Fleet Swap Discussion Thread

[MHV9218]

I think the most important variable here – which the MTA cannot account for, which is why the 32s have been moved into position just in case – is public perception. If Phase 2 brings crowds and people feel that the trains are hazardously packed, the MTA will be under intense pressure (specifically from the governor's office) to decrease headways and reduce crowding. Should that need to happen, there is quite literally no way to run the railroad without any R179s or R32s in service. However, this is all contingent on those questions: how many people will return to the trains, and how much will MTA need to adjust service? If the answers are not many, and not much, then the current status quo will be fine, with plenty of R160s at Pitkin and both 179 and 32s removed from service. 

[R32 3838]

1 hour ago, MHV9218 said:

I think the most important variable here – which the MTA cannot account for, which is why the 32s have been moved into position just in case – is public perception. If Phase 2 brings crowds and people feel that the trains are hazardously packed, the MTA will be under intense pressure (specifically from the governor's office) to decrease headways and reduce crowding. Should that need to happen, there is quite literally no way to run the railroad without any R179s or R32s in service. However, this is all contingent on those questions: how many people will return to the trains, and how much will MTA need to adjust service? If the answers are not many, and not much, then the current status quo will be fine, with plenty of R160s at Pitkin and both 179 and 32s removed from service. 

The first few days of phase 1 i rode the system and the was SRO in every car from about the start of the am rush until about 8:30AM the was SRO in the last 6 cars but after Bway Jct it gets empty and the had SRO in every car during the pm rush around 5pm. Once phase 2 starts the ridership will increase, Not to normal levels but enough where trains will be crowded on certain lines with the current supplemental service. Everyone think that trains are empty most of the time but their not, I thought the would be empty since most of those people west of Myrtle are ether doing work at home or moved out.

I did this to see if i should start doing deliveries again but this week im gonna check the system out again to see if how it is.

people are already complaining about the long waits on lines like the and some people about overcrowding on other lines.

Office Jobs and eatery's (Outdoor Dining) are opening monday as well as other Businesses like barber shops and etc. That is a large chunk of ridership right there plus retail will start letting people shop inside the stores. so that's more people right there. Now more non working people will use mass transit (not all) but a decent amount. This would lead to higher ridership, The having R46's is a good thing since it would allow for social distancing and plus the   has been empty with about 3-8 people per car.

 

It's ether they gonna force the R179's back in service with defects or they gonna force the R32's to go back into service. The mainline B division is fine since there's a surplus of cars from the   until September, But the Eastern Division Is the one hurting for cars, hence why the R32's were sent there in the first place. The only reason why the are fine as of now is because the is on a 7 min headway so the took more 143's from and some 160's from the to cover the loss of the 179's.

Edited June 20, 2020 by R32 3838

[happy283]

40 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

The having R46's is a good thing since it would allow for social distancing and plus the   has been empty with about 3-8 people per car.

If thats the case, then they should send the 8 car R160s back to ENY to help increase fleet availability for ENY lines.

[T J Trainman]

13 hours ago, happy283 said:

8658-8667, 8688-8692, 8708-8712, 8723-8727, 8858-8862, 8878-8882, 8888-8897, 8953-8962, 8993-8997, 9003-9007, 9013-9022, 9113-9117, 9128-9132, 9163-9167, 9198-9202, 9223-9227, 9268-9272, 9328-9332, 9408-9412, 9423-9427, 9453-9462, 9503-9507, 9533-9537, 9628-9632, 9673-9677, 9688-9692, 9728-9732, 9738-9742, 9818-9822, 9843-9847, 9853-9857, 9873-9877, 9903-9907

190 cars. 19 trains loaned to pitkin for  service. Quote me if there any sets I left out or with any new sightings.

add 8828-8832/9568-9572 from jamaica

[VIP]

10 minutes ago, T J Trainman said:

add 8828-8832/9568-9572 from jamaica

With that inventory, the Siemens R160 transfers maybe then can be uniformed. End result transfer: Jamaica 8843-9012, then Coney Island 9013-9102. (I hope I got the count right) 

[happy283]

8658-8667, 8688-8692, 8708-8712, 8723-8727, 8828-8832, 8858-8862, 8878-8882, 8888-8897, 8953-8962, 8993-8997, 9003-9007, 9013-9022, 9113-9117, 9128-9132, 9163-9167, 9198-9202, 9223-9227, 9268-9272, 9328-9332, 9408-9412, 9423-9427, 9453-9462, 9503-9507, 9533-9537, 9568-9572, 9628-9632, 9673-9677, 9688-9692, 9728-9732, 9738-9742, 9818-9822, 9843-9847, 9853-9857, 9873-9877, 9903-9907

200 cars. 20 trains loaned to pitkin

[RapidoNewLook]

12 hours ago, happy283 said:

Just wondering could a 6 car R46 train run on the 

Does the  even still have 6 car R46s?

[trainfan22]

1 minute ago, RapidoNewLook said:

Does the  even still have 6 car R46s?

It's still possible to have an 6 car R46 consist, just look up an A-A pair to an 4 car set = 6 car R46.

[RapidoNewLook]

Just now, trainfan22 said:

It's still possible to have an 6 car R46 consist, just look up an A-A pair to an 4 car set = 6 car R46.

Yeah, but do they have A-A pairs sitting around, or would they have to break up a 4 car set?

[trainfan22]

1 minute ago, RapidoNewLook said:

Yeah, but do they have A-A pairs sitting around, or would they have to break up a 4 car set?

They usually hook up two A-A pairs to make an 4 car set, I see A-A pairs on the line all the time.

[R32 3838]

3 hours ago, happy283 said:

If thats the case, then they should send the 8 car R160s back to ENY to help increase fleet availability for ENY lines.

 

that's if the gets 2 more R160's but that's not happening, they still need some spares for the R46's, hence why the 2 R160's are on the

[Ultimategamer12c]

I've been seeing a R32 get  Stored at Canarsie Yard and get some washing from that yard as well like, today another R32 had went their to get washed, that to me made me remember  when the R42s was active and eny would send them to Canarsie  yard for a wash that gave me 2016 vibes I like that and actually  missed when eny did that, although the R32s aren't service  it's  still nice to see they care for them to get washed and stay clean.

Edited June 21, 2020 by Ultimategamer12c

[Ultimategamer12c]

1 minute ago, Ultimategamer12c said:

 

 

Edited June 21, 2020 by Ultimategamer12c

[happy283]

19 minutes ago, trainfan22 said:

They usually hook up two A-A pairs to make an 4 car set, I see A-A pairs on the line all the time.

Everything above 6208 is in married pairs. They are regularly on the 

[MeeP15-9112]

1 hour ago, happy283 said:

Everything above 6208 is in married pairs.

6206-6207 was a married pair with 6207 having the hostler on its leading end. But then they were mated to 6152-6153 after that 2017 wreck.

[happy283]

12 hours ago, VIP said:

With that inventory, the Siemens R160 transfers maybe then can be uniformed. End result transfer: Jamaica 8843-9012, then Coney Island 9013-9102. (I hope I got the count right) 

While that would make sense, the MTA didnt take that path. CI currently has 110 siemens R160s remaining after the transfer. I am pretty sure the numbers wrre random based in what sets were mated with each other at the time of the transfer.

[darkstar8983]

36 minutes ago, happy283 said:

While that would make sense, the MTA didnt take that path. CI currently has 110 siemens R160s remaining after the transfer. I am pretty sure the numbers wrre random based in what sets were mated with each other at the time of the transfer.

In that case: to maintain 120 cars, you would need 8983-9102 to remain in Coney Island. I think the numbers for the Siemens unit aren’t uniform (Even after all the time that has passed to allow for the exact numbers to be swapped) is because the MTA is waiting on the R211 order to switch everything around one last time.

remember that in the R142A  swap, they needed the exact car numbers 7211-7590 to be switched out, so they had to constantly detach and recouple train sets to make sure 7591 and up were not mated to any cars below 7590.

Also, The original plan called for ALL, but 40 R160s to be sent to Jamaica, but due to the increased service requirements and the R32 retirement/R179 issues, it left 120’R160s in Coney Island. Since the R211 order is going to be a major fleet expander because only 940/1612 cars will directly replace the R46s, we may see a more uniform car assignment. It also leaves to speculation whether the R160s will all remain in Jamaica or if some R211s will take their place.

Edited June 21, 2020 by darkstar8983

[CF2]

Hello! This is my first time posting a comment to a forum. I am an MTA T/O and I work vacation relief. I do respect the knowledge of you guys concerning all things transit. I just want to know what you think about the following: I'm noticing that a few workers on the A line like the R160s. I've even heard some say they would rather keep them. They don't want the R179s back. However, what we wish for is usually not what takes place. With that said, what do you think about the R179s NOT going back to the A, but to somewhere else? Now there are 13 10-car R179s (3010-3049 and 3238-3327). There are 12 Siemens R160s on the N/Q/W. So howsabout a 'straight-up trade': the 10-car R179s go to N/Q/W and the Siemens R160s plus a R46 (preferably 5870-5873 and 5874-5877) go to the A line. Note: For car number uniformality, 8888-8892, 8913-8917, 8938-8942, and 8978-8982 go to JYD; 8983-8987, 8988-8992, 8998-9002, and 9013-9017 go to the A line. JYD would then have 8843-8982 and the A line would have 8983-9102. Now I realize that this WILL NOT HAPPEN! There's been so much transferring as is. Just want to know if you guys would go along with this to appease A line workers.

[RailBus63]

21 hours ago, mediccjh said:

The R32s are retired and are NOT coming out to play. Sorry to get your hopes up (including mine, since I told my boss I was gonna take one for a joyride).

Trains will be running normal, with some adjustments since the junkboxes, er, 179s, are having their lemon issues (again). 

Thanks for the update. 

Just curious - by 'normal', do you mean the same level of service that has been operating during Phase 1 of reopening?

[MHV9218]

7 minutes ago, RailBus63 said:

Thanks for the update. 

Just curious - by 'normal', do you mean the same level of service that has been operating during Phase 1 of reopening?

Again, per my post earlier, I would confidently wager that not even the MTA knows what level of service will be necessary over the next week or two. This all depends on public choice and public sentiment, which will translate into political pressure. If ridership is within the range of current levels, present equipment will suffice. If there is a significant increase – or even the perception of a significant increases due to SRO cars, etc. – the 32s will be necessary to make ends meet. It's a math problem.

[RailBus63]

7 minutes ago, MHV9218 said:

Again, per my post earlier, I would confidently wager that not even the MTA knows what level of service will be necessary over the next week or two. This all depends on public choice and public sentiment, which will translate into political pressure. If ridership is within the range of current levels, present equipment will suffice. If there is a significant increase – or even the perception of a significant increases due to SRO cars, etc. – the 32s will be necessary to make ends meet. It's a math problem.

Just the resumption of in-store retail alone will increase ridership in my opinion, as more employees return to work.  I hope the MTA is prepared. 

[Fuseguy is Cool]

59 minutes ago, CF2 said:

Hello! This is my first time posting a comment to a forum. I am an MTA T/O and I work vacation relief. I do respect the knowledge of you guys concerning all things transit. I just want to know what you think about the following: I'm noticing that a few workers on the A line like the R160s. I've even heard some say they would rather keep them. They don't want the R179s back. However, what we wish for is usually not what takes place. With that said, what do you think about the R179s NOT going back to the A, but to somewhere else? Now there are 13 10-car R179s (3010-3049 and 3238-3327). There are 12 Siemens R160s on the N/Q/W. So howsabout a 'straight-up trade': the 10-car R179s go to N/Q/W and the Siemens R160s plus a R46 (preferably 5870-5873 and 5874-5877) go to the A line. Note: For car number uniformality, 8888-8892, 8913-8917, 8938-8942, and 8978-8982 go to JYD; 8983-8987, 8988-8992, 8998-9002, and 9013-9017 go to the A line. JYD would then have 8843-8982 and the A line would have 8983-9102. Now I realize that this WILL NOT HAPPEN! There's been so much transferring as is. Just want to know if you guys would go along with this to appease A line workers.

Hey there hmm that's an interesting proposition. We all know that the R160s on the  wouldn't have occurred if the R179 fleet didn't have to be pulled from service.  I also don't think that the TA wants to place the R179s on the  because operators are morely used to R68A's, R46's and R160s. Personally, they just wouldn't feel right. Once the returns to normal service, The R160s on the  will need to go back to  since it will probably have to put all 46 R160s in service when ridership increases significantly. QBL can't run old tech now because of CBTC. Again my theories and opinions here guys. 

[Bill from Maspeth]

On ‎6‎/‎19‎/‎2020 at 7:32 PM, happy283 said:

With phase 2 set for monday, is there any chance the union will approve the use of the R32 for service?

R32's not needed since the L will not be going back to its' 4 minute rush hour headways.  When will that happen?  That's up to NYCT suits.

[CF2]

10 minutes ago, Fuseguy is Cool said:

Hey there hmm that's an interesting proposition. We all know that the R160s on the  wouldn't have occurred if the R179 fleet didn't have to be pulled from service.  I also don't think that the TA wants to place the R179s on the  because operators are morely used to R68A's, R46's and R160s. Personally, they just wouldn't feel right. Once the returns to normal service, The R160s on the  will need to go back to  since it will probably have to put all 46 R160s in service when ridership increases significantly. QBL can't run old tech now because of CBTC. Again my theories and opinions here guys. 

Eventually, some time in the not too distant future, JYD will need their trains back like you said. But if the TA ordered the 10-car R179s to go to the N/Q/W (which won't happen), the operators would have to go to training and learn about operating them. I was never sent to training. I was at Essex St with my conductor waiting for our trip to Crescent St (weekend GO). The next train that pulled in was a R179. It was our train to go so we had to take. There was a TSS on board. You could say that I learned on the fly.

[Bill from Maspeth]

On ‎6‎/‎20‎/‎2020 at 7:54 AM, darkstar8983 said:

I have nothing personal against the R32s. I would also love to see them back in service. But I’m not sure as to the real reason why the MTA and the union are against putting those cars into service. I imagine it’s due to the half-cab safety issues. But I could be wrong.

The MTA wants to use the R32's ready to go when they feel they are needed (when the L goes back to 4 minute rush hour headways), but TWU has said no. 

Even with the area behind the cabs blocked off by chains, when the c/r changes cabs to go to the other side, passengers behind the chain will be much less than 6 feet away.  Social Distancing violation.  NYCT has already over 130 deaths since last announced, the union doesn't want more.  You can't go farther back than that since the doorways would be blocked off.  They will not put 2 conductors on a train.  Even IF....if they have to leave the cab for any investigation, they still violate social distancing upon leaving the cab.  Plus, what is to stop some passenger moving the chain and sitting down?  Employee assaults with passengers as the perps are way up and are not decreasing. If the person has the balls to move the chains and ignore the signage, then the person has to balls to perhaps punch the conductor in the face when asked to move even in a nice way.

I realize there are R32 lovers who want the cars to roll again, but TWU will not allow this to happen at the expense of the probability of a conductor coming down with Covid and/or an assault.