How Transit Riders Continually Get Screwed!

[BrooklynBus]

http://www.sheepsheadbites.com/2014/02/how-transit-riders-continually-get-screwed/

[TeeLow]

My two cents. People who hold public office are at most fair weather friends who bend in the direction of the prevailing wind; ie, politicians only concern is getting reelected and are beholden mainly to those who can help them do so. These bloodsuckers learned generations ago that most citizens are sheep, meaning they are easily herded by using the tools of their trade: misinformation. false advertising, distraction, allying themselves with the elite power brokers, pitting one group against another, and when all else fails, lying through their smiling pearly whites right to your face. It's a hard truth to accept. We perceive ourselves as the most savvy, knowledgeable and educated people on the planet. No one can pull the wool over our eyes. Guess what? Wake up and smell the corruption.

 

Politicians know that they are rarely held accountable. Only the most egregious acts might bring them down. They give lip service to their constituents and only seem concerned for our situation when it's time to get reelected.

 

Although I speak in generalities (not all politicians are heartless scumbags) the points I've listed above are tried and true methods dating back long before the creation of this country. Democracy can be a wonderful thing but only if the people who practice it are willing to stand up for it, battling tooth and nail to make sure our elected officials do our bidding. If we abrogate our responsibilities as citizens, they who've been given the authority to do our bidding will inevitably become immune to our concerns, which has happened already and is ongoing. A politician is like a dog who's been let off the leash; it will roam.

 

They're doing what comes naturally. Time to rein them in.

 

The above editorial comment was brought to you by...

[BrooklynBus]

Cuomo's lowering the Verrazano toll by 50 cents for SI residents to get re-elected is a perfect example of what you say.

[Vistausss]

Cuomo's lowering the Verrazano toll by 50 cents for SI residents to get re-elected is a perfect example of what you say.

 

That's ridiculous, both from an election POV as well as a city budget POV. 50 cents per commute less is something you gonna feel given the amount of people using the VZN...

[qjtransitmaster]

Just look at the disaster called the ESA & 2nd ave subway. With that money we would already have the triboro RX running now and money left over.

[BrooklynBus]

That's ridiculous, both from an election POV as well as a city budget POV. 50 cents per commute less is something you gonna feel given the amount of people using the VZN...

Staten Islanders will pay $5 to cross both ways, while Brooklyn riders will pay $10.75 with EZ Pass and $15 without it for the same trip. The previous Staten Island discount was $5.50 if you were a commuter defined as three trips per month. Now to receive the new discount you don't even have to make 3 trips per month. It will be available to all Staten Island residents. I'm all for commuter discounts (but not over 50%) but it should be or everyone and a commuter shoud mean someone who makes frequent trips. There is no transportation logic for what Cuomo has done. It will mean less money for the MTA for mass transit projects and helps a selected few at the expense of everyone else.

Just look at the disaster called the ESA & 2nd ave subway. With that money we would already have the triboro RX running now and money left over.

The Triboro RX and much much more.

[bobtehpanda]

Just look at the disaster called the ESA & 2nd ave subway. With that money we would already have the triboro RX running now and money left over.

 

Both are still very useful projects on their own merit, and subway expansion without added core capacity would be absolutely silly. In a perfect world, we would be able to do everything, but the good is not the enemy of the perfect.

 

As I understood it, the PATH terminal was built mostly using very tightly controlled 9-11 reconstruction money. This is basically what they came up with since the Pataki Administration wasn't able to sell a Lower Manhattan-JFK link as "reconstruction" to the feds (and it wasn't allowed for anything outside of Lower Manhattan).

 

The NJT transfer to Newark is not "convenient" in any sense of the word, since most New Jersey Transit trains do not stop at the airport station. Most of the cost is probably due to the fact that the right-of-way is not wide enough, and the fact that the NEC cannot be disrupted during construction (although the extension should involve a intermediate stop).

 

Finally, the smartphone apps utilizing BusTime sometimes show the physical location of the bus as well (as well with a standard "you are here" icon). This is far more useful than some arbitrary time estimate that, this being New York, will probably be more often wrong than right.

[CenSin]

My two cents. People who hold public office are at most fair weather friends who bend in the direction of the prevailing wind; ie, politicians only concern is getting reelected and are beholden mainly to those who can help them do so. These bloodsuckers learned generations ago that most citizens are sheep, meaning they are easily herded by using the tools of their trade: misinformation. false advertising, distraction, allying themselves with the elite power brokers, pitting one group against another, and when all else fails, lying through their smiling pearly whites right to your face. It's a hard truth to accept. We perceive ourselves as the most savvy, knowledgeable and educated people on the planet. No one can pull the wool over our eyes. Guess what? Wake up and smell the corruption.

[qjtransitmaster]

Staten Islanders will pay $5 to cross both ways, while Brooklyn riders will pay $10.75 with EZ Pass and $15 without it for the same trip. The previous Staten Island discount was $5.50 if you were a commuter defined as three trips per month. Now to receive the new discount you don't even have to make 3 trips per month. It will be available to all Staten Island residents. I'm all for commuter discounts (but not over 50%) but it should be or everyone and a commuter shoud mean someone who makes frequent trips. There is no transportation logic for what Cuomo has done. It will mean less money for the MTA for mass transit projects and helps a selected few at the expense of everyone else.

 

The Triboro RX and much much more.

The bus is still $2.50 if bus service between SI & Brooklyn wasn't so limited to just bay ridge I am sure more will use transit. The problem is looking at current buses alone tell you only so much.

[peacemak3r]

The bus is still $2.50 if bus service between SI & Brooklyn wasn't so limited to just bay ridge I am sure more will use transit. The problem is looking at current buses alone tell you only so much.

 

I wouldn't be too sure on that. If there were ever a bus from my neighborhood to where I want to go in Staten, it'll probably take 4x as long as me driving there instead, despite the tremendous toll getting into Staten.

[Vistausss]

I wouldn't be too sure on that. If there were ever a bus from my neighborhood to where I want to go in Staten, it'll probably take 4x as long as me driving there instead, despite the tremendous toll getting into Staten.

 

Depends on where you live and where you need to go on Staten (and how much money you have lol).

[qjtransitmaster]

I wouldn't be too sure on that. If there were ever a bus from my neighborhood to where I want to go in Staten, it'll probably take 4x as long as me driving there instead, despite the tremendous toll getting into Staten.

Really not if it's express to bay parkway or CI MTA has vehicles that can handle the 10"6 ft clearance. Tell me where in SI you go I can challenge you.

[bobtehpanda]

Really not if it's express to bay parkway or CI MTA has vehicles that can handle the 10"6 ft clearance. Tell me where in SI you go I can challenge you.

 

You know, the Belt goes around Brooklyn, not through it, so it's not that useful as a transit corridor...

 

Even express buses into Manhattan are slower than an equivalent car trip. Express buses are never going to be time-competitive with cars.

[traingoat]

Look everything was set up years ago under Moses and the road system in Staten Island stopped by lawsuit, and the roadwork in Queens and Brooklyn never fully completed.  I remember when Throggs Neck and the Narrows bridge were built as I watched them go up.  The City and the railroads never built the tunnels to tie in Staten Island  to the rest of the place and result is the present hodge podge which you have.  The Narrows bridge was built to divert traffic from other Hudson river crossings not to include the Islanders into the City.  That fact was an afterthought.  No bus via bridge can match a car only via boat .

[BrooklynBus]

The NJT transfer to Newark is not "convenient" in any sense of the word, since most New Jersey Transit trains do not stop at the airport station.

What are you talking about? I used it three times and found it very convenient. It is just an up and down transfer via escalator to AirTrain. Each time the first NJT train that came stopped at the airport and the wait was no longer than 15 minutes. The only I had a problem was on a Sunday morning when I just missed a train and had to wait 30 minutes.

 

There is a short walk from PATH to NJT and it would help if one sign was installed telling you where NJT was. A sign saying Trains West doesn't cut it. In the other direction, it is an across the platform transfer. Since you still would have to transfer to AirTrain, this connection makes very little improvement and is not worth the cost. Does it even save any time other than waiting for one less train?

[bobtehpanda]

What are you talking about? I used it three times and found it very convenient. It is just an up and down transfer via escalator to AirTrain. Each time the first NJT train that came stopped at the airport and the wait was no longer than 15 minutes. The only I had a problem was on a Sunday morning when I just missed a train and had to wait 30 minutes.

 

There is a short walk from PATH to NJT and it would help if one sign was installed telling you where NJT was. A sign saying Trains West doesn't cut it. In the other direction, it is an across the platform transfer. Since you still would have to transfer to AirTrain, this connection makes very little improvement and is not worth the cost. Does it even save any time other than waiting for one less train?

 

The problem is the train schedule is very erratic (anywhere from 10 minutes to 45 minutes in between trains), and it's fairly pricey. An adult one-way is $12.50.

Of course, that doesn't mean it's a $1.5B problem; you'd think that for that kind of money, the PA would be at least able to add one or two stations in the Newark Ironbound district.

[BrooklynBus]

You don't build a new line if the only problem is that you need a few more trains.

[GreatOne2k]

You don't build a new line if the only problem is that you need a few more trains.

The fare is another problem, unless you want more 62 buses to run, oh wait they already had to increase the amount of 62 buses before. Also PATH is 24 hours while NJT isn't.

[bobtehpanda]

You don't build a new line if the only problem is that you need a few more trains.

 

Given that NJT is projected to hit its capacity very soon, if it hasn't already (the entire justification for the former ARC project), forcing airport passengers onto overcrowded trains sounds like a bad idea. Removing airport traffic from the North River tubes is not a bad idea in and of itself.

[BrooklynBus]

The fare is another problem, unless you want more 62 buses to run, oh wait they already had to increase the amount of 62 buses before. Also PATH is 24 hours while NJT isn't.

Given that NJT is projected to hit its capacity very soon, if it hasn't already (the entire justification for the former ARC project), forcing airport passengers onto overcrowded trains sounds like a bad idea. Removing airport traffic from the North River tubes is not a bad idea in and of itself.

I don't see anyone extending transit lines or using abandoned right of ways in NYC in order to reduce the numbers of buses. Not a good reason for a transit extension.

 

Building a new line in order to reduce the transit fare is also a very flimsy excuse for a new line. NJT could always lower the fare or charge no fare for that one stop between Newark Penn station and the Airport.

[bobtehpanda]

I don't see anyone extending transit lines or using abandoned right of ways in NYC in order to reduce the numbers of buses. Not a good reason for a transit extension.

 

Building a new line in order to reduce the transit fare is also a very flimsy excuse for a new line. NJT could always lower the fare or charge no fare for that one stop between Newark Penn station and the Airport.

 

I mean, it's not as if the Port Authority gives money to the MTA or has the legal power to construct anything in the city. Keep in mind that PANYNJ is entirely self-financed, so it's not as if New York tax dollars are actually heading to this thing.

 

With Cuomo not giving a shit about transportation in general, Christie has had carte blanche to use PANYNJ as a New Jersey infrastructure fund; it's paying for the Pulsaki Skyway rehab as well. The general remit of PANYNJ needs to be reduced to its original purpose; it should sell the WTC, PATH, and Stewart Airport, but the way things are going it looks like PANYNJ will soon be operating Atlantic City's airport as well.

 

Also, just because it's not happening IMBY doesn't mean it's not a valid reason to actually build something. We actually are decongesting trains in the city; Second Avenue will decongest the Lex, and ESA will decongest Penn Station.

[BrooklynBus]

I mean, it's not as if the Port Authority gives money to the MTA or has the legal power to construct anything in the city. Keep in mind that PANYNJ is entirely self-financed, so it's not as if New York tax dollars are actually heading to this thing.

With Cuomo not giving a shit about transportation in general, Christie has had carte blanche to use PANYNJ as a New Jersey infrastructure fund; it's paying for the Pulsaki Skyway rehab as well. The general remit of PANYNJ needs to be reduced to its original purpose; it should sell the WTC, PATH, and Stewart Airport, but the way things are going it looks like PANYNJ will soon be operating Atlantic City's airport as well.

 

Also, just because it's not happening IMBY doesn't mean it's not a valid reason to actually build something. We actually are decongesting trains in the city; Second Avenue will decongest the Lex, and ESA will decongest Penn Station.

I sort of agree with most everything you say.

 

I never meant to imply that the PA could give money to the MTA. But none of what you say takes away from the fact that there are no valid reasons for the extension. I'm sure the Port Authority could find better ways of spending that money. But since they are spending an unnecessary $4 Billion for the WTC terminal, why shouldn't tey just waste another $1.5 Billion on this too? I remember back when he Port Authority was looked upon as a model of efficiency with many saying he MTA shoud follow its model. Not so anymore. Now they are a model of inefficiency and waste.

[qjtransitmaster]

I sort of agree with most everything you say.

 

I never meant to imply that the PA could give money to the MTA. But none of what you say takes away from the fact that there are no valid reasons for the extension. I'm sure the Port Authority could find better ways of spending that money. But since they are spending an unnecessary $4 Billion for the WTC terminal, why shouldn't tey just waste another $1.5 Billion on this too? I remember back when he Port Authority was looked upon as a model of efficiency with many saying he MTA shoud follow its model. Not so anymore. Now they are a model of inefficiency and waste.

You know what would be a hilarious middle finger to Port Authority if NJT dropped the fare for going between Hoboken Newark and the airport and had Amtrak get in on it to provide the 6 or more TPH to the airport it would utterly embarrass the port Authority for the lulz.

[qjtransitmaster]

You know, the Belt goes around Brooklyn, not through it, so it's not that useful as a transit corridor...

 

Even express buses into Manhattan are slower than an equivalent car trip. Express buses are never going to be time-competitive with cars.

I was thinking about that a bit. But apparently you haven't been on the x17 or bxm7 cause those buses haul ass and with BQE traffic and the HOV it's faster than driving try again. look at the cars on 495 NJ in the morning and look at the buses it's no comparison it's hilarious actually. Belt goes near CI & sheepshead bay.

[qjtransitmaster]

The fare is another problem, unless you want more 62 buses to run, oh wait they already had to increase the amount of 62 buses before. Also PATH is 24 hours while NJT isn't.

You are forgetting the go28 to the airport. Mod merge these posts