Via Garibaldi 8 Posted May 21, 2014 Share #51 Posted May 21, 2014 X13 I understand the 18 not so much how will a super express even live up to the term for an area that is a 10 to 5 min ride from the ferry on a Local bus not even counting the LTDS. The ferry is 30 to 20 minutes and the local bus literally waiting there is another 5 to 10 min ride depending on the area you are going to. The X13 should return not even disputing that though. You don't understand the X18 because you don't live on Staten Island. The areas served by the X18 allowed for people to get into Manhattan quickly, otherwise they faced a long bus ride to the ferry just to get Downtown and with local bus service being so poor on Staten Island, there were times when it took me well over 30 minutes to get to the ferry even with the S98 due to delayed and or MIA buses. Then you factor in the fact that the buses are supposed to be timed with the ferry, and your commute just to get into Manhattan could be well over an hour versus a 20 - 30 minute commute on the X18. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted May 21, 2014 Share #52 Posted May 21, 2014 You don't understand the X18 because you don't live on Staten Island. The areas served by the X18 allowed for people to get into Manhattan quickly, otherwise they faced a long bus ride to the ferry just to get Downtown and with local bus service being so poor on Staten Island, there were times when it took me well over 30 minutes to get to the ferry even with the S98 due to delayed and or MIA buses. Then you factor in the fact that the buses are supposed to be timed with the ferry, and your commute just to get into Manhattan could be well over an hour versus a 20 - 30 minute commute on the X18. Funny x18 does NOT serve forest avenue! S98 doesn't even share a single stop with X18 that makes your point useless. The local buses that do copy x18 are S52,78,51&74 try again. However what would happen if those buses were improved? However other lines can cover parts of the x18 easily MTA is simply lazy. Probably a restored and restructured x13 can cover x18 partially with X3 covering another part. And X14 returning to midtown express. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted May 21, 2014 Share #53 Posted May 21, 2014 Out of all the Downtown routes that got cut in the North Shore, the x13 and x18 routes carried the most collectively. The x20 carried the least. Riders have been pushing for an x18 return, same for the ATU. They're not even close to being Super Expresses. They both make all stops in both boroughs. Super Expresses only make a handful of stops in the opposite borough(in this case, Staten Island) and the x18 was a much better alternative to the ferry and the LTD buses to a certain degree. ------------------ An article to back up my claim about the x18 push. And this has been going on for months. http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2014/05/mta_has_the_money_to_pay_for_x.html If you were to make a super express route there what stops in SI would you have it make? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted May 21, 2014 Share #54 Posted May 21, 2014 Funny x18 does NOT serve forest avenue! S98 doesn't even share a single stop with X18 that makes your point useless. The local buses that do copy x18 are S52,78,51&74 try again. However what would happen if those buses were improved? However other lines can cover parts of the x18 easily MTA is simply lazy. Do you read? I was using my situation as an example. The X18 did not run near me... The point was to show how poor local bus service is on Staten Island, and also to show how long it can take with the local bus to the ferry depending on your location, and for most folks that took the X18, it was much faster than the local bus to the ferry, even if local bus service was improved due to their location relative to the ferry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted May 21, 2014 Share #55 Posted May 21, 2014 Do you read? I was using my situation as an example. The X18 did not run near me... The point was to show how poor local bus service is on Staten Island, and also to show how long it can take with the local bus to the ferry depending on your location, and for most folks that took the X18, it was much faster than the local bus to the ferry, even if local bus service was improved due to their location relative to the ferry. Your late reread my edited post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted May 21, 2014 Share #56 Posted May 21, 2014 Your late reread my edited post. I read it and I still disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted May 21, 2014 Share #57 Posted May 21, 2014 I read it and I still disagree. So what do I look like I take you seriously? However you do have a point about some partsof the X18 being quicker. I do disagree how MTA handled it if they had to kill off the x18 they could have rerouted x3 to serve rosebank and X13 via parts of x18 in Staten island. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted May 21, 2014 Share #58 Posted May 21, 2014 So what do I look like I take you seriously? You should because your proposal (as usual) makes no sense, especially in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted May 21, 2014 Share #59 Posted May 21, 2014 You should because your proposal (as usual) makes no sense, especially in this case. I am curious how well did x13 carry vs x18? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted May 21, 2014 Share #60 Posted May 21, 2014 I am curious how well did x13 carry vs x18? http://web.mta.info/nyct/facts/ridership/ridership_bus_annual.htm The numbers are similar, however, they don't show how unreliable bus service on both lines became since both lines were out of Castleton. Ridership dropped on both lines because of this reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted May 21, 2014 Author Share #61 Posted May 21, 2014 You just reminded me of something. There were supposed to be a small number of 17Js startng at ETC during the AM, but I think that fell through. They have 50% of the buses originating at ETC from 5:30 AM to 7:45 AM though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted May 21, 2014 Share #62 Posted May 21, 2014 You just reminded me of something. There were supposed to be a small number of 17Js startng at ETC during the AM, but I think that fell through. They have 50% of the buses originating at ETC from 5:30 AM to 7:45 AM though. Right, I kinda forgot about that. What I meant was there were supposed to be a small amount between 8 and 9am Sent from my Motorola Moto G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted May 22, 2014 Share #63 Posted May 22, 2014 You just reminded me of something. There were supposed to be a small number of 17Js startng at ETC during the AM, but I think that fell through. That's exactly why I brought that up in my post to JAzumah's reply there.... But pertaining to your post here, they already (meaning, currently) have AM trips starting @ ETC.....Matter fact, I believe it's every other trip around the 6-7am slot IINM.... You don't understand the X18 because you don't live on Staten Island. The areas served by the X18 allowed for people to get into Manhattan quickly, otherwise they faced a long bus ride to the ferry just to get Downtown and with local bus service being so poor on Staten Island, there were times when it took me well over 30 minutes to get to the ferry even with the S98 due to delayed and or MIA buses. Then you factor in the fact that the buses are supposed to be timed with the ferry, and your commute just to get into Manhattan could be well over an hour versus a 20 - 30 minute commute on the X18. Lol... He's comparing a local bus ride to the ferry, to the ferry for manhattan.... to the x18... I started laughing @ that point..... His convenient ignoring of how long the waits for buses generally are in SI is gold, like buses arrive like clockwork (at w/e local stops along the way, never mind how untimely they are w/ the ferry)..... The proximity of where some local bus is, to where the old x18 ran is immaterial... If it's not trying to suggest folks take the RR, it's some other time-consuming indirect commute out of him.... Dare I bring this term back to the forefront, but he's an express bus hater.... And the irony is that he wants local buses on highways in this city.... smh.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted May 22, 2014 Share #64 Posted May 22, 2014 That's exactly why I brought that up in my post to JAzumah's reply there.... But pertaining to your post here, they already (meaning, currently) have AM trips starting @ ETC.....Matter fact, I believe it's every other trip around the 6-7am slot IINM.... Lol... He's comparing a local bus ride to the ferry, to the ferry for manhattan.... to the x18... I started laughing @ that point..... His convenient ignoring of how long the waits for buses generally are in SI is gold, like buses arrive like clockwork (at w/e local stops along the way, never mind how untimely they are w/ the ferry)..... The proximity of where some local bus is, to where the old x18 ran is immaterial... If it's not trying to suggest folks take the RR, it's some other time-consuming indirect commute out of him.... Dare I bring this term back to the forefront, but he's an express bus hater.... And the irony is that he wants local buses on highways in this city.... smh.... I made a mistake with that one however I wouldn't have suggested X18 get canned without an alternative or reform of some other routes nearby. http://web.mta.info/nyct/facts/ridership/ridership_bus_annual.htm The numbers are similar, however, they don't show how unreliable bus service on both lines became since both lines were out of Castleton. Ridership dropped on both lines because of this reason. Interesting I guess You're correct. Well I do think a reshaping can allow the X13 to return to make peak hour service more efficient and carry more people per bus. With offpeak service being the current x14 via lower Manhattan (offpeak only) if it is costeffective the loop strategy can be used on other lines to maximize all resources except the Bronx due to structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted May 22, 2014 Share #65 Posted May 22, 2014 That's exactly why I brought that up in my post to JAzumah's reply there.... But pertaining to your post here, they already (meaning, currently) have AM trips starting @ ETC.....Matter fact, I believe it's every other trip around the 6-7am slot IINM.... Lol... He's comparing a local bus ride to the ferry, to the ferry for manhattan.... to the x18... I started laughing @ that point..... His convenient ignoring of how long the waits for buses generally are in SI is gold, like buses arrive like clockwork (at w/e local stops along the way, never mind how untimely they are w/ the ferry)..... The proximity of where some local bus is, to where the old x18 ran is immaterial... If it's not trying to suggest folks take the RR, it's some other time-consuming indirect commute out of him.... Dare I bring this term back to the forefront, but he's an express bus hater.... And the irony is that he wants local buses on highways in this city.... smh.... I would like to think that he at least looks at a map before making these crazy suggestions, but I don't even think he does that. I made a mistake with that one however I wouldn't have suggested X18 get canned without an alternative or reform of some other routes nearby. Interesting I guess You're correct. Well I do think a reshaping can allow the X13 to return to make peak hour service more efficient and carry more people per bus. With offpeak service being the current x14 via lower Manhattan (offpeak only) if it is costeffective the loop strategy can be used on other lines to maximize all resources except the Bronx due to structure. The X13 and X16 just needed to be run on time with courteous, professional bus drivers that knew the routes, which was constantly an issue at Castleton Depot. The X13 and X16 were both problematic because they were unreliable, not because people didn't want to use them. The Forest Avenue corridor has plenty of upper middle class professionals that patronized the express buses because it saved them from taking the bus to the ferry and then the subway every morning and evening, which becomes old very quickly. The ran both lines poorly, assigned too many rookies to those lines that didn't know the routes, and often times those drivers missed stops and caused waits well over an hour for one bus as a result. For example, one X16 driver took the X13 routing by accident down Victory and we were all yelling like crazy that he was going the wrong way. Had we not said anything, he would've bypassed all of the stops along Forest before Clove Rd leaving numerous passengers with long walks home. It wasn't really the B/O's fault in some cases because they weren't trained adequately on the routes, but in other cases, the veterans seemed to have no idea of what the schedule was and came whenever they wanted and management at Castleton Depot allowed it to happen. If a guy came 10 - 15 minutes early and you called the depot to inquire about that bus, oh well, the guy came already and you're SOL... One guy on the X16 had the nerve to talk about how he was going to lose his job due to the service cuts and he came early every damn morning causing me to either miss him or have to catch an S53 to catch up to him at Victory and Clove. Really unbelievable. Both routes should return and perhaps they should be run out of Meredith Depot. Meredith received most of the old timers from Castleton who for the most part do their job and come on time and didn't mess around. The issue is overhauling management at some of the SI depots because too much nonsense goes on. For example, when it snowed in the old days, you would have to pray that your bus came because so many guys would call out sick that it wasn't even funny, and you'd have huge waits of over an hour when you could have say 3 or 4 express bus routes serving one stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted May 22, 2014 Share #66 Posted May 22, 2014 I would like to think that he at least looks at a map before making these crazy suggestions, but I don't even think he does that. The X13 and X16 just needed to be run on time with courteous, professional bus drivers that knew the routes, which was constantly an issue at Castleton Depot. The X13 and X16 were both problematic because they were unreliable, not because people didn't want to use them. The Forest Avenue corridor has plenty of upper middle class professionals that patronized the express buses because it saved them from taking the bus to the ferry and then the subway every morning and evening, which becomes old very quickly. The ran both lines poorly, assigned too many rookies to those lines that didn't know the routes, and often times those drivers missed stops and caused waits well over an hour for one bus as a result. For example, one X16 driver took the X13 routing by accident down Victory and we were all yelling like crazy that he was going the wrong way. Had we not said anything, he would've bypassed all of the stops along Forest before Clove Rd leaving numerous passengers with long walks home. It wasn't really the B/O's fault in some cases because they weren't trained adequately on the routes, but in other cases, the veterans seemed to have no idea of what the schedule was and came whenever they wanted and management at Castleton Depot allowed it to happen. If a guy came 10 - 15 minutes early and you called the depot to inquire about that bus, oh well, the guy came already and you're SOL... One guy on the X16 had the nerve to talk about how he was going to lose his job due to the service cuts and he came early every damn morning causing me to either miss him or have to catch an S53 to catch up to him at Victory and Clove. Really unbelievable. Both routes should return and perhaps they should be run out of Meredith Depot. Meredith received most of the old timers from Castleton who for the most part do their job and come on time and didn't mess around. The issue is overhauling management at some of the SI depots because too much nonsense goes on. For example, when it snowed in the old days, you would have to pray that your bus came because so many guys would call out sick that it wasn't even funny, and you'd have huge waits of over an hour when you could have say 3 or 4 express bus routes serving one stop. On second thought x18 could have been integrated into the X13& 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted May 22, 2014 Share #67 Posted May 22, 2014 On second thought x18 could have been integrated into the X13& 16 No, absolutely not. They barely got away with it when making the x14 as folks really didn't like the idea of the route from the get-go. They wouldn't get away with it with this, not by a long shot, especially since it serves a different group of riders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted May 22, 2014 Share #68 Posted May 22, 2014 No, absolutely not. They barely got away with it when making the x14 as folks really didn't like the idea of the route from the get-go. They wouldn't get away with it with this, not by a long shot, especially since it serves a different group of riders. Not only that but the route wouldn't make any sense from a logistical standpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted May 22, 2014 Share #69 Posted May 22, 2014 No, absolutely not. They barely got away with it when making the x14 as folks really didn't like the idea of the route from the get-go. They wouldn't get away with it with this, not by a long shot, especially since it serves a different group of riders. X13,16&18 serve downtown and X14 was for midtown I simply will not argue it's pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted May 22, 2014 Share #70 Posted May 22, 2014 X13,16&18 serve downtown and X14 was for midtown I simply will not argue it's pointless. You don't understand anything do you? The x14 was merged into one of the downtown variants after the cuts, people DID NOT like that at all, but they dealt with it. You won't argue because you don't know what you're talking about/don't know what's being discussed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted May 22, 2014 Share #71 Posted May 22, 2014 You don't understand anything do you? The x14 was merged into one of the downtown variants after the cuts, people DID NOT like that at all, but they dealt with it. You won't argue because you don't know what you're talking about/don't know what's being discussed. Very true... Many people working in Midtown switched to using the X2 for that reason in the mornings, including myself. Having to do that stupid loop Downtown wasted a good 30 minutes or more some days. At night it was less of an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted May 22, 2014 Share #72 Posted May 22, 2014 You don't understand anything do you? The x14 was merged into one of the downtown variants after the cuts, people DID NOT like that at all, but they dealt with it. You won't argue because you don't know what you're talking about/don't know what's being discussed. I meant it's original purpose was for midtown riders. Read carefully. I know how stupid that was lose the attitude I am not even disagreing with you there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted May 22, 2014 Share #73 Posted May 22, 2014 I meant it's original purpose was for midtown riders. Read carefully. I know how stupid that was lose the attitude I am not even disagreing with you there. Don't tell me to lose the attitude when you put on one for others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted May 23, 2014 Share #74 Posted May 23, 2014 Right, so when are we gonna get an X10J or whatever? It will happen sooner or later don't be surprised if they route the X42 via NJ to speed it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted May 23, 2014 Share #75 Posted May 23, 2014 It will happen sooner or later don't be surprised if they route the X42 via NJ to speed it up. Now why did you purposely quote a post from two months ago.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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