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Fleet Swap Discussion Thread


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22 minutes ago, SimplyMyself said:

All the R160As (built by Alstom) have Alstom Onix propulsion. 400/660 R160Bs (built by Kawasaki) have Alstom Onix as well. Only 8843-9102 (260 cars) have Siemens SITRAC.

You can read about the R160 specifics here:

https://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/New_Technology_Trains_-_B_Division

 

So that explains why the Siemens used to run on the (N) and (Q). I think all of the Siemens should go to the (C) when the r211's come, and some alstoms should go back to coney island (750 cars) Thanks, I didn't know that!

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24 minutes ago, SimplyMyself said:

All the R160As (built by Alstom) have Alstom Onix propulsion. 400/660 R160Bs (built by Kawasaki) have Alstom Onix as well. Only 8843-9102 (260 cars) have Siemens SITRAC.

You can read about the R160 specifics here:

https://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/New_Technology_Trains_-_B_Division

 

Thanks, I didn't know that! One thing i'm curious about: how do the (MTA) number their cars? Because if I recall correctly, the R160's were numbered 8313-9974... ( I did not know that I just looked at the link)

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On 1/21/2021 at 1:17 AM, Vulturious said:

That last bit is the more likely option to happen, although them getting R160's in general is kinda unlikely. Regardless, I can definitely see where you are going seeing as Coney Island is having a hard time trying to keep the R46's in order. In all honesty, I thought Coney Island wouldn't be having a hard time with them, then again they did come from Jamaica and then as the pandemic happened and also because the R46's are forced to run more often 24/7 rather than what it was earlier with them being used for late night service shuttle on Lefferts and the (R) to Whitehall.

When Coney Island was R160 with R68/A, the fleet choice with route went well (maintenance too). But, currently, with the R46s, the selection is messy due to the overflow of old techs at the Yard w. more parts to maintain. 


In Coney Island's use of the R46, they are overworked on the (Q) . 

Edited by Calvin
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imo all they need is more cars to increase spare factor, I just don't get why they don't just run these on the (B). it would help alot. have most of the r68's on the (Q).

Them not running a small chunk of R32's is hurting them due to low spare factor of R46's. I know those borrowed R160's from Jamaica Went back so they only have 9833-9922 for the (N)(W).

 

IMO they should have kept the R32's on the (J)(Z) and just have the (C) be 100% R179 until the R211's enter service. Have those extra R46's go to Coney for spares.

Edited by R32 3838
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12 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

imo all they need is more cars to increase spare factor, I just don't get why they don't just run these on the (B). it would help alot. have most of the r68's on the (Q).

Them not running a small chunk of R32's is hurting them due to low spare factor of R46's. I know those borrowed R160's from Jamaica Went back so they only have 9833-9922 for the (N)(W).

 

IMO they should have kept the R32's on the (J)(Z) and just have the (C) be 100% R179 until the R211's enter service. Have those extra R46's go to Coney for spares.

They don’t run those 46’s on the (B) because it goes to 145 and the Bronx. Let’s say the set needs some maintenance, concourse yard is the closest location for maintenance but the yard doesn’t have spare parts for R46’s. Gotta Also keep in mind that labor costs go up if Concourse takes on another car class. Having R32’s on the (J) in exchange for more R179’s on the (C) solves nothing because you’ll still end up with a spare cars shortage and higher maintenance costs.

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1 hour ago, VIP said:

They don’t run those 46’s on the (B) because it goes to 145 and the Bronx. Let’s say the set needs some maintenance, concourse yard is the closest location for maintenance but the yard doesn’t have spare parts for R46’s. Gotta Also keep in mind that labor costs go up if Concourse takes on another car class. Having R32’s on the (J) in exchange for more R179’s on the (C) solves nothing because you’ll still end up with a spare cars shortage and higher maintenance costs.

Just like you had just done, I had mentioned that fact once before, but some fans don't want to hear it.   

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14 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

imo all they need is more cars to increase spare factor, I just don't get why they don't just run these on the (B). it would help alot. have most of the r68's on the (Q).

Them not running a small chunk of R32's is hurting them due to low spare factor of R46's. I know those borrowed R160's from Jamaica Went back so they only have 9833-9922 for the (N)(W).

 

IMO they should have kept the R32's on the (J)(Z) and just have the (C) be 100% R179 until the R211's enter service. Have those extra R46's go to Coney for spares.

We will just have to see what happens. I’m sure if things get worst than perhaps they will go ahead with the swap.

Edited by NewFlyer 230
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3 hours ago, VIP said:

They don’t run those 46’s on the (B) because it goes to 145 and the Bronx. Let’s say the set needs some maintenance, concourse yard is the closest location for maintenance but the yard doesn’t have spare parts for R46’s. Gotta Also keep in mind that labor costs go up if Concourse takes on another car class. Having R32’s on the (J) in exchange for more R179’s on the (C) solves nothing because you’ll still end up with a spare cars shortage and higher maintenance costs.

so let the r46's keep dropping like flies then. It's obvious that the r46's can't handle being run to death of 3 24/7 lines with low spares. They don't want R32's on the (A) , this is why i said the (J)(Z).

 

It's more dumb to run r46/179's on the (C) than it to be 100% r179. There's still over 200 r32's on property, all ENY need is 90 cars. They weren't short when they ran on the (J)(Z) and they only ran 2 r32's all day in the beginning.

 

2 hours ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

Just like you had just done, I had mentioned that fact once before, but some fans don't want to hear it.   

It's not about being a fan, The r46's are dropping left and right on the (N)(Q) lines. they need to come up with a better idea or it'll get worse. the original plan was for the R46's to be on the (B)(N)(W) lines but they changed the (B) for the (Q)

 

y'all kept saying the R46's wouldn't be a problem but now they are a big problem causing all types of issues on the (N)(Q)(W) lines in terms of delays and breakdowns.

 

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10 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

so let the r46's keep dropping like flies then. It's obvious that the r46's can't handle being run to death of 3 24/7 lines with low spares. They don't want R32's on the (A) , this is why i said the (J)(Z).

 

It's more dumb to run r46/179's on the (C) than it to be 100% r179. There's still over 200 r32's on property, all ENY need is 90 cars. They weren't short when they ran on the (J)(Z) and they only ran 2 r32's all day in the beginning.

 

It's not about being a fan, The r46's are dropping left and right on the (N)(Q) lines. they need to come up with a better idea or it'll get worse. the original plan was for the R46's to be on the (B)(N)(W) lines but they changed the (B) for the (Q)

 

y'all kept saying the R46's wouldn't be a problem but now they are a big problem causing all types of issues on the (N)(Q)(W) lines in terms of delays and breakdowns.

 

You got a valid point with the Cars experiencing more mechanical breakdowns than ever, but it’s the deferred maintenance by Jamaica yard initially is why the R46’s at coney Can’t perform regularly. I know we’ve seen a boat load of R68/A’s on the (Q) much more and they assigned the (N) to have the R160’s 

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28 minutes ago, VIP said:

You got a valid point with the Cars experiencing more mechanical breakdowns than ever, but it’s the deferred maintenance by Jamaica yard initially is why the R46’s at coney Can’t perform regularly. I know we’ve seen a boat load of R68/A’s on the (Q) much more and they assigned the (N) to have the R160’s 

I remember during the midpoint of the swap (June 2020-November 2020): the 9 10-car train of Siemens R160s were on both the (N)(W) and (Q) lines. Each uses at least 3-4 tech trains per line until they were switched out for the 9833-9922 Alstom package. That's when the assignment seen on the bulletin was placed as the leftover R160s to be on the (N)(W) and the (Q) to be R46 and R68/A. Maybe the Astoria terminal was to avoid some R68/As with mismatched signs and lines. 

Edited by Calvin
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35 minutes ago, Calvin said:

I remember during the midpoint of the swap (June 2020-November 2020): the 9 10-car train of Siemens R160s were on both the (N)(W) and (Q) lines. Each uses at least 3-4 tech trains per line until they were switched out for the 9833-9922 Alstom package. That's when the assignment seen on the bulletin was placed as the leftover R160s to be on the (N)(W) and the (Q) to be R46 and R68/A. Maybe the Astoria terminal was to avoid some R68/As with mismatched signs and lines. 

In my opinion the 89 R160's at C.I should be used instead of 89 more R46's. They should give 9943-9974 (32 cars) to Coney to run on the (Q). The more R160's that come in, the less the R46's will have to be used. And in 2025, we can kiss those R46's goodbye (they won't be missed)

 

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9 hours ago, Stormxx said:

In my opinion the 89 R160's at C.I should be used instead of 89 more R46's. They should give 9943-9974 (32 cars) to Coney to run on the (Q). The more R160's that come in, the less the R46's will have to be used. And in 2025, we can kiss those R46's goodbye (they won't be missed)

 

Sir, it’s 90 cars = 9 sets of R160’s not 89 and lastly, 9943-9974 are 4 car units of R160’s ...lol Can’t send those to Coney Island for the (Q) as it requires 600 ft cars in length not 480 ft. 

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1 hour ago, VIP said:

Sir, it’s 90 cars = 9 sets of R160’s not 89 and lastly, 9943-9974 are 4 car units of R160’s ...lol Can’t send those to Coney Island for the (Q) as it requires 600 ft cars in length not 480 ft. 

Oh wait. Yeah, you are right. My bad. Maybe 8653-8683. Point is, we need to retire those R46's STAT. R46's are breaking down left and right. Also, it wouldn't be a waste of time to send them R160's back, because sooner or later, every line is going to have CBTC. And in pre-pandemic levels, the (E)(F)<F> were blowing up, it wouldn't hurt to give Jamaica open gangways.

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Also here are my guesses for numbers (saying that the R32's are scrapped by then)

R211A base order- 4060-4499 (440)

R211T base order- 3350-3370 (20)

R211S- 670-745 (75)

R211 option order #1 (T or A)  3370-4010 (640)

R211 option order #2 (T or A) 4011-4059 (48) and 4500-4889 (389)

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2 hours ago, Stormxx said:

Also here are my guesses for numbers (saying that the R32's are scrapped by then)

R211A base order- 4060-4499 (440)

R211T base order- 3350-3370 (20)

R211S- 670-745 (75)

R211 option order #1 (T or A)  3370-4010 (640)

R211 option order #2 (T or A) 4011-4059 (48) and 4500-4889 (389)

The option 2 order consists of 32 cars in 4-car units and 405 cars in 5-car units. Shouldn’t your whole prediction be

R211A 4060-4499 (440)

R211T 3350-3369 (20) 

R211S 670-744 (75)

R211 option 1: 3370-4009 (640)

R211 Option 2: 4010-4059 (50), 4500-4854 (355), 4855-4886 (32)

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On 1/29/2021 at 10:19 AM, JeremiahC99 said:

The option 2 order consists of 32 cars in 4-car units and 405 cars in 5-car units. Shouldn’t your whole prediction be

R211A 4060-4499 (440)

R211T 3350-3369 (20) 

R211S 670-744 (75)

R211 option 1: 3370-4009 (640)

R211 Option 2: 4010-4059 (50), 4500-4854 (355), 4855-4886 (32)

Yes. An @VIP is right because why waste all of that money moving the 160's back to Coney when they've been installed with a specific package?

So in total the first priority is the (A), then the (N)(Q)(W), then the (C), then the (G). If there are any left give em to the (L) and (E)(F)(R).

The situation in Coney is messy (with the Jamaica old techs) but they need to make the (A) 100% tech first (R211T, anyone?) so if the R211T test goes well, there will probably be a lot of R211T's rather than R211As. So assign all of the A's to the (N)(Q)(W) instead. The R160's will probably stay in Jamaica.

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3 hours ago, jon2305 said:

Yes. Helvetica font just like the ones on the (1) & (6).

I think they did this recently. Around September at night, the standing poles are oval shaped but the rollsigns are the standard Terminal with Borough on the bottom. The LEDs <> and O are still intact, iirc. 

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On 2/19/2020 at 11:20 AM, T to Dyre Avenue said:

The fact is, the R46s have to run somewhere. It is too expensive to retrofit the R46s with the necessary components needed to interact with the Queens Blvd CBTC system. And since they’ll be on their way out in the next few years, why bother? Meanwhile the R160s and newer cars, which will be in service for years to come, were designed to be retrofitted with CBTC right from the start. 

...

Yep, this whole thing about the R46s “completely falling apart“ is just plain ridiculous. The side LCDs do have problems, yes. And they’ve had them for years. But the cars themselves still run fine, especially on those express runs. And they ride more comfortably than the newer R62 and R68 cars and look nicer on the inside too. And I’m glad to hear the R46s’ MDBF is much higher than that of the R40 and 42 cars at this stage of their service lives. They’ve come a long way since the days of the cracked Rockwell bogies that sidelined them 40 years ago. 

 

I think I’m going to have to take back what I posted here last year in light of the R46s’ more recent problems on the CI routes. What a difference a year makes, no? Though I still think they do look nicer on the inside than the R62s and R68s and have a more comfortable ride. Here’s hoping we can get enough funding to purchase enough option order cars to retire all of the R46s. 

Edited by T to Dyre Avenue
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