NewFlyer 230 Posted April 19, 2014 Share #76 Posted April 19, 2014 The as I understand doesn't serve Astoria as it is now in overnights. The format I have in mind (again, ONLY if the Rockaway Beach Branch is re-built as subway), has the being 24/7 Whitehall-Rockaway Park (and the 24/7 to 71-Continental that may need to happen anyway for other reasons) while the goes back to going to Astoria as it did pre-1987 (but swapping terminals on the Brooklyn end with the so the has CI yard as the has Concourse Yard) and the becoming the second Astoria train as the operates there now and other times supplementing the to 96th/2nd as the UES is by far the most densely populated area in the country and it would be warranted. Why man? Do you always share irrational ideas with people? How the hell is the getting to Rockaway Beach from Whitehall Street? Let's see how you answer that and another thing what is the purpose of switching and terminals in Astoria. The already goes to Coney Island and I hope you know that the and wouldn't need to swap terminals because of the fact that the travels on 4th Ave to get to Coney Island Yard. Currently the southern half of the is using trains from CI so what is the purpose of posting a idea that makes no sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traingoat Posted April 19, 2014 Share #77 Posted April 19, 2014 R trains use Fresh Meadows yard for facilities presently and storage so you aren't saving anything. Most of these crazy train routes are caused by the TA trying to further integrate BMT and IND together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j express Posted April 20, 2014 Share #78 Posted April 20, 2014 There is no such thing of a Fresh Meadows Yard. ®s home is Jamaica Yard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyer 230 Posted April 20, 2014 Share #79 Posted April 20, 2014 R trains use Fresh Meadows yard for facilities presently and storage so you aren't saving anything. Most of these crazy train routes are caused by the TA trying to further integrate BMT and IND together. What Fresh Meadows Yard? There is Fresh Pond but that is only for the . What is there to integrate they are basically the same thing the only exception is the BMT eastern division which is the and which can only use 8 car 60 ft trains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted April 20, 2014 Share #80 Posted April 20, 2014 R trains use Fresh Meadows yard for facilities presently and storage so you aren't saving anything. Most of these crazy train routes are caused by the TA trying to further integrate BMT and IND together. They have been integrated for decades... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadcruiser1 Posted April 20, 2014 Share #81 Posted April 20, 2014 How about this. If the does come back... Astoria Ditmars Boulevard to Whitehall Street with rush hour service to Bay Parkway. service runs as the Broadway Local which doesn't run on the weekends, or late nights..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realizm Posted April 21, 2014 Share #82 Posted April 21, 2014 How about this. If the does come back... Astoria Ditmars Boulevard to Whitehall Street with rush hour service to Bay Parkway. service runs as the Broadway Local which doesn't run on the weekends, or late nights..... Well the thing is that we still need a way to get the rolling stock serving the B'Way/Astoria Local to CI Yard efficiently as City Hall LL can only hold so much on layups as FP said also Whitehall can only turnaround so many trains during the rush. The Sea Beach seems ideal for this. It can be done (the sending of in passenger service trains to/from the yard to Broadway) via West End but thats a much more difficult operation for T/Ds and superintendents, for various reasons. So Id say IMHO when (not if) the is restored it should be restored to the original operations routine it was pre 2010 budget cuts with the service between whitehall and Astoria with few select rush hr trains (AM and PM as before) sent from Kings Highway on the Sea Beach, while the is restored as exprs in manhattan, and the sent all the way to Second Ave. The now defunct West End/Nassau Street ( M ) 's remember was designated to ENY not CI and theres a reason: Its difficult to send trains from CI via West End because of the layout at Bay 50th Street even with the yard spur. Sea Beach is a better alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollOver Posted April 21, 2014 Share #83 Posted April 21, 2014 As I said before, that's actually only when the starts and ends service respectively. They could send some trains to/from Brooklyn during rush hours, but it only has 10 trains. I also think the R211 order is meant for just fleet expansion so the can go up to SAS and the would be brought back. I'm still not really sure if they should restore Lower Manhattan-South Brooklyn local service for 4th Avenue/West End/Sea Beach if we just look back at the old brown as well as the amount of people who would just crowd onto the and to avoid meandering through all the local stops between DeKalb and Canal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T to Dyre Avenue Posted April 21, 2014 Share #84 Posted April 21, 2014 How about this. If the does come back... Astoria Ditmars Boulevard to Whitehall Street with rush hour service to Bay Parkway. service runs as the Broadway Local which doesn't run on the weekends, or late nights..... Well the thing is that we still need a way to get the rolling stock serving the B'Way/Astoria Local to CI Yard efficiently as City Hall LL can only hold so much on layups as FP said also Whitehall can only turnaround so many trains during the rush. The Sea Beach seems ideal for this. It can be done (the sending of in passenger service trains to/from the yard to Broadway) via West End but thats a much more difficult operation for T/Ds and superintendents, for various reasons. So Id say IMHO when (not if) the is restored it should be restored to the original operations routine it was pre 2010 budget cuts with the service between whitehall and Astoria with few select rush hr trains (AM and PM as before) sent from Kings Highway on the Sea Beach, while the is restored as exprs in manhattan, and the sent all the way to Second Ave. The now defunct West End/Nassau Street ( M ) 's remember was designated to ENY not CI and theres a reason: Its difficult to send trains from CI via West End because of the layout at Bay 50th Street even with the yard spur. Sea Beach is a better alternative. It certainly would appear to be easier to put in rush hour trains from CI Yard due to the track layout there which has yard leads that go directly onto the Sea Beach vs. the spur that leads onto the West End Line. But then why didn't they run the rush hour Nassau St ( M ) via Sea Beach? They ran it via West End for 24 years. For almost all that time, the alone served Sea Beach, except for those first and last few W runs during the am and pm rush. Yes, the ridership for the Nassau M dropped off during the last 10 or so years of its operation, but maybe there might be some need for West End riders headed to the Broadway Line who might want the Lower Manhattan/Downtown Brooklyn stops or the Broadway Local stops between Canal and 14th that a West End might be able to offer them and where there might not be much of an advantage in changing for the at 36th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realizm Posted April 21, 2014 Share #85 Posted April 21, 2014 It certainly would appear to be easier to put in rush hour trains from CI Yard due to the track layout there which has yard leads that go directly onto the Sea Beach vs. the spur that leads onto the West End Line. But then why didn't they run the rush hour Nassau St ( M ) via Sea Beach? They ran it via West End for 24 years. For almost all that time, the alone served Sea Beach, except for those first and last few W runs during the am and pm rush. Yes, the ridership for the Nassau M dropped off during the last 10 or so years of its operation, but maybe there might be some need for West End riders headed to the Broadway Line who might want the Lower Manhattan/Downtown Brooklyn stops or the Broadway Local stops between Canal and 14th that a West End might be able to offer them and where there might not be much of an advantage in changing for the at 36th. Well I believe the demographics were different back then necessitating additional West End line service unlike today. The major reason ridership is in demand now is the neighborhoods it serves are growing. Particularly Borough Park, Bay Ridge, Brooklyn Chinatown and the outskirts of Sheepshead Bay. This is why they are planning for a complete Sea Beach rehab with station modifications and structural benchwall repairs soon now. For example the 7th Ave entrance to 8th Ave will be rebuilt during its rehab as Brooklyn Chinatown ridership is skyrocketing and they need to compensate for increased passenger usage. Now the trains are crushloaded cars maxed out while trains are not as bad rush hours as I see every day now in my daily commute. It wasn't like this 15-20 years ago. Sp the times has changed and so did the demographics in terms of growing neighborhoods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallyhorse Posted April 21, 2014 Share #86 Posted April 21, 2014 Why man? Do you always share irrational ideas with people? How the hell is the getting to Rockaway Beach from Whitehall Street? Let's see how you answer that and another thing what is the purpose of switching and terminals in Astoria. The already goes to Coney Island and I hope you know that the and wouldn't need to swap terminals because of the fact that the travels on 4th Ave to get to Coney Island Yard. Currently the southern half of the is using trains from CI so what is the purpose of posting a idea that makes no sense? You missed the part about ONLY IF the Rockaway Beach Branch did get re-activated AND for Subway. As said, that is the big wild card in all of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46Dover Posted April 21, 2014 Share #87 Posted April 21, 2014 Well I believe the demographics were different back then necessitating additional West End line service unlike today. The major reason ridership is in demand now is the neighborhoods it serves are growing. Particularly Borough Park, Bay Ridge, Brooklyn Chinatown and the outskirts of Sheepshead Bay. This is why they are planning for a complete Sea Beach rehab with station modifications and structural benchwall repairs soon now. For example the 7th Ave entrance to 8th Ave will be rebuilt during its rehab as Brooklyn Chinatown ridership is skyrocketing and they need to compensate for increased passenger usage. Now the trains are crushloaded cars maxed out while trains are not as bad rush hours as I see every day now in my daily commute. It wasn't like this 15-20 years ago. Sp the times has changed and so did the demographics in terms of growing neighborhoods. Sea Beach is long overdue for a rehab. And hopefully we never see a storm like Sandy to wash it out.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biGC323232 Posted April 21, 2014 Share #88 Posted April 21, 2014 Why man? Do you always share irrational ideas with people? How the hell is the getting to Rockaway Beach from Whitehall Street? Let's see how you answer that and another thing what is the purpose of switching and terminals in Astoria. The already goes to Coney Island and I hope you know that the and wouldn't need to swap terminals because of the fact that the travels on 4th Ave to get to Coney Island Yard. Currently the southern half of the is using trains from CI so what is the purpose of posting a idea that makes no sense? LOL... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Posted April 21, 2014 Share #89 Posted April 21, 2014 You missed the part about ONLY IF the Rockaway Beach Branch did get re-activated AND for Subway. As said, that is the big wild card in all of this. Do me a huge favor and actually think about what you're saying before you say it. Nobody with any political clout is seriously talking about reactivating the Rockaway Beach line for anything. So your big "IF the Rockaway Beach Branch did get re-activated AND for Subway" statement falls flat since it's very unlikely that line will see service again any time soon, much less by 2018 when the Second Avenue stations open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Vandelay Posted April 21, 2014 Share #90 Posted April 21, 2014 Wild cards are things which may or may not happen. Rockaway branch being connected to the Queens Boulevard is NOT happening, so it can not be a wild card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted April 21, 2014 Share #91 Posted April 21, 2014 Wild cards are things which may or may not happen. Rockaway branch being connected to the Queens Boulevard is NOT happening, so it can not be a wild card. Even if the ROW was going to be reactivated (which is, quite frankly, about as likely as a private conservancy managing to raise money to turn the thing into a park - almost none), it's so far into the future that it's useless to talk about. There are no feasibility studies, no engineering studies, no environmental impact statements, no contracts ready to sign, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32 3838 Posted April 21, 2014 Share #92 Posted April 21, 2014 I don't know why people keep thinking the should go to bay parkway, there's not enough equipment (when it comes back) for it to go that far, there's only going to be enough cars for the to run to Whitehall after the R179 order, its better to leave the at Whitehall than to extended it further Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cl94 Posted April 22, 2014 Share #93 Posted April 22, 2014 I don't know why people keep thinking the should go to bay parkway, there's not enough equipment (when it comes back) for it to go that far, there's only going to be enough cars for the to run to Whitehall after the R179 order, its better to leave the at Whitehall than to extended it further Yeah. The R179 order is little more than an additional option of R160s to replace the remaining R32s and R42s. The 4 10-car trains will only be enough extra cars to send the to 96th Street and keep Astoria service levels where they are. The R211 order, however, is expected to add to the fleet, as they will probably be CBTC-equipped for QBL service and provide growth cars for future phases of SAS and other extensions/improvements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T to Dyre Avenue Posted April 22, 2014 Share #94 Posted April 22, 2014 I don't know why people keep thinking the should go to bay parkway, there's not enough equipment (when it comes back) for it to go that far, there's only going to be enough cars for the to run to Whitehall after the R179 order, its better to leave the at Whitehall than to extended it further Both Ditmars Blvd and Whitehall St have no nearby storage yard, so trains are going to have from somewhere else in order to go into and out of service at Whitehall. They were based out of CI yard and most likely will be again, so why not have the first few and last few runs of the day pick up passengers along the way? Why deadhead all the way to or from Whitehall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenSin Posted April 22, 2014 Share #95 Posted April 22, 2014 You missed the part about ONLY IF the Rockaway Beach Branch did get re-activated AND for Subway. As said, that is the big wild card in all of this.That's a grave misuse of the word "wildcard." Wild cards are things which may or may not happen. Rockaway branch being connected to the Queens Boulevard is NOT happening, so it can not be a wild card.Expanding on that: wildcard (noun): an uncontrolled or unpredictable element Yep. I think the Rockaway Beach Branch is well within the realm of predictability. It's about as predictable as a horse that loses 100% of the races it ever races in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j express Posted April 22, 2014 Share #96 Posted April 22, 2014 Most of the (W)s get stored at City Hall yard but 3 trains only went to C.I yard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted April 22, 2014 Share #97 Posted April 22, 2014 Most of the (W)s get stored at City Hall yard but 3 trains only went to C.I yard. It was more like 5 or 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j express Posted April 22, 2014 Share #98 Posted April 22, 2014 Were you refering to City Hall layup or C.I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted April 22, 2014 Share #99 Posted April 22, 2014 Coney Island. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollOver Posted April 22, 2014 Share #100 Posted April 22, 2014 Both Ditmars Blvd and Whitehall St have no nearby storage yard, so trains are going to have from somewhere else in order to go into and out of service at Whitehall. They were based out of CI yard and most likely will be again, so why not have the first few and last few runs of the day pick up passengers along the way? Why deadhead all the way to or from Whitehall? Nobody is saying that. Yes, whenever the starts and ends its operation, it can pick up passengers along the way (Sea Beach, 4th Avenue and Montague). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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