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Fleet Swap Discussion Thread


INDman

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32 minutes ago, The Rail Shooter said:

Just a thought, but since the B doesn't run on weekends, why not send some R68A's to the D line? 

They would need those for early AM put-ins. Moving some or all could confuse train operators to which train they need to use to start service: such as Bedford Pk Blvd from Concourse or Stillwell/C.I Yds deadhead to Brighton Beach. 

Edited by Calvin
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56 minutes ago, Calvin said:

They would need those for early AM put-ins. Moving some or all could confuse train operators to which train they need to use to start service: such as Bedford Pk Blvd from Concourse or Stillwell/C.I Yds deadhead to Brighton Beach. 

Are you talking about for Monday AM put-ins or just the weekends in general? I feel it would benefit weekend riders if they were being operated, but what you are saying makes sense as train operators can get confused for which trains they need to use and so forth.

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12 minutes ago, Vulturious said:

Are you talking about for Monday AM put-ins or just the weekends in general? I feel it would benefit weekend riders if they were being operated, but what you are saying makes sense as train operators can get confused for which trains they need to use and so forth.

For Mondays, as your answer. The put-ins start around 4 AM at that time in the Bronx. 

Edited by Calvin
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I don't see the point of using the R68A on the (D) on weekends, the R68s assigned to the (D) are doing just fine, there isn't a drastic difference in comfort between the fleets and the (D) line R68s are reliable... so what's the point?

 

 

About a decade ago they did something like this where they put the (B) line R68A's on the (N) and (Q) on weekends cause the R160s warranty was about to expire after those cars traveled a certain amount of miles. So that the warranty would last longer, they used R68A in place of the R160s on weekends.

 

 

Edited by trainfan22
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2 hours ago, Calvin said:

They would need those for early AM put-ins. Moving some or all could confuse train operators to which train they need to use to start service: such as Bedford Pk Blvd from Concourse or Stillwell/C.I Yds deadhead to Brighton Beach. 

Yeah I was mainly referring to R68A D trains on weekends, weekdays meh not so much

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3 hours ago, The Rail Shooter said:

Just a thought, but since the B doesn't run on weekends, why not send some R68A's to the D line? 

I personally would just have the (B) and (D) share a common pool of cars split between Concourse and Coney Island rather than transfer (B) train cars to the (D) on weekends.

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1 hour ago, Around the Horn said:

I personally would just have the (B) and (D) share a common pool of cars split between Concourse and Coney Island rather than transfer (B) train cars to the (D) on weekends.

If that was to be the case, then both the (B) and (D) would be using R160's. The only reason why that isn't the case is because Concourse loves the R68, I don't know about the R68A's, but they are kept at Concourse as storage.

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5 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

I don't see the point of using the R68A on the (D) on weekends, the R68s assigned to the (D) are doing just fine, there isn't a drastic difference in comfort between the fleets and the (D) line R68s are reliable... so what's the point?

 

 

About a decade ago they did something like this where they put the (B) line R68A's on the (N) and (Q) on weekends cause the R160s warranty was about to expire after those cars traveled a certain amount of miles. So that the warranty would last longer, they used R68A in place of the R160s on weekends.

 

 

 

8 hours ago, The Rail Shooter said:

Just a thought, but since the B doesn't run on weekends, why not send some R68A's to the D line? 

Funny that this was mentioned; two weekends ago I caught an R68A in regular D service. 

This used to be a common thing to use 1-2, occasionally 3 sets from the B on weekends around 2011-2 I recall. 

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5 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

I don't see the point of using the R68A on the (D) on weekends, the R68s assigned to the (D) are doing just fine, there isn't a drastic difference in comfort between the fleets and the (D) line R68s are reliable... so what's the point?

R68/A's usually feel sluggish whenever I've ridden the (D). I've ridden the (D) multiple times to know how slow it is. Whenever there was a reroute on West End (which usually happens practically everyday), I found riding the R160's much faster. Then again, the fleet is years older than the R160's so it's obvious that it would be the case. 

16 minutes ago, 4P3607 said:

Funny that this was mentioned; two weekends ago I caught an R68A in regular D service. 

This used to be a common thing to use 1-2, occasionally 3 sets from the B on weekends around 2011-2 I recall. 

Would've been nice to at least have at least 1 set from Coney other than the R68/A's like the R160's to run via the (D) for the weekend, even during rush hours. I always see (D) trains running behind schedule practically everyday and they tend to run express as well on West End. Would it hurt to really just use 1 set for 1 round trip? At the end of the day, (D) trains are always running to Coney Island meaning they have direct yard access.

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16 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

I don't see the point of using the R68A on the (D) on weekends, the R68s assigned to the (D) are doing just fine, there isn't a drastic difference in comfort between the fleets and the (D) line R68s are reliable... so what's the point?

 

 

About a decade ago they did something like this where they put the (B) line R68A's on the (N) and (Q) on weekends cause the R160s warranty was about to expire after those cars traveled a certain amount of miles. So that the warranty would last longer, they used R68A in place of the R160s on weekends.

 

 

 

They are not doing fine lmao. Concourse keeps loosing R68's to CI every other year and it's starting to show when they have a reduced spare factor. IMO they should use some R68A's on weekends to tend to R68's that need work.

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20 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

I don't see the point of using the R68A on the (D) on weekends, the R68s assigned to the (D) are doing just fine, there isn't a drastic difference in comfort between the fleets and the (D) line R68s are reliable... so what's the point?

 

 

About a decade ago they did something like this where they put the (B) line R68A's on the (N) and (Q) on weekends cause the R160s warranty was about to expire after those cars traveled a certain amount of miles. So that the warranty would last longer, they used R68A in place of the R160s on weekends.

 

 

Extra 68A D's on weekends would help service a little on 6th avenue and in the Bronx, plus most of them are always sitting in the yard most of the time. 

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5 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

 

They are not doing fine lmao. Concourse keeps loosing R68's to CI every other year and it's starting to show when they have a reduced spare factor. IMO they should use some R68A's on weekends to tend to R68's that need work.

Do you have any proof that the Concourse R68s aren't in good shape? I haven't seen or heard of any problems since they had an reduced spare factor. 

 

@The Rail Shooter  If you mean using the 68A to run extra service on the (D) no money and G.O's is probably why that won't happen.  Also ops planning or whoever's decides service levels probably doesn't think that increased (D) service is necessary.

 

 

 

Edited by trainfan22
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15 minutes ago, trainfan22 said:

Do you have any proof that the Concourse R68s aren't in good shape? I haven't seen or heard of any problems since they had an reduced spare factor. 

 

@The Rail Shooter  If you mean using the 68A to run extra service on the (D) no money and G.O's is probably why that won't happen.  Also ops planning or whoever's decides service levels probably doesn't think that increased (D) service is necessary.

 

 

 

Then whoever thinks that is mistaken. I've taken the (D) often enough to know it needs extra service even on the weekday. As much help it gets during the weekday, it just never is enough mainly because of other service screwing it or there just wasn't enough running around period. I always have to wait for 1 train to come by and (D) trains are always more than 10 to 15 mins wait time. 

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38 minutes ago, Vulturious said:

Then whoever thinks that is mistaken. I've taken the (D) often enough to know it needs extra service even on the weekday. As much help it gets during the weekday, it just never is enough mainly because of other service screwing it or there just wasn't enough running around period. I always have to wait for 1 train to come by and (D) trains are always more than 10 to 15 mins wait time. 

I was only talking about the weekend (D) service. I've heard about the woes weekday (D) riders have particularity on the BX end of the route, a suggestion that comes up from time to time is to extend the hours of  (B) service to Bedford Park. 

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17 hours ago, Vulturious said:

R68/A's usually feel sluggish whenever I've ridden the (D). I've ridden the (D) multiple times to know how slow it is. Whenever there was a reroute on West End (which usually happens practically everyday), I found riding the R160's much faster. Then again, the fleet is years older than the R160's so it's obvious that it would be the case. 

Would've been nice to at least have at least 1 set from Coney other than the R68/A's like the R160's to run via the (D) for the weekend, even during rush hours. I always see (D) trains running behind schedule practically everyday and they tend to run express as well on West End. Would it hurt to really just use 1 set for 1 round trip? At the end of the day, (D) trains are always running to Coney Island meaning they have direct yard access.

All R68/A are slow compared to NTT. That doesn't mean their maintenance is bad, at the MDBF peak of the R68/68A fleet they had the same acceleration they do now. The R68/A's are just slow cars lol. 

 

 

If Concourse needed to borrow a train for one round trip during the week like the (A) line does, then they would do that, but they have enough cars to make service just fine. 

Edited by trainfan22
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4 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

All R68/A are slow compared to NTT. That doesn't mean their maintenance is bad, at the MDBF peak of the R68/68A fleet they had the same acceleration they do now. The R68/A's are just slow cars lol. 

 

 

If Concourse needed to borrow a train for one round trip during the week like the (A) line does, then they would do that, but they have enough cars to make service just fine. 

 

4 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

I was only talking about the weekend (D) service. I've heard about the woes weekday (D) riders have particularity on the BX end of the route, a suggestion that comes up from time to time is to extend the hours of  (B) service to Bedford Park. 

I don't really know how bad service is in the Bronx is since I never go there because I had no need to do so. However, the statement I highlighted in bold sort of just isn't the case if that is what you think. Like I said, I've taken the (D) enough to know that it needs some extra service, unless you strongly feel that isn't the case I won't stop you from thinking that. Just something I usually tend to see a lot whenever I'm riding it. Although, the part about the suggestion of (B) to Bedford Park should be extended is probably something that should happen. It just ends up delaying both local and express if they terminate at 145 St. 

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23 hours ago, 4P3607 said:

 

Funny that this was mentioned; two weekends ago I caught an R68A in regular D service. 

This used to be a common thing to use 1-2, occasionally 3 sets from the B on weekends around 2011-2 I recall. 

It wasn't a weekend only thing. From Late 2010 through April 2012, the R68s from Concourse Yard were going through major SMS work so around 2-3 Coney Island R68s were officially assigned to the (D) Line.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

The (C) is currently running 12 - 15 minute headways right now during the PM rush when it normally runs 10 minute headways IIRC. Source? The mta website when you click on the (C) line bullet on the front page. They had to send a Rock Park special local to cover a gap in (C) service.

 

 

Car shortage is the cause for the extended headway? 

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3 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

The (C) is currently running 12 - 15 minute headways right now during the PM rush when it normally runs 10 minute headways IIRC. Source? The mta website when you click on the (C) line bullet on the front page. They had to send a Rock Park special local to cover a gap in (C) service.

 

 

Car shortage is the cause for the extended headway? 

yeah, ever since the R32's were retired and the R179's have been taken OOS, the C has been short of trains (basically it's 100% R46's now) which is why service is garbage. We all know that more than half of the R32's were reactivated on the J line, but my thinking is that they don't want to send them on the C because they don't want to overwork the AC's on them. Since the C doesn't have enough trains there's times where there is more than a 15 minute gap. Honestly MTA should send 1-3 E trains to Euclid in order to reduce gap in service, the C is already as bad as it is right now. 

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4 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

The (C) is currently running 12 - 15 minute headways right now during the PM rush when it normally runs 10 minute headways IIRC. Source? The mta website when you click on the (C) line bullet on the front page. They had to send a Rock Park special local to cover a gap in (C) service.

 

 

Car shortage is the cause for the extended headway? 

Yup the spare factor for the (C), and in general, is incredibly low at the moment.

Had (MTA) just brought back the R42's for a (2nd) time, this wouldn't even be an issue and the (C) would be running R32's and R46's, or R32's and R160's like it did last year.

Edited by Lawrence St
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207th currently has 44 R32's they can use for service. They choose to let em sit as spares for the 94 R32's at ENY. They could have ran these on the (A) but they choose not too. 

 

Even if the pandemic didn't happen, this would have been the norm. They were gonna reduce service on the (C) to kill off the remaining R32's by reducing the R46 spare factor and if an R46 is not available,  the (C) suffers. This is the one negative about retiring the R32's. The funny thing is that your Lord and savior king Cuomo signed on for the (MTA) to reduce (C) service.

 

And right now since the (MTA) is loosing money, those R46's will be off the (C) eventually due to how much it costs to run them and the fact both terminals need addtional crew, especially at euclid. This is why the (C) should be 100% R179's until the R211 order comes in. Then the (C) could go to 10 cars.

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1 hour ago, R32 3838 said:

207th currently has 44 R32's they can use for service. They choose to let em sit as spares for the 94 R32's at ENY. They could have ran these on the (A) but they choose not too. 

 

Even if the pandemic didn't happen, this would have been the norm. They were gonna reduce service on the (C) to kill off the remaining R32's by reducing the R46 spare factor and if an R46 is not available,  the (C) suffers. This is the one negative about retiring the R32's. The funny thing is that your Lord and savior king Cuomo signed on for the (MTA) to reduce (C) service.

 

And right now since the (MTA) is loosing money, those R46's will be off the (C) eventually due to how much it costs to run them and the fact both terminals need addtional crew, especially at euclid. This is why the (C) should be 100% R179's until the R211 order comes in. Then the (C) could go to 10 cars.

Which is exactly why the R32's should not be retired UNTIL the R211's come.

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51 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Which is exactly why the R32's should not be retired UNTIL the R211's come.

The MTA can't change it back they were initially retire R32 With the R179 and R211 However in January 2020 it was decided to retire R32 with R179 R32 have been run 56 years old. 

Edited by Rigojefte Galo
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59 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Which is exactly why the R32's should not be retired UNTIL the R211's come.

If there's 8 cars on R46 75 feet long cars equals 10 cars uses on R179, R160 and R143 60.21 feet long cars so they could subtract or divide in 8 cars for 60.21 feet long cars to order R211 4 cars set's for the c train. 

Edited by Rigojefte Galo
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