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Fleet Swap Discussion Thread

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1 hour ago, R32 3838 said:

well you have 100 R46's with rotting frames that are mixed up in different 4 car sets

Again, I have never heard of this anywhere else. Source?

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First group of R46's, it has been said to be 100 cars were built with regular steel frames vs stainless steel frames. 

 

I didn't believe this ether since I actually like the R46's 

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5 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

First group of R46's, it has been said to be 100 cars were built with regular steel frames vs stainless steel frames. 

 

I didn't believe this ether since I actually like the R46's 

Yes I know, the first time this was posted here I asked for a source. Hence why I said "again"

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13 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

First group of R46's, it has been said to be 100 cars were built with regular steel frames vs stainless steel frames. 

I didn't believe this ether since I actually like the R46's 

Don't believe that's true. The only carbon steel on the R46s is the end bonnet. The sort of steel that can and will rot and rust is carbon steel. On the R44s, the chassis and side bands were carbon steel and stainless sections were welded on. The bands were painted over initially, but you were able to see the difference in material types after GOH and the removal of the stripes. You can tell carbon steel visually – R42s have a carbon steel chassis. SIRTOA R44s have had the carbon bands replaced with stainless (not sure about the underbody). The R46 structure is entirely stainless steel, none of the shotwelding of the R44s. Frame rot should not be an issue beyond the bonnets. 

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Wouldn't you see the difference between carbon steel and stainless steel visually? I feel like that would be something easy to spot unless its the under body or something like that.

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^ See above! If it's unpainted, it's visible to the eye. This is also part of why the scrapping program is limited to carbon steel cars. 

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The type of metal used for the frame would not be visible. Despite their stainless steel carbodies, the R38, R40, R42, and R44 used LAHT carbon steel for their frames. The SI R44s are structurally the same as the NYCT ones, the frame rot was not as bad because the NYCT ones were hit much worse during the graffiti years and got lots of acid baths. They also ran on the A for most of their service lives and were exposed to a lot of salt water spray out in the Rockaways.

Edited by Amtrak706

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10 hours ago, Ultimategamer12c said:

Hmmmmm a Rumor of the R32s hitting (J) and (Z)👀👀 kinda makes sense I can see this happening  again where the MTA has this happens but I'll just have to wait and see.

That rumor comes from this site.  Let's not get NYCT involved in this.

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9 hours ago, Amtrak706 said:

The type of metal used for the frame would not be visible. Despite their stainless steel carbodies, the R38, R40, R42, and R44 used LAHT carbon steel for their frames. The SI R44s are structurally the same as the NYCT ones, the frame rot was not as bad because the NYCT ones were hit much worse during the graffiti years and got lots of acid baths. They also ran on the A for most of their service lives and were exposed to a lot of salt water spray out in the Rockaways.

Right, as in my earlier post – but as far as I'm aware the only carbon steel on the R46 is its bonnet. I don't think it has the same shotwelding-mixture as the 44s, nor the same LAHT frames as the others. After the 46 class, fiberglass was used for all the new bonnets.

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Better get your last R32 rides on the (A) and (C) line because soon come February they're leaving 8th ave. According to a rumor I'm hearing from multiple people 

Makes sense the R32's from the (C) goes back to ENY

 

The R32's from the (A) goes too well it's a very obvious guess 

 

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

Better get your last R32 rides on the (A) and (C) line because soon come February they're leaving 8th ave. According to a rumor I'm hearing from multiple people 

Makes sense the R32's from the (C) goes back to ENY

 

The R32's from the (A) goes too well it's a very obvious guess 

 

An R32 swap between 207 and ENY would only result in a loss in cars, and is utterly pointless.

1) ENY just went 100% NTT, you think that they want the older trains back?

2) The 100 R179s on the (J)(Z) would trade for the (supposed 142?) R32s. The 32s are utilized by the (A)(C). By ENY giving their 179s to 207, they’ll only be used on the (C), because they’re four-car sets. The (A) would lose some cars, since they use some 32s. (The 32s are interchangeable between the (A)(C), but not the 179s).

3) If the (C) is going to go full-length with the 211s, they would need to bump the four-car sets off the (C) to most likely ENY, ultimately doing another swap.

4) Maybe the (J)(Z) has a large outdoor section, but they still run 24/7. With the supposed 142 cars, you’re bound to have some sets running on weekends and late nights. At least the (C) the 32s can rest during late nights.

It would be for the best to retire the 32s, with 211s at 207, as it would be convenient, but more beneficial.

Edited by SimplyMyself

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48 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

Better get your last R32 rides on the (A) and (C) line because soon come February they're leaving 8th ave. According to a rumor I'm hearing from multiple people 

Makes sense the R32's from the (C) goes back to ENY

 

The R32's from the (A) goes too well it's a very obvious guess 

 

I wish the R179s and the rest of the NTT’s were made with the flexibility that the older cars have in terms of being able to create different train lengths. Look how easy it is for an R32 to be configured in a 4 car set to a 5 car set. It doesn’t seem like the new trains have that ability. 

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4 minutes ago, SimplyMyself said:

An R32 swap between 207 and ENY would only result in a loss in cars, and is utterly pointless.

1) ENY just went 100% NTT, you think that they want the older trains back?

2) The 100 R179s on the (J)(Z) would trade for the (supposed 142?) R32s. The 32s are utilized by the (A)(C). By ENY giving their 179s to 207, they’ll only be used on the (C), because they’re four-car sets. The (A) would lose some cars, since they use some 32s. (The 32s are interchangeable between the (A)(C), but not the 179s).

3) If the (C) is going to go full-length with the 211s, they would need to bump the four-car sets off the (C) to most likely ENY, ultimately doing another swap.

4) Maybe the (J)(Z) has a large outdoor section, but they still run 24/7. With the supposed 142 cars, you’re bound to have some sets running on weekends and late nights. At least the (C) the 32s can rest during late nights.

It would be for the best to retire the 32s, with 211s at 207, as it would be convenient, but more beneficial.

This whole CBTC fleet swap is pointless. It would have been better for then to delay the project until the R211's came in or ordered more R179's units as an option order (if there even is one.) All this is going to do is just bring the transferred fleets back to the original yard in the next year or so.

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8 minutes ago, SimplyMyself said:

An R32 swap between 207 and ENY would only result in a loss in cars, and is utterly pointless.

1) ENY just went 100% NTT, you think that they want the older trains back?

2) The 100 R179s on the (J)(Z) would trade for the (supposed 142?) R32s. The 32s are utilized by the (A)(C). By ENY giving their 179s to 207, they’ll only be used on the (C), because they’re four-car sets. The (A) would lose some cars, since they use some 32s. (The 32s are interchangeable between the (A)(C), but not the 179s).

3) If the (C) is going to go full-length with the 211s, they would need to bump the four-car sets off the (C) to most likely ENY, ultimately doing another swap.

4) Maybe the (J)(Z) has a large outdoor section, but they still run 24/7. With the supposed 142 cars, you’re bound to have some sets running on weekends and late nights. At least the (C) the 32s can rest during late nights.

It would be for the best to retire the 32s, with 211s at 207, as it would be convenient, but more beneficial.

They're keeping the whole R32 fleet, 

So you'll have 218 cars that would be split between 2 yards. 

8th ave is getting cbtc work done, for some odd reason the R32's would be in the way which doesn't make sense.

 

The only thing that makes sense is the (C) becoming all R179 with the (J) getting 110 R32's in return.

The R179's still need to have their problems fixed, makes since to have them all at 207th since it's a main shop and they can fix the major issues there.

 

Now for the (A) loosing it's R32's, it doesn't make sense, and I'm hoping this is just a rumor but that half will go to Coney island 

 

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54 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

They're keeping the whole R32 fleet, 

So you'll have 218 cars that would be split between 2 yards. 

8th ave is getting cbtc work done, for some odd reason the R32's would be in the way which doesn't make sense.

 

The only thing that makes sense is the (C) becoming all R179 with the (J) getting 110 R32's in return.

The R179's still need to have their problems fixed, makes since to have them all at 207th since it's a main shop and they can fix the major issues there.

 

Now for the (A) loosing it's R32's, it doesn't make sense, and I'm hoping this is just a rumor but that half will go to Coney island 

 

You really enjoy playing two sides of the fence huh? 😂 YOU were the one trolling around saying that they SHOULD send the 32’s to Coney Island because YOU and a few others want to see R32 (B) and (G) trains... now all of a sudden

“Now for the (A) loosing it's R32's, it doesn't make sense, and I'm hoping this is just a rumor but that half will go to Coney island” OK and as far as East New York losing it’s oddball fleet to 207th... the decision hasn’t been made and it was an Idea to house all R179’s at one barn instead of three. Doesn’t mean they’re going to make car equipment transfers. You keep resurrecting rumors and start piss wars with these train buffs/rail fans on here. Chill out. I’m on to you. Just like that BS “R46 rotting” rumor... you stated that you dislike the cars months ago, now when someone here calls you out on that bogus rumor, oh you hope the rumors aren’t true because you like the cars... OK, Carry on though. 

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Posted (edited)

Great, the entire (J) line gotta be shitty again with R32's return. The Bway Junt-Crescent St-Woodhaven Blvd express gotta be returned as well(If you are a (J) rider, you know what I am talking about.)

BTW, I dont think 8ave CBTC will be finished/activated before MTA has enough R211s to replace all the R46s which we are not going to see in at least  two years.  So I dont see the points of swap.

Edited by whz1995
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, VIP said:

You really enjoy playing two sides of the fence huh? 😂 YOU were the one trolling around saying that they SHOULD send the 32’s to Coney Island because YOU and a few others want to see R32 (B) and (G) trains... now all of a sudden

“Now for the (A) loosing it's R32's, it doesn't make sense, and I'm hoping this is just a rumor but that half will go to Coney island” OK and as far as East New York losing it’s oddball fleet to 207th... the decision hasn’t been made and it was an Idea to house all R179’s at one barn instead of three. Doesn’t mean they’re going to make car equipment transfers. You keep resurrecting rumors and start piss wars with these train buffs/rail fans on here. Chill out. I’m on to you. Just like that BS “R46 rotting” rumor... you stated that you dislike the cars months ago, now when someone here calls you out on that bogus rumor, oh you hope the rumors aren’t true because you like the cars... OK, Carry on though. 

I have never said I hate the R46's

I said I hate them on the (A) .

 

It's funny because 10 years ago I said the R32's were staying and the R44's were going. Everyone one here attacked me for it, and boom the R44's were gone.

 

I said the R32's were going to the (J) everyone here attacked me for it again , in 2013 they sent an R32 to ENY and in 2015 they made it permanent.

 

This isn't to start some foamer war, you got R32's that have hvac issues and R179 with major teething issues. It makes sense to to send the R32's back to ENY and to make the R179's go to the (C) making it 100% Tech so 207th main shop can troubleshoot the major issues.

 

Now for CI getting the R32's, this I rather not happen, but the powers to be want to push cbtc on 8th ave (cbtc work to start soon) which I don't understand why when there isn't enough tech trains to cover the (A). 

 

All I'm doing is sharing information from various sources. Like other people on here.

 

You always come at me and a few others hard like we attacked you or some shit.

As for the R46's with rot, this was told to me from various sources and even if it were to be true it would not effect the whole entire fleet since there's only a very small portion that were built differently from the rest.

Edited by R32 3838

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, SimplyMyself said:

An R32 swap between 207 and ENY would only result in a loss in cars, and is utterly pointless.

1) ENY just went 100% NTT, you think that they want the older trains back?

2) The 100 R179s on the (J)(Z) would trade for the (supposed 142?) R32s. The 32s are utilized by the (A)(C). By ENY giving their 179s to 207, they’ll only be used on the (C), because they’re four-car sets. The (A) would lose some cars, since they use some 32s. (The 32s are interchangeable between the (A)(C), but not the 179s).

3) If the (C) is going to go full-length with the 211s, they would need to bump the four-car sets off the (C) to most likely ENY, ultimately doing another swap.

4) Maybe the (J)(Z) has a large outdoor section, but they still run 24/7. With the supposed 142 cars, you’re bound to have some sets running on weekends and late nights. At least the (C) the 32s can rest during late nights.

It would be for the best to retire the 32s, with 211s at 207, as it would be convenient, but more beneficial.

The (A) is better though because the other half of its fleet would still be either R46 or those five-car R179s or both. This means the R32s can operate at any given time on the (A) as per the dispatcher and the R32s would still have a decent spare ratio too. Remember, trains that get taken out of service are usually those that fall into an accordance to a scheduled layup or requested by the barn for inspection. Honestly, the (A)(C) Summer Swap back in 2011 and 2012 should have been permanent. Unfortunately, because of Euclid lacking any track bed for T/Os to walk to the other end of the train to take it back north, they have no choice but to spend more money on two T/Os on both ends of the train at Euclid due to the R46s' end doors being locked, forcing the (A)(C) Summer Swap to be permanently discontinued for good. The (J)(Z) is good for the R32s too. However, ENY just became 100% NTTs for the first time following the R42s' most recent retirement. This constant swapping of car fleets back and fourth (in general) honestly needs to end sooner or later. It's really not worth the time and money for crews to be moving trains back and fourth like this every time. This is what happens when the (MTA) does not have a plan B up their sleeves. Like in 2010 when they went scrap happy till they estimated that the mainline R44s needed to be prematurely retired due to their carbon steel on the frames rotting compared to the R32s' pure stainless steel bodies and those (now-retired) 50 R42s needing to stay due to the (M) / (V) combo, forcing the (M) into requiring slightly more trains than it previous did with its old Nassau Street/4 Avenue Local/West End route. It's also why the R42s never once ran on regular (M) service on weekends (outside of (L)-related GOs) too due to the agency wanting to save money with OPTO.

Edited by Jemorie

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Jemorie said:

The (A) is better though because the other half of its fleet would still be either R46 or those five-car R179s or both. This means the R32s can operate at any given time on the (A) as per the dispatcher and the R32s would still have a decent spare ratio too. Remember, trains that get taken out of service are usually those that fall into an accordance to a scheduled layup or requested by the barn for inspection. Honestly, the (A)(C) Summer Swap back in 2011 and 2012 should have been permanent. Unfortunately, because of Euclid lacking any track bed for T/Os to walk to the other end of the train to take it back north, they have no choice but to spend more money on two T/Os on both ends of the train at Euclid due to the R46s' end doors being locked, forcing the (A)(C) Summer Swap to be permanently discontinued for good. The (J)(Z) is good for the R32s too. However, ENY just became 100% NTTs for the first time following the R42s' most recent retirement. This constant swapping of car fleets back and fourth (in general) honestly needs to end sooner or later. It's really not worth the time and money for crews to be moving trains back and fourth like this every time. This is what happens when the (MTA) does not have a plan B up their sleeves. Like in 2010 when they went scrap happy till they estimated that the mainline R44s needed to be prematurely retired due to their carbon steel on the frames rotting compared to the R32s' pure stainless steel bodies and those (now-retired) 50 R42s needing to stay due to the (M) / (V) combo, forcing the (M) into requiring slightly more trains than it previous did with its old Nassau Street/4 Avenue Local/West End route. It's also why the R42s never once ran on regular (M) service on weekends (outside of (L)-related GOs) too due to the agency wanting to save money with OPTO.

I honestly prefer the (A) to keep half the R32 fleet, it's just simple. The R32's are also good for the (J) and (Z) and with the R42's now gone it would even be better since most of those R32's would be lay ups.

Edited by R32 3838

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1 hour ago, whz1995 said:

Great, the entire (J) line gotta be shitty again with R32's return. The Bway Junt-Crescent St-Woodhaven Blvd express gotta be returned as well(If you are a (J) rider, you know what I am talking about.)

Man those skips were pure comedy

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20 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

Man those skips were pure comedy

It won't be as bad since there's no more R42's. So six R32's would be Z trains alone.

 

I'm not gonna lie though, I miss seeing (Z) trains at 2am lmao 

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26 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

It won't be as bad since there's no more R42's. So six R32's would be Z trains alone.

Eh, the R42s retired won't make a difference. It also depends on how many R32s would be assigned back to ENY if your rumor is true.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

I honestly prefer the (A) to keep half the R32 fleet, it's just simple. The R32's are also good for the (J) and (Z) and with the R42's now gone it would even be better since most of those R32's would be lay ups.

How do you know If the Dispatcher will lay up most of the 32’s?  They may keep them running all day and night... 

Edited by VIP

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