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mfs NJT459

Amtrak CEO warns Hudson River Tunnels will shut down within 20 years

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Our worst fears have been realized...

 

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2014/05/amtrak_chief_gives_hudson_rail_tunnels_20_years_to_live_tops.html

 

 

Who can we blame? Governor Christie for cancelling the Arc Tunnel
http://www.businessinsider.com/chris-christies-tunnel-decision-2014-5#!KAIs9

 

The fact is, we don't know when exactly one or two tunnels will shut down... it could be at least 7 years
 

This is scary for the northeast

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I'm reading about it now from a different article. This is not looking good. New York State and the State of New Jersey better figure something out quickly. The much needed ARC project is dead, and the gateway project is decades off the mark. With the cross Hudson tunnels they suffered incredible damage from Hurricane Sandy, in terms of saltwater erosion much like the Montague Street tunnel in NYC Transit, the reason its shut down for repairs with split Broadway Local service.

Amtrak is in a dilemma here because unlike NYC Transit, Amtrak cant just shut down one of its critical links between NYC and NJ, as that reduces the capacity of 24 trains per hour to only 4 if Amtrak decides to single-track. So the only real obvious alternative is to construct new underwater tunnels. Of course everyone is dragging their feet about it as usual.

Everything really lies on Governor Christie, he screwed up by killing the ARC project, and commuters are about to pay a hefty price for it.

Edited by realizm

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I'm reading about it now from a different article. This is not looking good. New York State and the State of New Jersey better figure something out quickly. The much needed ARC project is dead, and the gateway project is decades off the mark. With the cross Hudson tunnels they suffered incredible damage from Hurricane Sandy, in terms of saltwater erosion much like the Montague Street tunnel in NYC Transit, the reason its shut down for repairs with split Broadway Local service.

 

Amtrak is in a dilemma here because unlike NYC Transit, Amtrak cant just shut down one of its critical links between NYC and NJ, as that reduces the capacity of 24 trains per hour to only 4 if Amtrak decides to single-track. So the only real obvious alternative is to construct new underwater tunnels. Of course everyone is dragging their feet about it as usual.

 

Everything really lies on Governor Christie, he screwed up by killing the ARC project, and commuters are about to pay a hefty price for it.

well time to leave new York.

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I guess there will be ferries again from Jersey City. Time to reconstruct the pier over there...

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I guess there will be ferries again from Jersey City. Time to reconstruct the pier over there...

 

 

NY Waterways will make a killing then!

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Man PABT is gonna need like 200 more gates now. And the XBL is gonna need to stay open at all times. I understand Christie wanted to save $$ here, but killing off the ARC wasn't the way to do it.

 

The way I see it, NEC trains are gonna be diverted to Hoboken and the PATH and 126 are gonna become packed. Like, packed worse than before.

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited by Transitkid4608

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This is going to have a huge impact on the New York and NJ local economy, as there is plenty of reverse commuting from/to New Jersey. Many Jersians depend on New York to make their money, and on the flip side the New York job sector is so highly saturated in terms of professional jobs that forces many NY'ers to look for work elsewhere - this problem with the Hudson tubes are going to create some serious problems if the politicians dont get their act straight. but as usual they dont care. They are content with their lot in life so the heck with the common folks who cant afford cars to get around it using the Lincoln of Hudson tunnels. What a crying shame. What then? Should we just get kayaks and paddle our way to work? We got to be eco friendly...

Cuomo is too busy tooting his horn to his flagship MNRR Penn Station access project we local New Yorkers or New Jersians dont need. I guess the medical marijuana initiative must been put into effect for NYS ahead of time because he must be smoking something! While Gov Christie is equally as apathetic to the issue.... I guess his strategy must be the same as the GWB, hey if we can shut down lanes on the bridge, then yeah lets go for shutting down the tubes one ROW at the time we can single track it... Betcha right now thats his thinking as he's in his office complementing over it while eating his box of donuts...

Meanwhile, the tubes are about to cave in! It doesnt take too much its not rocket science.... most politicians are all about motorist alternatives and not transit options that much is apparent.

Edited by realizm
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This might be a bit far-fetched, but couldn't they connect the PATH tracks to Penn Station somehow?

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Hold up: Before PATH was implemented the Hudson Tunnel Company was responsible for building the Hudson tubes and was operated by the Hudson and Manhattan Railroad company. Its built to railroad dimensions. It reminds me in a way of how the IRT Pelham Bay Line was built under the Dual Contacts also the Brooklyn IRT, much of it is actually built to railroad car dimentions not IRT composite dimensions.

 

Okay...
 
But wait a minute, as for the majority of the PATH system in Manhattan, isnt it built to IRT specificactions? I am unclear on this. cant find any information on this as the Port Authority removed this info, and on many sites the info on this does not exist, if anyone has info on this please post.
 
 

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Amtrak to Hoboken, anyone?

Face it Acela Express Hoboken to Washington just doesn't have that same ring to it :(

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Hold up: Before PATH was implemented the Hudson Tunnel Company was responsible for building the Hudson tubes and was operated by the Hudson and Manhattan Railroad company. Its built to railroad dimensions. It reminds me in a way of how the IRT Pelham Bay Line was built under the Dual Contacts also the Brooklyn IRT, much of it is actually built to railroad car dimentions not IRT composite dimensions.

 

Okay...

 

But wait a minute, as for the majority of the PATH system in Manhattan, isnt it built to IRT specificactions? I am unclear on this. cant find any information on this as the Port Authority removed this info, and on many sites the info on this does not exist, if anyone has info on this please post.

The answer is yea to all The Hudson Tubes do use full railroad standards for most of the system except for radius of curvature of the turns in Manhattan proper. This is why the cars have IRT lengths as the overhang on the turns would strike the platforms. You have to remember that the extension to Newark runs on originally PRR tracks which had overhead wires years ago as freight ran out of the Harrison yards on them. 50 years ago the cars going to Newark were the newest they had but also had big PRR keystone emblems on them and all MOW was done by PRR equipment and signaling on that portion was PRR standards. The reason in New York proper is the same reason today why the sharp turns, you need to makes the turns with the streets so as not to support the buildings. That area was narrow streets 60 years ago before they had built the World's Trade center as I remember it well.

 

Great idea except what station are they using as it has to be built. Look the turns and overhangs of the standard cars would cause all kinds of problems plus you don't have overhead power.

 

This might be a bit far-fetched, but couldn't they connect the PATH tracks to Penn Station somehow?

The original design called for the tubes also to go to Grand Central which could be built. The present Path trains can't go to Penn Station without radical redesign.

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The answer is yea to all The Hudson Tubes do use full railroad standards for most of the system except for radius of curvature of the turns in Manhattan proper. This is why the cars have IRT lengths as the overhang on the turns would strike the platforms. You have to remember that the extension to Newark runs on originally PRR tracks which had overhead wires years ago as freight ran out of the Harrison yards on them. 50 years ago the cars going to Newark were the newest they had but also had big PRR keystone emblems on them and all MOW was done by PRR equipment and signaling on that portion was PRR standards. The reason in New York proper is the same reason today why the sharp turns, you need to makes the turns with the streets so as not to support the buildings. That area was narrow streets 60 years ago before they had built the World's Trade center as I remember it well.

 

Great idea except what station are they using as it has to be built. Look the turns and overhangs of the standard cars would cause all kinds of problems plus you don't have overhead power.

 

The original design called for the tubes also to go to Grand Central which could be built. The present Path trains can't go to Penn Station without radical redesign.

 

I see what you mean:

 

map-tube-plans-with-central-railroad-ori

schematic-9thst-carleton.gif

Thats an interesting fact to bring out about the the history of the Hudson and Manhattan RR now the PATH.

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I see what you mean:

 

map-tube-plans-with-central-railroad-ori

schematic-9thst-carleton.gif

Thats an interesting fact to bring out about the the history of the Hudson and Manhattan RR now the PATH.

What is forgotten by most as that area of New York was built on shipping as it had a good number of piers as lower Manhattan commerce was shipping. Even 60 years ago that area was war surplus army navy stores with various pet shops with stores like odd lots being there. If you needed a part for damn near anything that was the area to get it. So I was in that area and knew it well plus I had to take that train to Newark everyday This is before the changes to Harrison yard for NJ Transit as NJ Transit didn't exist but only Penn Railroad. Buses were Public Service and the same with Newark's subway.

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LOL....

[/quote

 

This is what you get when you have non knowledgeable commentators tossing out ideas as gospel.

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So, if nothing is done, how feasible is to have a split service, with trains terminating at Newark, Hoboken, and Secacus, with non stop express from Secacus to New York Penn and PABT.

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So, if nothing is done, how feasible is to have a split service, with trains terminating at Newark, Hoboken, and Secacus, with non stop express from Secacus to New York Penn and PABT.

You do realize one does not simply run express via the Lincoln tunnel at rush hour.

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You do realize one does not simply run express via the Lincoln tunnel at rush hour.

I concur. Not unless the XBL moves like a conveyor belt, which it does most mornings. Some mornings there's stoppages, broken down buses, accidents in the outbound 495 lane, etc.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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An instafix create a bridge for cars from NJTP to Manhattan then convert the Lincoln into a rail tunnel and new tracks to existing NEC in Manhattan and NJ. OR simply build new tunnels for Amtrak and NJT 4 tracks and a union city station. No need for nonsensical (7) to NJ.

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