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Fleet Swap Discussion Thread

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6 hours ago, m2fwannabe said:

Not sure which board discussion this is meant for, but when those R211's DO begin to show up, the first priority is to RETIRE the R-32's from A and C as soon as possible.

By then they will be very close to an astounding 60 years of age...

Speaking of Auld Lang Syne!  The bagpipes are nigh for the R-32's.

 

It depends on how bad the rotting issues are on the first  group of R46's, a small batch was made with carbon steel frames and their starting to rot bad. its rumored that those will go first then the R32's then the good R46 batch. the only issue with the R46 rot issue is that good cars are mixed in with bad ones since they mixed them up during the renumbering and linking in 1995. plus we have the Staten Island R44's that are in terrible shape that might not make it to 2023.

 

3 hours ago, 4P3607 said:

Only 210 R32 cars are now active according to the TTMG roster. Did 12 get taken out of service at some point? 

 

It's rumored 10 cars were retired but i wouldn't be too sure on that, they have stripped cars before and threw em back in service. example 3476/77, was stripped then put back together.

 

 

BUT:

 

According to MTA documents, MTA slated to keep only 110 R32's after 2020. i don't know if they're still going with that plan but the way the R179's are dropping like flies, they might keep the majority of the fleet.

 

also you can kiss the R46's on the (C) good bye

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Yeah, the R46s are unfortunately no longer assigned to the (C), in part, because of what @Bill from Maspeth mention a little while ago about Euclid relay not having a track bed for T/Os to walk through to get to the other end of the train to take it back to Euclid station compared to the R32s and the NTTs. But it was fun while it lasted.

Edited by Jemorie
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I think the 32s will still retire first despite these rotting issues some 46s supposedly have. At this point the only thing in good shape about the 32s is their bodies, I seen 32s two to three cut out doors on one car, they don't stop smoothly, their MDBF is low and their A/C units break down a lot. I still like the 32s but they certainly have seen better days..

 

The rotting 46s can run a few extra months.. no biggie IMO. 

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1 hour ago, trainfan22 said:

I think the 32s will still retire first despite these rotting issues some 46s supposedly have. At this point the only thing in good shape about the 32s is their bodies, I seen 32s two to three cut out doors on one car, they don't stop smoothly, their MDBF is low and their A/C units break down a lot. I still like the 32s but they certainly have seen better days..

 

The rotting 46s can run a few extra months.. no biggie IMO. 

Body rot is a serious issue, if that were the case half the R44 fleet would still be here. All they have to do is move about 60-80 cars to Coney island. It's proven that when the R32's ran at ENY, they preformed better. Yes they need to go but it's not like they have a choice but to stay. 

 

Splitting the R32 fleet was better than having all of them at 207th. They were better off making the (C) 100% tech and leaving the R32's on the (J). 

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2 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

Body rot is a serious issue, if that were the case half the R44 fleet would still be here. All they have to do is move about 60-80 cars to Coney island. It's proven that when the R32's ran at ENY, they preformed better. Yes they need to go but it's not like they have a choice but to stay. 

 

Splitting the R32 fleet was better than having all of them at 207th. They were better off making the (C) 100% tech and leaving the R32's on the (J). 

Didn’t the MTA project that the R32’s would be retired starting in 2000? 
They have certainly lasted two more decades than expected and they are still going.  

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What did you guys continue to expect though in all honesty. The R32s are in their 50s so it’s not like their breakdown rates were any different when they were at ENY.

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25 minutes ago, Jemorie said:

What did you guys continue to expect though in all honesty. The R32s are in their 50s so it’s not like their breakdown rates were any different when they were at ENY.

It was a night and day difference when they were at ENY. I rode them daily on the (J) . They ran better and barely had hot cars compared to the (C). 207th is a garbage yard, even the R160's ran like dogshit when they had them. 

Edited by R32 3838
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33 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

It was a night and day difference when they were at ENY. I rode them daily on the (J) . They ran better and barely had hot cars compared to the (C). 207th is a garbage yard, even the R160's ran like dogshit when they had them. 

I would probably agree with the R160 part because of how dirty the exteriors on the cars looked when they operated on the (C), though I didn’t really rode them on the line as much compared to the R46 and R32.

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On 12/14/2019 at 3:06 PM, 4P3607 said:

Only 210 R32 cars are now active according to the TTMG roster. Did 12 get taken out of service at some point? 

Very possible.  Which ones are supposed to be lost?

I could provide the list of all 222 if that were needed.

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Back to the real world a little bit.

CBTC will begun overnights on December 23, I recall Jackson Hts to Continental (?) Local tracks.  No R-46 will be used overnights there.  I am vague on details Queems overnights I think just E and F?

The transfers would be 3 R-46 trains vs. 2 R160 trains each week through the 1Q of 2020.  Don't know fur sure when the second phase of Queens CBTC will be started but all equipment would all be CBTC enabled at that point (ca end of March).

If you guys want to follow the blow by blow each week feel free by all means, but we need both sides of the sum.

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On 12/14/2019 at 3:06 PM, 4P3607 said:

Only 210 R32 cars are now active according to the TTMG roster. Did 12 get taken out of service at some point? 

 

On 12/16/2019 at 11:03 AM, m2fwannabe said:

Very possible.  Which ones are supposed to be lost?

I could provide the list of all 222 if that were needed.

Seems like whoever made the TTMG roster doesn't know how to count. I added the cars up and got 216 cars, however the roster includes car 3629, which has been retired. So it only includes 215/222 active cars, not 210. The seven cars missing were: 3496-3497, 3669, 3706-3707, 3878-3879. Seems to me that they just made an error.

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1 hour ago, SimplyMyself said:

Seems like whoever made the TTMG roster doesn't know how to count. I added the cars up and got 216 cars, however the roster includes car 3629, which has been retired. So it only includes 215/222 active cars, not 210. The seven cars missing were: 3496-3497, 3669, 3706-3707, 3878-3879. Seems to me that they just made an error.

Not really, just numbers scrambled from the list (the error is the cause). Many units are scattered instead of order now except the 68/A, NTTs (5- car 160 Alstoms excluded). 

One of the R32s mentioned has the windows and roll-signs taken out. 

Edited by Calvin

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there's gonna be chunk of R32's going OOS between now and next year. after all there will be about 140-144 cars left, all 50 R42's and a chunk of r32'S ( SOME r32's will be parted out) will go into storage unless they need the cars until the R211 passes its test. this is just rumored as things can change. I really don't understand why they are they doing this when lines like the f**king (G) needs more cars. so We have to wait another 2-4 f**king years for better service because  (MTA) doesn't understand that all these areas in brooklyn are booming due to new buildings being built. the 1st R211 set will be in within months if not sooner, and they already want to take cars OOS.

Edited by R32 3838
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On 12/17/2019 at 1:22 PM, Calvin said:

Not really, just numbers scrambled from the list (the error is the cause). Many units are scattered instead of order now except the 68/A, NTTs (5- car 160 Alstoms excluded). 

One of the R32s mentioned has the windows and roll-signs taken out. 

I will look into the manner, but understand that the R-32's tend to be in and frequently pulled out of service, depending on the severity of how each car is misbehaving.

Its not unusual to find a particular car or pair set aside until repairs are effected, even across the longer term (months?).  When this happens, the cars which are long term held will often be cannibalized for necessary spare parts that might not otherwise now be available for an active R-32.  Windows, curtain signs, lights, even door operational hardware are some items which can go missing from a set of R-32's for a while, but they are restored as part of the longer term fixes.  I personally once a pair that started to be made ready for reefeing in 2008 but was saved back and is now back in service.  3586/3587 was sitting dark and seemed to be almost skeletal inside the (former) paint booth in the corner of 207 Street.

The point is, assume nothing by missing roll curtains, window glass or light bulbs.

As for the R-32 fleet being cut, DCE and the bean counters would love it but the lash spare factor of just above fleet half provides to cushion the continuously revolve door for their "reliability."  When the fleet is cut to whatever number is cut critically (peg a given number?) 110, 120, 140?  There seem to be around 120 R-32 cars still needed on both routes for consistent use each weekdays.  It isn't unusual for about 40 R-42's to be sidelined for some issue or other at the same time.  The spares keep getting burned quickly for unexpected issues that sometimes seem to happen by the hour.  Please understand that much of the electrical and mechanical nerve systems of the Phase I's are now over 30 years old and the redone framing was not intended to last that long as redone at M-K.

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14 minutes ago, m2fwannabe said:

I will look into the manner, but understand that the R-32's tend to be in and frequently pulled out of service, depending on the severity of how each car is misbehaving.

207th Street Yard only does what they feel is absolutely necessary in the barn, knowing the R32s won’t be around for long. That’s why the R32s are put-ins and limited on the (A), while the R46s and R179s get priority, yet the R32s run all day and evening long on the (C).

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Beside the point, there are few pointers that the MK R-42 are not now long for this world.  They have been just a whisper anyone since late summer.

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On 12/18/2019 at 9:38 PM, Jemorie said:

207th Street Yard only does what they feel is absolutely necessary in the barn, knowing the R32s won’t be around for long. That’s why the R32s are put-ins and limited on the (A), while the R46s and R179s get priority, yet the R32s run all day and evening long on the (C).

Incorrect. R32’s run as per Dispatcher discretion. There’s been 3 sets running on the (A)  religiously and one set or two running all day and night. 

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I'm hearing only 18 R42 cars are now active and none ran in service today except for one set in the AM rush. Is it safe to say those "rumors" were true and they are pretty much done for?

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2 hours ago, 4P3607 said:

I'm hearing only 18 R42 cars are now active and none ran in service today except for one set in the AM rush. Is it safe to say those "rumors" were true and they are pretty much done for?

No. It’s exactly what it is, Rumors. The R42 fleet isn’t being retired and will be utilized whenever necessary. 

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1 hour ago, VIP said:

No. It’s exactly what it is, Rumors. The R42 fleet isn’t being retired and will be utilized whenever necessary. 

So it must be a contingency fleet then?

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On 12/14/2019 at 6:30 PM, R32 3838 said:

...the first  group of R46's, a small batch was made with carbon steel frames and their starting to rot bad.

Citation? Not doubting you, but I’ve never heard of this.

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So there is no evidence yet that any of the 222 R-32's have been taken out of service.

Secondly, there are only 18 R-42's that have been living at ENY since the summer.  2 8-car trains (when needed) and one spare pair.  The 18 is frequently (weekly) changed around.

There are still 18 at ENY as of December 20, 2019 but whether there will be change-out from ENY to Pitkin (as usual) there is no way to know yet.

You'd have to check each consists every day to see if it keeps getting swapped around.  If they keep just using the same 18 and the other 32 are left (permanently?) at Pitkin may paint a different picture.

Good luck finding them regularly anyhow, usually two trains AM rush and one if that PM every weekday.

They MIGHT also still show up in weekends too (there was one on the road last Sunday, December 15).

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5 hours ago, m2fwannabe said:

So there is no evidence yet that any of the 222 R-32's have been taken out of service.

Secondly, there are only 18 R-42's that have been living at ENY since the summer.  2 8-car trains (when needed) and one spare pair.  The 18 is frequently (weekly) changed around.

There are still 18 at ENY as of December 20, 2019 but whether there will be change-out from ENY to Pitkin (as usual) there is no way to know yet.

You'd have to check each consists every day to see if it keeps getting swapped around.  If they keep just using the same 18 and the other 32 are left (permanently?) at Pitkin may paint a different picture.

Good luck finding them regularly anyhow, usually two trains AM rush and one if that PM every weekday.

They MIGHT also still show up in weekends too (there was one on the road last Sunday, December 15).

I saw two sets of R42 heading to Board St on Wednesday PM rush. One showed up as (J) and the other one showed up as (Z) . 

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OK we have some news here!  These 24 MK R-42s have been RETIRED as of today (December 21):

4792/3, 4800-3, 4808/9, 4812-5, 4820-3, 4826-9, 4836-9 (all laid up at Pitkin indefinitely).

One 8-car train 4824/25-4831/30-4816/17-4799/98 was the only train in passenger service on Friday AM (December 20).  No trains ran on Friday PM.  (That's 32).

One more 8-car consist is still available (not in order 4796/7, 4804-7, 4832/3), plus six more for revenue spares.   (That's 46).

4 were held for repair on December 20,  (That's 50).

There may be R-42 trains again this coming week but maybe not.  Lets see.  This could be IT!!

Like I said last week, "Sing for Alud Lang Syne."

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11 hours ago, m2fwannabe said:

So there is no evidence yet that any of the 222 R-32's have been taken out of service.

Secondly, there are only 18 R-42's that have been living at ENY since the summer.  2 8-car trains (when needed) and one spare pair.  The 18 is frequently (weekly) changed around.

There are still 18 at ENY as of December 20, 2019 but whether there will be change-out from ENY to Pitkin (as usual) there is no way to know yet.

You'd have to check each consists every day to see if it keeps getting swapped around.  If they keep just using the same 18 and the other 32 are left (permanently?) at Pitkin may paint a different picture.

Good luck finding them regularly anyhow, usually two trains AM rush and one if that PM every weekday.

They MIGHT also still show up in weekends too (there was one on the road last Sunday, December 15).

3878/79 has been oos for almost 2 years. I have no idea what they're gonna do with it. It was stripped not completely though

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