'Super Express' bus to provide new route for South Shore commuters heading to Manhattan

[JAzumah]

This part of it, I don't agree with at all.... I think they would retain the x23/24 as two separate routes; separate of the x17 (which would still remain a 7 day a week bus, just with less service that's on it now)....

 

x17 would run no further than annadale to the south/west (hell, I think most trips would start at ETC itself, knowing this agency), x23 would begin at ETC & work its way serving the south shore (via some restructured routing), x24 north/east of richmond I think the MTA would get rid of, & have buses starting over on richmond/hylan, then working its way to arden av, etc (also via some restructured routing)....

 

I am in no way saying the current x23/24 routing would be retained....

 

They would not become part of the X17, but the X17/X23/X24 routes would be coordinated to straighten out the X23 and X24. I could see the X24 starting at ETC and taking over most of the X17J Arden Heights loop in reverse during rush hour. An X21 type service could be rerouted to serve Richmond-Woodrow-Huguenot with five buses. You can put the X23 onto Huguenot Avenue to help out the X24.

[B35 via Church]

They would not become part of the X17, but the X17/X23/X24 routes would be coordinated to straighten out the X23 and X24.

 

I could see the X24 starting at ETC and taking over most of the X17J Arden Heights loop in reverse during rush hour.

An X21 type service could be rerouted to serve Richmond-Woodrow-Huguenot with five buses. You can put the X23 onto Huguenot Avenue to help out the X24.

I can't see the x17 being involved in any such coordination.... Have the MTA operate the x23/24, I don't doubt for a second that x17's would no longer run as deep in the south shore like it currently does; regardless if it's the 17c or the 17j..... The current folks that take 17j's past ETC I believe would be "directed" (i.e., forced) to taking restructured x23's/24's & the current folks taking 17c's past ETC would end up having to use ETC as a park & ride, or dare I say it, deal with the local to ETC to xfer to an express.....

 

I'm not so sure about x24's starting at ETC, but the rest of the post I generally concur with..... How either of us would implement service, and how this agency called the MTA would implement service, I see as being two very different things.... They're not about progression at all.....

[B35 via Church]

I meant it's original purpose was for midtown riders. Read carefully. I know how stupid that was lose the attitude I am not even disagreing with you there.

Your original point stated:

"Probably a restored and restructured x13 can cover x18 partially with X3 covering another part. And X14 returning to midtown express."

 

Your amended point stated:

"On second thought x18 could have been integrated into the X13& 16"

 

What CS is getting at, is the fact that (the old) x13 riders abhor this current x14 - which the x13 got integrated into... And here you are talking about having the x18 (instead of the x13) integrated, covering, whatever, into the x14.... The other two routes you want to bastardize by having them cover the old 18 (x3, x16) doesn't matter in this particular grand scheme of things.... All you're doing is prolonging the old 14 by using a different route; it's no different than what the MTA did with the current x14......

 

He has every right to exude that attitude - especially since you are continuing to make the same suggestion for the x18 in your "second thought", as in your original thought - simply using different wording [covering, integrated, respectively].....

 

The whole thing is just as stupid as arguing 2+3 "equals" 6, and having a second thought arguing 2+3 "adds up to" 6...

You refuse to listen what others are telling you about these routes.....

 

.....don't be surprised if they route the X42 via NJ to speed it up.

Lol.... Few points....

 

- The 42 is a "speed" version of the 12.... There is zero need for a "speed" version of the 42 ...

(Yes, I'm actually laughing at this foolishness; an express version of an express version of an express)..... smh lol....

(Even funnier, The irony is, it'd actually be a waste of time to have 42's run via NJ, via SIE, to get to Castleton Corners, and run the rest of the 42 from there)....

 

- The 30 already runs via NJ for the Forest av, etc. folks west of Richmond av..... Plenty ppl. coming off 30's that either walk towards, or xfer to the local to get to residential mariners harbor (up along south av).... So in essence, your implicated suggestion here already exists, for about 1/2 the 42's ridership (meaning, those that take it north & west of Westerleigh).....

 

- But of course, you just blurted this crap out about the 42 b/c you got owned there w/ that whole x18 part of the discussion..... Lol.

 

You don't understand anything do you? The x14 was merged into one of the downtown variants after the cuts, people DID NOT like that at all, but they dealt with it. You won't argue because you don't know what you're talking about/don't know what's being discussed.

Minor correction.... x13 was merged into the x14, not the other way around.....

("x14" still exists, "x13" is ghost.... lol)

 

Now why did you purposely quote a post from two months ago....

Gulity conscience....

 

Some people deliberately change the subject when they get that feeling.... I've long noticed he's one of those people.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Your original point stated:

"Probably a restored and restructured x13 can cover x18 partially with X3 covering another part. And X14 returning to midtown express."

 

Your amended point stated:

"On second thought x18 could have been integrated into the X13& 16"

 

What CS is getting at, is the fact that (the old) x13 riders abhor this current x14 - which the x13 got integrated into... And here you are talking about having the x18 (instead of the x13) integrated, covering, whatever, into the x14.... The other two routes you want to bastardize by having them cover the old 18 (x3, x16) doesn't matter in this particular grand scheme of things.... All you're doing is prolonging the old 14 by using a different route; it's no different than what the MTA did with the current x14......

 

He has every right to exude that attitude - especially since you are continuing to make the same suggestion for the x18 in your "second thought", as in your original thought - simply using different wording [covering, integrated, respectively].....

 

The whole thing is just as stupid as arguing 2+3 "equals" 6, and having a second thought arguing 2+3 "adds up to" 6...

You refuse to listen what others are telling you about these routes.....

 

Lol.... Few points....

 

- The 42 is a "speed" version of the 12.... There is zero need for a "speed" version of the 42 ...

(Yes, I'm actually laughing at this foolishness; an express version of an express version of an express)..... smh lol....

(Even funnier, The irony is, it'd actually be a waste of time to have 42's run via NJ, via SIE, to get to Castleton Corners, and run the rest of the 42 from there)....

 

- The 30 already runs via NJ for the Forest av, etc. folks west of Richmond av..... Plenty ppl. coming off 30's that either walk towards, or xfer to the local to get to residential mariners harbor (up along south av).... So in essence, your implicated suggestion here already exists, for about 1/2 the 42's ridership (meaning, those that take it north & west of Westerleigh).....

Agreed... No need to run the X42 via NJ... It runs via the SIE for a reason... The folks that really need "speed" in areas like Mariners Harbor use the X30 via NJ.  The X42 is generally used by folks in Castleton Corners and Westerleigh.  After the X30 stops running then those in Mariners Harbor will use it if they need service to Midtown.

 

As for people transferring from the X30, that's generally not the case.  Most people in that area will get off at the park and ride or will be picked up. There is a certain level of snobbery even in that area about using the local bus from the express bus which I find rather funny, but I've heard a few people mention that they are not using the local bus and will just be picked up instead.

[B35 via Church]

Agreed... No need to run the X42 via NJ... It runs via the SIE for a reason... The folks that really need "speed" in areas like Mariners Harbor use the X30 via NJ.  The X42 is generally used by folks in Castleton Corners and Westerleigh.  After the X30 stops running then those in Mariners Harbor will use it if they need service to Midtown.

 

As for people transferring from the X30, that's generally not the case.  Most people in that area will get off at the park and ride or will be picked up. There is a certain level of snobbery even in that area about using the local bus from the express bus which I find rather funny, but I've heard a few people mention that they are not using the local bus and will just be picked up instead.

I would say the x42's ridership is pretty equal b/w the east of richmond av folks & the north & west of richmond av folks (I'm only talking PM, don't know about AM).... Large in part b/c they don't want to put up w/ the 30 (which kills QJT's "speed" argument) or have to deal w/ the 12...

 

As for a park & ride around the 30, are you talking about the parking lot @ harbor plaza? You mean to tell me that's where all those people are walking to? Their cars (or for someone to pick them up)... News to me....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I would say the x42's ridership is pretty equal b/w the east of richmond av folks & the north & west of richmond av folks (I'm only talking PM, don't know about AM).... Large in part b/c they don't want to put up w/ the 30 (which kills QJT's "speed" argument) or have to deal w/ the 12...

 

As for a park & ride around the 30, are you talking about the parking lot @ harbor plaza? You mean to tell me that's where all those people are walking to? Their cars (or for someone to pick them up)... News to me....

Yes, that's a pretty good assessment with regards to the X42.  It's really a question of which comes first, since the X42 can be a mess at night. In the mornings though, most wait for the X30 over by Harbor Plaza and if it's the X30 and it's messed up, then they'll cross the street and wait for the X12, since the X42 stops running early.  At night though if the Lincoln Tunnel is a mess and you can still catch an X42, I would run and get that if I saw one, take that to Slosson and Victory and get car service from there or just walk home since the walk was only 20 minutes or so and is nice on a nice day out since it was downhill most of the way and the SI Zoo is nearby.

 

As for Harbor Plaza, yep... That's a big stop in the morning... They all park there or are picked up from there.  Most of them park in that first row since it's closest to the drop-off bus stop at night.  A lot of them live in the vicinity of Mariners Harbor or over in Graniteville, but that parking area is big enough for them to park their cars during the day and not be aggravated with being hit with tickets or whatever for not actually shopping there and hogging up parking spots from actual customers.  The other parking area is over by Richmond and Forest, which is another X30 stop that sees decent usage (probably the second or third biggest stop aside from the one by Harbor Plaza and the last one where the X17J also picks up by those condos).  Fewer people park there by Forest & Richmond though due to the lack of spaces and the distance from the express bus stop (pick up and drop-off).  Staten Islanders, especially express bus riders are extremely lazy and worried about appearances, so the idea of them transferring to a local bus and being seen is a big no no for the most part.  Everyone likes keeping up appearances, so what type of car you drive out there is really important.  It's funny thinking about it but it's true.  My walk to the X30 was probably a good 10 minutes or so, and I would imagine that I was one of the few folks that walked to the express bus for that distance, as I was usually the only one that would get on at my stop in the morning over by Clove and Forest.  Those who have a car there generally will drive.  Before the recession hit, the line for that stop by Harbor Plaza in the morning sometimes would go almost around the block.  Of course during those days, everyone believed they had money since mortgages were being given out left and right, so everyone could afford anything and everything. LOL

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Right, so when are we gonna get an X10J or whatever?

Now that I think about it, how successful would an X10J be? Would the catchment area (before the SIE) be enough to gain an SRO load?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Now that I think about it, how successful would an X10J be? Would the catchment area (before the SIE) be enough to gain an SRO load?

A X10J would be pretty stupid.  There is enough patronage along the route before Slosson (hence why many X10s get on the SIE after Slosson and Schmidts Lane).  That route actually exists to a degree when the Verrazano is closed.  The routing is usually to turn onto Slosson and then get on the SIE going towards NJ. I think we go through Bayonne and then into the city that way, then come down West Street to make the first stop Downtown.  In short, an X10J would require backtracking.  That's why there's a transfer point for the X31 for X10 riders, as the X31 goes via NJ at night, and via the Verrazano in the morning to avoid any backtracking.

[B35 via Church]

....As for Harbor Plaza, yep... That's a big stop in the morning... They all park there or are picked up from there.  Most of them park in that first row since it's closest to the drop-off bus stop at night.  A lot of them live in the vicinity of Mariners Harbor or over in Graniteville, but that parking area is big enough for them to park their cars during the day and not be aggravated with being hit with tickets or whatever for not actually shopping there and hogging up parking spots from actual customers.

 

 The other parking area is over by Richmond and Forest, which is another X30 stop that sees decent usage (probably the second or third biggest stop aside from the one by Harbor Plaza and the last one where the X17J also picks up by those condos).  Fewer people park there by Forest & Richmond though due to the lack of spaces and the distance from the express bus stop (pick up and drop-off).....

Makes sense.... I have to pay more attention to that, whenever I get around to fanning the 30x again.....

(talking about what folks do after they get off at that stop in the PM... I knew that was a big stop, but in the past, I have seen folks walking to wait to xfer for locals; that's why I brought that up.... These days, it's probably less apparent now, as you point out).....

 

Now that I think about it, how successful would an X10J be? Would the catchment area (before the SIE) be enough to gain an SRO load?

What do you mean "before the SIE"? The x10 doesn't run south of S. Gannon (which is a frontage road)...

It's like asking, does the whole x10 in & of itself get an SRO load.....

 

A X10J would be pretty stupid.  There is enough patronage along the route before Slosson (hence why many X10s get on the SIE after Slosson and Schmidts Lane).  That route actually exists to a degree when the Verrazano is closed.  The routing is usually to turn onto Slosson and then get on the SIE going towards NJ. I think we go through Bayonne and then into the city that way, then come down West Street to make the first stop Downtown.  In short, an X10J would require backtracking.  That's why there's a transfer point for the X31 for X10 riders, as the X31 goes via NJ at night, and via the Verrazano in the morning to avoid any backtracking.

You understood his question?

 

As far as passenger activity is concerned, "Before slosson" is the whole route in SI !

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

What do you mean "before the SIE"? The x10 doesn't run south of S. Gannon (which is a frontage road)...

It's like asking, does the whole x10 in & of itself get an SRO load.....

 

You understood his question?

 

As far as passenger activity is concerned, "Before slosson" is the whole route in SI !

I was talking about Richmond/ SIE. I never had in mind making the bus go out all the way out to Slosson then backtrack.

 

This is what I had in mind if the MTA ever decided to do an X10J

 

https://www.google.com/maps/ms?msid=204750700533050976010.0004fa304ee9608c0fce5&msa=0&ll=40.623204,-74.124241&spn=0.096547,0.209255

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The X42 through NJ can work, the AM X42 bus would start it's service at Slosson Av and Victory Blvd, travel along Victory Blvd, Watchogue Rd, Deppe Pl, Richmond Av, SI Expressway, Goethals Bridge Bridge, NJ Turnpike, Lincoln Tunnel, West 34th St, Madison Av, East & West 57 St to it's terminal at 11th Av and West 57th St.

 

The PM X42 would remain the same but would use West 42nd St and follow the exact same path through New Jersey and Staten Island to it's terminal point at Slosson Av and Victory Blvd.

 

The X42 along Richmond Av north of Deppe Pl, Forest Av and South Av would be discontinued, riders that need to get to East 23rd Av east of Madison Av can take the X12 to Madison Av and transfer there to the M23, some X12 buses that start at West 23rd St during the PM peak period would now start at 5th Av and West 40th St.

 

What do you guys think.

Not necessary... Those who need fast commutes already have the X30 going via NJ.  X42 is moreso for the folks in Castleton Corners and Westerleigh who need quick commutes.

 

I was talking about Richmond/ SIE. I never had in mind making the bus go out all the way out to Slosson then backtrack.

 

This is what I had in mind if the MTA ever decided to do an X10J

 

https://www.google.com/maps/ms?msid=204750700533050976010.0004fa304ee9608c0fce5&msa=0&ll=40.623204,-74.124241&spn=0.096547,0.209255

No need for that... The X17J exists for a reason... Those who want quick service along Richmond simply take the X10 or the local bus to the X17J or drive to the X17J. I've done that plenty of times... When running late, I got car service to Richmond and took the X17J.

 

You understood his question?

 

As far as passenger activity is concerned, "Before slosson" is the whole route in SI !

Yes, I do, but not all X10's hit the SIE after Slosson... That's one of the reasons why the stops before Slosson are slammed because most X10's hit the SIE after Slosson, so you have a lot of people dropping off near those stops or parking nearby.

[B35 via Church]

Yes, I do, but not all X10's hit the SIE after Slosson... That's one of the reasons why the stops before Slosson are slammed because most X10's hit the SIE after Slosson, so you have a lot of people dropping off near those stops or parking nearby.

Perhaps, but I've never known of any x10's to hit the SIE @ victory blvd.....

(which is what BM5 via Woodhaven just clarified that he was asking about)

 

The X42 through NJ can work, the AM X42 bus would start it's service at Slosson Av and Victory Blvd, travel along Victory Blvd, Watchogue Rd, Deppe Pl, Richmond Av, SI Expressway, Goethals Bridge Bridge, NJ Turnpike, Lincoln Tunnel, West 34th St, Madison Av, East & West 57 St to it's terminal at 11th Av and West 57th St.

 

The PM X42 would remain the same but would use West 42nd St and follow the exact same path through New Jersey and Staten Island to it's terminal point at Slosson Av and Victory Blvd.

 

The X42 along Richmond Av north of Deppe Pl, Forest Av and South Av would be discontinued, riders that need to get to East 23rd Av east of Madison Av can take the X12 to Madison Av and transfer there to the M23, some X12 buses that start at West 23rd St during the PM peak period would now start at 5th Av and West 40th St.

 

What do you guys think.

You're implicating that riders on the upper half of x42 (north of victory blvd) make their way to the x30.... Can't agree with that at all... x30 is already slammed with it's own riderbase east of richmond av.....

 

I was talking about Richmond/ SIE. I never had in mind making the bus go out all the way out to Slosson then backtrack.

 

This is what I had in mind if the MTA ever decided to do an X10J

 

https://www.google.com/maps/ms?msid=204750700533050976010.0004fa304ee9608c0fce5&msa=0&ll=40.623204,-74.124241&spn=0.096547,0.209255

If that's the section of the x10 you were originally asking about, then there's no way you'll be able to achieve an SRO load.... You may be able to steal some x11 pax that work in midtown & a handful of x17 pax that disembark in Bulls Head or whatever, but with that, and the current x10 north of victory blvd, I'm not sure it'll be enough.....

 

as was alluded to, you're not gonna get too many x17 riders willing to embark on "x10J's".... x17 exists for a reason....

Port Richmond x10 usage (esp. north of Forest, not inclusive) has been exaggerated for the longest.....

[Cait Sith]

 

Minor correction.... x13 was merged into the x14, not the other way around.....

("x14" still exists, "x13" is ghost.... lol)

 

I meant to say Merged With. Typing on the phone can be annoying at times, that was my fault lol.

 

As for this whole x10J thing, it won't benefit anyone. I would also think that the trip through the Gowanus is much faster than the trip over NJ. Folks in that area don't want another variant, they just want much better and reliable Downtown service. Also at the same time, an x10J would mean cuts to regular x10s or x14s, and there's a lot of people downtown that uses both them services.

 

The whole x42 via NJ thing....I almost busted out laughing on the bus when I read that....with the logic displayed, you might as well send the x2 and 5 via NJ.

[qjtransitmaster]

I meant to say Merged With. Typing on the phone can be annoying at times, that was my fault lol.

 

As for this whole x10J thing, it won't benefit anyone. I would also think that the trip through the Gowanus is much faster than the trip over NJ. Folks in that area don't want another variant, they just want much better and reliable Downtown service. Also at the same time, an x10J would mean cuts to regular x10s or x14s, and there's a lot of people downtown that uses both them services.

 

The whole x42 via NJ thing....I almost busted out laughing on the bus when I read that....with the logic displayed, you might as well send the x2 and 5 via NJ.

That was a joke but then you knew that.

[Cait Sith]

That was a joke but then you knew that.

 

Then don't post jokes....

 

Either post something legitimate or serious or don't post at all. And stop making terrible excuses.