R188 Discussion Thread

[Fan Railer]

Yeah, for the time being they won't be going anywhere. The sets can be broken down though.

 

I still don't understand what you are saying about mixing cars. The R142A's and R188's will essentially be the same car. An R188 car will be added to the each of the R142A sets. There will also be full 11 car sets of all R188's as well. They will all be CBTC compatible. That's the whole point of this procurement.

 

That's where the misunderstanding is: I am referring to the converted R142A's as R188's and the unconverted R142A's as R142A's. Does this make things clearer now? Only a portion of the R142A fleet is being converted here, so when things are said and done, the R188 fleet will be distinct from the remaining unconverted R142A fleet.

[2 Train Master]

That's where the misunderstanding is: I am referring to the converted R142A's as R188's and the unconverted R142A's as R142A's. Does this make things clearer now? Only a portion of the R142A fleet is being converted here, so when things are said and done, the R188 fleet will be distinct from the remaining unconverted R142A fleet.

Yes some R-142A's will be converted b\c whether the 62A's go to the or the there are enough R-142A's to cover the entire so its no need to send the entire fleet.

 

I can say it's safe to assume that 80 R-142A's from the will go to the for sure and those cars are 7731-7810 since that is the Supplement which they have the CBTC kit already.

 

I'm not sure how many cars the uses but there will be R-142A's elsewhere but the once the conversions are done.

[SI Subway]

Does anyone wanna guess what the R188 will look like, or what lines (other than the ) it will serve?

[Guest lance25]

We already have a good idea what they'll look like - similar to the R142As with slight updates since the R142As were built in 1999 through 2004. It has been established that the trains will have FINDs, but since they'll be connected to converted R142As, they can't be too different or they won't be compatible with each other.

 

As to which lines they'll serve besides the , it's way too early to tell. They could be like the R143s, which, after briefly serving the Myrtle Avenue line, never leave the or Transit could decide they want the trains on another line. Let's just wait and see what happens.

[Princelex]

I can say it's safe to assume that 80 R-142A's from the will go to the for sure and those cars are 7731-7810 since that is the Supplement which they have the CBTC kit already.

 

Where did you get that from? Just because the sets on the has CBTC doesn't mean that they are going to the . We haven't heard anything about that happening. We have to wait and see what happens next.

[East New York]

That's where the misunderstanding is: I am referring to the converted R142A's as R188's and the unconverted R142A's as R142A's. Does this make things clearer now? Only a portion of the R142A fleet is being converted here, so when things are said and done, the R188 fleet will be distinct from the remaining unconverted R142A fleet.

 

Now I understand.

 

Where did you get that from? Just because the sets on the has CBTC doesn't mean that they are going to the . We haven't heard anything about that happening. We have to wait and see what happens next.

 

Those will likely be the ones going over to the as it would be much more cost effective.

[2 Train Master]

Where did you get that from? Just because the sets on the has CBTC doesn't mean that they are going to the . We haven't heard anything about that happening. We have to wait and see what happens next.

The R-142A Supplements have CBTC Kits already.So wouldn't it make sense that its safe to assume those will go to the .The others don't have that.They're just like any and every R-142A its just 7731-7810 has the CBTC kit.

[Andres]

how come if the original R142 design went to Bombardier and i know it's the R142A's made by kawasaki but i think the conversion should have been done by the original makers of the R142 series, Bombardier Transportation

[Guest lance25]

Bombardier was offered the contract for the R188, but they declined citing that such a small order wasn't worth the cost of production.

[Princelex]

Now I understand.

 

 

 

Those will likely be the ones going over to the as it would be much more cost effective.

 

The R-142A Supplements have CBTC Kits already.So wouldn't it make sense that its safe to assume those will go to the .The others don't have that.They're just like any and every R-142A its just 7731-7810 has the CBTC kit.

 

My whole thing is, they've been talking about taking trains from the with this order, nothing has been said about the in all of this recently. That's not saying that it won't happen and I see what 2 Train Master is saying but all I hear is train cars being retrofitted with the CBTC equipment and nothing more. If the R142A Supplements on the go the then thats what happens, I just want to know if that's going to happen.

[2 Train Master]

My whole thing is, they've been talking about taking trains from the with this order, nothing has been said about the in all of this recently. That's not saying that it won't happen and I see what 2 Train Master is saying but all I hear is train cars being retrofitted with the CBTC equipment and nothing more. If the R142A Supplements on the go the then thats what happens, I just want to know if that's going to happen.

To me it won't make sense retrofitting every single R-142A the line has b\c the doesn't require that many sets I'm sure the has a couple of tens more sets than the .How many cars does the have for regular service compared to the ?

[Princelex]

To me it won't make sense retrofitting every single R-142A the line has b\c the doesn't require that many sets I'm sure the has a couple of tens more sets than the .How many cars does the have for regular service compared to the ?

 

It won't be every R142A on the . The is going to get 3/4th of the R142A's fleet on the . There are supposed to be some R142A's left on the . I think there are somewhere aroung 300-400 cars on the and it's close to 450 cars on the .

[Fan Railer]

It won't be every R142A on the . The is going to get 3/4th of the R142A's fleet on the . There are supposed to be some R142A's left on the . I think there are somewhere aroung 300-400 cars on the and it's close to 450 cars on the .

 

Ok, here's the breakdown of car conversions again... and hopefully this is the last time this needs to be posted:

 

146 New cars to be built, 360 R142A's to be converted (36 trains)

 

So that is little over 1/2 of the R142A fleet (360/600 cars).

[Andres]

Ok, here's the breakdown of car conversions again... and hopefully this is the last time this needs to be posted:

 

146 New cars to be built, 360 R142A's to be converted (36 trains)

 

So that is little over 1/2 of the R142A fleet (360/600 cars).

 

now to make room for the incomng 62's the surplus left over of the R142A fleet on the will have to go some where. because Westchester Yard can not handle all those cars. a friend T/O of mine told me some of the surplus would go to either

 

Unionport Yard

 

180th Street Yard or

 

Wakefield Yard now if those yards cant handle them where will they go? Jerome aint got room and Concourse is full of the 68's with no room to spare. what other yards are left Livonia? lenox? 240th? with half the fleet going to the thats going to be a huge surplus of trains. or are some of those 62's going to get stripped and scrapped?

[East New York]

how come if the original R142 design went to Bombardier and i know it's the R142A's made by kawasaki but i think the conversion should have been done by the original makers of the R142 series, Bombardier Transportation

 

Other than what Lance said, the 142A's are Kawasaki, so that's why they are doing the conversions as well. The R142's are Bombardier, and will not be modified. Therefore, in all actuality, there is no reason they would be working on this contract.

 

My whole thing is, they've been talking about taking trains from the with this order, nothing has been said about the in all of this recently. That's not saying that it won't happen and I see what 2 Train Master is saying but all I hear is train cars being retrofitted with the CBTC equipment and nothing more. If the R142A Supplements on the go the then thats what happens, I just want to know if that's going to happen.

 

I see what you are saying. I didn't know that lot of 142A's was already CBTC ready though either. I'm still learning about Subways. We will see though!

[geoking66]

In my opinion the strip maps are just as effective as the FINDs in showing the stations where the train will stop. The person has to be stupid in order not to understand what the strip map is showing. The FINDs can be harder to figure out, in that respect, though they're better in showing how many stops until the stop you wanna get off. Even if someone doesn't realize how the strip maps work right away, after a couple of stops he or she will be used to them. I'm not saying that the 7 should get strip maps. I prefer anything that's newer technology over older. But, we should also think on how much it's worth it for the to waste money especially since these trains cannot be rerouted to another line. There are other things around the system on which they can spend money that are far more urgent, I believe.

 

In the long run though, isn't the initial cost of FIND more worth it? The R188s will run in 5 and 6-car sets, so those 5-car sets could be rerouted onto the 7th or Lexington Avenue Lines for some reason (can't think of one in particular, but it can happen). Also, for services, it's easier to see only the express stops rather than the entire line and only a faint dot for express stops. Finally, FIND is easier to update in case of transfer changes such as the inclusion of new bus routes or if other subway lines change routings (the replacement of the V by the M is a good example). To me it seems that the flexibility of FIND warrants the upfront cost of the system.

[m7zanr160s]

In the long run though, isn't the initial cost of FIND more worth it? The R188s will run in 5 and 6-car sets, so those 5-car sets could be rerouted onto the 7th or Lexington Avenue Lines for some reason (can't think of one in particular, but it can happen). Also, for services, it's easier to see only the express stops rather than the entire line and only a faint dot for express stops. Finally, FIND is easier to update in case of transfer changes such as the inclusion of new bus routes or if other subway lines change routings (the replacement of the V by the M is a good example). To me it seems that the flexibility of FIND warrants the upfront cost of the system.

 

The cannot be rerouted on to another line, it's independent of every other IRT line.

[geoking66]

The cannot be rerouted on to another line, it's independent of every other IRT line.

 

I meant that it can be routed via B Division trackage to other A Division lines. If I'm not mistaken, work cars are of A dimensions, so it would make sense that an R188 could be placed onto the Lexington Avenue Line for example if there were some reason to do so.

[Fan Railer]

I meant that it can be routed via B Division trackage to other A Division lines. If I'm not mistaken, work cars are of A dimensions, so it would make sense that an R188 could be placed onto the Lexington Avenue Line for example if there were some reason to do so.

 

There would have to be a good reason to do that, but theoretically, yes, that is possible. Once converted however, the fleets will essentially remain separate and operate in their own line divisions.

[JayJay85]

now to make room for the incomng 62's the surplus left over of the R142A fleet on the will have to go some where. because Westchester Yard can not handle all those cars. a friend T/O of mine told me some of the surplus would go to either

 

Unionport Yard

 

180th Street Yard or

 

Wakefield Yard now if those yards cant handle them where will they go? Jerome aint got room and Concourse is full of the 68's with no room to spare. what other yards are left Livonia? lenox? 240th? with half the fleet going to the thats going to be a huge surplus of trains. or are some of those 62's going to get stripped and scrapped?

 

They are going to either 240th yard or Livonia yard to increase service on lines by 120 cars

[Kanarsie Guy]

They are going to either 240th yard or Livonia yard to increase service on lines by 120 cars

 

U kan bring back the there are 12 free trains even though it won't happen.

[CTK246]

The isn't coming back, skipstop isn't popular among 7th Avenue-Broadway

[rr4567]

The isn't coming back, skipstop isn't popular among 7th Avenue-Broadway

 

Now I was never a person to do all that fantasy routing stuff, but it may be possible to bring back the , but as an express from 96th St. to Chambers St., but that may have too much of an impact on trains going to/from 110th and coming from and going to Park Place.

[Guest lance25]

Why? Aren't the and enough express lines for Seventh Avenue? I doubt it needs a third.

Edited June 19, 2011 by lance25
punctuation problems

[IRT Bronx Express]

 

Why? Aren't the and enough express lines for Seventh Avenue. I doubt it needs a third.

Sixth Avenue did have the ((Q6Av) as express services at one point, but that's a different story.