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'Super Express' bus to provide new route for South Shore commuters heading to Manhattan


BM5 via Woodhaven

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With the recent announcement of the new X21 express bus route for the South Shore of Staten Island, I can't believe on why they want to terminate the X21 at East 42 St and 1 Av instead of traveling up to East 57 St and 3 Av.

 

By terminating the X21 at East 42 St and 1 St, it won't attact riders at all and the route will fail, by terminating at East 57 St and 3 Av via Madison Av, Lexington Av and East 57 St, it will:

 

1)Increase ridership.

2)Give X5 riders along Richmond Av who want to get to Midtown desination north of East 42 St a faster ride via New Jersey and the Linclon Tunnel.

3)Reduce overcrowding on both the X5 and X17J.

4)Give X5 riders more serats available north of Richmond Av,

5)Give South Shore riders who board and Park at the West Shore Expwy and Arthur Kill Rd another NYCT express bus route.

6)Attact new customers.

 

What do you think of this, please post.

 

Though I'm unfamiliar with the x5, I am very familiar with the x17J and the south shore express routes. here are some of my points to address the route, which I think will be used well:

 

The Arthur Kill/Veteran's Road stop is a major stop with many passengers disembarking for private passenger vehicles/pickups. It is a defacto park and ride. The riders along the 42nd Street corridor going to that first stop could alone make the stop a formidable ridership makeup with five runs. It will help alleviate some of the loads on the x22/x22a and possibly the x23/x24.

 

Secondly, the Aspen Knolls development at Arthur Kill Road past Woodrow Road will attract a good ridership amount. This could take some load off the x23. The one or two passengers that take the x17J from this stop could be serviced should they avoid Academy for whatever reason.

 

The x17J from the first stop at Huguenot Ave/Woodrow Road to Eltingville Transit Center runs nearly empty as it is mostly duplicated by the x23/x24 Academy routes. I take the x23 and see essentially no passengers at Woodrow/Arthur Kill Roads between 6-8pm and in the 5a-6:30a hour. There would neglible effect on the x17J in my opinion. I further could envision the x17j route will no longer service the stretch between Huguenot/Woodrow and Eltingville Transit Center.

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With the recent announcement of the new X21 express bus route for the South Shore of Staten Island, I can't believe on why they want to terminate the X21 at East 42 St and 1 Av instead of traveling up to East 57 St and 3 Av.

 

By terminating the X21 at East 42 St and 1 St, it won't attact riders at all and the route will fail, by terminating at East 57 St and 3 Av via Madison Av, Lexington Av and East 57 St, it will:

 

1)Increase ridership.

2)Give X5 riders along Richmond Av who want to get to Midtown desination north of East 42 St a faster ride via New Jersey and the Linclon Tunnel.

3)Reduce overcrowding on both the X5 and X17J.

4)Give X5 riders more serats available north of Richmond Av,

5)Give South Shore riders who board and Park at the West Shore Expwy and Arthur Kill Rd another NYCT express bus route.

6)Attact new customers.

 

What do you think of this, please post.

 

 

 

Though I'm unfamiliar with the x5, I am very familiar with the x17J and the south shore express routes. here are some of my points to address the route, which I think will be used well:

 

The Arthur Kill/Veteran's Road stop is a major stop with many passengers disembarking for private passenger vehicles/pickups. It is a defacto park and ride. The riders along the 42nd Street corridor going to that first stop could alone make the stop a formidable ridership makeup with five runs. It will help alleviate some of the loads on the x22/x22a and possibly the x23/x24.

 

Secondly, the Aspen Knolls development at Arthur Kill Road past Woodrow Road will attract a good ridership amount. This could take some load off the x23. The one or two passengers that take the x17J from this stop could be serviced should they avoid Academy for whatever reason.

 

The x17J from the first stop at Huguenot Ave/Woodrow Road to Eltingville Transit Center runs nearly empty as it is mostly duplicated by the x23/x24 Academy routes. I take the x23 and see essentially no passengers at Woodrow/Arthur Kill Roads between 6-8pm and in the 5a-6:30a hour. There would neglible effect on the x17J in my opinion. I further could envision the x17j route will no longer service the stretch between Huguenot/Woodrow and Eltingville Transit Center.

The X17J may be better off truncating at ETC... I ride it occasionally, and I've never seen more than 4 riders if that many heading for Arden Heights.
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The X17J may be better off truncating at ETC... I ride it occasionally, and I've never seen more than 4 riders if that many heading for Arden Heights.

Now that I think of it, neither have I.... Depends what trip you take, I guess.....

 

However, I have rode it out of Arden Heights, and it garners way more than 4 riders heading towards manhattan..... So I wouldn't cut it back to ETC.... I mean, you don't want only 17C trips running past ETC...

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  • 1 month later...

North Shore residents came to the public hearing on May 14 in full force, declaring that they hate the proposed X21. These residents claimed, to paraphrase, that if South Shore residents could have their cake an eat it too, so should the North Shore.

 

What North Shore residents really want is more non-express service options, including the reactivation of the SIR North Shore Line.  And I agree, as that I have read MTA's North Shore Alternatives Analysis.

 

But discussing this is for a different topic in this forum.

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North Shore residents came to the public hearing on May 14 in full force, declaring that they hate the proposed X21.

These residents claimed, to paraphrase, that if South Shore residents could have their cake an eat it too, so should the North Shore....

Not surprising, as it doesn't do all that much for them.....

 

This rift between north shore patrons & south shore patrons has gotten quite amusing to me, to say the least.....

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Not surprising, as it doesn't do all that much for them.....

 

This rift between north shore patrons & south shore patrons has gotten quite amusing to me, to say the least.....

One way to shut em up is simply add full-time service to the x30&14 and then they will get real quiet.

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One way to shut em up is simply add full-time service to the x30&14 and then they will get real quiet.

 

That's also not going to help really...what they really want back is x18 and a SUP EXP of their own.

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That's also not going to help really...what they really want back is x18 and a SUP EXP of their own.

The X18? Really? Wasn't that route eliminated along with some other north shore routes because of low ridership?
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That's also not going to help really...what they really want back is x18 and a SUP EXP of their own.

 

X14&30 are basically super expresses and X18 wasn't much faster than the ferry and various LTD stop buses All over the Northeastern part of the island. However there may be a way to restore the X18 though some resources can be shifted from other SI routes (peak only)

The X18? Really? Wasn't that route eliminated along with some other north shore routes because of low ridership?

Yes the other one was X20 I think. And the others were X16&13 the X16 was basically a downtown x30. X16&20 however were duplicative of other more frequent buses that served similar areas in Manhattan. X18 was extremely duplicitous more so than the X13 and 16 one of which was merged with X14.

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The X18? Really? Wasn't that route eliminated along with some other north shore routes because of low ridership?

 

Out of all the Downtown routes that got cut in the North Shore, the x13 and x18 routes carried the most collectively. The x20 carried the least. Riders have been pushing for an x18 return, same for the ATU.

 

X14&30 are basically super expresses and X18 wasn't much faster than the ferry and various LTD stop buses All over the Northeastern part of the island. However there may be a way to restore the X18 though some resources can be shifted from other SI routes (peak only)

\

 

They're not even close to being Super Expresses. They both make all stops in both boroughs. Super Expresses only make a handful of stops in the opposite borough(in this case, Staten Island) and the x18 was a much better alternative to the ferry and the LTD buses to a certain degree.

 

------------------

 

An article to back up my claim about the x18 push. And this has been going on for months.

 

http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2014/05/mta_has_the_money_to_pay_for_x.html

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North Shore residents came to the public hearing on May 14 in full force, declaring that they hate the proposed X21. These residents claimed, to paraphrase, that if South Shore residents could have their cake an eat it too, so should the North Shore.

 

What North Shore residents really want is more non-express service options, including the reactivation of the SIR North Shore Line.  And I agree, as that I have read MTA's North Shore Alternatives Analysis.

 

But discussing this is for a different topic in this forum.

 

I presented an alternative plan which takes five X17Js and runs them via Arthur Kill Road to make the trip faster (X17K). In place of those X17Ks on Richmond Avenue, the X17H would have five trips that operate to and from 42 Street/1 Avenue.

 

 

We 5/14/2014 comments on the X21 plan

By Joel Azumah, TransportAzumah, 347-927-0750

 

As proposed, the X21 plan by the MTA runs a very high risk of not being successful due to a limited catchment area. There are ways to provide faster service to the South Shore of Staten Island that would be able to generate a higher level of ridership. It is extremely important that each new investment have a large “bang for the buck” factor so that more investments can be made in the future.

 

An X17 derivative (X17K) would operate between Arden Heights and 57 Street/3 Avenue. Since the X17K would not serve Richmond Avenue, a new route number (such as X21) would be appropriate. Five X17J trips would be converted to X17K trips, operating via the X19 from Huguenot/Woodrow to the West Shore Expressway and via the X22 from the West Shore Expressway to 57 Street/3 Avenue. In the afternoon, the X17K would operate via the X17J from 57 Street/3 Avenue to 42 Street/8 Avenue, the X22 from 42 Street/8 Avenue to the West Shore Expressway, and the X19 from the West Shore Expressway to Arden Heights.

 

X17K AM Schedule

Huguenot Avenue – Woodrow Road

628a

642a

654a

709a

733a

Arden Avenue – Arthur Kill Road

638a

652a

704a

721a

745a

Veterans Road East – Arthur Kill Road

644a

658a

710a

727a

751a

34 Street – 9 Avenue

720a

736a

748a

805a

829a

57 Street – 3 Avenue

737a

753a

804a

827a

851a

 

X17K PM Schedule

57 Street – 3 Avenue

420p

438p

506p

535p

605p

42 Street – 8 Avenue

443p

501p

534p

603p

632p

West Service Road – Arthur Kill Road

526p

547p

620p

649p

714p

Arden Avenue – Arthur Kill Road

531p

552p

625p

654p

719p

Huguenot Avenue – Woodrow Road

541p

602p

635p

704p

729p

 

Another X17 derivative (X17H) would operate from Richmond Avenue/Hylan Boulevard to 42 Street/1 Avenue. The service would operate via the X1 from Richmond/Hylan to the Eltingville Transit Center, via the X17J from Eltingville Transit Center to the New Jersey Turnpike, via the X30 from the New Jersey Turnpike to Madison Avenue, and via the M42 from Madison Avenue to 1 Avenue. In the afternoon, the X17H would operate via the M42 from 1 Avenue to 5 Avenue, via the X17J from 5 Avenue to the Eltingville Transit Center, and via the X1 from the Eltingville Transit Center to Richmond Avenue/Hylan Boulevard.

 

X17H AM Schedule

Richmond Avenue – Hylan Boulevard

636a

650a

701a

718a

742a

Eltingville Transit Center

645a

659a

712a

729a

753a

Staten Island Mall

650a

704a

718a

735a

759a

Richmond Avenue – Christopher Lane

707a

723a

737a

754a

818a

42 Street – 1 Avenue

749a

807a

824a

841a

915a

 

X17H PM Schedule

42 Street – 1 Avenue

428p

446p

519p

548p

617p

42 Street – 8 Avenue

443p

501p

534p

603p

632p

Lamberts Lane – Richmond Avenue

519p

539p

612p

637p

706p

Staten Island Mall

535p

555p

628p

653p

721p

Richmond Avenue – Hylan Boulevard

550p

610p

643p

708p

736p

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Not surprising, as it doesn't do all that much for them.....

 

This rift between north shore patrons & south shore patrons has gotten quite amusing to me, to say the least.....

It's all political and I don't blame them.  This has become a pissing contest because it's about politics and money, and the North Shore communities that had their express buses yanked are in most cases as affluent or more affluent than communities on the South Shore.   Areas of Westerleigh and West Brighton for example have household income levels over 100k and can afford the express bus and have similar lengthy commutes, so why should they be relegated to schlepping to the unreliable local buses and the ferry or having to drive to the South Shore express buses?  What's going on here is the (MTA) is trying to cater to the South Shore as if their commutes are so long but the commutes on the North Shore aren't, and since the politicians on the South Shore are more active and have more pull and money backing them, they're producing while the folks on the North Shore get nothing, and I'm glad that North Shore residents are starting to speak up.  It's almost as if the (MTA) is in bed with the South Shore politicians.  The majority of the Senators that have represented Staten Island come from the South Shore, but none of them have been as pathetic as Micheal Grimm.  His pandering to the South Shore residents (he resides the affluent New Springville) has been appalling to say the least.  He's made it very clear that his efforts to improve express bus service on Staten Island are specifically for the South Shore.  Jim Oddo, who is now the Borough President certainly did his part to improve express bus service as well in his area, but even he has hinted at what is going on, which is that South Shore and Mid Island politicians are are actively getting the express bus service that their communities need, but Grimm represents all of Staten Island, so his focus on express bus service shouldn't be relegated to only the South Shore (the X17 and X22 in particular).

 

 

Out of all the Downtown routes that got cut in the North Shore, the x13 and x18 routes carried the most collectively. The x20 carried the least. Riders have been pushing for an x18 return, same for the ATU.

 

 

They're not even close to being Super Expresses. They both make all stops in both boroughs. Super Expresses only make a handful of stops in the opposite borough(in this case, Staten Island) and the x18 was a much better alternative to the ferry and the LTD buses to a certain degree.

 

------------------

 

An article to back up my claim about the x18 push. And this has been going on for months.

 

http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2014/05/mta_has_the_money_to_pay_for_x.html

Exactly...

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I'm not as learned on the SI express bus scene, but if I may add, the X17 and the hundreds of different branches is a massive shitshow. Can someone explain to me why this is and who thought that a route that zig-zags all over Staten Island before going into Manhattan is a thing that makes sense?

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Evolution. The X17 has evolved to meet the service needs on the corridor. It isn't as complicated as one thinks. There are three rush hour patterns (A/C/J) and two off-peak patterns (C, C Tottenville). Lower Manhattan is simply A. Midtown in a hurry is J. Otherwise, you are on a C. That is straightforward to me.

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I'm not as learned on the SI express bus scene, but if I may add, the X17 and the hundreds of different branches is a massive shitshow. Can someone explain to me why this is and who thought that a route that zig-zags all over Staten Island before going into Manhattan is a thing that makes sense?

A large part of it, I have to believe, is the existence of the x23/24... If the MTA operated those routes, I highly doubt there would be any x17 service east of Annadale (rd).....

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A large part of it, I have to believe, is the existence of the x23/24... If the MTA operated those routes, I highly doubt there would be any x17 service east of Annadale (rd).....

I disagree. The X23/X24 are long routes that the MTA would restructure in tandem with the X17. Since the X17 is a 7 day per week bus, I think the X23 and X24 would be reworked around it.

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I'm not as learned on the SI express bus scene, but if I may add, the X17 and the hundreds of different branches is a massive shitshow. Can someone explain to me why this is and who thought that a route that zig-zags all over Staten Island before going into Manhattan is a thing that makes sense?

The branches make sense. In order to understand them, you would you probably need to ride them and/or see the areas that they run through to understand.  For what it's worth, just about everybody uses the X17 on Staten Island.  Plenty of people drive to it because it makes stops near the SIE.  Even I used to take car service to it at times on weekdays and weekends.  The layout on Staten Island pretty much makes that possible.  You can be anywhere on the island and unless there is terrible traffic, you can get to where you need to go in 15 minutes or so, even from North to South if you know what roads to take.  I used to get on at Richmond Avenue, and from my residence it was roughly a 15 minute car ride.

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I disagree. The X23/X24 are long routes that the MTA would restructure in tandem with the X17. Since the X17 is a 7 day per week bus, I think the X23 and X24 would be reworked around it.

This part of it, I don't agree with at all.... I think they would retain the x23/24 as two separate routes; separate of the x17 (which would still remain a 7 day a week bus, just with less service that's on it now)....

 

x17 would run no further than annadale to the south/west (hell, I think most trips would start at ETC itself, knowing this agency), x23 would begin at ETC & work its way serving the south shore (via some restructured routing), x24 north/east of richmond I think the MTA would get rid of, & have buses starting over on richmond/hylan, then working its way to arden av, etc (also via some restructured routing)....

 

I am in no way saying the current x23/24 routing would be retained....

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This part of it, I don't agree with at all.... I think they would retain the x23/24 as two separate routes; separate of the x17 (which would still remain a 7 day a week bus, just with less service that's on it now)....

 

x17 would run no further than annadale to the south/west (hell, I think most trips would start at ETC itself, knowing this agency), x23 would begin at ETC & work its way serving the south shore (via some restructured routing), x24 north/east of richmond I think the MTA would get rid of, & have buses starting over on richmond/hylan, then working its way to arden av, etc (also via some restructured routing)....

 

I am in no way saying the current x23/24 routing would be retained....

 

You just reminded me of something. There were supposed to be a small number of 17Js startng at ETC during the AM, but I think that fell through.

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Out of all the Downtown routes that got cut in the North Shore, the x13 and x18 routes carried the most collectively. The x20 carried the least. Riders have been pushing for an x18 return, same for the ATU.

 

 

They're not even close to being Super Expresses. They both make all stops in both boroughs. Super Expresses only make a handful of stops in the opposite borough(in this case, Staten Island) and the x18 was a much better alternative to the ferry and the LTD buses to a certain degree.

 

------------------

 

An article to back up my claim about the x18 push. And this has been going on for months.

 

http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2014/05/mta_has_the_money_to_pay_for_x.html

X13 I understand the 18 not so much how will a super express even live up to the term for an area that is a 10 to 5 min ride from the ferry on a Local bus not even counting the LTDS. The ferry is 30 to 20 minutes and the local bus literally waiting there is another 5 to 10 min ride depending on the area you are going to. The X13 should return not even disputing that though.

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