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Fleet Swap Discussion Thread

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13 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

Also the 10 car R179's were always planned to go to the (A)

I don't know why y'all want them to go to CI when they don't have the parts for the cars. 130 cars would be an oddball fleet, with a chunk of 8 car R179's on the (C) with the 130 for the (A) it make the most logical sense to keep an on there. 

If it's that bad, they can put the R32's on the (Q) and restrict them to rush hour use only since it's a 60 foot car. 

I'm tired of the we need to f**k the (A) line over and give them hand me downs. The R46's are 45 years old, the majority of the (A) fleet is R46's. The R32's and R179's make a small chunk of the (A) line's fleet.

The (A) hasn't gotten a full fleet of new cars since the R44's.

@Lawrence St probably meant why not send the R179s from 207th/Pitkin to Jamaica, not CI. I told  him that 13 trainsets of R179s in 10 cars are not enough to fully cover the whole (F) and (R) fleets for Queens Blvd CBTC.

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24 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

 

Jamaica before the swap had 396 cars (49.5 train consists)

Coney Island has 580 R160's (58 train consists)

So far Jamaica lost 3 sets of R46's so now it's at 46.5 train consists.

 

Jamaica would only need 460 R160's out of 560-550. (CI lost 2-3 r160s already) 

(E) uses 26 trains

(F) uses 46 trains

(R) uses 31 trains 

Coney Island is gonna need more R46's than what Jamaica has because of spares. Remember CI took 2 or more sets of R68's from concourse. So concourse will need those R68's back.

So the (A) would have to loose more R46's as more R179's come in. This means more R32 (A) trains and maybe R42 (A) trains if they need a higher spare count.

In theory Jamaica might need only 460-470 R160's since they require the least amount of spares vs the R46's which would require more spares due to their age.

 

So my speculation of what the assignments would look like

(B) R46,R68

(G) R68 or R46

(Q) R68A 

(N)(W) R46, R160

 

 

It’s already planned that the R46’s remain on the (N) and (W) lines. The R68A’s will end up on the (Q) along with some R160’s as per car equipment management “to optimize the fullest operational potential, R46 equipment to serve (B)(N) and (W)” makes sense as The (B) and (W) are part time lines. (And the (F) uses up to 45 train sets while the (R) uses 29-30 train-sets).

Edited by VIP
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Nice, the 68/68A returns to the Brighton local! The 68s were the first b div cars I rode somewhat regularly since I lived near an Brighton local stop growing up. 68 (D) trains and later on 68 (Q) trains. Nice to see the hippos will be back on the (Q)

Edited by trainfan22
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1 hour ago, R32 3838 said:

Jamaica before the swap had 396 cars (49.5 train consists)

Coney Island has 580 R160's (58 train consists)

So far Jamaica lost 3 sets of R46's so now it's at 46.5 train consists.

Jamaica would only need 460 R160's out of 560-550. (CI lost 2-3 r160s already) 

(E) uses 26 trains

(F) uses 46 trains

(R) uses 31 trains 

Coney Island is gonna need more R46's than what Jamaica has because of spares. Remember CI took 2 or more sets of R68's from concourse. So concourse will need those R68's back.

So the (A) would have to loose more R46's as more R179's come in. This means more R32 (A) trains and maybe R42 (A) trains if they need a higher spare count.

In theory Jamaica might need only 460-470 R160's since they require the least amount of spares vs the R46's which would require more spares due to their age.

 

So my speculation of what the assignments would look like

(B) R46,R68

(G) R68 or R46

(Q) R68A 

(N)(W) R46, R160

My speculation is similar to yours in a way, but just in a more clearer detail. It is also based on the current number of trainsets operated on each line during rush hours. It took me a little bit to do the math on Google. Read very carefully below. If it's too complicated, I apologize in advance.

260 (E) R160 cars + 460 (F) R160 cars + 310 (R) R160 cars + 150 spare R160 trains (50 spare R160 trains for each line) = 1,180 R160 cars assigned to Jamaica; the remaining 110 R160s in 10-cars are left at CI for (Q) service (70 in service and 40 as spares)

70 (A) R32 cars + 72 (C) R32 cars + 80 spare R32 cars (40 for each line) = 222 R32 cars assigned to 207th.

72 (C) R179 cars + 80 (J)(Z) R179 cars + 36 spare R179 cars = 188 R179 four-car sets (92 assigned to 207th, the rest assigned to ENY)

80 (J)(Z) R160A-1 cars + 40 (L) R160A-1 cars + 192 (M) R160A-1 cars + 60 spare R160A-1 cars = All 372 R160A-1 cars still at ENY as they were before.

100 out of 130 R179 five-car sets assigned for (A) service out of 207th/Pitkin.

30 out of the 50 R42 cars moved from ENY to Pitkin/207th for (A) service. The remaining 20 stay at ENY as a reversed fleet for (J)(Z) service.

200 (B) R46 cars + 264 (N)(W) R46 cars + 80 spare R46 cars = 544 R46 cars total all assigned to CI; the rest of the R46 fleet remain at Pitkin for the (A) (160 cars) and Rockaway Park(S) (12 cars) + 34 spare cars. In total, that's 206 R46 cars assigned to Pitkin. So 544 + 206 = 750 R46 cars total.

Like @VIP stated, the Coney Island Assigned R46 would need to be solely on the (B) and (W) since they are weekday-only lines, allowing the R46 to get rest every night and every weekend with the exception of the ones on the full-time (N). Plus the electric side signs on the R46 make it easier for swapping trains at Astoria and the (B) has two different north terminals so there is no sign changing required.

288 R68 cars total assigned to Concourse for (D) service (240 in service and 48 as spares); the rest remain at CI, with a total of 137 R68 cars (52 in (G) service, 64 in (Q) service, and those 4 singles in Franklin Shuttle Service, and the rest as spares)

All 200 R68As remain at CI as before, with 56 in (Q) service and the rest as spares or reversed fleet.

All other car assignments are generally the same so I don't think I need to mention them here.

Phew.

Edited by Jemorie

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1 hour ago, subwayfan1998 said:

Hey Guys, CBTC is currently in the Testing phase and equipment changes will be mate at a later unknown date according to NYCT Subway

the R46's are going to CI get over it, I don't like it either but some parts of Queens Blvd are gonna be cbtc active. hence why they're doing the swap.

Edited by R32 3838

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2 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

And why can't they push the R32's and R42's to Concourse for the (B) and send the R68's to the (Q) ?

from the rumors i heard they don't want them at CI plus it would make more sense for the (A) to loose some R46's rather than to loose the R32's since CI has to maintain another car type. If it were up to me 50 R32's and 50 R42's would go to CI for the (B) , 172 r32's would remain at 207th for (A)  and (C) service

Edited by R32 3838

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5 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

the R46's are going to CI get over it, I don't like it neither but some parts of Queens Blvd are gonna be cbtc active. hence why they're doing the swap.

CBTC in QBL would complete around 2021-2022? Then why does NYCT Subway says is currently is in the testing phase and equipment changes later then? Swapping MUST STOP!

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Just now, subwayfan1998 said:

CBTC in QBL would complete around 2021-2022? Then why does NYCT Subway says is currently is in the testing phase and equipment changes later then? Swapping MUST STOP!

its not gonna stop, I thought this was bullshit too but it is what it is. Most people aren't gonna mind the R46's and putting them on the (B) isn't gonna hurt. Im gonna miss riding these on the (F) and not gonna miss these on the (R).

and its only gonna be for 2-3 years, once the R211's start coming in, then thats when you'll see R160's make their way back to CI.

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Just now, R32 3838 said:

its not gonna stop, I thought this was bullshit too but it is what it is. Most people aren't gonna mind the R46's and putting them on the (B) isn't gonna hurt. Im gonna miss riding these on the (F) and not gonna miss these on the (R).

and its only gonna be for 2-3 years, once the R211's start coming in, then thats when you'll see R160's make their way back to CI.

R211s will be on line 2020-2025

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10 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

from the rumors i heard they don't want them at CI plus it would make more sense for the (A) to loose some R46's rather than to loose the R32's since CI has to maintain another car type. If it were up to me 50 R32's and 50 R42's would go to CI for the (B) , 172 r32's would remain at 207th for (A)  and (C) service

It’s more of because of how Montague doesn’t have enough clearance for the R32s. Plus, if the R32s were to be sent to CI, they would be restricted to the G as the other lines served are either potentially rerouted via Montague or running with CBTC on.

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5 minutes ago, mine248 said:

It’s more of because of how Montague doesn’t have enough clearance for the R32s. Plus, if the R32s were to be sent to CI, they would be restricted to the G as the other lines served are either potentially rerouted via Montague or running with CBTC on.

they can turn the train at Jay St since they redid the switches. ether way i doubt the R32's will ever leave 207th

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14 hours ago, NYCTNostalgia said:

This is probably totally inaccurate

I'm just trying to do some math there. According to Lance's 09/16/2019 Car assignments:

  • (F) uses 104-112 R46's
  • (R) uses 248 R46's

So I assume that 360 R46's (not including spares or extras for potential fleet expansion) are being transferred from Jamaica to Coney Island, roughly 45 sets.

  • (N)(W) uses 290 R160's (along with 24 R68's and 8 R68A's)
  • (Q) uses 210 R160's (along with 8 R68/A's during the PM Rush) 

Roughly 50 sets of R160's are at Coney, with a minimum of 45 being transferred to Jamaica.

Crap :(, not gonna lie. As a South Brooklyn commuter on the (B) and (Q) , I'm a little disappointed. A lot of R46's are pretty beat up and not a good look, especially if they're moved over to Brighton. I'd also miss those 46's on QBL. It's gonna be strange not to see them on the (F) or (R) . On the plus side though, I think that means we'll (Coney) get R211's starting next year 😁 (if delivery is on schedule of course). 

 

Thanks for reading my mindless ramble. Carry on 🤣

 

 

I’d imagine the R211s would directly replace the 207th R46s while they indirectly replace the CI ones by displacing Jamaica R160s.

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It literally makes no sense to send back Coney Island’s R160’s when the 211’s arrive. Nobody in car assignment said anything about that and I highly doubt that they have the budget or mental capacity to do such an unnecessary swap. That’s as asinine as for example; the A division getting R262’s and putting those new cars on the (7) and giving the (6) back it’s former R142A’s. 

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27 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

they can turn the train at Jay St since they redid the switches. ether way i doubt the R32's will ever leave 207th

And that would delay through southbound service. What happens if Broadway Express trains are rerouted via Montague in both directions instead of just one direction? Especially during rush hour. But yes, the R32s are not really going to leave 207th for reasons mention already by @mine248.

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On 12/4/2019 at 9:55 PM, Calvin said:

Since this is fleet swap,  the North Division (also known as IRT A Division) is staying silent with the swap of subway cars since all R62As from the Flushing line were sent to Pelham (with exception of extra single units) and R142As from Pelham were converted with CBTC on the Flushing line. Last year around October 2018.  Movements can occur during 2022 or just sets moving around time to time. 

Help me out here. The North Division ? I've never heard the IRT called that before . EVER . Has the division officially been renamed ? Just askin'. Carry on.

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2 hours ago, R68OnBroadway said:

I’d imagine the R211s would directly replace the 207th R46s while they indirectly replace the CI ones by displacing Jamaica R160s.

Wouldn’t it just be easier for the R211s to replace both the Pitkin/207th and the CI R46s directly? Why even send the R160s back to CI? Seems wasteful to have to spend all that time transferring so many subway cars back to their former yard after already sending them up there for CBTC operations on Queens Blvd. Just give those 211s to CI.

Edited by T to Dyre Avenue
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56 minutes ago, Trainmaster5 said:

Help me out here. The North Division ? I've never heard the IRT called that before . EVER . Has the division officially been renamed ? Just askin'. Carry on.

North Subdivision, I mean referenced from the TTMG subway roster

https://www.ttmg.org/insidersguide/new-york-mta-subway-roster-yard/

Edited by Calvin

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54 minutes ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

Wouldn’t it just be easier for the R211s to replace both the Pitkin/207th and the CI R46s directly? Why even send the R160s back to CI? Seems wasteful to have to spend all that time transferring so many subway cars back to their former yard after already sending them up there for CBTC operations on Queens Blvd. Just give those 211s to CI.

The (E)(F) need the R211s because the gangways and wider doors will allow for shorter dwell times on the jam-packed QBL.

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15 minutes ago, R68OnBroadway said:

The (E)(F) need the R211s because the gangways and wider doors will allow for shorter dwell times on the jam-packed QBL.

I love it when people keep saying give CI the R211's when Jamaica has to get em for the open gangway and mainly the wider doors. CI has gotten both the R68's and R160's brand new and first. CI would get the 211's too for the (Q) but pitkin and Jamaica getting them first.

Edited by R32 3838
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17 hours ago, Jemorie said:

My speculation is similar to yours in a way, but just in a more clearer detail. It is also based on the current number of trainsets operated on each line during rush hours. It took me a little bit to do the math on Google. Read very carefully below. If it's too complicated, I apologize in advance.

260 (E) R160 cars + 460 (F) R160 cars + 310 (R) R160 cars + 150 spare R160 trains (50 spare R160 trains for each line) = 1,180 R160 cars assigned to Jamaica; the remaining 110 R160s in 10-cars are left at CI for (Q) service (70 in service and 40 as spares)

70 (A) R32 cars + 72 (C) R32 cars + 80 spare R32 cars (40 for each line) = 222 R32 cars assigned to 207th.

72 (C) R179 cars + 80 (J)(Z) R179 cars + 36 spare R179 cars = 188 R179 four-car sets (92 assigned to 207th, the rest assigned to ENY)

80 (J)(Z) R160A-1 cars + 40 (L) R160A-1 cars + 192 (M) R160A-1 cars + 60 spare R160A-1 cars = All 372 R160A-1 cars still at ENY as they were before.

100 out of 130 R179 five-car sets assigned for (A) service out of 207th/Pitkin.

30 out of the 50 R42 cars moved from ENY to Pitkin/207th for (A) service. The remaining 20 stay at ENY as a reversed fleet for (J)(Z) service.

200 (B) R46 cars + 264 (N)(W) R46 cars + 80 spare R46 cars = 544 R46 cars total all assigned to CI; the rest of the R46 fleet remain at Pitkin for the (A) (160 cars) and Rockaway Park(S) (12 cars) + 34 spare cars. In total, that's 206 R46 cars assigned to Pitkin. So 544 + 206 = 750 R46 cars total.

Like @VIP stated, the Coney Island Assigned R46 would need to be solely on the (B) and (W) since they are weekday-only lines, allowing the R46 to get rest every night and every weekend with the exception of the ones on the full-time (N). Plus the electric side signs on the R46 make it easier for swapping trains at Astoria and the (B) has two different north terminals so there is no sign changing required.

288 R68 cars total assigned to Concourse for (D) service (240 in service and 48 as spares); the rest remain at CI, with a total of 137 R68 cars (52 in (G) service, 64 in (Q) service, and those 4 singles in Franklin Shuttle Service, and the rest as spares)

All 200 R68As remain at CI as before, with 56 in (Q) service and the rest as spares or reversed fleet.

All other car assignments are generally the same so I don't think I need to mention them here.

Phew.

Changes I would make:

 

All R68As (200 cars) and 24 R68 cars for the (Q) = 28 trains total and would allow for service increases.

56 R68 + 16 spares = 72 cars for the (G)

 

 

(A) - transfer R179s to Coney Island yard for the (N)(W) in exchange for 104 R46s

(N)(W) - 130 R179, 40 R160, 176 R46 cars (including spares) = 40 train sets total

(B) - 224 R46 + 32 R68 (including spares) = 32 train sets total

 

 

(A) - 312 R46 + 80 R32 (including spares)

(C) - 88 R179 + 136 R32 (including spares)

(S) (Rockaway) - 24 R46 + 12 Spares = 36 R46

 

 

Then when the R211s arrive:

R211A (no open gangway) = (A)(C), with R179s back to Pitkin

R211 open gangway = (E)(F), with 750 R160s to Coney Island Yard, and extra R211s in 5 car sets to the (A)(C) and 4-car units to the (C) or (M).

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1 hour ago, R32 3838 said:

I love it when people keep saying give CI the R211's when Jamaica has to get em for the open gangway and mainly the wider doors. CI has gotten both the R68's and R160's brand new and first. CI would get the 211's too for the (Q) but pitkin and Jamaica getting them first.

Fine by me if Pitkin and Jamaica get them first. Hey, then I can ride them on a semi-regular basis. I guess installing CBTC on QBL and being able to run more trains frequently than once every two minutes already isn’t going to be enough to handle (E)(F) crowds? And doesn’t the R211 base order call for only 20 open-gangway cars in order to test the feasibility of running open gangway cars?

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I remember this being brought up a lot, the MTA's end goal is uniformity in line fleets (which cannot be achieved until the full delivery of the R211s) so the best possible lineup once R211s are fully here would be

-R211: (E)(F)(R) maybe some others

-R179: (A)(C)(J)(Z)(M) and some others

-R160: CI Yard trains such as (N)(W)(G)(Q)(B) (and others)

-R68: (D) 

Edited by KK 6 Ave Local

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1 hour ago, Calvin said:

North Subdivision, I mean referenced from the TTMG subway roster

https://www.ttmg.org/insidersguide/new-york-mta-subway-roster-yard/

@TM5 my first time hearing this also.

I have no clue why that site refers to it as that however we officially don't refer to the A division as the northern division. We do have two 'districts' within the A div East side (3)(4)(6)  GC (S) and West side (1)(2)(5)(7) but that's mainly for job picking purposes. The B div does have a "North" district though. 

 

Drifting back to topic, just as I was thinking about drifting over to the B div to work the (N) & (Q) lines they want to put that junk back on those lines . Grrr

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