(Q) Train after 2nd Ave Subway Built

[cl94]

If they restore the W to what it was before the service cuts, i wonder if they would be keeping the first three W trains of the day from 86 St and the last 3 W trains of the day to Kings Highway. I hope so. Has anyone here been on them or seen them?

 

No reason for them not to if they're still storing them at CI. Why run an empty train if it could be taking passengers? The layups north of 57th are gone and there's a limited number of unused tracks along its route, which also have to be shared with the .

[StevenFrancis]

Well, dont forget the R179s may also expand the SAS fleet which means some may go to the , this is just a hunch, but if the isnt resurrected, MTA will just have two trains, one via Astoria/59th Street and another via 2nd Avenue/63rd Street , but we wont know until its time actually come.

[Art Vandelay]

We do know that there will not be two Q trains, as DeKalb cannot handle the number of trains such would require. Besides, if there were two Q trains, one would be renamed W, and because of DeKalb's limitations, either the Astoria branch or the 96/2nd branch would end up having to terminate at Whitehall. Track layout dictates that the Astoria service be the one which ends up at Whitehall.  

[cl94]

We do know that there will not be two Q trains, as DeKalb cannot handle the number of trains such would require. Besides, if there were two Q trains, one would be renamed W, and because of DeKalb's limitations, either the Astoria branch or the 96/2nd branch would end up having to terminate at Whitehall. Track layout dictates that the Astoria service be the one which ends up at Whitehall.  

 

Right. DeKalb's bridge tracks cannot support another service and neither can CI. No use in sending it to Brooklyn through the tunnel except for the few trains to/from the yard as ridership doesn't warrant the cost and the extra cars aren't available. They sure as hell are sending every that currently goes to Astoria to the Upper East Side, if only to make use of the line that will finally have opened after nearly 90 years of on-off planning and construction. When that thing opens, it will probably be flooded with former Lex riders and necessitate every train it can get.

[realizm]

And also remember, the entire reason why the train runs express between either 57th, 34th or Canal and 59th Streets is because it relieves crowding for long-distance riders traveling between Midtown Manhattan and South Brooklyn.

 

 

Yes, thats why the T/Ds still send about two s from CI morning rush hours as Se Beach/Broadway Expresses to this day for the reason you've mentioned - to prevent bottlenecking at the interlocking north of 34th Street and again at the 60th Street tubes instead terminating at 57th St-Midtown. So as to increase capacity during the morning rush.

 

Doing this even though officially the is a Sea Beach Exp/B'Way Local. Rush hours being the exception with the few express trains sent out from the Sea Beach.

[traingoat]

We do know that there will not be two Q trains, as DeKalb cannot handle the number of trains such would require. Besides, if there were two Q trains, one would be renamed W, and because of DeKalb's limitations, either the Astoria branch or the 96/2nd branch would end up having to terminate at Whitehall. Track layout dictates that the Astoria service be the one which ends up at Whitehall.

The train would have to terminate at City Hall as the lower platform exists with 3 tracks plus there are storage facilities there as you have no yard unless you are digging them beyond 96th St. Whitehall has the platform but no storage at all. The lower station needs tiling and a couple of other things but is fully functional. The problem is the BMT doesn't have storage in Manhattan other than City Hall. The SAS is a local and stay on the local tracks the whole way. The Q and N can run express while in manhattan and the Q going local in Brooklyn as the B takes over. You can't be running MT trains all over the place to service this system.

[Wallyhorse]

Then there is the wild card to all of this, and that is IF (and a BIG IF) the Rockaway Beach Branch ever gets rebuilt as subway.  IF that happens, then what I think happens is this:

The replaces the along Queens Boulevard and runs Whitehall Street-Rockaway Park 24/7 (eliminating the Rockaway Park ).

The and swap terminals in Brooklyn with the running 95th Street-205th and the becoming 24/7 Coney Island via West End to Astoria (this so the has CI yard since the has Concourse yard).

The runs to Astoria from 5:30 AM-10:00 PM on weekdays and the rest of the time supplements the to 96th Street-2nd Avenue.

The becomes at least a 19/7 line to 71st-Continental (and possibly 24/7, which may be needed anyway for reasons unrelated to this).

[traingoat]

Then there is the wild card to all of this, and that is IF (and a BIG IF) the Rockaway Beach Branch ever gets rebuilt as subway.  IF that happens, then what I think happens is this:

 

The replaces the along Queens Boulevard and runs Whitehall Street-Rockaway Park 24/7 (eliminating the Rockaway Park ).

 

The and swap terminals in Brooklyn with the running 95th Street-205th and the becoming 24/7 Coney Island via West End to Astoria (this so the has CI yard since the has Concourse yard).

 

The runs to Astoria from 5:30 AM-10:00 PM on weekdays and the rest of the time supplements the to 96th Street-2nd Avenue.

 

The becomes at least a 19/7 line to 71st-Continental (and possibly 24/7, which may be needed anyway for reasons unrelated to this).

 

The problem with that is many fold as the full names of these trains is forgotten. R is the 4th Avenue local and kiss service below 59th st goodbye. The D would have to transfer to the local tracks at 36th St and go local the rest of the way to Ft. Hamilton. As that is the place the West End switches off. Sea Beach is 59 th St. Cutting service to Astoria will cause a rumpus as you took the Q for the SAS and taking the Sea Beach also from 10-5:30.

[Fresh Pond]

The train would have to terminate at City Hall as the lower platform exists with 3 tracks plus there are storage facilities there as you have no yard unless you are digging them beyond 96th St. Whitehall has the platform but no storage at all. The lower station needs tiling and a couple of other things but is fully functional. The problem is the BMT doesn't have storage in Manhattan other than City Hall. The SAS is a local and stay on the local tracks the whole way. The Q and N can run express while in manhattan and the Q going local in Brooklyn as the B takes over. You can't be running MT trains all over the place to service this system.

You can't terminate a train at City Hall, those lower level platforms were never finished and there is only 1 staircase on the only island platform (that third track has no platform). That's why southbound trains just terminate at Canal instead and just runs light to City Hall

[StevenFrancis]

We do know that there will not be two Q trains, as DeKalb cannot handle the number of trains such would require. Besides, if there were two Q trains, one would be renamed W, and because of DeKalb's limitations, either the Astoria branch or the 96/2nd branch would end up having to terminate at Whitehall. Track layout dictates that the Astoria service be the one which ends up at Whitehall.

 

Things can happen, I once heard of announcement bit for a 96th Street bound and at "57th Street-7th Avenue stop", it had one of the transfers as " to Astoria"

[Union Tpke]

Yes, thats why the T/Ds still send about two s from CI morning rush hours as Se Beach/Broadway Expresses to this day for the reason you've mentioned - to prevent bottlenecking at the interlocking north of 34th Street and again at the 60th Street tubes instead terminating at 57th St-Midtown. So as to increase capacity during the morning rush.

 

Doing this even though officially the is a Sea Beach Exp/B'Way Local. Rush hours being the exception with the few express trains sent out from the Sea Beach.

Do you know the exact times because I haven't seen them on Scott's transit playground? http://boerumhillscott.com/transit/index.php 

[realizm]

 

From 59th Street, N/B, Rush Hours- the 6:49AM train, the 7:57AM train, 8:09AM train, 8:27AM train and 8:48AM train, are all Sea Beach Express - 4th Ave Express - Broadway Express trains to 57th Street - Midtown as the last stop. The rest are Sea Beach/4th Ave Exp - B'Way Local to Astoria.

 

This is only on the AM rush weekdays. After 9AM the resumes normal service patterns, express in Brooklyn but local in Manhattan to Astoria. Its an interesting arrangement where the T/Ds do run select   trains express up Broadway in Manhattan. They have been doing it for years post 2010 budget cuts.

 

It makes sense because they don't want to overcrowd the 60th Street tubes and at the same time max the heck out of the headways in Brooklyn because of the 8th Avenue (Brooklyn Chinatown) and 36th Street stops in particular which is horrendously crowded during the rush.

 

The only reason I cant take pics of it is because I'm too busy trying to get to work or school lol. I will try though in the near future.

 

Even still during rush hours on my home line its a killer on the . Crushloaded cars!

[RollOver]

I can predict that the 60th Street tube will continue to see 24 tph (15 tph from Astoria and 9 tph from Queens Blvd) in the entire 8:00 morning hour and reverse in the entire 6:00 evening hour. The rest of the other times would be 18 tph (middays/evenings) and 12 tph (weekends).

[Broadway Local]

From 59th Street, N/B, Rush Hours- the 6:49AM train, the 7:57AM train, 8:09AM train, 8:27AM train and 8:48AM train, are all Sea Beach Express - 4th Ave Express - Broadway Express trains to 57th Street - Midtown as the last stop. The rest are Sea Beach/4th Ave Exp - B'Way Local to Astoria.

 

This is only on the AM rush weekdays. After 9AM the resumes normal service patterns, express in Brooklyn but local in Manhattan to Astoria. Its an interesting arrangement where the T/Ds do run select   trains express up Broadway in Manhattan. They have been doing it for years post 2010 budget cuts.

 

It makes sense because they don't want to overcrowd the 60th Street tubes and at the same time max the heck out of the headways in Brooklyn because of the 8th Avenue (Brooklyn Chinatown) and 36th Street stops in particular which is horrendously crowded during the rush.

 

The only reason I cant take pics of it is because I'm too busy trying to get to work or school lol. I will try though in the near future.

 

Even still during rush hours on my home line its a killer on the . Crushloaded cars!

 

 

 

As a daily Train rider here, the 8:09am one is actually my train, arrives at New Utrecht Av around 8:02am. When I first saw that it's terminating at 57th St-7th Av, then it's very understandable. I find it funny how they do that on the and not the .

 

Also don't forget the congestion at Ditmars Blvd during AM rush. 

 

The off-peak hours is also crowded on the southbound side, especially my 3:37pm or 3:42pm train arriving at New Utrecht Av.

 

[Union Tpke]

 

 

From 59th Street, N/B, Rush Hours- the 6:49AM train, the 7:57AM train, 8:09AM train, 8:27AM train and 8:48AM train, are all Sea Beach Express - 4th Ave Express - Broadway Express trains to 57th Street - Midtown as the last stop. The rest are Sea Beach/4th Ave Exp - B'Way Local to Astoria.

 

This is only on the AM rush weekdays. After 9AM the resumes normal service patterns, express in Brooklyn but local in Manhattan to Astoria. Its an interesting arrangement where the T/Ds do run select   trains express up Broadway in Manhattan. They have been doing it for years post 2010 budget cuts.

 

It makes sense because they don't want to overcrowd the 60th Street tubes and at the same time max the heck out of the headways in Brooklyn because of the 8th Avenue (Brooklyn Chinatown) and 36th Street stops in particular which is horrendously crowded during the rush.

 

The only reason I cant take pics of it is because I'm too busy trying to get to work or school lol. I will try though in the near future.

 

Even still during rush hours on my home line its a killer on the . Crushloaded cars!

 

Thanks for the info!

By the way, do you happen to know the W train short turns while it operated.

I know there were some at QBP and Canal.

[realizm]

Thanks for the info!

By the way, do you happen to know the W train short turns while it operated.

I know there were some at QBP and Canal.

 

The T/Ds did shorturns at those locations on the ? That I wasnt aware of to tell you the truth.

[traingoat]

You can't terminate a train at City Hall, those lower level platforms were never finished and there is only 1 staircase on the only island platform (that third track has no platform). That's why southbound trains just terminate at Canal instead and just runs light to City Hall

Simple, everything involved with Federal funds means the stations have to take wheelchairs and everyone of those new stations have to on the SAS. So you are building elevators and escalators and bunch of other stuff. Lower City Hall is a perfect candidate as it is built so no hole digging is needed. The station can be built to whatever standard is needed with minimum interference with the public. It is also seat of government. Every station which that train services is the same boat. Now the cost of just the stations along the Broadway line from 57th Street down to City Hall could break the MTA or your pocketbook with the fare increase. While the concept of using the Q train to get people access to Brooklyn , the Brighton line is not wheelchair accessible at this time or in the future at this time. When one looks at this plan of theirs with phase 1 and 2 going to 125th St and 3 and 4 going to South Ferry identical to the original 2 nd avenue. While its great to have the extension of service there also is the heavy pricetag to an old system.

[bobtehpanda]

Simple, everything involved with Federal funds means the stations have to take wheelchairs and everyone of those new stations have to on the SAS. So you are building elevators and escalators and bunch of other stuff. Lower City Hall is a perfect candidate as it is built so no hole digging is needed. The station can be built to whatever standard is needed with minimum interference with the public. It is also seat of government. Every station which that train services is the same boat. Now the cost of just the stations along the Broadway line from 57th Street down to City Hall could break the MTA or your pocketbook with the fare increase. While the concept of using the Q train to get people access to Brooklyn , the Brighton line is not wheelchair accessible at this time or in the future at this time. When one looks at this plan of theirs with phase 1 and 2 going to 125th St and 3 and 4 going to South Ferry identical to the original 2 nd avenue. While its great to have the extension of service there also is the heavy pricetag to an old system.

 

You'd probably need to figure out a way to shove in an elevator at Old City Hall that stayed within fare control, and elevator projects in existing MTA stations tend to take forever. You definitely don't need to retrofit the rest of the stations along the train line, however.

[traingoat]

You'd probably need to figure out a way to shove in an elevator at Old City Hall that stayed within fare control, and elevator projects in existing MTA stations tend to take forever. You definitely don't need to retrofit the rest of the stations along the train line, however.

The problem is very simple. You are going to be looking at a lawsuit. You can't have access to SAS and running the train on the old system and not be able to get them off. At City Hall you need two elevators , one from street to paying and a second to the track level. The major stations you have to do whether you like it or not. You can't give 3 or 4 stations and say that's it.

[Lance]

Sure you can. The Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 requires that new stations (whether that's brand new stations or complete rebuilds of existing ones) be ADA-compliant. While there are some exceptions to the rule and the MTA has been exempted in certain situations, there is nothing requiring the entire line to be completely ADA-compliant simply because a few new stations are being built along said line. If that was the case, when the island platform at South Ferry was built, the entire line would've had to been upgraded to meet those ADA standards. There's a reason why the MTA has selected a hundred key stations to be ADA-accessible by the end of the decade. Upgrading them all would be financially impossible unless it was paid for by government funding and since the government is not required to pay for this, that won't happen.

[bobtehpanda]

The problem is very simple. You are going to be looking at a lawsuit. You can't have access to SAS and running the train on the old system and not be able to get them off. At City Hall you need two elevators , one from street to paying and a second to the track level. The major stations you have to do whether you like it or not. You can't give 3 or 4 stations and say that's it.

 

Yes you can. Federal funds and ADA only applies to new construction here. Think about it; South Ferry opened with federal funds and ADA, but there are plenty of stations on the that aren't accessible and aren't planned to be.

[Lance]

I could've swore I said almost the exact same thing.

[Wallyhorse]

The problem with that is many fold as the full names of these trains is forgotten. R is the 4th Avenue local and kiss service below 59th st goodbye. The D would have to transfer to the local tracks at 36th St and go local the rest of the way to Ft. Hamilton. As that is the place the West End switches off. Sea Beach is 59 th St. Cutting service to Astoria will cause a rumpus as you took the Q for the SAS and taking the Sea Beach also from 10-5:30.

The as I understand doesn't serve Astoria as it is now in overnights. 

 

The format I have in mind (again, ONLY if the Rockaway Beach Branch is re-built as subway), has the being 24/7 Whitehall-Rockaway Park (and the 24/7 to 71-Continental that may need to happen anyway for other reasons) while the goes back to going to Astoria as it did pre-1987 (but swapping terminals on the Brooklyn end with the so the has CI yard as the has Concourse Yard) and the becoming the second Astoria train as the operates there now and other times supplementing the to 96th/2nd as the UES is by far the most densely populated area in the country and it would be warranted. 

[cl94]

Yes you can. Federal funds and ADA only applies to new construction here. Think about it; South Ferry opened with federal funds and ADA, but there are plenty of stations on the that aren't accessible and aren't planned to be.

 

Running stuff downstairs would involve opening a platform that was never open to the public. Per ADA regulations, "opened for the first time" is the same as "new construction" and you'd have to install elevators. Cortlandt Street , if/when it reopens, will have to be ADA compliant because the entire station was destroyed.

[bobtehpanda]

Running stuff downstairs would involve opening a platform that was never open to the public. Per ADA regulations, "opened for the first time" is the same as "new construction" and you'd have to install elevators. Cortlandt Street , if/when it reopens, will have to be ADA compliant because the entire station was destroyed.

 

Well, yes, but traingoat was implying that fixing up one station with ADA would require fixing up "all of the major ones" with ADA (which is sort of a moot point since all the express Broadway Line stops are already accessible except 57th St).