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Fleet Swap Discussion Thread


INDman

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And for the R262s order I believe that the 1 4 and 6 trains will receive these cars. And the 3 train will get the R142s. 
 

The common misconception will new rolling stock is that people believe they will directly replace the oldest train. Now just because the R211s and R262s are replacing the R44s R46s R62s and maybe R68s it doesn’t that they will only go on to the routes with the exact equipment. It could be an indirect replacement. Just saying I loved those older models but Boy when the R46s begin to retire we will then see the CLEAR DIFFERENCE with “real” railfans and “toxic” railfans”🤦🤦‍♂️ no offense intended but just being brutally honest here. 

By the way Im referring to the mature railfans AKA the true fans that wants what best for the MTA and want to see it actually improve Reliability and like train certain models but are mature and accept the fact that they won’t last forever and will need to retire soon. And sometimes they even come up with proposals to help out riders and customers of the MTA even if some “sacrifices” are necessary. 

And the inmature railfans that complain about the equipment retiring and tries to demand that the old equipment stays for all of eternity just for forming. They also demand that useless defunct train routes be restored for no good reason other than to film it. You know the fans that demand the R32s and R42s come back. Just saying

I’m worried that people will begin to rage and complain like it’s 2003 2008 and 2009 when the R211s replace the R46s and maybe R68s.

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3 minutes ago, Amiri the subway guy said:

 

And for the R262s order I believe that the 1 4 and 6 trains will receive these cars. And the 3 train will get the R142s. 
 

The common misconception will new rolling stock is that people believe they will directly replace the oldest train. Now just because the R211s and R262s are replacing the R44s R46s R62s and maybe R68s it doesn’t that they will only go on to the routes with the exact equipment. It could be an indirect replacement. Just saying I loved those older models but Boy when the R46s begin to retire we will then see the CLEAR DIFFERENCE with “real” railfans and “toxic” railfans”🤦🤦‍♂️ no offense intended but just being brutally honest here. 

By the way Im referring to the mature railfans AKA the true fans that wants what best for the MTA and want to see it actually improve Reliability and like train certain models but are mature and accept the fact that they won’t last forever and will need to retire soon. And sometimes they even come up with proposals to help out riders and customers of the MTA even if some “sacrifices” are necessary. 

And the inmature railfans that complain about the equipment retiring and tries to demand that the old equipment stays for all of eternity just for forming. They also demand that useless defunct train routes be restored for no good reason other than to film it. You know the fans that demand the R32s and R42s come back. Just saying

I’m worried that people will begin to rage and complain like it’s 2003 2008 and 2009 when the R211s replace the R46s and maybe R68s.

And with the R262 I believe they should go to the (2)(5) (6)(S) The (4) fleet unchanged and the (1)(3) would get the R142s reason for this. The (2)(5) share the same equipment they basically twin brothers/sisters and they are both CROWDED. sure the (1)(3) are packed but that’s NOTHING compared to the (2)(5)  they are by far the 2nd/3rd busiest IRT subway routes the only IRT route busier than them are the (7)   That’s just me. 

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Just now, Amiri the subway guy said:

And with the R262 I believe they should go to the (2)(5) (6)(S) The (4) fleet unchanged and the (1)(3) would get the R142s reason for this. The (2)(5) share the same equipment they basically twin brothers/sisters and they are both CROWDED. sure the (1)(3) are packed but that’s NOTHING compared to the (2)(5)  they are by far the 2nd/3rd busiest IRT subway routes the only IRT route busier than them are the (7)   That’s just me. 

And the (1)(3) finally get some new tech trains

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53 minutes ago, Amiri the subway guy said:

Would the (B) (D) (N) (Q)(W)  Or as I like to nickname it  the Coney Island gang get the R211s as well. Now I know this might make the MTA look stupid and fleet swap look pointless but I believe there’s a fair chance that the R211s will go to Queens Blvd Squad nickname for (E)(F)(R)  the (M) is also a member but it also uses 8 cars Cause I believe that queens blvd will likely want the “newest” train car fleet operating there with the CBTC system and the R211s has more capacity. If this happens then as least 50% of R160s on queens blvd will be reassigned to different train routes. 
 

For example 40% of R160s from the E train would go to the Q train

50% of R160s from the F train would go the B/D trains 

20% of R160s from the R train would go the N/W trains

that one scenario of the order happening 

But if all of the R160s Queens Blvd Squad were sent to the Coney Island Gang then they would be a benefit the (N)(Q)(W) would get their R160s back and the (B)(D) FINALLY gets New Tech Train cars. Well I feel the R68s/R68As should be replaced since it’s said they will remain in service until 2025–2030. Any thoughts about this 

The (M) is more of a friend that occasionally drops by once in a while and isn't based out of Jamaica. The (M) is only at Jamaica for storage purposes like the (D) and (F) is at Coney Island Yard and the same with the (B) at Concourse Yard. If needed, they'll do light maintenance, but that is pretty much it. I do not know if there is any room for 4 car units of R211's in the order options, it's a "wait and see" type of thing unfortunately. Even if they do have, I hear it's meant for the (L) since they'll be needing extra trains to run more service as they are pretty packed and would definitely benefit from the wider doors.

Again, I say there is a high probability of R211's going to Jamaica yard because QBL has a pretty high ridership and could benefit from the wider doors. That also means there is also a chance for them to not get because of the troubleshooting that Jamaica has been doing to the R160's for their CBTC. At least that was what I remembered and if that is true, I don't know if they want to go through all the trouble again in going through each R211 to make sure QBL runs smoothly.

If they Jamaica were to not get any R211's, they will definitely be going to Coney Island and in turn to Concourse. Coney Island would be a mix of R68/A's as well as R211's with Concourse being R211's only if they play it smart because of 8 Av CBTC. Assignments would go like this:

  • (B)(D) R211's only (again depends)
  • (G) R68/A's and R179 (only if the (C) actually runs full length)
  • (N)(Q)(W) R68/A's and R211's

Again, this is just my guess on what might happen if Jamaica doesn't get any R211's in the process which I highly doubt they'll pass on getting new trains. Riders along QBL whether express, local, or both always want the newest trains. It's why the (E) became fully R160's and the (F) for a time was mostly R160's with the occasional R46.

These are all just my guesses of where they would assign the R211's to after the Base Order has been completed.

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3 hours ago, Amiri the subway guy said:

 

And for the R262s order I believe that the 1 4 and 6 trains will receive these cars. And the 3 train will get the R142s. 
 

The common misconception will new rolling stock is that people believe they will directly replace the oldest train. Now just because the R211s and R262s are replacing the R44s R46s R62s and maybe R68s it doesn’t that they will only go on to the routes with the exact equipment. It could be an indirect replacement. Just saying I loved those older models but Boy when the R46s begin to retire we will then see the CLEAR DIFFERENCE with “real” railfans and “toxic” railfans”🤦🤦‍♂️ no offense intended but just being brutally honest here. 

By the way Im referring to the mature railfans AKA the true fans that wants what best for the MTA and want to see it actually improve Reliability and like train certain models but are mature and accept the fact that they won’t last forever and will need to retire soon. And sometimes they even come up with proposals to help out riders and customers of the MTA even if some “sacrifices” are necessary. 

And the inmature railfans that complain about the equipment retiring and tries to demand that the old equipment stays for all of eternity just for forming. They also demand that useless defunct train routes be restored for no good reason other than to film it. You know the fans that demand the R32s and R42s come back. Just saying

I’m worried that people will begin to rage and complain like it’s 2003 2008 and 2009 when the R211s replace the R46s and maybe R68s.

Railfans will complain about the R211s replacing the SMEEs. Way back when some railfans didn't like the SMEEs when new cause they replaced the prewar cars like the D Types, Standards, Arines, Low V's, etc. I wouldn't sweat as this hobby is for entertainment and some railfans find the NTT to be boring. We got fanners foaming over automated announcements lol, the discussions about the old cars were a lot more interesting IMO.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Vulturious said:

The (M) is more of a friend that occasionally drops by once in a while and isn't based out of Jamaica. The (M) is only at Jamaica for storage purposes like the (D) and (F) is at Coney Island Yard and the same with the (B) at Concourse Yard. If needed, they'll do light maintenance, but that is pretty much it. I do not know if there is any room for 4 car units of R211's in the order options, it's a "wait and see" type of thing unfortunately. Even if they do have, I hear it's meant for the (L) since they'll be needing extra trains to run more service as they are pretty packed and would definitely benefit from the wider doors.

Again, I say there is a high probability of R211's going to Jamaica yard because QBL has a pretty high ridership and could benefit from the wider doors. That also means there is also a chance for them to not get because of the troubleshooting that Jamaica has been doing to the R160's for their CBTC. At least that was what I remembered and if that is true, I don't know if they want to go through all the trouble again in going through each R211 to make sure QBL runs smoothly.

If they Jamaica were to not get any R211's, they will definitely be going to Coney Island and in turn to Concourse. Coney Island would be a mix of R68/A's as well as R211's with Concourse being R211's only if they play it smart because of 8 Av CBTC. Assignments would go like this:

  • (B)(D) R211's only (again depends)
  • (G) R68/A's and R179 (only if the (C) actually runs full length)
  • (N)(Q)(W) R68/A's and R211's

Again, this is just my guess on what might happen if Jamaica doesn't get any R211's in the process which I highly doubt they'll pass on getting new trains. Riders along QBL whether express, local, or both always want the newest trains. It's why the (E) became fully R160's and the (F) for a time was mostly R160's with the occasional R46.

These are all just my guesses of where they would assign the R211's to after the Base Order has been completed.

Coney Island still has R160s and ENY already has a bunch of R179s. If anything, I'd expect the R179s currently used for (C) service would shift to ENY and push out some of the R160s to CI for (G) service. Don't think current CBTC will certainly preclude this.

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20 hours ago, Lex said:

Coney Island still has R160s and ENY already has a bunch of R179s. If anything, I'd expect the R179s currently used for (C) service would shift to ENY and push out some of the R160s to CI for (G) service. Don't think current CBTC will certainly preclude this.

Unless The r179's have CBTC kits in them and they can run on the (M) with no issue then yea, The R160's could be pushed out. But If not those R160's got to stay because of (M) service. 8613-8652,9943-74 are the only ones that could move but that's not enough for full (G) service.

21 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

Railfans will complain about the R211s replacing the SMEEs. Way back when some railfans didn't like the SMEEs when new cause they replaced the prewar cars like the D Types, Standards, Arines, Low V's, etc. I wouldn't sweat as this hobby is for entertainment and some railfans find the NTT to be boring. We got fanners foaming over automated announcements lol, the discussions about the old cars were a lot more interesting IMO.

 

 

 

 

I'm not one of those complaining, It has to happen. We have too many old subway cars. If it were up to me everything in the B division would be a tech train so this way we avoid having to swap cars constantly due to CBTC. If the R211's are proven reliable, they need to add additional funding for a 3rd option order to replace the R68/68A fleet. Once this is all done, they can focus on upgrading other lines with CBTC and infrastructure. The IRT is fine with the R62/62A's since the IRT cars are all the same size and the R62/62A's are reliable as they can take their time with their replacements (R262's). 

 

now watch people say this is a bad idea.

Edited by R32 3838
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13 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

Unless The r179's have CBTC kits in them and they can run on the (M) with no issue then yea, The R160's could be pushed out. But If not those R160's got to stay because of (M) service. 8613-8652,9943-74 are the only ones that could move but that's not enough for full (G) service.

 

I'm not one of those complaining, It has to happen. We have too many old subway cars. If it were up to me everything in the B division would be a tech train so this way we avoid having to swap cars constantly due to CBTC. If the R211's are proven reliable, they need to add additional funding for a 3rd option order to replace the R68/68A fleet. Once this is all done, they can focus on upgrading other lines with CBTC and infrastructure. The IRT is fine with the R62/62A's since the IRT cars are all the same size and the R62/62A's are reliable as they can take their time with their replacements (R262's). 

 

now watch people say this is a bad idea.

What trains would you recommend the R211s and R262s go to and why

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On 8/8/2021 at 7:38 PM, Vulturious said:

The (M) is more of a friend that occasionally drops by once in a while and isn't based out of Jamaica. The (M) is only at Jamaica for storage purposes like the (D) and (F) is at Coney Island Yard and the same with the (B) at Concourse Yard. If needed, they'll do light maintenance, but that is pretty much it. I do not know if there is any room for 4 car units of R211's in the order options, it's a "wait and see" type of thing unfortunately. Even if they do have, I hear it's meant for the (L) since they'll be needing extra trains to run more service as they are pretty packed and would definitely benefit from the wider doors.

Again, I say there is a high probability of R211's going to Jamaica yard because QBL has a pretty high ridership and could benefit from the wider doors. That also means there is also a chance for them to not get because of the troubleshooting that Jamaica has been doing to the R160's for their CBTC. At least that was what I remembered and if that is true, I don't know if they want to go through all the trouble again in going through each R211 to make sure QBL runs smoothly.

If they Jamaica were to not get any R211's, they will definitely be going to Coney Island and in turn to Concourse. Coney Island would be a mix of R68/A's as well as R211's with Concourse being R211's only if they play it smart because of 8 Av CBTC. Assignments would go like this:

  • (B)(D) R211's only (again depends)
  • (G) R68/A's and R179 (only if the (C) actually runs full length)
  • (N)(Q)(W) R68/A's and R211's

Again, this is just my guess on what might happen if Jamaica doesn't get any R211's in the process which I highly doubt they'll pass on getting new trains. Riders along QBL whether express, local, or both always want the newest trains. It's why the (E) became fully R160's and the (F) for a time was mostly R160's with the occasional R46.

These are all just my guesses of where they would assign the R211's to after the Base Order has been completed.

The R211s 4 car set debate is an interesting idea. I propose two different scenarios of this happening

The R143 exchange program 

The R143s are in good condition so they shouldn’t be retired instead the R143s would be reassigned to the G train while the L trains get the R211s

 

The R179 lemon failure 

 

We all know that The R179s have been screwing up left and right. I believe one more major screw up like that and the entire R179s fleet will likely have to be prematurely retired much like the R44s and replaced by a special 4 car set R211s for the L train and the R143s and R160s go to the J/Z and M trains.    

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5 hours ago, Amiri the subway guy said:

The R211s 4 car set debate is an interesting idea. I propose two different scenarios of this happening

The R143 exchange program 

The R143s are in good condition so they shouldn’t be retired instead the R143s would be reassigned to the G train while the L trains get the R211s

 

The R179 lemon failure 

 

We all know that The R179s have been screwing up left and right. I believe one more major screw up like that and the entire R179s fleet will likely have to be prematurely retired much like the R44s and replaced by a special 4 car set R211s for the L train and the R143s and R160s go to the J/Z and M trains.    

The way you say the R143's "shouldn't" be retired gives me an impression that they were, wording is very important.

Moving on from that, the R179 for a good while has been pretty reliable. I haven't heard a thing about them screwing up since the whole Brakes incident which stopped being an issue after that. I think they're at the point of being reliable now just like the R142's which were also lemons, but now the most dependent fleet.

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On 8/9/2021 at 7:48 PM, R32 3838 said:

Unless The r179's have CBTC kits in them and they can run on the (M) with no issue then yea, The R160's could be pushed out. But If not those R160's got to stay because of (M) service. 8613-8652,9943-74 are the only ones that could move but that's not enough for full (G) service.

 

I'm not one of those complaining, It has to happen. We have too many old subway cars. If it were up to me everything in the B division would be a tech train so this way we avoid having to swap cars constantly due to CBTC. If the R211's are proven reliable, they need to add additional funding for a 3rd option order to replace the R68/68A fleet. Once this is all done, they can focus on upgrading other lines with CBTC and infrastructure. The IRT is fine with the R62/62A's since the IRT cars are all the same size and the R62/62A's are reliable as they can take their time with their replacements (R262's). 

 

now watch people say this is a bad idea.

I agree with you there railfans and formers are just gonna need to just deal with the fact that train cars don’t last forever. For the R262s you think they will be going on to the (1)(3)(6)(S)42nd Street since they have R62/As

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 8/8/2021 at 10:41 PM, trainfan22 said:

Railfans will complain about the R211s replacing the SMEEs. Way back when some railfans didn't like the SMEEs when new cause they replaced the prewar cars like the D Types, Standards, Arines, Low V's, etc. I wouldn't sweat as this hobby is for entertainment and some railfans find the NTT to be boring. We got fanners foaming over automated announcements lol, the discussions about the old cars were a lot more interesting IMO.

 

 

 

Lol, good. Ain’t nobody give a crap about their precious crappy ass R46s anyway. Things have to come to an end eventually.

All this love affair among these buffs with the R46s on the (N)(Q)(W) for nostalgia purposes, yet whining and bitching about where the R211s will go or why they have to replace those old junks.

As time goes on, the (MTA) has to get with the times anyway and avoid all this unnecessary swapping of cars systemwide.

Edited by Jemorie
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By numbers (units) of the 42nd St Shuttle: the 1-stop line has 29 cars. Somewhat, to 3 6-car trains with 1 6-car train and a 5-car spare that has LED signs. Some cars ending in 5/6, 0/1 have its cabs removed and converted to a bench for passengers like 1935. 

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  • 1 month later...

9853-9942 from the (N)(W) are in the process of trading mentioned above to the (G) Crosstown line. Any 4-car R46 and R68/A will be made together as 8 75 ft car trains to the (N)(Q)(W) BROADWAY. So, you may think that this is part 4 of the swap or the final piece of the chapter of the Jamaica-Coney Island fleet swap. 

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Are they trying to offload all the R46s onto the (N)(Q)(W) now? Because that would probably turn out to be an utter clusterf**k...

Seems to me the path of least resistance would simply be to put them on the (B)(D) lines. 

Edited by R10 2952
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9 hours ago, R10 2952 said:

Are they trying to offload all the R46s onto the (N)(Q)(W) now? Because that would probably turn out to be an utter clusterf**k...

Seems to me the path of least resistance would simply be to put them on the (B)(D) lines. 

But won’t they require Concourse to learn how to deal with them when they’re running bad already. I say as long as they’re functional to get passengers to point A to B we’ll just have to endure until the R211 delivery comes into play

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15 hours ago, Calvin said:

9853-9942 from the (N)(W) are in the process of trading mentioned above to the (G) Crosstown line. Any 4-car R46 and R68/A will be made together as 8 75 ft car trains to the (N)(Q)(W) BROADWAY. So, you may think that this is part 4 of the swap or the final piece of the chapter of the Jamaica-Coney Island fleet swap. 

So is the (G) returning to Jamaica ?

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4 minutes ago, R179 8258 said:

So is the (G) returning to Jamaica ?

I'm hearing, yes so they can be unified to 1 yard = 1 class model. But, there are words of spacing at Jamaica Yard so, at least next month or so, they'll be placed on the Avenue X side of Coney Island Yard (still counts as Jamaica Yard for the (F) ).  

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43 minutes ago, R179 8258 said:

But won’t they require Concourse to learn how to deal with them when they’re running bad already. I say as long as they’re functional to get passengers to point A to B we’ll just have to endure until the R211 delivery comes into play

They are functional. The chronic dead motor issue is the only thing really wrong with the CI R46s. They are not outright breaking down in the masses, theres no factual data saying that. Modern day railfans are so soft complaining about the R46s in their current state, the SMEEs prior to GOH were most likely a lot worse and covered in graffiti to boot. 

 

From a passenger prospective, only thing really wrong with the R46 is the weak A/C, but at least they not outright crapping out like the A/C on the R62As do for example. But the tech trains in general are much better than the older cars when it comes to the HVAC. 

 

Edited by trainfan22
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46 minutes ago, trainfan22 said:

They are functional. The chronic dead motor issue is the only thing really wrong with the CI R46s. They are not outright breaking down in the masses, theres no factual data saying that. Modern day railfans are so soft complaining about the R46s in their current state, the SMEEs prior to GOH were most likely a lot worse and covered in graffiti to boot. 

 

From a passenger prospective, only thing really wrong with the R46 is the weak A/C, but at least they not outright crapping out like the A/C on the R62As do for example. But the tech trains in general are much better than the older cars when it comes to the HVAC. 

 

I'm not a railfan... Just a regular commuter. I cringe every time I take one of those trains. Door closes very slowly. AC is bad. Floors are warped and quite frankly, feel weak in certain parts. I would argue that lines like the (R) would actually perform better if they used different fleet. I don't follow that closely to know when these cars will be retired, but the (MTA) has definitely got their usefulness out of them and then some. I believe these are also on the (Q). I forget thinking about the newer cars that the (Q) used to have and am painfully reminded when I see one rolling into the station. 

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13 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I'm not a railfan... Just a regular commuter. I cringe every time I take one of those trains. Door closes very slowly. AC is bad. Floors are warped and quite frankly, feel weak in certain parts. I would argue that lines like the (R) would actually perform better if they used different fleet. I don't follow that closely to know when these cars will be retired, but the (MTA) has definitely got their usefulness out of them and then some. I believe these are also on the (Q). I forget thinking about the newer cars that the (Q) used to have and am painfully reminded when I see one rolling into the station. 

Prior to the swap, the R46s from Jamaica Yard (currently at Coney Island Yard for the (N)(Q)(W)) were better on the (R) for operational reasons.

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1 hour ago, trainfan22 said:

They are functional. The chronic dead motor issue is the only thing really wrong with the CI R46s. They are not outright breaking down in the masses, theres no factual data saying that. Modern day railfans are so soft complaining about the R46s in their current state, the SMEEs prior to GOH were most likely a lot worse and covered in graffiti to boot. 

 

From a passenger prospective, only thing really wrong with the R46 is the weak A/C, but at least they not outright crapping out like the A/C on the R62As do for example. But the tech trains in general are much better than the older cars when it comes to the HVAC. 

 

So basically it’s just Father Time. Every train age and bound to have issues. Someone on the forum says that Jamaica knew how to handle the R46s , which were to have them service a part time line which is the (R)  I’ve rode them a couple of times on the (R) and no issues. The reality (swap finger use the Reality Stone) Jamaica isn’t the cause of the state of the R46s. 2. Yeah Pitkin ones are Better but they have R179s to give there R46s a break. CI has the R68 classes but but it’s split among 4 lines (NWQG). And last but not least. FATHER TIME  THE age of the R46s are coming to and end. Look how many times MTA SMS (think that the right Acronym) the R32 but they still had PROBLEMS along the way. The Foamers and Railfan has to understand these points. The R46s age is coming to an end because they’re old

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