Fleet Swap Discussion Thread

[Union Tpke]

18 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

IIRC, There were plans to make the 10 cars last year but there hasn't been an update.

Quite frankly, I don't understand this obsession that has with keeping the 8 cars. They had a chance to fix it with the R179 order (they ordered it right the first time, with more 10 car units then 8 car units), then reversed the order to the way it was now.

The plan was to make the   10-cars long with the R211 order. Then, it was changed to accelerate it with the postponement of the R32s' retirement. Expect it to become 10-cars long after the R211s arrive.

[Vulturious]

Why are people always saying that QBL will get R211s? Let me just say why they aren't (I'm being realistic as possible to point out why this isn't going to happen, but if you really believe that they are getting them, by all means):

1.) Jamaica is 100% R160s. Sure there is the rotation with the R160s being given to the  while the R179s still being inspected, but they will be brought back to Jamaica once ridership start to climb back up.
2.) The whole point of the fleet swap was to make sure Jamaica had 100% CBTC-compatible trains for QBL.
3.) The fleet swap would've been a waste of money and the MTA right now is in an even deeper financial problem, they cannot afford to just throw away money anymore (unless they are still incompetent, they would probably swap fleets yet again).
4.) The only other real reason why the R211s would be placed on QBL is the wider doors for higher ridership. This isn't good enough imo, reason why is because that is the only reason. As I said before, Jamaica is already 100% R160s that are already compatible for CBTC. There is no other reason to just send more newer trains to QBL now with Coney Island needing new trains.

[R32 3838]

1 hour ago, Vulturious said:

Why are people always saying that QBL will get R211s? Let me just say why they aren't (I'm being realistic as possible to point out why this isn't going to happen, but if you really believe that they are getting them, by all means):

1.) Jamaica is 100% R160s. Sure there is the rotation with the R160s being given to the  while the R179s still being inspected, but they will be brought back to Jamaica once ridership start to climb back up.
2.) The whole point of the fleet swap was to make sure Jamaica had 100% CBTC-compatible trains for QBL.
3.) The fleet swap would've been a waste of money and the MTA right now is in an even deeper financial problem, they cannot afford to just throw away money anymore (unless they are still incompetent, they would probably swap fleets yet again).
4.) The only other real reason why the R211s would be placed on QBL is the wider doors for higher ridership. This isn't good enough imo, reason why is because that is the only reason. As I said before, Jamaica is already 100% R160s that are already compatible for CBTC. There is no other reason to just send more newer trains to QBL now with Coney Island needing new trains.

 

I explained everything alreay

These cars are coming in with CBTC on board, What Coney Island route has CBTC?

8th Ave is next in line for CBTC Which is delayed due to the pandemic.

The R160's at Jamaica that came from Coney Island Are Placeholders to Train everyone for CBTC, The Siemens are an Oddball Fleet At Jamaica. Those will be the first to leave if anything, Once the R211's enter service it'll be in 2021 or early 2022. By Then They can send those Siemens R160's Back. 

The Open Gangway is a dead giveaway that these would be on lines like the which are heavy ridership routes.

Why Not put the Newest CBTC Equipped Subway Cars on a line that will have CBTC Active by the time they are in service.

Jamaica Isn't going to be 100% R211's or 100% R160's.

If All Options are accepted the yea the 4-5 yards that would get these cars would Be Pitkin, Jamaica and CI (about 350 cars)  ENY would get a small chunk (Option order 2 has 4 car sets in the order) and possibly concourse yard would probably get some too ( The needs new cars as well)

 

It's Not a waste of money if you look at it, Cars are gonna be swapped around anyway once the R211's enter service so that whole it's a waste of money argument is dumb.

The are the highest ridership lines in the B Division, is not that stupid not to put these cars on those 2 lines.

 

 

Also I explained this last week in this thread:

 

 

the whole point of the swap is to prepare and train everyone for CBTC and CBTC itself. The R160's were contracted to have CBTC and it makes sense to make Jamaica all R160's to prepare everyone within the Queens including the yard and yard crew for CBTC. Obviously everyone in the B divison will be trained for the R211's and it would run on every part of the B division for testing.

By Waiting for the R211's, That would have delayed the process. I always said the same on why they couldn't wait but it makes sense to get everyone at Jamaica yard trained for CBTC so when the R211's come in it wouldn't be as complicated besides the R211 testing itself.

 

Also the first set has to test for a whole entire year or more before going into service. And if Jamaica were to get the R211's it would take them until 2022 to be fully NTT which could have made cbtc training and testing even more longer than what it should have been.

 

 

Edited August 22, 2020 by R32 3838

[Vulturious]

24 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

 

I explained everything alreay

These cars are coming in with CBTC on board, What Coney Island route has CBTC?

8th Ave is next in line for CBTC Which is delayed due to the pandemic.

The R160's at Jamaica that came from Coney Island Are Placeholders to Train everyone for CBTC, The Siemens are an Oddball Fleet At Jamaica. Those will be the first to leave if anything, Once the R211's enter service it'll be in 2021 or early 2022. By Then They can send those Siemens R160's Back. 

The Open Gangway is a dead giveaway that these would be on lines like the which are heavy ridership routes.

Why Not put the Newest CBTC Equipped Subway Cars on a line that will have CBTC Active by the time they are in service.

Jamaica Isn't going to be 100% R211's or 100% R160's.

If All Options are accepted the yea the 4-5 yards that would get these cars would Be Pitkin, Jamaica and CI (about 350 cars)  ENY would get a small chunk (Option order 2 has 4 car sets in the order) and possibly concourse yard would probably get some too ( The needs new cars as well)

 

It's Not a waste of money if you look at it, Cars are gonna be swapped around anyway once the R211's enter service so that whole it's a waste of money argument is dumb.

The are the highest ridership lines in the B Division, is not that stupid not to put these cars on those 2 lines.

 

 

Also I explained this last week in this thread:

 

 

the whole point of the swap is to prepare and train everyone for CBTC and CBTC itself. The R160's were contracted to have CBTC and it makes sense to make Jamaica all R160's to prepare everyone within the Queens including the yard and yard crew for CBTC. Obviously everyone in the B divison will be trained for the R211's and it would run on every part of the B division for testing.

By Waiting for the R211's, That would have delayed the process. I always said the same on why they couldn't wait but it makes sense to get everyone at Jamaica yard trained for CBTC so when the R211's come in it wouldn't be as complicated besides the R211 testing itself.

 

Also the first set has to test for a whole entire year or more before going into service. And if Jamaica were to get the R211's it would take them until 2022 to be fully NTT which could have made cbtc training and testing even more longer than what it should have been.

 

 

I guess that's all I needed to hear. Also the part with the "The needs new cars as well", I can fully agree with you on this one.  trains really have been needing this, NTTs are very rare to appear being signed up as a . I've only ever caught it once at 79th St when an  train was rerouted to Bay Parkway back in 2018. Although, it is a shame order options might not even be exercised at all for the R211's since the MTA is in an even deeper financial problem which was why I had pointed out about the MTA throwing money, but lets just forget about that because it doesn't count now from what you're saying.

[NewFlyer 230]

9 minutes ago, Vulturious said:

I guess that's all I needed to hear. Also the part with the "The needs new cars as well", I can fully agree with you on this one.  trains really have been needing this, NTTs are very rare to appear being signed up as a . I've only ever caught it once at 79th St when an  train was rerouted to Bay Parkway back in 2018. Although, it is a shame order options might not even be exercised at all for the R211's since the MTA is in an even deeper financial problem which was why I had pointed out about the MTA throwing money, but lets just forget about that because it doesn't count now from what you're saying.

I don’t think the MTA’s top priority right now is giving the  line NTT’s as long as it’s current fleet is doing alright. 
The R211’s are suppose to retire all the R32’s and R46’s anyways so that would be the MTA’s focus for right now.
 

[Calvin]

17 minutes ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

I don’t think the MTA’s top priority right now is giving the  line NTT’s as long as it’s current fleet is doing alright. 
The R211’s are suppose to retire all the R32’s and R46’s anyways so that would be the MTA’s focus for right now.
 

Only thing that needs to change for the  is getting back its extra R68s when the R211s are in property. Their spare factor is low on 3-4.5 as they gave away their trains over to C.I due to the SAS opening on the and fleet swap (2768-2783). 

Edited August 22, 2020 by Calvin

[NewFlyer 230]

7 minutes ago, Calvin said:

Only thing that needs to change for the  is getting back its extra R68s when the R211s are in property. Their spare factor is low on 3-4.5 as they gave away their trains over to C.I due to the SAS opening on the and fleet swap (2768-2783). 

I thought the  also took a piece of that away as well because when it was transferred from Jamaica to Coney Island, it went from using R46’s to R68/A’s. Jamaica didn’t lose anything from that swap. I don’t know if Piktin got from Jamaica since Jamaica at the time had more R46 spares. 

[Calvin]

9 minutes ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

I thought the  also took a piece of that away as well because when it was transferred from Jamaica to Coney Island, it went from using R46’s to R68/A’s. Jamaica didn’t lose anything from that swap. I don’t know if Piktin got from Jamaica since Jamaica at the time had more R46 spares. 

From what I remember (Pitkin), when the 10-car R179s are all in-service, they moved 5842-5877 over to Jamaica then to C.I from that fleet swap. 

The  that is, the R160s from 9143-9192 were moved to C.I to make room preventing shortage on the R68/As. 

 

Edited August 22, 2020 by Calvin

[Rigojefte Galo]

1 hour ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

I don’t think the MTA’s top priority right now is giving the  line NTT’s as long as it’s current fleet is doing alright. 
The R211’s are suppose to retire all the R32’s and R46’s anyways so that would be the MTA’s focus for right now.
 

That was last year to plan retire all remaining R32 to replace R211 but now back  in January it was decided to retire R32 to replace R179 instead. 

[R32 3838]

1 hour ago, Calvin said:

From what I remember (Pitkin), when the 10-car R179s are all in-service, they moved 5842-5877 over to Jamaica then to C.I from that fleet swap. 

The  that is, the R160s from 9143-9192 were moved to C.I to make room preventing shortage on the R68/As. 

 

9143-9162 were at CI originally then went to jamaica for a brief time then went back.

[trainfan22]

Surprisingly, one of the intervals today was an R143. I thought they would try and keep the runs 100% R32 but I guess not. I don't ride the everyday so IDK how common it is 

 

 

Also it seems like the 5:04 run didn't run today, showed up on the countdown clock but the train itself never showed up. An R160 came, passed it up for the next run which was an R143, the digital sign on the front of the train was broke as it was blank, I thought it was an NIS train at first.

Edited August 25, 2020 by trainfan22

[Rigojefte Galo]

50 minutes ago, trainfan22 said:

Surprisingly, one of the intervals today was an R143. I thought they would try and keep the runs 100% R32 but I guess not. I don't ride the everyday so IDK how common it is 

 

 

Also it seems like the 5:04 run didn't run today, showed up on the countdown clock but the train itself never showed up. An R160 came, passed it up for the next run which was an R143, the digital sign on the front of the train was broke as it was blank, I thought it was an NIS train at first.

The R179 it will come back not right now I'm sure possibly end of September because the MTA's haven't announced yet until further notice once is repaired then it will go back to passenger service and then R32 will go back to retirement once is safe.

Edited August 25, 2020 by Rigojefte Galo
About subway cars information updated

[happy283]

1 hour ago, trainfan22 said:

Surprisingly, one of the intervals today was an R143. I thought they would try and keep the runs 100% R32 but I guess not. I don't ride the everyday so IDK how common it is 

NTTs are preferred over the R32s because of the half cab issue. If they have one available why not use it.

[trainfan22]

What's funny is the behind the I rode was an R32. 

 

Also it appears there's a 3rd 4 car set of R179 at ENY. 307x (forgot the last digit) it was really shiny like it got deep cleaned. Seen an recently filmed video of R179 being transferred from CI to Pikin, hopefully these are signs the R179 will return to service soon. 

[Rigojefte Galo]

19 minutes ago, happy283 said:

NTTs are preferred over the R32s because of the half cab issue. If they have one available why not use it.

True thing for now temporarily until R179 is completed repaired link bars put together like between train cars so the R179 it will go back to service and return to A and C line and the J and Z line will be back the entire New Technology Trains soon once is safe.

Edited August 25, 2020 by Rigojefte Galo
R179 to return soon

[R32 3838]

18 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

Surprisingly, one of the intervals today was an R143. I thought they would try and keep the runs 100% R32 but I guess not. I don't ride the everyday so IDK how common it is 

 

 

Also it seems like the 5:04 run didn't run today, showed up on the countdown clock but the train itself never showed up. An R160 came, passed it up for the next run which was an R143, the digital sign on the front of the train was broke as it was blank, I thought it was an NIS train at first.

Everything rotates, The Tech Trains need to be inspected too. there's 8 R32 sets 3 to 4 of them are gonna be trains. The only uses six trains and in the AM the 1st stays out all day as a .

the R179's are rumored to be back in service within 3 weeks to a month. but IMO they should make the 100% R179's and just have a small portion at ENY with a few R32's as back ups. I'm not a fan of the mix length trains. The will still need a large spare factor and if the R46's are off the , Then That would help the . So expect to start seeing the R179's burn test soon

I rode that R143 with the broken sign around 7:30pm

Edited August 26, 2020 by R32 3838

[Rigojefte Galo]

On 8/26/2020 at 11:49 AM, R32 3838 said:

Everything rotates, The Tech Trains need to be inspected too. there's 8 R32 sets 3 to 4 of them are gonna be trains. The only uses six trains and in the AM the 1st stays out all day as a .

the R179's are rumored to be back in service within 3 weeks to a month. but IMO they should make the 100% R179's and just have a small portion at ENY with a few R32's as back ups. I'm not a fan of the mix length trains. The will still need a large spare factor and if the R46's are off the , Then That would help the . So expect to start seeing the R179's burn test soon

I rode that R143 with the broken sign around 7:30pm

Once the R179 test the new modifications soon then they will go back to passenger service on the A and C line and the J and Z line will go back the entire New Technology Trains service the entire R179 and R160 on the J and Z line as soon as possible. 

[happy283]

On 8/26/2020 at 11:49 AM, R32 3838 said:

So expect to start seeing the R179's burn test soon

Why will they need to be burn tested again?

[trainfan22]

1 hour ago, happy283 said:

Why will they need to be burn tested again?

They have mostly been sitting idle for months, burn testing them again to see if there's any issues, etc, before reentering service.

Edited August 29, 2020 by trainfan22

[Bill from Maspeth]

Just now, trainfan22 said:

They have been sitting idle for months, burn testing them again to see if there's any issues, etc, before reentering service.

That would be "track tested" not "burn tested".

IMO the entire fleet will be SMS'ed so new parts as required can be installed.

After that, IMO, will be to individually "track test" each set for proper acceleration and braking.

All this because the fleet has been out of service for almost 3 months with no end in sight. 

[Bill from Maspeth]

Just now, Bill from Maspeth said:

That would be "track tested" not "burn tested".

IMO the entire fleet will be SMS'ed so new parts as required can be installed.

After that, IMO, will be to individually "track test" each set for proper acceleration and braking.  And to put a device on the cars in the barn which would open and close the doors constantly for 12-24 hours to make sure they work properly.

All this because the fleet has been out of service for almost 3 months with no end in sight. 

 

[Rigojefte Galo]

2 hours ago, happy283 said:

Why will they need to be burn tested again?

So it will get better so the R179 could go back to passenger service. 

[T J Trainman]

Was 2156-2160 sent from the 1 to the 6? I could have sworn I saw them on Wednesday on the 6 line.

[Rigojefte Galo]

5 hours ago, T J Trainman said:

Was 2156-2160 sent from the 1 to the 6? I could have sworn I saw them on Wednesday on the 6 line.

Which one R62A because I already know R142A are no longer on the 6 line since 2018.

[jon2305]

7 hours ago, T J Trainman said:

Was 2156-2160 sent from the 1 to the 6? I could have sworn I saw them on Wednesday on the 6 line.

Its still on the 1. I can confirm that because I saw it yesterday at 125th Street coupled with 2216-2220.