news Q train service modification beginning December 2014

[NYSubwayBuff]

I think 6-30 is too late the should only be local until 6 or 5-45 because and believe me I have been on Q trains at that time, the early commuters start showing up and it would be a PITA

 

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[leo2car]

I line on the West End line. I had taken the train at midnight and it was full in Manhattan, like 80%+. A lot of people get off on the 9th Ave station.

[LTA1992]

Yeah well the shuttle is a huge PITA.  It isn't coordinated with anything quite frankly, so unless you HAVE to take it to Brooklyn, most would just get a ride or take a taxi if needed.

Oh. My. Glob. We finally agree on something. The Shuttle never connects with the S53. And on that note, late nights, the S53 never connects with the S48 and always misses the transfer by two minutes. Pisses me off, especially when I'm not trying to walk.

[realizm]

The infamous train...... 98 years going strong still getting people nowhere fast. MTA going your way...

Bring back the !

[CenSin]

Do you actually stand at 59th street and wait for the ? I have, and the waits are usually MORE than 10 minutes. More like 20 minutes. Even realizm confirmed that.  Stats and actual wait times are two different things.

Of course some people will wait more than 20 minutes. But that just means that someone else will have a shorter wait, because that's how averages work! If I get lucky 3 times by always getting a train as I'm running down the stairs, it doesn't mean the average wait time for the specific service at the time is 0. The stats don't just measure your wait time; it measure many people's spread over a period of time. Stick around for a few nights and you'll see how stats work. There's always the bigger picture.

[bobtehpanda]

Of course some people will wait more than 20 minutes. But that just means that someone else will have a shorter wait, because that's how averages work! If I get lucky 3 times by always getting a train as I'm running down the stairs, it doesn't mean the average wait time for the specific service at the time is 0. The stats don't just measure your wait time; it measure many people's spread over a period of time. Stick around for a few nights and you'll see how stats work. There's always the bigger picture.

 

I mean, it's been established that the actual frequency is 20 minutes in the night, so technically VG8 is right.

[CenSin]

I mean, it's been established that the actual frequency is 20 minutes in the night, so technically VG8 is right.

The frequency is 20 minutes between train (and nobody argued with that figure). But that is precisely why the average wait time is 10 minutes.

 

Stats 101 on the Internet:

• http://quintessence823.blogspot.com/2012/04/expected-wait-time-given-multiple.html
• http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/52493/average-wait-time-arriving-at-subway-randomly

[Harry]

 

Subway riders at a handful of Manhattan stations will have shorter waits between midnight and 6:30 a.m. come December. Trains on the line will make all local stops in Manhattan and pick up passengers at Prince St., Eighth St./NYU, 23rd St., 28th St. and 49th St. Those stations currently are served only by the N train. With trains running local instead of express overnight, riders at these stations will see wait times decrease from an average of 10 minutes to about five minutes, according to the Metropolitan Transportation Authority.

Read more: Source

[biGC323232]

 

85312169mt004-public-transp.jpg

Subway riders at a handful of Manhattan stations will have shorter waits between midnight and 6:30 a.m. come December. Trains on the line will make all local stops in Manhattan and pick up passengers at Prince St., Eighth St./NYU, 23rd St., 28th St. and 49th St. Those stations currently are served only by the N train. With trains running local instead of express overnight, riders at these stations will see wait times decrease from an average of 10 minutes to about five minutes, according to the Metropolitan Transportation Authority.

 

Read more: Source

 

That's great news for local riders 

[peacemak3r]

A love and hate relationship with this. Definitely nice to get a one seat ride to home if an event pops up around that area. Then again, my mental dumbness hates to see an express service out the way.

[46Dover]

Well who here remembers the when it was the and it ran only rush hours in peak direction? Service has come a long way on this line.

 

Making a comparison: the used to run express before turned it into a late night local. I'm wondering if this is going to trend down to the remaining late night express lines in Manhattan

[S78 via Hylan]

I highly doubt that. I mean, the 7 Avenue already has the and local at night. It would be overkill to have those lines and the running local with it .

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Of course some people will wait more than 20 minutes. But that just means that someone else will have a shorter wait, because that's how averages work! If I get lucky 3 times by always getting a train as I'm running down the stairs, it doesn't mean the average wait time for the specific service at the time is 0. The stats don't just measure your wait time; it measure many people's spread over a period of time. Stick around for a few nights and you'll see how stats work. There's always the bigger picture.

Well the stats clearly show that the wait time between trains during that time of night is 20 minutes, so whether I go by the schedule or me waiting on the platform, the wait is at least 20 minutes.  You should just admit that your stats of 10 minutes were wrong.  Waiting 20 minutes for a shuttle train is ridiculous, especially considering the amount of transfers that people going to Bay Ridge or Staten Island already endure.  

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Oh. My. Glob. We finally agree on something. The Shuttle never connects with the S53. And on that note, late nights, the S53 never connects with the S48 and always misses the transfer by two minutes. Pisses me off, especially when I'm not trying to walk.

The doesn't connect with anything.  I started riding the express bus in 2006 when I was still living on Staten Island, but before that I would use the to the S53 or the ferry to the S48, and we're talking circa 2004 or earlier.  It's 2014 and the train still has almost the same exact service! Pretty pathetic.

[biGC323232]

Well who here remembers the when it was the and it ran only rush hours in peak direction? Service has come a long way on this line.

 

Making a comparison: the used to run express before turned it into a late night local. I'm wondering if this is going to trend down to the remaining late night express lines in Manhattan

 

I sure hope not..Because then the   will be force to run local...I personally wish the   make the   the all time 7 ave express and have the    the overnight local with the 

[46Dover]

I highly doubt that. I mean, the 7 Avenue already has the and local at night. It would be overkill to have those lines and the running local with it .

Well not so much the . It already got extended to Times Square as it is. The and currently the are the only 2 subway lines with late night express service. Would you say the may be next going the way of local?

[Calvin]

what about weekends @49 St when the goes to 57 St? Is it stopping there?

[Lance]

That depends on ridership demands vs. time savings. Unlike the Q, which will now serve five additional stops running local, the D would only make two more stops at 14 St and 23 St. While neither Broadway or 6th Avenue make it easy for either line to run local, the D would have to bounce from the express tracks coming off the Bridge and from Grand St and then go back over to said tracks to run up to Central Park West. The ridership has to be there for all that effort. Then there's the fact there are alternate options on the 6th Avenue local for riders. 14 St has the transfer to both the 7th Avenue line for easy access uptown and a connection to the Canarsie Line if riders really need 8th Avenue. The Broadway local stations are served solely by the N late nights.

[S78 via Hylan]

Well not so much the . It already got extended to Times Square as it is. The and currently the are the only 2 subway lines with late night express service. Would you say the may be next going the way of local?

You forgot the which also has late night express service.

[Snowblock]

Well the stats clearly show that the wait time between trains during that time of night is 20 minutes, so whether I go by the schedule or me waiting on the platform, the wait is at least 20 minutes.  You should just admit that your stats of 10 minutes were wrong.  Waiting 20 minutes for a shuttle train is ridiculous, especially considering the amount of transfers that people going to Bay Ridge or Staten Island already endure.  

No, you need to learn how to do math. At 20 minute headways, the AVERAGE wait is 10 minutes. Lets say two people are waiting for a train - one of them just missed the last train and has to wait the full 20 minutes, the other one is running into the station just as the train is arriving, screaming WHOOOOOL DA DORRRRR. 0 minutes + 20 minutes = 20 divided by 2 is 10. 10 minute average wait. Not EVERYBODY who swipes into a subway station at night just missed the last train - nobody ever remembers when the train comes right away, but never forget that full 20 minute wait.

 

It makes sense for the to run local on midnights. I can't believe how many people are bitching about this on twitter - an extra 3 minutes added to your commute so that riders at those stations can save 5-10 minutes to get any train at all?

 

As for the running local at night, that's a tougher thing to do in Manhattan. It would take away the across the platform connection with the at W4 or 34, and not only take away the across the platform connection with the at 59 (which is scheduled to occur in both directions if both trains are running on time), but would cause delays while one train takes the local track and the other has to wait to follow it. This is the main reason why the is express and the is local on CPW.

[Snowblock]

Only when the isn't running

[Via Garibaldi 8]

No, you need to learn how to do math. At 20 minute headways, the AVERAGE wait is 10 minutes. Lets say two people are waiting for a train - one of them just missed the last train and has to wait the full 20 minutes, the other one is running into the station just as the train is arriving, screaming WHOOOOOL DA DORRRRR. 0 minutes + 20 minutes = 20 divided by 2 is 10. 10 minute average wait. Not EVERYBODY who swipes into a subway station at night just missed the last train - nobody ever remembers when the train comes right away, but never forget that full 20 minute wait.

 

It makes sense for the to run local on midnights. I can't believe how many people are bitching about this on twitter - an extra 3 minutes added to your commute so that riders at those stations can save 5-10 minutes to get any train at all?

 

As for the running local at night, that's a tougher thing to do in Manhattan. It would take away the across the platform connection with the at W4 or 34, and not only take away the across the platform connection with the at 59 (which is scheduled to occur in both directions if both trains are running on time), but would cause delays while one train takes the local track and the other has to wait to follow it. This is the main reason why the is express and the is local on CPW.

Please... It's already been established that what the "estimates" and what happens in the real world often times aren't the same.  They've given "averages" before when they've made other changes, and those "averages" have never been close.  Anytime that I've waited for an train during anytime of the day the wait is at least 10 minutes unless I happen to get lucky and get one before then, but anytime that shuttle is running, you can forget it.  20 minutes is more like the average.  Do you even deal with the or the at all?  The people who ride I think should know best with regards to what their actual wait times are.  Hell if I went by the so called the schedules, I would be led to believe that train service on most lines is pretty damn decent, but let's take the for example.  There have been times where I have waited well over almost 30 minutes for one train during rush hour, and only two trains would come at that time.  Now I checked the website while waiting, and it claimed that there was "Good Service" (whatever that means), so where were the trains (and the trains for that matter?)  So in short, I'm skeptical of any information put out by the because often times their information is inaccurate. I know their detour information especially for buses is atrocious.

 

As for the folks on Twitter complaining, I don't blame them.  This is another case of the being Manhattan centric and giving the middle finger to the outerboroughs who have far longer commutes than the folks taking the local along the Broadway line.  They should protest this change and have the revert the back to express service.  I mean seriously, the runs pretty damn good, so I don't see why they need to take away ALL express service along Broadway.

[CenSin]

Please... It's already been established that what the "estimates" and what happens in the real world often times aren't the same.  They've given "averages" before when they've made other changes, and those "averages" have never been close.  Anytime that I've waited for an train during anytime of the day the wait is at least 10 minutes unless I happen to get lucky and get one before then, but anytime that shuttle is running, you can forget it.  20 minutes is more like the average.  Do you even deal with the or the at all?  The people who ride I think should know best with regards to what their actual wait times are.  Hell if I went by the so called the schedules, I would be led to believe that train service on most lines is pretty damn decent, but let's take the for example.  There have been times where I have waited well over almost 30 minutes for one train during rush hour, and only two trains would come at that time.  Now I checked the website while waiting, and it claimed that there was "Good Service" (whatever that means), so where were the trains (and the trains for that matter?)  So in short, I'm skeptical of any information put out by the because often times their information is inaccurate. I know their detour information especially for buses is atrocious.

 

As for the folks on Twitter complaining, I don't blame them.  This is another case of the being Manhattan centric and giving the middle finger to the outerboroughs who have far longer commutes than the folks taking the local along the Broadway line.  They should protest this change and have the revert the back to express service.  I mean seriously, the runs pretty damn good, so I don't see why they need to take away ALL express service along Broadway.

So if everything you said were true, then you shouldn't believe the MTA's 5-minute average for the Broadway line in December 2014 either, and that the MTA sends trains out every 40 minutes during the shuttle runs. Every figure the MTA provides must be doubled to meet your estimates.

 

Let's pose these questions to you:

1. If the MTA schedules the train, they must have train operators and conductors on duty to operate them at the times specified. If the headways for a line were actually doubled as you say they are, what are the extra 50% of the employees doing?

2. Would you say you're exhibiting a case of negativity bias? Maybe you're selectively ignoring all the incidents where your wait time was actually less than 20 minutes. Did you ever bother averaging all those time where you "got lucky?"

[Via Garibaldi 8]

So if everything you said were true, then you shouldn't believe the MTA's 5-minute average for the Broadway line in December 2014 either, and that the MTA sends trains out every 40 minutes during the shuttle runs. Every figure the MTA provides must be doubled to meet your estimates.

 

Let's pose these questions to you:

1. If the MTA schedules the train, they must have train operators and conductors on duty to operate them at the times specified. If the headways for a line were actually doubled as you say they are, what are the extra 50% of the employees doing?

2. Would you say you're exhibiting a case of negativity bias? Maybe you're selectively ignoring all the incidents where your wait time was actually less than 20 minutes. Did you ever bother averaging all those time where you "got lucky?"

No bias at all... I've often wondered if for example when workers call out sick are they simply not replaced, similar to what occurs with buses?  Not replacing workers that call out sick was/is a strategy that the admitted to doing a few years ago, but they weren't admitting it until it was reported.  It was their way of "cutting costs" without noting these "savings" officially.  They would simply not replace the driver and that bus would go MIA.  It's generally easier to do this with a bus than with a train though, but one has to wonder what happens to an MIA train if it is supposed to be running (per the schedule) and there are supposedly no reported delays or anything else?  I suspect that may happen far more often then we may now and what would stop the from under reporting these incidents just the way they were doing with the buses...??  What else would explain waiting for such long periods of time when there are no reported delays yet trains are MIA?

 

 

In amNew York today, Heather Haddon writes of cuts through unfilled shifts. When a bus driver calls in sick, the MTA will, instead of filling that shift with a driver set to make $42 an hour as overtime pay, simply allow the buses to miss their scheduled runs. She writes:

 

"To save money, the MTA has reduced the number of drivers used as subs for those who call in sick, resulting in the cancellation of scheduled trips, according to union officials and transit advocates. Up to 15 trips a day have been canceled in at least seven Brooklyn depots in recent weeks, forcing straphangers to wait for an extra 20 minutes at times, they said. In Manhattan, the already sluggish crosstown buses have also taken a hit, union sources said.

 

“If they cut it any more, it’s useless. It’s just faster to walk as it is,” said Billie Swarztrauber, 61, who recently waited 25 minutes for the crosstown M23 to show up.

A transit spokesman could not confirm the service reduction Thursday, but the cash-strapped agency has been trying to curb the nearly $500 million a year it spends on overtime. Filling the trips is expensive, with drivers earning an average of $42 an hour to work overtime."

 

Source: http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/03/26/report-under-the-table-cuts-target-overtime/

[RTOMan]

Why are you showing us articles from when the Wiskey and Victor was eliminated??

 

You need to do better to prove your point....

Let's pose these questions to you:

1. If the MTA schedules the train, they must have train operators and conductors on duty to operate them at the times specified. If the headways for a line were actually doubled as you say they are, what are the extra 50% of the employees doing?

2. Would you say you're exhibiting a case of negativity bias? Maybe you're selectively ignoring all the incidents where your wait time was actually less than 20 minutes. Did you ever bother averaging all those time where you "got lucky?"

 

 

 

He has No idea and his reply is a guess...