the Major Deegan instead of meandering about to get to the Harlem River Drive....

 

2) Well you have to give me a chance to answer the question first, don't you?

 

Well what's taking you so long to answer??

 

3) First of all, I have to know which runs are interlined and which aren't (and I already said that if worse comes to worse, you could always extend the ones that aren't interlined. For instance, it looks like that 5:15PM bus from Downtown isn't interlined with anything.

 

Aside from that, B/Os get paid $30 an hour (or something like that). If they have to wait an extra 15 minutes because the interlining changed, that's a whopping $7.50 at most. (Which could easily be made up if you attract 2 extra riders)

 

You wouldn't know what was interlined with what since you don't know what any of the BxM18s do once they finish in Riverdale. For example why don't you tell me what the 17:45 is interlined with??

 

4) So what? You don't need people to be "flocking" to the bus to make up the cost because it would be close to nothing anyway. You only need a couple of riders and the extension will actually generate more revenue.

 

I guess you could always steal them from the BxM3 and that would justify it right??

 

5) ...using an NYC bus route....

 

...To add insult to injury.

[checkmatechamp13]

1) Like I said Inwood residents have choices and the BxM1 could simply use the Major Deegan instead of meandering about to get to the Harlem River Drive....

 

2) Well what's taking you so long to answer??

 

3) You wouldn't know what was interlined with what since you don't know what any of the BxM18s do once they finish in Riverdale. For example why don't you tell me what the 17:45 is interlined with??

 

4) I guess you could always steal them from the BxM3 and that would justify it right??

 

5) ...To add insult to injury.

 

 

1) Yeah, and the choices aren't necessarily as fast as the BxM1. They have the & , but they don't serve the East Side. Does it justify creating a whole new route for them? No, but if an existing route could be routed to serve them, then what's the problem. Obviously, not every single bus should go there, but having the BxM1 does help them.

 

2) I already answered. Realistically, you're not going be adding more than 15-20 minutes of layover, so it would be $7.50 - $10 at most.

 

3) It doesn't look like it's interlined with anything. It gets to 262nd Street at 19:15, which is the same time both a BxM1 & BxM2 leave going towards Midtown. The next BxM2 leaves in 30 minutes, so I doubt he just lays over for 30 minutes. He probably goes straight to the depot, and the 19:15 runs are covered by the 17:30 BxM2 out of Midtown (arrives at 18:55), and the 17:39 BxM1 out of Midtown (arrives at 19:00).

 

4) How do you know there wouldn't be riders coming from the apartments along Riverdale Avenue. For instance, these apartments look like they would have some people who can afford the express bus: https://www.google.com/maps?saddr=broadway+at+207th+street,+ny,+ny&daddr=40.762081,-73.967943&hl=en&ll=40.922268,-73.901167&spn=0.00013,0.076818&sll=40.768192,-73.957472&sspn=0.032437,0.076818&geocode=FW2XbwIdQg2Y-ylTw3P99vPCiTFEyEaHg0Wf6A%3BFU37bQIdtlWX-w&dirflg=r&ttype=dep&date=6%2F28%2F12&time=9:41pm&noexp=0&noal=0&sort=def&mra=dme&mrsp=1&sz=14&t=m&z=14&start=0&layer=c&cbll=40.922142,-73.901156&panoid=vnvl9jjvYcjZZymh1vSl1A&cbp=12,27.24,,0,-6.94 If they work Downtown, it's easier than taking Metro-North.

 

5) So what? Like I said, there are other buses that cross city lines and it benefits people in those areas. The QM5/QM6 go into Lake Success, Long Island.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1) Yeah, and the choices aren't necessarily as fast as the BxM1. They have the & , but they don't serve the East Side. Does it justify creating a whole new route for them? No, but if an existing route could be routed to serve them, then what's the problem. Obviously, not every single bus should go there, but having the BxM1 does help them.

 

Yeah and make the commutes longer for us in Riverdale right?

 

2) I already answered. Realistically, you're not going be adding more than 15-20 minutes of layover, so it would be $7.50 - $10 at most.

Uh huh...

 

3) It doesn't look like it's interlined with anything. It gets to 262nd Street at 19:15, which is the same time both a BxM1 & BxM2 leave going towards Midtown. The next BxM2 leaves in 30 minutes, so I doubt he just lays over for 30 minutes. He probably goes straight to the depot, and the 19:15 runs are covered by the 17:30 BxM2 out of Midtown (arrives at 18:55), and the 17:39 BxM1 out of Midtown (arrives at 19:00).

 

FYI... That BxM18 has a break (dinner probably) and then comes back as a BxM2 (the 20:15 out of Riverdale).

 

4) How do you know there wouldn't be riders coming from the apartments along Riverdale Avenue. For instance, these apartments look like they would have some people who can afford the express bus: https://www.google.c...,27.24,,0,-6.94 If they work Downtown, it's easier than taking Metro-North.

 

Well that's great that we're SO concerned about Westchester residents. You should drop this because this thread is not about Westchester.

 

Oh and spare me with the apartment buildings.... South Yonkers is a dump.

 

5) So what? Like I said, there are other buses that cross city lines and it benefits people in those areas. The QM5/QM6 go into Lake Success, Long Island.

 

 

Oh please... Lake Success is right on the friggin border.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Via Garibaldi 8

[checkmatechamp13]

1) Yeah and make the commutes longer for us in Riverdale right?

 

2) Uh huh...

 

3) FYI... That BxM18 has a break (dinner probably) and then comes back as a BxM2 (the 20:15 out of Riverdale).

 

4) Well that's great that we're SO concerned about Westchester residents. You should drop this because this thread is not about Westchester.

 

Oh and spare me with the apartment buildings.... South Yonkers is a dump.

 

5) Oh please... Lake Success is right on the friggin border.

 

 

1) You said yourself "If I don't want to pass through Inwood, I just take the BxM2. Done".

 

2) Prove me wrong....

 

3) Alright, cool. Like I said, I'd need to know the exact run assignments to determine the cost. Since you either can't or won't provide them, I guess we'll never know for sure the exact cost.

 

4) Yeah, and we're talking about attracting ridership to a Bronx bus route.

 

5) Yeah, and on the wrong side of the border, the same way Yonkers is.

[B35 via Church]

Not sure what you two are going back & forth about, as I haven't been following.....

 

But I'm still not seeing the justification behind sending BxM18's to Getty Square.... the reason GreatOne gave earlier isn't enough, talkin about a one way route..... So what if it's a peak direction route, as was said, some PM outbound BxM18's turn into inbound 1's or 2's anyway after it touches down (ends) in Riverdale anyway..... All these buses are not heading back to YON after their runs.... This logic of, since buses originate in yonkers (YON) & it ending at the county line, may as well extend it there (Getty Sq) to decrease what I like to call "empty mileage", is the same logic the MTA used to have B64's end right in front of UP..... Don't agree with it all, at all.... Leave BxM18's where they are..... I'm not even arguing that the 18 is for Riverdalians right now (although it is certainly a valid argument)....

 

Not necessarily saying Greatone is doing this, but generally speaking, can't b*tch about expresses being so wasteful, the emptiness of them, yada yada yada..... but then want to extend a route (that already gets decent usage) to somewhere where it's highly unlikely that any real (I'm inclined to say any) increase in usage would occur......

 

 

 

South Yonkers is a dump.

 

lol.... you aint never lied.

[checkmatechamp13]

Not sure what you two are going back & forth about, as I haven't been following.....

 

 

We're still talking about the BxM18.

 

This logic of, since buses originate in yonkers (YON) & it ending at the county line, may as well extend it there (Getty Sq) to decrease what I like to call "empty mileage", is the same logic the MTA used to have B64's end right in front of UP.....

 

The thing is that they're not all about decreasing empty milage. I mean, BrooklynBus keeps mentioning how they used to have buses that are going to the depot anyway make a partial trip, and now they just run them "Not In Service" the full length, even when crowds are piling up (and are going to end up delaying the next bus even more).

[B35 via Church]

The thing is that they're not all about decreasing empty milage. I mean, BrooklynBus keeps mentioning how they used to have buses that are going to the depot anyway make a partial trip, and now they just run them "Not In Service" the full length, even when crowds are piling up (and are going to end up delaying the next bus even more).

 

If it's not all about decreasing empty mileage, there there is NO other plausible reason to justify extending BxM18 to Getty Sq.

 

None.

[checkmatechamp13]

If it's not all about decreasing empty mileage, there there is NO other plausible reason to justify extending BxM18 to Getty Sq.

 

None.

 

 

For us, yes it is about decreasing empty milage. But I'm just saying that the MTA doesn't always think like that. The B64 was a cut where it just so happened to accomplish that, but there are a whole bunch of examples where the MTA just blatantly burns up a lot of empty milage when the buses could be put in passenger service.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Not sure what you two are going back & forth about, as I haven't been following.....

 

But I'm still not seeing the justification behind sending BxM18's to Getty Square.... the reason GreatOne gave earlier isn't enough, talkin about a one way route..... So what if it's a peak direction route, as was said, some PM outbound BxM18's turn into inbound 1's or 2's anyway after it touches down (ends) in Riverdale anyway..... All these buses are not heading back to YON after their runs.... This logic of, since buses originate in yonkers (YON) & it ending at the county line, may as well extend it there (Getty Sq) to decrease what I like to call "empty mileage", is the same logic the MTA used to have B64's end right in front of UP..... Don't agree with it all, at all.... Leave BxM18's where they are..... I'm not even arguing that the 18 is for Riverdalians right now (although it is certainly a valid argument)....

 

Not necessarily saying Greatone is doing this, but generally speaking, can't b*tch about expresses being so wasteful, the emptiness of them, yada yada yada..... but then want to extend a route (that already gets decent usage) to somewhere where it's highly unlikely that any real (I'm inclined to say any) increase in usage would occur......

 

 

What is puzzling to me is how one minute according to checkmate, we can't have buses serving every block and the next we can go out of our way to extend a route to an area that is likely to see NO usage and then go on to try to justify it even when he (checkmate) has been told about how many BxM18s turn into BxM1s or BxM2s. What he fails to understand is that the way all three routes are set up allow for those buses to do their next run fairly easily with a minimal amount of deadheading with maybe the exception of the Downtown BxM18s, but still he continues to go on and on about it not costing that much to extend BxM18s to Getty Square even though it would force complete shuffling of runs which could indeed increase costs for no purpose since I don't see anyone using the BxM18 up in South Yonkers. It is a total waste to extend that bus to South Yonkers for the hope of attracting a "few riders" that aren't even in NYC for Christ Sake when the BxM3 doesn't see that much usage AND the BxM4C was cut from Downtown. If a run is getting such good usage then you find a way to keep it running. You don't cut the line and then say oh use the BxM18 because even if it were extended, how far are you going to extend it because Bee Line cut back the route?? I mean that isn't the 's problem or responsibility. The BxM18 wouldn't run the full route of the BxM4C, so folks would still be forced to transfer anyway.

 

And like you said the route already gets decent usage and saw an increase in ridership last year but now suddenly it is suffering so much that it needs to be extended to Getty Square...

Edited June 29, 2012 by Via Garibaldi 8

[checkmatechamp13]

What is puzzling to me is how one minute according to checkmate, we can't have buses serving every block and the next we can go out of our way to extend a route to an area that is likely to see NO usage and then go on to try to justify it even when he (checkmate) has been told about how many BxM18s turn into BxM1s or BxM2s. What he fails to understand is that the way all three routes are set up allow for those buses to do their next run fairly easily with a minimal amount of deadheading with maybe the exception of the Downtown BxM18s, but still he continues to go on and on about it not costing that much to extend BxM18s to Getty Square even though it would force complete shuffling of runs which could indeed increase costs for no purpose since I don't see anyone using the BxM18 up in South Yonkers. It is a total waste to extend that bus to South Yonkers for the hope of attracting a "few riders" that aren't even in NYC for Christ Sake when the BxM3 doesn't see that much usage AND the BxM4C was cut from Downtown. If a run is getting such good usage then you find a way to keep it running. You don't cut the line and then say oh use the BxM18 because even if it were extended, how far are you going to extend it because Bee Line cut back the route?? I mean that isn't the 's problem or responsibility.

 

 

The BxM4C still has good ridership even though it was cut from Downtown. And aside from that, it's on the other side of Yonkers and serves a completely different ridership base, so I don't see how that's relevant.

 

In any case, I still said that if nothing else, you could extend those buses that aren't turning around and becoming BxM1s & BxM2s or whatever. I mean, going Downtown in the morning, I would think those runs come straight from the depot. As far as shuffling goes, I really can't see how expensive that could realistically get.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The BxM4C still has good ridership even though it was cut from Downtown. And aside from that, it's on the other side of Yonkers and serves a completely different ridership base, so I don't see how that's relevant.

 

In any case, I still said that if nothing else, you could extend those buses that aren't turning around and becoming BxM1s & BxM2s or whatever. I mean, going Downtown in the morning, I would think those runs come straight from the depot. As far as shuffling goes, I really can't see how expensive that could realistically get.

 

 

What part of turn into BxM1s and BxM2s do you not understand??? There are only 7 PM BxM18 Northbound Riverdale runs and it is already been noted that the majority of them DON'T go back to Yonkers. The last BxM18 does go back to Yonkers, but the majority of the others don't, so one bus out of 7 has been confirmed. You just are hell bent on arguing a point that is so invalid that isn't even funny.

 

And one reason why it probably would cost more is because seeing the time that those buses finish in Riverdale it is evident that these guys probably get dinner breaks when they finish in Riverdale and then they go back as BxM1s or BxM2s, so you're going to screw up various runs just to serve Getty Square, but yes, keep telling us that it won't be that expensive.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Via Garibaldi 8

[checkmatechamp13]

What part of turn into BxM1s and BxM2s do you not understand??? There are only 7 PM BxM18 Northbound Riverdale runs and it is already been noted that the majority of them DON'T go back to Yonkers. The last BxM18 does go back to Yonkers, but the majority of the others don't, so one bus out of 7 has been confirmed. You just are hell bent on arguing a point that is so invalid that isn't even funny.

 

 

Says the guy who doesn't understand that the BxM4C is on the other side of Yonkers and has nothing to do with this (referring to previous posts)...

 

In any case, like I said, I doubt it would cost much to reschedule the runs a little bit so they can still be interlined.

 

And one reason why it probably would cost more is because seeing the time that those buses finish in Riverdale it is evident that these guys probably get dinner breaks when they finish in Riverdale and then they go back as BxM1s or BxM2s, so you're going to screw up various runs just to serve Getty Square, but yes, keep telling us that it won't be that expensive.

 

 

Edit: Whoops, didn't see this.

 

In any case, we don't know that for a fact without looking at any of the runsheets, do we? Aside from that, maybe it's possible to send some BxM1s & BxM2s up there instead (the ones that aren't going back to Midtown).

Edited June 29, 2012 by checkmatechamp13

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Says the guy who doesn't understand that the BxM4C is on the other side of Yonkers and has nothing to do with this (referring to previous posts)...

 

In any case, like I said, I doubt it would cost much to reschedule the runs a little bit so they can still be interlined.

 

 

No point in discussing this anymore, especially since the would be complete morons in entertaining the idea when there is no proof to show any sort of ridership usage in Getty Square. There is no way they would extend the BxM18 when it already goes to Wall Street from Riverdale, which is long enough. Furthemore, the route runs to Riverdale due to the amount of Wall Street folks that work down there and live in Riverdale, not to mention that usage in Northern Riverdale is not nearly as high as it is from Spuyten Duyvil to where I live in Riverdale. The bus usually empties out considerably once you get to 235th and Henry Hudson Parkway, so they already run it to the border with a few folks on it and now they're going to extend it to Getty Square just to carry air...

Edited June 29, 2012 by Via Garibaldi 8

[GreatOne2k]

BxM18 goes to Riverdale and it's for us and we use it.

 

BxM18 is also for the downtown express bus transfers and has been for years.

 

 

What is puzzling to me is how one minute according to checkmate, we can't have buses serving every block and the next we can go out of our way to extend a route to an area that is likely to see NO usage and then go on to try to justify it even when he (checkmate) has been told about how many BxM18s turn into BxM1s or BxM2s. What he fails to understand is that the way all three routes are set up allow for those buses to do their next run fairly easily with a minimal amount of deadheading with maybe the exception of the Downtown BxM18s, but still he continues to go on and on about it not costing that much to extend BxM18s to Getty Square even though it would force complete shuffling of runs which could indeed increase costs for no purpose since I don't see anyone using the BxM18 up in South Yonkers. It is a total waste to extend that bus to South Yonkers for the hope of attracting a "few riders" that aren't even in NYC for Christ Sake when the BxM3 doesn't see that much usage AND the BxM4C was cut from Downtown. If a run is getting such good usage then you find a way to keep it running. You don't cut the line and then say oh use the BxM18 because even if it were extended, how far are you going to extend it because Bee Line cut back the route?? I mean that isn't the 's problem or responsibility. The BxM18 wouldn't run the full route of the BxM4C, so folks would still be forced to transfer anyway.

 

And like you said the route already gets decent usage and saw an increase in ridership last year but now suddenly it is suffering so much that it needs to be extended to Getty Square...

 

 

Bee Line had budget cuts and cut some portions of the routes that had other alternatives. BxM4C to downtown had the BxM18 as an alternative.

 

This logic of, since buses originate in yonkers (YON) & it ending at the county line, may as well extend it there (Getty Sq) to decrease what I like to call "empty mileage", is the same logic the MTA used to have B64's end right in front of UP..... Don't agree with it all, at all.... Leave BxM18's where they are..... I'm not even arguing that the 18 is for Riverdalians right now (although it is certainly a valid argument)....

 

 

That logic was applied to the running to/from Brooklyn extending the first three and last three runs because the yard is there.

A few buses may run their extended routes a bit longer to get back to the depot in service (Bx5 to Pelham Bay on Saturday nights is an example at 10:45pm and formerly 11:25pm before service was cut back).

[B35 via Church]

That logic was applied to the running to/from Brooklyn extending the first three and last three runs because the yard is there.

 

A few buses may run their extended routes a bit longer to get back to the depot in service

(Bx5 to Pelham Bay on Saturday nights is an example at 10:45pm and formerly 11:25pm before service was cut back).

 

...and your point is what, exactly?

 

- That it's done? That's not being disputed.....

- That since it's done in other instances, it should be done w/ the BxM18 also?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

BxM18 is also for the downtown express bus transfers and has been for years.

 

The primary riders are Riverdale residents #1 and #2 I'm well aware of the express bus transfers for Queens and Bronx residents, which is even more of a reason that it shouldn't be extended. It already serves enough purposes as it is AND it serves NYC quite well, serving the interests of Bronx residents and Queens residents in addition to Riverdale residents. Now we have to serve Westchester residents too?? And if our buses are delayed you'd better believe we'd be screaming like crazy. First off I would oppose any sort of extension there to begin with because that means a longer line, potential increased costs and the looking to see where they can save. Some folks aren't happy with things being fine the way they are... Have to come along to try to **** up everything for everybody else...

 

Bee Line had budget cuts and cut some portions of the routes that had other alternatives. BxM4C to downtown had the BxM18 as an alternative.

 

 

What does the BxM18 have to do with Westchester's bus service????? You want to extend the BxM18 to Getty Square with potential additional costs being paid by NYC RESIDENTS, NOT Westchester residents... Last I checked Bee Line is for Westchester residents and if they cut their service, that isn't Bus' problem, nor our problem.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Via Garibaldi 8

[checkmatechamp13]

Last I checked Bee Line is for Westchester residents and if they cut their service, that isn't Bus' problem, nor our problem.

 

 

Like I said, what does the BxM4C have to do with the BxM18 when it's completely on the other side of Yonkers? When he said it was an alternative, he meant via transfer at 23rd Street, not that riders would actually walk over to Getty Square and pick up another bus.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Like I said, what does the BxM4C have to do with the BxM18 when it's completely on the other side of Yonkers? When he said it was an alternative, he meant via transfer at 23rd Street, not that riders would actually walk over to Getty Square and pick up another bus.

 

 

I know what he means and that's neither here nor there. The point is that either way, that it's a WESTCHESTER problem, not a NYC problem. They've been doing just fine all of these years, not to mention that they've got the BxM3 at Getty Square that they don't use that much and now we have to extend another route past the border, rearrange runs on the hopes of picking up a few passengers for a line that is seeing increased ridership and already gets good usage.... No. A complete waste of resources and if it's going to be waste, at least let it be on NYC taxpayers, not for outside residents.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Via Garibaldi 8

[GreatOne2k]

Last I checked Bee Line is for Westchester residents and if they cut their service, that isn't Bus' problem, nor our problem.

 

 

I was talking about the express bus transfers that BxM4C riders can transfer at 23rd St therefore the BxM4C could be cut below 23rd St. This has nothing to do with the BxM18 being an alternative for Yonkers residents who ride the 4C. Well MTA Bus will just have to deal with 4C riders below 23rd St, and there is nothing that anyone can do about that.

 

Says the guy who doesn't understand that the BxM4C is on the other side of Yonkers and has nothing to do with this (referring to previous posts)...

 

In any case, like I said, I doubt it would cost much to reschedule the runs a little bit so they can still be interlined.

 

Edit: Whoops, didn't see this.

 

In any case, we don't know that for a fact without looking at any of the runsheets, do we? Aside from that, maybe it's possible to send some BxM1s & BxM2s up there instead (the ones that aren't going back to Midtown).

 

 

Definitely possible, in the AM much easier to send any of the three routes in service from Yonkers, the PM would be limited to whatever deadheads (I would prefer the AM and PM to have the same number of trips on one route). If only a few buses deadhead in the PM rush this would end up like the BxM8 to City Island.

 

Like I said, what does the BxM4C have to do with the BxM18 when it's completely on the other side of Yonkers? When he said it was an alternative, he meant via transfer at 23rd Street, not that riders would actually walk over to Getty Square and pick up another bus.

 

 

4C riders are loyal to the 4C (even willing to pay over 7 dollar fare), they wouldn't even consider the BxM3 as an option when the BxM4C was threatened with elimination, so no way would they go for the BxM18 (unless they transferred at 23 St).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I was talking about the express bus transfers that BxM4C riders can transfer at 23rd St therefore the BxM4C could be cut below 23rd St. This has nothing to do with the BxM18 being an alternative for Yonkers residents who ride the 4C. Well MTA Bus will just have to deal with 4C riders below 23rd St, and there is nothing that anyone can do about that.

 

 

 

Definitely possible, in the AM much easier to send any of the three routes in service from Yonkers, the PM would be limited to whatever deadheads (I would prefer the AM and PM to have the same number of trips on one route). If only a few buses deadhead in the PM rush this would end up like the BxM8 to City Island.

 

 

 

4C riders are loyal to the 4C (even willing to pay over 7 dollar fare), they wouldn't even consider the BxM3 as an option when the BxM4C was threatened with elimination, so no way would they go for the BxM18 (unless they transferred at 23 St).

 

 

Well the transfer at 23rd street thing is fine, but sending them up to Getty Square... Forget it. The fact that you've pretty much stated that they wouldn't use the BxM3 as an option yet again illustrates that there is no need to extend the BxM18.

[GreatOne2k]

Well the transfer at 23rd street thing is fine, but sending them up to Getty Square... Forget it. The fact that you've pretty much stated that they wouldn't use the BxM3 as an option yet again illustrates that there is no need to extend the BxM18.

 

 

Any extension of the BxM1, BxM2, or BxM18 on Riverdale Avenue would have NOTHING to do with BxM4C riders (on the other side of Yonkers). This is to attract riders on the other side of Yonkers (mainly Riverdale Avenue) by making deadheads more productive. Since many BxM18 buses are going back in service in the PM, that obviously means that some BxM1 and BxM2 buses will be ending their runs. Either way the point of making deadheads more productive by staying in service applies to any of the three routes. I don't see a problem with rush hour deadheads going to Yonkers and put ins starting from Yonkers. All runs going back to Manhattan will NOT run in Yonkers.

Edited June 29, 2012 by GreatOne2k

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Any extension of the BxM1, BxM2, or BxM18 on Riverdale Avenue would have NOTHING to do with BxM4C riders (on the other side of Yonkers). This is to attract riders on the other side of Yonkers (mainly Riverdale Avenue) by making deadheads more productive. Since many BxM18 buses are going back in service in the PM, that obviously means that some BxM1 and BxM2 buses will be ending their runs. Either way the point of making deadheads more productive by staying in service applies to any of the three routes. I don't see a problem with rush hour deadheads going to Yonkers. All runs going back to Manhattan will NOT run in Yonkers, that's why I said runs offs and put ins.

 

 

The would only be interested in extending routes like these if it meant that there was a substantial amount of ridership that could be gained and South Yonkers is not the place where that would be happening and you know it, so I don't understand why you're even proposing this. Also all three routes #1 are doing just fine and #2, most of the ridership in Riverdale comes from the area around 236th & Riverdale Avenue or Henry Hudson Parkway and down to Kappock, so they're already running them to 263rd street with a few folks on them. You yourself said that the BxM3 doesn't see much ridership up there and then you keep talking about "attracting ridership"... Your proposal makes no sense... If folks aren't using the current express bus, what exactly would make them suddenly say oh my let me start using these express buses because they run down Riverdale Avenue... You haven't offered one good reason to extend these routes because if they're extended and no one is using them then they might as well deadhead to the depot.

 

Also, you and checkmate keep talking about South Yonkers as if it is somehow comparable to Riverdale in terms of money and anyone that frequents that area knows that there is a big difference between Riverdale and South Yonkers, not only in looks but in terms of money. If they really had the money to take the express bus like that up there, then they would be using the BxM3 or they would already be making their way over to Riverdale Avenue and 261st street via car for the first stop to catch the BxM1, BxM2 and BxM18, which also isn't happening because the buses often times don't get crowded until 239th and Henry Hudson Parkway or even later than that which is around where I get on at (anywhere from 239th to 232nd and Henry Hudson Parkway or Riverdale Av & 236th street depending on my mood and me trying to avoid taking the stairs to reach the other side of Henry Hudson Parkway), so this attracting ridership crappola in Yonkers is not going to sell me.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Via Garibaldi 8

[GreatOne2k]

The would only be interested in extending routes like these if it meant that there was a substantial amount of ridership that could be gained and South Yonkers is not the place where that would be happening and you know it, so I don't understand why you're even proposing this. Also all three routes #1 are doing just fine and #2, most of the ridership in Riverdale comes from the area around 236th & Riverdale Avenue or Henry Hudson Parkway and down to Kappock, so they're already running them to 263rd street with a few folks on them. You yourself said that the BxM3 doesn't see much ridership up there and then you keep talking about "attracting ridership"... Your proposal makes no sense... If folks aren't using the current express bus, what exactly would make them suddenly say oh my let me start using these express buses because they run down Riverdale Avenue... You haven't offered one good reason to extend these routes because if they're extended and no one is using them then they might as well deadhead to the depot.

 

Also, you and checkmate keep talking about South Yonkers as if it is somehow comparable to Riverdale in terms of money and anyone that frequents that area knows that there is a big difference between Riverdale and South Yonkers, not only in looks but in terms of money. If they really had the money to take the express bus like that up there, then they would be using the BxM3 or they would already be making their way over to Riverdale Avenue and 261st street via car for the first stop to catch the BxM1, BxM2 and BxM18, which also isn't happening because the buses often times don't get crowded until 239th and Henry Hudson Parkway or even later than that which is around where I get on at (anywhere from 239th to 232nd and Henry Hudson Parkway or Riverdale Av & 236th street depending on my mood and me trying to avoid taking the stairs to reach the other side of Henry Hudson Parkway), so this attracting ridership crappola in Yonkers is not going to sell me.

 

I never said the BxM3 didn't get much usage. I also never said that South Yonkers was comparable to Riverdale, I just said that keeping some buses in service may make them more productive.

 

You think everyone will go via car to an express bus? Some people use a local bus to get the free transfer. The W8 would be their best bet, though the PM rush schedule of the W8 would need to be delayed by about 5 minutes so that the BxM18 could connect to it. The other buses would be better for transferring. Maybe some W8 riders do transfer to the express buses on Riverdale Avenue already.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I never said the BxM3 didn't get much usage. I also never said that South Yonkers was comparable to Riverdale, I just said that keeping some buses in service may make them more productive.

 

You think everyone will go via car to an express bus? Some people use a local bus to get the free transfer. The W8 would be their best bet, though the PM rush schedule of the W8 would need to be delayed by about 5 minutes so that the BxM18 could connect to it. The other buses would be better for transferring. Maybe some W8 riders do transfer to the express buses on Riverdale Avenue already.

 

Well how much usage does the BxM3 get up there then??

 

I also don't understand why you feel that the current BxM1, BxM2 and BxM18 set up is so "unproductive" when there is very little deadheading overall with these three routes? The BxM1 and BxM2 basically just stop at 34th street, make a left on their respective avenues and then come back around and go right back up to Riverdale. Now the BxM18 has some deadheading, Downtown, but it only runs rush hours and serves both Queens and Bronx express bus riders, in addition to us in Riverdale. Furthermore, the runs are relatively short at about an hour or so currently and all three routes have good usage and have seen increases in ridership, with the exclusion of the BxM1 which saw a small decrease. So your proposal would have these buses spending more time in service in hopes of picking up a few passengers, which could make them more delayed and hurt ridership...

[checkmatechamp13]

The damn "Quote" thing is screwing up, so I'll just do it like this.

 

"Well the transfer at 23rd street thing is fine, but sending them up to Getty Square... Forget it. The fact that you've pretty much stated that they wouldn't use the BxM3 as an option yet again illustrates that there is no need to extend the BxM18."

 

Uh, yeah they wouldn't use the BxM3 because it's on the other side of the city. And aside from that, he said that it has nothing to do with BxM4C riders. You keep on saying "Oh, I understand" and then keep bringing this up.

 

"You haven't offered one good reason to extend these routes because if they're extended and no one is using them then they might as well deadhead to the depot."

 

So if nobody would use them, then they're basically deadheading while still keeping the signage up. What's wrong with that? At least people along Riverdale Avenue would have the option of using the service.

 

 

"Also, you and checkmate keep talking about South Yonkers as if it is somehow comparable to Riverdale in terms of money and anyone that frequents that area knows that there is a big difference between Riverdale and South Yonkers, not only in looks but in terms of money. If they really had the money to take the express bus like that up there, then they would be using the BxM3 or they would already be making their way over to Riverdale Avenue and 261st street via car for the first stop to catch the BxM1, BxM2 and BxM18, which also isn't happening because the buses often times don't get crowded until 239th and Henry Hudson Parkway or even later than that which is around where I get on at (anywhere from 239th to 232nd and Henry Hudson Parkway or Riverdale Av & 236th street depending on my mood and me trying to avoid taking the stairs to reach the other side of Henry Hudson Parkway), so this attracting ridership crappola in Yonkers is not going to sell me."

 

When the hell did we say anything about South Yonkers being comparable to Riverdale? And for all you know, there are some riders who do just that.

 

"Well how much usage does the BxM3 get up there then??

 

I also don't understand why you feel that the current BxM1, BxM2 and BxM18 set up is so "unproductive" when there is very little deadheading overall with these three routes? The BxM1 and BxM2 basically just stop at 34th street, make a left on their respective avenues and then come back around and go right back up to Riverdale. Now the BxM18 has some deadheading, Downtown, but it only runs rush hours and serves both Queens and Bronx express bus riders, in addition to us in Riverdale. Furthermore, the runs are relatively short at about an hour or so currently and all three routes have good usage and have seen increases in ridership, with the exclusion of the BxM1 which saw a small decrease. So your proposal would have these buses spending more time in service in hopes of picking up a few passengers, which could make them more delayed and hurt ridership..."

 

The buses are going down there anyway. What's the difference if they're spending time in service or not? We already said that we could just have it apply to the buses that are deadheading anyway.