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East New York

R188 Discussion Thread

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On 1/10/2019 at 11:04 PM, VIP said:

I just thought that the R188 (Factory Sets) lighting is what made the cars look glossy but its actually their windows. I don’t Know if its the Mylar or the glass itself, but look carefully, they have a Tint. It’s like a light indigo color. 

Yeah, as far as I know, they're the only revenue trains with tinted windows.

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14 minutes ago, IAlam said:

Yeah, as far as I know, they're the only revenue trains with tinted windows.

Some of the doors on the ends of the R46 cars has or had tinted windows.

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13 minutes ago, trainfan22 said:

Some of the doors on the ends of the R46 cars has or had tinted windows.

Are you talking about the black edges or the actual window itself?

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1 hour ago, IAlam said:

Are you talking about the black edges or the actual window itself?

The actual window itself.

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7 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

The actual window itself.

I'll have to pay attention the next time I ride one.

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The windows are tinted slightly light blue but for now, the lighting on the factory R188s is still brighter than it is on the converted ones.  So it is likely both.

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16 hours ago, Bosco said:

So it is likely both.

I also think there's at least some tint to the windows since the factory-new LCDs also seem a bit darker, but are in fine condition compared to the range of what you find (perfect to just broken outright) on the R142A conversion cars

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1 hour ago, Enjineer said:

I also think there's at least some tint to the windows since the factory-new LCDs also seem a bit darker, but are in fine condition compared to the range of what you find (perfect to just broken outright) on the R142A conversion cars

Corona or 207th Street needs to overhaul those R142A’s that they call R188’s. I’ve rode in them and passengers alike know that some of those cars were on another line previously and reference them as “hand-me-downs”

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6 hours ago, VIP said:

I’ve rode in them and passengers alike know that some of those cars were on another line previously and reference them as “hand-me-downs”

I don't even get how some of the conversion cars still have like dirt smears and whatnot from the (6). It boggles my mind that they wouldn't have at least gotten a nice power wash or something in the process of moving them onto the (7)

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9 hours ago, Enjineer said:

I don't even get how some of the conversion cars still have like dirt smears and whatnot from the (6). It boggles my mind that they wouldn't have at least gotten a nice power wash or something in the process of moving them onto the (7)

Westchester does an absolute HORRENDOUS job on their cars, I don't know how they aren't kept in check. The R62A's from the (7) are already failing, they have smears, mechanical problems, etc.

The remaining R142A's are fairing much better on the (4) and (7) because Jerome and Corona take care of their cars

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1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

Westchester does an absolute HORRENDOUS job on their cars, I don't know how they aren't kept in check. The R62A's from the (7) are already failing, they have smears, mechanical problems, etc.

The remaining R142A's are fairing much better on the (4) and (7) because Jerome and Corona take care of their cars

That’s been Westchester for years, at least the R142A’s are off that depot being newer since they will suffer more over there than corona. Corona has kept its cars clean from way before the Redbirds (sometimes, even during the 70’s, 80’s), and it shows. I’m not too fimiliar with the yard, but I wonder if they should upgrade or fix westchester to handle more thorough or frequent car repair, since those R62s will still be in service for many years.

Edited by NoHacksJustKhaks

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20 hours ago, Enjineer said:

I don't even get how some of the conversion cars still have like dirt smears and whatnot from the (6). It boggles my mind that they wouldn't have at least gotten a nice power wash or something in the process of moving them onto the (7)

IINM, the cars were supposed to get some sort of touching up as part of the conversion.  Even then, it's hard to believe the converted sets are almost 20 years old, so it will take little more than a power wash for those cars to look brand new.

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3 hours ago, Bosco said:

IINM, the cars were supposed to get some sort of touching up as part of the conversion.  Even then, it's hard to believe the converted sets are almost 20 years old, so it will take little more than a power wash for those cars to look brand new.

I’m curious to know if this order was calculated correctly, unless the (MTA) takes all the C cars and pair them with other C cars and purchases another IRT car order because  the former R142A’s won't last as long as the factory R188 cars, as they already have a 20 year head start... unless the R142A’s are going to exceed their life span the way the R32’s have...

Edited by VIP

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If the R32s can run for 55 years, so can the 188s. So the factory sets and conversion sets being 15 years apart is no biggie IMO.

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16 minutes ago, trainfan22 said:

If the R32s can run for 55 years, so can the 188s. So the factory sets and conversion sets being 15 years apart is no biggie IMO.

Here’s the thing: The R32s were built to last very long and take the abuse they’ve been subjected to. The 188s on the other hand, don’t have the same build quality.

Edited by S78 via Hylan
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Was the entire line crowded when the route ended at Times Sq-42 St (before the Hudson Yards opening)?

Edited by Calvin

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On 1/27/2019 at 10:26 PM, VIP said:

I’m curious to know if this order was calculated correctly, unless the (MTA) takes all the C cars and pair them with other C cars and purchases another IRT car order because  the former R142A’s won't last as long as the factory R188 cars, as they already have a 20 year head start... unless the R142A’s are going to exceed their life span the way the R32’s have...

It's actually more like a 15 year head start, but your point still stands.  And yeah, as @MysteriousBtrain and @S78 via Hylan mentioned, the newer trains just aren't holding up as well as some of the older ones have.  Worst case, those C cars become some sort of trailer work car (trailer as in they can't run on their own, nor can any A-car NTT IINM).

56 minutes ago, Calvin said:

Was the entire line crowded when the route ended at Times Sq-42 St (before the Hudson Yards opening)?

I don't take the (7) regularly, but the few times I've been on there at Times Sq before Hudson Yards opened, the line was fairly crowded during rush hour.  Not as bad as Main St, but enough that SRO trains at 5 Ave weren't that uncommon.

Edited by Bosco
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Is there a source that indicates that newer trains aren't built to last as long as the older ones?

The tech probably won't, true, but why wouldn't the car bodies themselves be able to last 55 years? Keep in mind that no one anticipated that the R32s would last as long as they did, they've been hoping to retire them since the late 90s.

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8 hours ago, ttcsubwayfan said:

Is there a source that indicates that newer trains aren't built to last as long as the older ones?

The tech probably won't, true, but why wouldn't the car bodies themselves be able to last 55 years? Keep in mind that no one anticipated that the R32s would last as long as they did, they've been hoping to retire them since the late 90s.

A lot of it is just complexity. The older cars are built from a set of relatively basic parts, which restricts their functionality, but makes them cheap/simple to maintain. When you add developing, complex, and frequently proprietary tech like a computer into the mix, you are adding a new level of cost/complexity into the mix. Is this a reason not to pursue more computerization in rolling stock? Absolutely not. but something to be cognizant of. 

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On 1/30/2019 at 8:22 AM, ttcsubwayfan said:

Is there a source that indicates that newer trains aren't built to last as long as the older ones?

MDBF doesn't tell the full story (yard maintenance, etc.), but the MDBF for the NTTs in general isn't much better than the legacy fleets (in some cases, worse):

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/newer-mta-trains-beating-performance-starting-lag-article-1.3184932

Not sure if this is a new issue or if older cars had similar issues, but most fleets going back to the R142 not only had software issues, but quality issues.  The R160As and R179s were delayed due to manufacturing issues.  Even Kawasaki's quality isn't quite what it used to be 10 years ago.  They've had quality issues with the WMATA cars.

On 1/30/2019 at 8:22 AM, ttcsubwayfan said:

The tech probably won't, true, but why wouldn't the car bodies themselves be able to last 55 years? Keep in mind that no one anticipated that the R32s would last as long as they did, they've been hoping to retire them since the late 90s.

Given how some older trains wind up being used for work service, the bodies themselves should in theory be designed to last longer than the 40-year standard set.  But if the quality issues we've seen across the board continue to persist, then there's no way even the car bodies will hit 40.

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33 minutes ago, Bosco said:

MDBF doesn't tell the full story (yard maintenance, etc.), but the MDBF for the NTTs in general isn't much better than the legacy fleets (in some cases, worse):

It also doesn't take into account the variation in most common failure mode (and thus service impact per failure) across fleets; different cars fail in different ways. MDBF is great to get a high level look at fleet reliability, but if you want to look at service impacts, you can't be equating a door problem with a seized motor.

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9 hours ago, Bosco said:

MDBF doesn't tell the full story (yard maintenance, etc.), but the MDBF for the NTTs in general isn't much better than the legacy fleets (in some cases, worse):

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/newer-mta-trains-beating-performance-starting-lag-article-1.3184932

Not sure if this is a new issue or if older cars had similar issues, but most fleets going back to the R142 not only had software issues, but quality issues.  The R160As and R179s were delayed due to manufacturing issues.  Even Kawasaki's quality isn't quite what it used to be 10 years ago.  They've had quality issues with the WMATA cars.

Given how some older trains wind up being used for work service, the bodies themselves should in theory be designed to last longer than the 40-year standard set.  But if the quality issues we've seen across the board continue to persist, then there's no way even the car bodies will hit 40.

I agree, there was an issue IIRC I believe where the 3rd rail shoe came off the 3rd rail and trapped a train in a tunnel for a good long time.

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1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

Were the C cars and factory set R188's fully built at Kawasaki?

Yes, they were. 

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