R188 Discussion Thread

[VIP]

1 hour ago, jon2305 said:

The remaining R62As currently at Corona would cover up service in the event that those 240 St sets go back to the .

I think those R62A’s from 240th Street are permanent. Westchester still has 2221-2225/2346-2350 & 2306-2308/2156-2160

Edited April 5, 2018 by VIP

[Calvin]

36 minutes ago, VIP said:

I think those R62A’s from 240th Street are permanent. Westchester still has 2221-2225/2346-2350 & 2306-2308/2156-2160

Those numbers are on the  

[jon2305]

36 minutes ago, VIP said:

I think those R62A’s from 240th Street are permanent. Westchester still has 2221-2225/2346-2350 & 2306-2308/2156-2160

Westchester has the numbers above in bold as well as 2456-60/2461-65/2466-70/2471-75. That's 30 sets that are loaned from the .

2071-75/2081-85/2091-95 are the remaining unitized 5-car links at Corona yard that would be transferred over to Westchester to cover service on the . They could also link up singles 1901/02/03/04/1905 as a new 5-car set and bring over to the like they with 1911-15, 1916-20 & 1961-65 etc..

[Calvin]

They did have 1921-1925.. too bad that's broken as a shuttle

[m2fwannabe]

On 4/5/2018 at 8:09 PM, jon2305 said:

Westchester has the numbers above in bold as well as 2456-60/2461-65/2466-70/2471-75. That's 30 sets that are loaned from the .

2071-75/2081-85/2091-95 are the remaining unitized 5-car links at Corona yard that would be transferred over to Westchester to cover service on the . They could also link up singles 1901/02/03/04/1905 as a new 5-car set and bring over to the like they with 1911-15, 1916-20 & 1961-65 etc..

As of Thursday, April 5:

There are two 11-car revenue sets of R-62As on Tracks 15 & 16 at Corona Yard (1934 & 1954 head out); 2 others (1901 and 1905--both 4-Trippers) on 7-Ash with two EPOs.

Six singles are parked over near the old tower and the other 5-car link isn't visible.  All have the breakers shut off.

Its very possible they're marooned there until the next phase of CBTC is activated (or even the next phase, whenever they get the override aspect up and working).

It looks like 7-Ash might also presently be laid up, along with the diesels and whatever non-revenue operating equipment there is at Corona.

How the trash train is doing its work out there, I don't know.  Maybe there'll be sets of R-188's hauling Garbage Flats for a bit.

Its also not necessarily a given where the Queens R-62A's will wind up once they do leave Corona.

[m2fwannabe]

A nice chance for the new CBTC yesterday, April 5, to show off its (very expensive) attributes:

After visiting Corona, there was a delay reported "due to Police Activity at 34 St.-Hudson Yards."  No trains heading west (RR south) toward Manhattan for over 20 minutes as a result.

The blinking greens visible at Willets revealed that CBTC was in Automatic Mode, so when the delay cleared going east (RR north), there was a parade of seven R-188 trains in 9 minutes, and all seven were able to message their way through Willets toward Main Street with no problems, moving at 10 mph or less but without coming to a complete stop (except the passenger stop itself).  This much different from the Automatic Block era, where the trains would inch from signal to signal as each cycled.  At one point there were four trains packed out of sight toward Main Street with a fifth in the terminal,  presumably departing for Manhattan.  Another was heading east (RR north) out of Willets and another entering the station right behind it.

With the aspects clearing from red to blinking green in quick sequence, it looked a lot like rush hour on at Broadway Junction, actually.

Such is the "magic" of CBTC...Hopefully got what it paid for!

I wonder if CBTC is helping to relieve the morning  parade toward Flushing into the morning sun?  Are alternate trains still relaying at Willets?

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

How is the speed in Automatic mode during regular conditions compared to running with block signals?

[bulk88]

CBTC was off friday evening rush hour. Eastbound to Main Street, screen said "Bypass" when I got on, at 74th a blinking "CBTC available" message came on and stayed on in addition to "Bypass" till Main Street. Its still not being used during Rush Hour.

[m2fwannabe]

9 hours ago, RestrictOnTheHanger said:

How is the speed in Automatic mode during regular conditions compared to running with block signals?

The speed in Automatic is no faster than it was as trains are still governed by the automatic blocks and timers of yore.  The difference is that the signals are quickly cycled electronically, based on the data it receives, and not mechanically (or pneumatically).  This substantially cuts the distance between consists and permits closer, yet fluid, headways.  That's how service can be increased, assuming you have the equipment, crews and budget to do it.  In short, CBTC does not promise FASTER trains, but should support MORE trains, which can keep moving along and not create traffic jams.

[Fan Railer]

On 4/7/2018 at 10:50 PM, m2fwannabe said:

The speed in Automatic is no faster than it was as trains are still governed by the automatic blocks and timers of yore.  The difference is that the signals are quickly cycled electronically, based on the data it receives, and not mechanically (or pneumatically).  This substantially cuts the distance between consists and permits closer, yet fluid, headways.  That's how service can be increased, assuming you have the equipment, crews and budget to do it.  In short, CBTC does not promise FASTER trains, but should support MORE trains, which can keep moving along and not create traffic jams.

A certain T/O I know would like to disagree with you on this statement. Final build-out of the signalling system for Flushing CBTC involves removing a TON of existing signalling, ie, lengthening blocks; certain speed restrictions will be (and some have already been) lifted.

[darkstar8983]

59 minutes ago, Fan Railer said:

A certain T/O I know would like to disagree with you on this statement. Final build-out of the signalling system for Flushing CBTC involves removing a TON of existing signalling, ie, lengthening blocks; certain speed restrictions will be (and some have already been) lifted.

I agree with you in terms of lifting specific speed restrictions to speed up service, but removing a lot of existing signaling would be a poor decision considering the consequences of CBTC failures (seen many times on the  ) and force sub-par service on the  in CBTC bypass mode because of the longer blocks.

[Union Tpke]

16 hours ago, Fan Railer said:

A certain T/O I know would like to disagree with you on this statement. Final build-out of the signalling system for Flushing CBTC involves removing a TON of existing signalling, ie, lengthening blocks; certain speed restrictions will be (and some have already been) lifted.

I heard that running time wil be cut down end-to-end by about three minutes.

[7-express]

On 4/7/2018 at 1:37 PM, bulk88 said:

CBTC was off friday evening rush hour. Eastbound to Main Street, screen said "Bypass" when I got on, at 74th a blinking "CBTC available" message came on and stayed on in addition to "Bypass" till Main Street. Its still not being used during Rush Hour.

This morning, CBTC only seemed to be in effect from Main Street through to Junction Blvd.  They seem to be smoothing out the terminal ops issues slowly but I'm not sure what happened to the stretch between Junction Blvd and Woodside that was supposed to be active.

[bulk88]

On 4/7/2018 at 10:50 PM, m2fwannabe said:

The speed in Automatic is no faster than it was as trains are still governed by the automatic blocks and timers of yore.  The difference is that the signals are quickly cycled electronically, based on the data it receives, and not mechanically (or pneumatically).  This substantially cuts the distance between consists and permits closer, yet fluid, headways.  That's how service can be increased, assuming you have the equipment, crews and budget to do it.  In short, CBTC does not promise FASTER trains, but should support MORE trains, which can keep moving along and not create traffic jams.

So with ATPM are trip cocks are always down but light aspects and block timers work just as before? I assume electronic penalty brake if a signal is violated, not a dump?

[m2fwannabe]

59 minutes ago, bulk88 said:

So with ATPM are trip cocks are always down but light aspects and block timers work just as before? I assume electronic penalty brake if a signal is violated, not a dump?

From what I could tell the trip cocks were working as always on all existing signals.  There are new "leaving" signals situated at many stations west of Woodside which are still blocked out.  Those appear NOT to have associated trip devices. 

[Lawrence St]

I would like to applaud to whoever came up with the idea of having a back up signalling system on the in case CBTC would fail. If only we could reinstall the signals on the that would be great.

[bulk88]

On 4/10/2018 at 7:01 PM, m2fwannabe said:

From what I could tell the trip cocks were working as always on all existing signals.  There are new "leaving" signals situated at many stations west of Woodside which are still blocked out.  Those appear NOT to have associated trip devices. 

Grapevine told me 33 to 61 is getting new signal heads/relays, CBTC wont be active in that section until there is a cutover to new block signals. Queensboro plaza was done mid 2000s. Main Street early 2000s. Tube early 2010s. "aslong as the signals are bagged, there wont be CBTC there".

[Fan Railer]

On 4/10/2018 at 8:31 PM, Lawrence St said:

I would like to applaud to whoever came up with the idea of having a back up signalling system on the in case CBTC would fail. If only we could reinstall the signals on the that would be great.

Don't hold your breath; as I mentioned earlier, a lot of the signals you see still in service now are getting ripped out for the full cut-over.

[7-express]

For the first time in a couple weeks, CBTC was not active this morning around the Main Street/Willets Point area.  Wonder what happened since that was the only segment it was mostly active on since the beginning of the month.

[Lawrence St]

CBTC was active in the 74th St area a few weeks ago. 

[7-express]

2 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

CBTC was active in the 74th St area a few weeks ago. 

That area hasn't been for at least a week or so based on my morning commute.  Just regular ol block signals there.

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

On 4/8/2018 at 10:53 PM, Fan Railer said:

A certain T/O I know would like to disagree with you on this statement. Final build-out of the signalling system for Flushing CBTC involves removing a TON of existing signalling, ie, lengthening blocks; certain speed restrictions will be (and some have already been) lifted.

How will lenghtening blocks increase throughput?

Sorry if this seems like a noob question

[Fan Railer]

11 hours ago, RestrictOnTheHanger said:

How will lenghtening blocks increase throughput?

It doesn't. It does quite the opposite, but only if CBTC goes down.

[CTK246]

CBTC has been delayed again until December, but will remain active between Main St and 74 St. Limited rush hour use, as well.

 

 

[Lance]

It's going to take another ~6 months to iron out software kinks. Embarrassing.