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Fleet Swap Discussion Thread


INDman

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6 hours ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

They will not get crowded till September again.  The J/Z is running full service, the extra cars come from the L.  The L can get away with less than a 4 minute headway till school re-starts.  It's the summer.  Riders are swearing off the subway, will not ride; riders will be working from home; riders are on vacation, school's out for summer; most likely tourist attractions are closed for the summer  I have no doubt the R179's will be back by Labor Day.

It's probably standing room only for social distancing purposes.  Some will not sit directly next to someone else.  Riding the subway guarantees a ride, not a seat.

I hate to say it but When I rode the system during the first 4 days of Phase 1 the trains were semi packed, The (A)(J) and (L) lines had a good portion of people standing. I was surprised by the (L) being SRO but by Phase 2, you will see some type of crowding as more people are going to work. The whole point was to run the system at atleast 90% so people can spread out. Also all the seats were taken, The ridership might not be as high as it would be normally but its getting to the point where it's gonna become hard to socially distance from other people. Lines like the (C)  were empty the whole day. after 8:30am trains were very lite, but that will change on monday as more restrictions are lifted.

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1 hour ago, AlgorithmOfTruth said:

Negative. The (B)'s R68A's sometimes appear on the (D) from time to time. It's not unheard of.

 

36 minutes ago, 1998NewFlyer said:

That's false I've seen the r68A on the D train it's very rear but I've just seen that last month 

It does happen occasionally if Concourse doesn't have any R68s left at the yard due to mechanical problems. 

Edited by Calvin
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2 hours ago, happy283 said:

With phase 2 set for monday, is there any chance the union will approve the use of the R32 for service?

What will likely happen is an overall reduction of service in the B-Division to avoid use of the R32s.

 

Example:

Rush Hours:

(A) trains would likely lose the Rockaway Park Rush Hour Specials

(B) trains would run every 7-8 minutes instead of every 6 minutes in the peak direction

(C) trains would run every 12 minutes all day

(D) trains would run every 8 minutes instead of every 6 minutes

(E) trains would not run their 179 St Rush hour service.

(F) trains would run every 8 minutes all day (until the Kings Highway switches are ready for service), then every 5-6 minutes

(L) trains would run every 4 minutes instead of every 3 minutes.

(M) trains would run every 8 minutes instead of every 6 minutes

(N) trains would run every 8 minutes instead of every 6 minutes

(R) trains run every 8 minutes instead of every 6 minutes

 

Middays:

The (B) (C) (D)(N) (R)(W) would be reduced to every 12 minutes

The (L) would run every 8-10 minutes instead of every 5 minutes

The (E)(F) trains would run every 8 minutes instead of every 6-7 minutes

 

the reductions would increase the spare factor needed while the R179s remain out of service, but maintain about 85-90% of the normal rush hour service. In addition, I would recommend the following yard shuffles:

100 R160B from Jamaica to Coney Island

120 R46 from Coney Island to Pitkin

Then we don't have to worry about transporting R160s from Pitkin to Jamaica or Coney Island for maintenance due to Pitkin's inability to maintain the R160s. 

 

Edited by darkstar8983
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1 hour ago, darkstar8983 said:

What will likely happen is an overall reduction of service in the B-Division to avoid use of the R32s.

 

Example:

Rush Hours:

(A) trains would likely lose the Rockaway Park Rush Hour Specials

(B) trains would run every 7-8 minutes instead of every 6 minutes in the peak direction

(C) trains would run every 12 minutes all day

(D) trains would run every 8 minutes instead of every 6 minutes

(E) trains would not run their 179 St Rush hour service.

(F) trains would run every 8 minutes all day (until the Kings Highway switches are ready for service), then every 5-6 minutes

(L) trains would run every 4 minutes instead of every 3 minutes.

(M) trains would run every 8 minutes instead of every 6 minutes

(N) trains would run every 8 minutes instead of every 6 minutes

(R) trains run every 8 minutes instead of every 6 minutes

 

Middays:

The (B) (C) (D)(N) (R)(W) would be reduced to every 12 minutes

The (L) would run every 8-10 minutes instead of every 5 minutes

The (E)(F) trains would run every 8 minutes instead of every 6-7 minutes

 

the reductions would increase the spare factor needed while the R179s remain out of service, but maintain about 85-90% of the normal rush hour service. In addition, I would recommend the following yard shuffles:

100 R160B from Jamaica to Coney Island

120 R46 from Coney Island to Pitkin

Then we don't have to worry about transporting R160s from Pitkin to Jamaica or Coney Island for maintenance due to Pitkin's inability to maintain the R160s. 

 

 

Its better to keep the R160's on the (A) and they will still need some type of equipment, CI still has to maintain those R46's.

 

the only lines effected is the (J)(Z) . If you increase service on the (L)(M) lines. They will still need about 2-3 sets Of R32's to cover the void. If the (J) continue to use the cars from the (L) and (M) lines, those 2 lines would not have any spares. plus the (C) still uses the 2 R160's from ENY. This is why they only sent the R32's to ENY since 50% of the (J) line is R179's so they can cover for the loss of R179's.

 

the rest of the B division can borrow and manage, Its the eastern division that has the biggest blow.

 

Also It would be very stupid the reduce service when more people are going to work during Phase 2, This would have been good for phase 1 but now that phase 2 is happening this monday, That would be very dumb .

Edited by R32 3838
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2 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

I really doubt they are gonna take away service they just added back because they don't want to run old cars. If anyone all services will remain the same as it has these last two weeks.

them keeping the same service isn't gonna work, More people will ride the train since more jobs are opening on monday meaning 75-80% of them will use mass transit. People are already complaining about long wait times and semi crowded trains.

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2 hours ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

With the L not on its' regular 4 minute headway rush hour schedule, the R32's are not needed yet. 

The extra cars are running on the J/Z.

I mean will the (L) increase for phase 2? There have been reports of the (L) being standing room only and ridership is expected to increase monday.

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8 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

What will likely happen is an overall reduction of service in the B-Division to avoid use of the R32s.

 

Example:

Rush Hours:

(A) trains would likely lose the Rockaway Park Rush Hour Specials

(B) trains would run every 7-8 minutes instead of every 6 minutes in the peak direction

(C) trains would run every 12 minutes all day

(D) trains would run every 8 minutes instead of every 6 minutes

(E) trains would not run their 179 St Rush hour service.

(F) trains would run every 8 minutes all day (until the Kings Highway switches are ready for service), then every 5-6 minutes

(L) trains would run every 4 minutes instead of every 3 minutes.

(M) trains would run every 8 minutes instead of every 6 minutes

(N) trains would run every 8 minutes instead of every 6 minutes

(R) trains run every 8 minutes instead of every 6 minutes

 

Middays:

The (B) (C) (D)(N) (R)(W) would be reduced to every 12 minutes

The (L) would run every 8-10 minutes instead of every 5 minutes

The (E)(F) trains would run every 8 minutes instead of every 6-7 minutes

All of that really isnt necessary. Here are some very minor changes instead that can help with ENY and Pitkin/207 fleet shortage

(B) No Bronx Service. Every 10 minutes. Replaced by (D) service running Local above 145 St

(N)(R) No Second avenue Service

(W) 12 Minute headways all day

With these changes 207 can send their 2 8-car sets of R160s back to ENY and can get 4-5 R46 or R68A sets from CI to operate on (C) service. It may even be enough to resume regular 10 minute headways on the (C) and increase the (L)

Edited by happy283
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8658-8667, 8688-8692, 8708-8712, 8723-8727, 8858-8862, 8878-8882, 8888-8897, 8953-8962, 8993-8997, 9003-9007, 9013-9022, 9113-9117, 9128-9132, 9163-9167, 9198-9202, 9223-9227, 9268-9272, 9328-9332, 9408-9412, 9423-9427, 9453-9462, 9503-9507, 9533-9537, 9628-9632, 9673-9677, 9688-9692, 9728-9732, 9738-9742, 9818-9822, 9843-9847, 9853-9857, 9873-9877, 9903-9907

190 cars. 19 trains loaned to pitkin for (A) service. Quote me if there any sets I left out or with any new sightings.

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1 hour ago, happy283 said:

All of that really isnt necessary. Here are some very minor changes instead that can help with ENY and Pitkin/207 fleet shortage

(B) No Bronx Service. Every 10 minutes. Replaced by (D) service running Local above 145 St

(N)(R) No Second avenue Service

(W) 12 Minute headways all day

With these changes 207 can send their 2 8-car sets of R160s back to ENY and can get 4-5 R46 or R68A sets from CI to operate on (C) service. It may even be enough to resume regular 10 minute headways on the (C) and increase the (L)

That means you’re cutting Concourse Service during rush hours by 40%. I used my service reduction design to just spread the pain out a little bit. But then again I don’t know how crowded the (B) from the Bronx would get. Although from Brooklyn it gets pretty bad.

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8 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

I really doubt they are gonna take away service they just added back because they don't want to run old cars. If anyone all services will remain the same as it has these last two weeks.

I have nothing personal against the R32s. I would also love to see them back in service. But I’m not sure as to the real reason why the MTA and the union are against putting those cars into service. I imagine it’s due to the half-cab safety issues. But I could be wrong.

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1 hour ago, darkstar8983 said:

That means you’re cutting Concourse Service during rush hours by 40%. I used my service reduction design to just spread the pain out a little bit. But then again I don’t know how crowded the (B) from the Bronx would get. Although from Brooklyn it gets pretty bad.

Well your reductions were more than what was needed. All you need is to cut enough to free up 4-5 extra trains. With the (D) running every 6 minutes it should be fine. There is also the Jerome Av line not to far away.

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1 hour ago, darkstar8983 said:

But I’m not sure as to the real reason why the MTA and the union are against putting those cars into service. I imagine it’s due to the half-cab safety issues. But I could be wrong.

You are exactly right, the union doesnt want conductors switching cabs throughout the trip. What I dont get is why ENY sent R160s up to 207 in return for R32s they cant use.

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1 hour ago, happy283 said:

You are exactly right, the union doesnt want conductors switching cabs throughout the trip. What I dont get is why ENY sent R160s up to 207 in return for R32s they cant use.

My guess is that if the R32s are needed for use, the TA would prefer them on the outdoor lines for the AC issues. There's a nonzero chance they need the cars if/when equipment requirements change, and they'd probably prefer starting them out on the J/Z.

1 hour ago, happy283 said:

Just wondering could a 6 car R46 train run on the (J)

No, the issue is not length of consist on the Broadway-Jamaica el but tightness of the curves. In fact, just during this transfer 10-car sets of R32s were sent to ENY yard directly from A service. The issue is that the longer cars will swing out on a turn, and they can graze other trains during the process. You could possibly run an R46 set out as far Myrtle or so (it's happened for a fan trip), but only if you were sure that no other trains were passing, and there's no way you could clear the curves out by Crescent and Cypress. 67 feet is the longest that works, and even that only worked with the unusual truck spacing of the BMT. I'm not even 100% sure the R110Bs would have fit on those els. Would have to check the truck spacing.

Edited by MHV9218
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16 minutes ago, MHV9218 said:

My guess is that if the R32s are needed for use, the TA would prefer them on the outdoor lines for the AC issues. There's a nonzero chance they need the cars if/when equipment requirements change, and they'd probably prefer starting them out on the J/Z.

No, the issue is not length of consist on the Broadway-Jamaica el but tightness of the curves. In fact, just during this transfer 10-car sets of R32s were sent to ENY yard directly from A service. The issue is that the longer cars will swing out on a turn, and they can graze other trains during the process. You could possibly run an R46 set out as far Myrtle or so (it's happened for a fan trip), but only if you were sure that no other trains were passing, and there's no way you could clear the curves out by Crescent and Cypress. 67 feet is the longest that works, and even that only worked with the unusual truck spacing of the BMT. I'm not even 100% sure the R110Bs would have fit on those els. Would have to check the truck spacing.

I recall seeing a photo of R44s at Fresh Pond Road from the 1970s when they were testing the cars.

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The R32s are retired and are NOT coming out to play. Sorry to get your hopes up (including mine, since I told my boss I was gonna take one for a joyride).

Trains will be running normal, with some adjustments since the junkboxes, er, 179s, are having their lemon issues (again). 

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14 hours ago, happy283 said:

I mean will the (L) increase for phase 2? There have been reports of the (L) being standing room only and ridership is expected to increase monday.

I doubt it, but if ridership does increase that's always subject to change. I was just on the (L) yesterday during rush; and was still relatively empty. 

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