Fleet Swap Discussion Thread

[RapidoNewLook]

Were the R32s out this morning?

[MHV9218]

13 hours ago, danielhg121 said:

To be fair, the steel door doesn't make the cab airtight and most of the cab doors have a gaping hole that make the door seem flimsy. Security would be completely nonsensical but roping it off is better and safer in general. 

Nobody said it was airtight, but again, the door covers 99% of the space, the chain keeps people 6 feet away, you wear a mask, and you open the window...I'm just saying, the risk here is almost exclusively to C/Rs, and that's who the real focus should be on – and that's why I think 32s should be running with two C/Rs per trip, by the way. People need to understand the science on this stuff. Distance has a real impact, as the virus typically carries suspended in the air only within about six feet. Then it falls to the floor. That's why a C/R walking between crowds, or opening a window on a platform, is particularly at risk.

12 hours ago, 1train2255railfan said:

When you are at an RFW, you can definitely feel wind coming through the open nooks while the train is in motion. Definitely not airtight. 

Which, by the way, is actually a good thing for the circumstances – air from tunnel and circulation is what helps keep stagnant air from sitting and causes the molecules to dissolve.

12 hours ago, AlgorithmOfTruth said:

Don't forget that the operating cabs in the 32s get hot in the summer heat. That leads many train operators to work with their cab doors open. The whole idea dies in said scenario. To say that the T/O is in next to no risk is wishful thinking. We are talking about microscopic molecules that can easily pass through the smallest of spaces. You cannot eliminate the risk entirely unless the lead motor and conductor cars are isolated from passengers completely with their ends locked to prevent passengers from entering those restricted areas.

Cab door open is already a write-up from a TSS if you're caught anyway, and I sure as hell wouldn't recommend opening the door in this situation, where the whole point is the enclosed space for safety. As I said above, the primary risk is for the C/R. Having a shut steel door with nobody standing within six feet of it, window open, and mask on makes it next to no risk. The door does not need to be airtight, it needs to be shut, blocking 99% of air travel. 

12 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said:

I'm hoping that no one believes that any cab door is airtight. C'mon I thought you guys were smarter than that. 

Nobody is arguing that. My point here is that the real focus should be on C/R safety. R32s should be running with two C/Rs. The railfan/RFW situation is overblown and contrary to the science of this.

Edited July 1, 2020 by MHV9218

[happy283]

7 minutes ago, RapidoNewLook said:

Were the R32s out this morning?

With the  running full service, they would have had no other choice.

[Bill from Maspeth]

15 hours ago, MHV9218 said:

 

Yeah, security would complete defeat the point – the point is to have 0 humans around the cab door, whether it's a railfan or a guy in a uniform, doesn't matter. Personally, I find this whole thing a little overblown. There is next to no risk for a T/O with the door shut at the front of the train, even if you had a railfan with his face pressed to the glass the whole ride. It's a steel door in between, and probably a window open in the cab. It doesn't spread through steel. The point of concern is the C/R section, which is where a C/R actually has to breathe in the air with people around. But that's not somewhere that railfans have ever set up shop anyway. Also, there simply isn't an infinite number of crazy railfans riding around – it might seem that way on the nostalgia runs, but I'd be surprised to see more than a dozen, maybe two dozen fans show up in a given day of 32 service, which spread among six-seven trains over many hours...you do the math.

Explain to me why, when I was working as a train operator, when somebody presses his ass against a cab door and cuts a stinky fart, I was able to smell the stink to the point where the stench lasted in the cab for several minutes?

There are openings in the cab door where you, while standing at the RFW, can peek thru the little holes to watch what the t/o is doing as well as an opening where the cab door meets up with the lock/latch. Plus there has to be some gap between the frame and the cab door itself so the door has room to open and close.  The t/o certainly does not have an air tight workspace as you imply. 

This is what pisses me off: when people who never done the job come thru like an expert.

[MHV9218]

48 minutes ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

Explain to me why, when I was working as a train operator, when somebody presses his ass against a cab door and cuts a stinky fart, I was able to smell the stink to the point where the stench lasted in the cab for several minutes?

There are openings in the cab door where you, while standing at the RFW, can peek thru the little holes to watch what the t/o is doing as well as an opening where the cab door meets up with the lock/latch. Plus there has to be some gap between the frame and the cab door itself so the door has room to open and close.  The t/o certainly does not have an air tight workspace as you imply. 

This is what pisses me off: when people who never done the job come thru like an expert.

Respectfully, I trust your authority and appreciate your expertise but you are putting words in my mouth or confusing my post with somebody else's. Absolutely nowhere did I say it was airtight. In fact I said multiple times that nobody is arguing that. Please separate me from the kids on this forum; I've been here for years, I work a job, I don't live at the RFW with a GoPro. My main point is that transit is not taking this seriously enough with C/Rs, so I'm really not the person to say I'm trying to be an expert. Many people are overblowing the concern about the RFW – already shut-off with a chain – and neglecting the real risk for C/Rs. It is already a given that there is a chain link keeping passengers at least five-six feet away from the cab, which is why your situation with somebody's ass to the door should not be able to happen in the first place.

We know from numerous studies that covid molecules tend not to carry more than six feet airborne. Specifically, because they are liquid droplets – unlike a vapor/cloud stench (the fart example) – they tend to drift towards the ground and fall down. The door does not need to be airtight, it just needs to be shut, and we need to make sure there are people not standing right next to it. Not for nothing, the fact that the door between cars on a 32 is not airtight is also a good thing – it means that air will circulate in the immediate cab area. This is only true at the front of the train, where tunnel wind blows in, which is another reason we need to be most concerned about the C/R position, where there is stagnant air and no cross-circulation.

Edited July 1, 2020 by MHV9218

[Fuseguy is Cool]

12 minutes ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

Explain to me why, when I was working as a train operator, when somebody presses his ass against a cab door and cuts a stinky fart, I was able to smell the stink to the point where the stench lasted in the cab for several minutes?

There are openings in the cab door where you, while standing at the RFW, can peek thru the little holes to watch what the t/o is doing as well as an opening where the cab door meets up with the lock/latch. Plus there has to be some gap between the frame and the cab door itself so the door has room to open and close.  The t/o certainly does not have an air tight workspace as you imply. 

This is what pisses me off: when people who never done the job come thru like an expert.

Honestly the 32s coming back now is super legendary but you have to ask yourself.... it it worth braving the pandemic to film on the  or anywhere else? There is a huge risk for the operator, conductor and passengers who are taking the subway right now as life slowly is going back to normal. Phase 3 is supposed to begin next week so there will be an increase in ridership. The subways aren't really that crowded at all now even with phase 2 open. Can someone notify if Times Square - 42 St, the busiest station, is showing signs of life with busy platforms? 😂

[MysteriousBtrain]

Day 1 and this already happened:

[MHV9218]

4 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Day 1 and this already happened:

Saw the pic. They need a more solid chain / curtain divider like on the buses, asap.

Based on the sunlight in that pic, and the fact that railfans don't wake up before noon, I doubt that it was a fan who did that. 

[happy283]

13 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Day 1 and this already happened:

What a joke. They need the curtain like on the buses. That isnt doing anything and it look like it broke on its own as there is nobody in that area.

[danielhg121]

1 hour ago, MHV9218 said:

Nobody said it was airtight, but again, the door covers 99% of the space, the chain keeps people 6 feet away, you wear a mask, and you open the window...I'm just saying, the risk here is almost exclusively to C/Rs, and that's who the real focus should be on – and that's why I think 32s should be running with two C/Rs per trip, by the way. People need to understand the science on this stuff. Distance has a real impact, as the virus typically carries suspended in the air only within about six feet. Then it falls to the floor. That's why a C/R walking between crowds, or opening a window on a platform, is particularly at risk.

Okay, that's still a gross over-exaggeration (how does it occupy 99% of the space yet allow for finger-width), the T/O and C/R are both at high risk. It should be roped off near all crew controls PERIOD. Two C/R's is completely ridiculous especially when crews may still be calling out sick left and right amid mounting financial troubles. 

If it's possible to cut out doors, perhaps the C/R should lock the doors closest to them in both cabs and on both sides so they can extend the chain to the start of the next seating area. And then place a sign saying use the next available door with arrows pointing to it. 

[MHV9218]

1 minute ago, danielhg121 said:

Okay, that's still a gross over-exaggeration (how does it occupy 99% of the space yet allow for finger-width), the T/O and C/R are both at high risk. It should be roped off near all crew controls PERIOD. Two C/R's is completely ridiculous especially when crews may still be calling out sick left and right amid mounting financial troubles. 

If it's possible to cut out doors, perhaps the C/R should lock the doors closest to them in both cabs and on both sides so they can extend the chain to the start of the next seating area. And then place a sign saying use the next available door with arrows pointing to it. 

Damn, every part of this post is wrong. 

1) It does not allow finger-width, we are talking about the gaps in the hinges and the top and bottom of the door. Accepted science on this is that you need a barrier, not a depressurized space cabin 

2) It is not a gross-exaggeration, go stare at a door and tell me how much of the surface area is blocked

3) Everybody agrees it should be roped off, don't throw out "PERIOD" like you're making some point when nobody argued with you

4) Two C/Rs is absolutely not completely ridiculous, it would be prudent and safe, not to mention there are already fewer runs and sickness calls have decreased – and are more likely to increase if C/Rs have to walk between cars

5) So you want to crowd the cars and the boarding process when social distancing is essential. Good idea.

 

 

[Derrick Tan]

58 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Day 1 and this already happened:

Seriously, the MTA needs a more durable barrier, and even if they cannot, the least they can do is install temporary security cameras at the chained areas.

[danielhg121]

50 minutes ago, MHV9218 said:

Damn, every part of this post is wrong. 

1) It does not allow finger-width, we are talking about the gaps in the hinges and the top and bottom of the door. Accepted science on this is that you need a barrier, not a depressurized space cabin 

2) It is not a gross-exaggeration, go stare at a door and tell me how much of the surface area is blocked

3) Everybody agrees it should be roped off, don't throw out "PERIOD" like you're making some point when nobody argued with you

4) Two C/Rs is absolutely not completely ridiculous, it would be prudent and safe, not to mention there are already fewer runs and sickness calls have decreased – and are more likely to increase if C/Rs have to walk between cars

5) So you want to crowd the cars and the boarding process when social distancing is essential. Good idea.

 

 

I don't know which R32 you've been on but the ones I've seen have considerable gaps between the door and cab wall (around 2-3cm). Saying that T/O's are at virtually no risk with someone pressed against the RFW is flat out wrong so yea it should be roped off. What's preventing that person from going up to the cab door and exhaling into the cab and this applies to your 2 conductor idea because you seem to think that the steel door is enough. NY is full of loonies after all. You would rather have more workers potentially being exposed to COVID-19 and pay more money than rope out a few more feet to increase social distancing for transit workers, let's be real, the ridership isn't even close to that level. 

[R32 3838]

Just now, danielhg121 said:

I don't know which R32 you've been on but the ones I've seen have considerable gaps between the door and cab wall (around 2-3cm). Saying that T/O's are at virtually no risk with someone pressed against the RFW is flat out wrong so yea it should be roped off. What's preventing that person from going up to the cab door and exhaling into the cab and this applies to your 2 conductor idea because you seem to think that the steel door is enough. NY is full of loonies after all. You would rather have more workers potentially being exposed to COVID-19 and pay more money than rope out a few more feet to increase social distancing for transit workers, let's be real, the ridership isn't even close to that level. 

 

on the Last part, They pulled these out BECAUSE of the Increasing Ridership. The was crowded (Not Normally crowded) But crowded enough where more service needed to be added so people can socially distance themselves. That's the whole point.

 

But I do agree with the crew area being chained up, But the could have done better than that. These are plastic chains, We all knew this was gonna happen.

 

But people aren't gonna put up with reduced service when people gotta go to work. There's been complaints of overcrowding within the last few weeks before today. The governor and mayor wants people to socially distance themselves. when I rode the 2nd which was the 1st R32 set. It was empty and people were spread out throughout the cars.

[MHV9218]

21 minutes ago, danielhg121 said:

I don't know which R32 you've been on but the ones I've seen have considerable gaps between the door and cab wall (around 2-3cm). Saying that T/O's are at virtually no risk with someone pressed against the RFW is flat out wrong so yea it should be roped off. What's preventing that person from going up to the cab door and exhaling into the cab and this applies to your 2 conductor idea because you seem to think that the steel door is enough. NY is full of loonies after all. You would rather have more workers potentially being exposed to COVID-19 and pay more money than rope out a few more feet to increase social distancing for transit workers, let's be real, the ridership isn't even close to that level. 

It seem like people like arguing just for the sake of arguing, they don't even read posts. This is why I stay on the Bus side of the forum lol. From the very beginning I have said that the cabs should be roped off. My point has, and continues to be, that the greater risk is to the C/R sitting in stagnant air and having to leave the shut door of the cab.  Don't tell me something as stupid as "I want workers exposed to covid," especially when you're the one advocating having one C/R and making them walk through the contained space of the train car repeatedly...despite all of the science in the world suggesting that prolonged exposure to closed interior spaces like that is the highest risk. 

Edited July 1, 2020 by MHV9218

[danielhg121]

18 hours ago, MHV9218 said:

Personally, I find this whole thing a little overblown. There is next to no risk for a T/O with the door shut at the front of the train, even if you had a railfan with his face pressed to the glass the whole ride. It's a steel door in between, and probably a window open in the cab. It doesn't spread through steel.

Sorry if my reading comprehension isn't up to par, but this doesn't exactly sound like I want the crew area to be roped off...

18 hours ago, MHV9218 said:

 The point of concern is the C/R section, which is where a C/R actually has to breathe in the air with people around.

Social distancing and masks are key, if we can increase the amount of space for the C/R without blocking off an entire car like other posters have suggested, they can perform their jobs in an effective manner without having to pay extra people to complete the same task. Currently, it's not 6 feet, increasing the distance between passengers and conductors greatly reduces the risk (exponentially)... 

Not gonna carry this on any further.

[MHV9218]

2 minutes ago, danielhg121 said:

Sorry if my reading comprehension isn't up to par, but this doesn't exactly sound like I want the crew area to be roped off...

Social distancing and masks are key, if we can increase the amount of space for the C/R without blocking off an entire car like other posters have suggested, they can perform their jobs in an effective manner without having to pay extra people to complete the same task. Currently, it's not 6 feet, increasing the distance between passengers and conductors greatly reduces the risk (exponentially)... 

Not gonna carry this on any further.

The point about the RFW was to illustrate the situation, it remains true, and in three or now four posts since then I've repeated that the area should be roped off. I get that there are some people who aren't taking this situation seriously, I am not one of them. 

As a matter of science: it is way riskier for a C/R to have repeated exposure to a car with aerosolized/hanging molecules in the air each time he opens the door, than it is for a T/O to be on the other side of a steel door. Even if you space out passengers in the car, that doesn't really work that well, since if there's a breeze you're still blowing the molecules around the car. That's why I don't think it's safe for C/Rs to have to walk through the cars repeatedly. And that's why I've emphasized two C/Rs as the best idea for safety. It's a more appealing option than losing an entire car length and compressing passengers together, defeating the whole social distancing point. If you're making the cost argument, think about how much less expensive an extra C/R is compared to adding consists (which is what happened on the (L), as R32 3838 mentioned). 

 

[happy283]

5 hours ago, VIP said:

In short, the sets get rotated between yards. Pitkin doesn’t carry R160 parts IIRC, So those R160’s get sent back to Jamaica in exchange for a recently inspected unit. Another “Cuomo” refurbished set  9567-9563 is on the . Also 9667-9663 is on the   Along with 9163-9167/9183-9187 as a coupled set.

What is the current roster of R160s assigned to the ? Are 9563-9567 and 9663-9667 mated as one train or are they in separate trains?

Edited July 1, 2020 by happy283

[VIP]

3 hours ago, happy283 said:

What is the current roster of R160s assigned to the ? Are 9563-9567 and 9663-9667 mated as one train or are they in separate trains?

9663-9667 is mated with 9333-9337. I forgot what 9563-9567 is coupled to. 

[Calvin]

23 minutes ago, VIP said:

9663-9667 is mated with 9333-9337. I forgot what 9563-9567 is coupled to. 

9668-9672. Saw it the other day on the  

 

Anyways, just a pointer that seeing the and  lines, the R160 pool for each line is about 3-4 each. The  is random as it can rotated from the at Astoria terminal. The  , it's shared with Coney Island Yard, few days ago, saw about 4 4-car trains each (2 8-car trains). 

Edited July 1, 2020 by Calvin

[VIP]

1 hour ago, Calvin said:

9668-9672. Saw it the other day on the  

 

Anyways, just a pointer that seeing the and  lines, the R160 pool for each line is about 3-4 each. The  is random as it can rotated from the at Astoria terminal. The  , it's shared with Coney Island Yard, few days ago, saw about 4 4-car trains each (2 8-car trains). 

Thank You. Crews miss the “New tech” on those lines however, They didn’t notice that a few sets were sent to Pitkin as they are used to having 1 R160 throughout their whole tour anyway. 

[Calvin]

R42 farewell units 4826-4827 are the new "work" service cars, currently out of C.I. 

Edited July 2, 2020 by Calvin

[Ultimategamer12c]

9 minutes ago, Calvin said:

R42 farewell units 4826-4827 are the new "work" service cars, currently out of C.I. 

This should be fun, a work service  R42.

[Coney Island Av]

48 minutes ago, Calvin said:

R42 farewell units 4826-4827 are the new "work" service cars, currently out of C.I. 

i guess this means that they will replace the current R33WF redbirds in work service then...

[Fuseguy is Cool]

Off topic here but who's actually going to film the R32s tomorrow?