Fleet Swap Discussion Thread

[JayJay85]

On 8/17/2022 at 10:09 PM, VIP said:

The  has 2-3 sets of 68A’s in rotation. The  has about 1-2, down from 4-6 sets. Yard dispatchers are keeping the 68/68A’s from the  stored at Stillwell yard which makes it easier to swap with the  layups. There’s 7-8 sets Regularly in service on the  up from the 2-4 sets of Put ins. 

The R46 should have been went on the  instead of the  .

[Calvin]

32 minutes ago, JayJay85 said:

The R46 should have been went on the  instead of the  .

They should, as a suggestion to the MTA. But, the problem is Concourse Yard's management wanting only R68 and R68A for the Yard lay-up. Otherwise, the  trains out of C.I and Stillwell Yard rotates some of their sets from the  and  during the weekend. 

Edited August 23, 2022 by Calvin

[RandomRider0101]

6 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

I'm not looking at this from a railfan's point a view. I hate when people think that. I don't want to screwed because the idiots at 2 Broadway keep making dumb decisions while our local politicians are pushing for congestion pricing when we are still short on subway cars and staff. It's not my fault that didn't order enough cars when they had the chance. They had a chance to order more R160 cars but didn't. They could have added additional R179s (they got 16 cars for free) but they didn't. That's why the R32s lasted as long as they did.

 

You guys clearly don't get it at all. I don't want to deal with another 6-10 year car shortage because of Bullshit decisions , We are in 2022 and the f**king train is still short and you have mixed length trains running around. This shouldn't be the case, Ridership will bounce right back up once they do congestion pricing because low income and semi middle class people will be forced to take the subway by default since its the cheaper option.

Y'all sit here and want all these things to improve transit but without doing it right. Everyone wants congestion pricing but don't understand the negatives due to shitty management at . 

has a history of over scrapping trains and not replacing them and we get screwed.

 

And the bullshit about low ridership, People said this in 2010 and the shit bounced right up soon after the cuts. In reality they had no choice but to cut service because of the R44 retirement, Them merging the helped which in turn helped retire the R44's without replacement until the returned in 2016 and 2nd ave opened requiring more cars in which Concourse had to give up a set or two of their R68s and Jamaica giving up 2 R160s and pitkin giving up 2 R46s to Jamaica.

 

The R211 order is meant to fix all of these issues on top of replacing the already retired remaining R32s and the entire R46 fleet plus additional cars for fleet growth. The only issue is that the order is delayed which is no surprise due to the pandemic.

 

The point I was trying to make in my last statement is that it isn't fair to insult riders over something they don't know. The average rider knows nothing about a subway car shortage. I myself knew nothing of a car shortage until recently. After reading many comments and listening to people explain what happened, now I understand why.

I get where you're coming from, but remember this is the  we're talking about. What did you really expect them to do especially in the current situation? We're still dealing with this pandemic which has caused severe staff shortages and lower ridership, neither of which has fully recovered yet. They're currently hiring and training more staff, while the car shortage is only an issue right now because they're still trying to run full service, despite the ridership just not being there right now. Service cuts are inevitable at this point, unless they can get more money to fund current service. I highly doubt that ridership will fully recover by the time enough R211s are in service to solve the 'subway car shortage', but we'll see.

I definitely agree that the  should be full length, and the  should probably be 8-cars, but that will happen in due time. We have to wait and see what happens with this R211 order, which hopefully goes as smoothly as possible.

[zacster]

On 8/23/2022 at 7:12 AM, RandomRider0101 said:

I definitely agree that the  should be full length, and the  should probably be 8-cars, but that will happen in due time. We have to wait and see what happens with this R211 order, which hopefully goes as smoothly as possible.

Too late for that.  They are how late already?  A year and a half?

[RandomRider0101]

6 hours ago, zacster said:

Too late for that.  They are how late already?  A year and a half?

You make a good point, although I was referring to when the cars finally hit service (which should be later this year as long as there are no further delays). 

We really don't need a repeat of what happened with the R179 order. But the difference with the R179 & R211 delays is that the R211 delays have mainly been caused by the pandemic, while the R179 delays were mainly caused by Bombardier. 

IMO, the R179s aren't bad cars since they can be fixed. Bombardier's overall incompetence as a rail builder is what couldn't be fixed, and that's why they had to leave the railcar business. Hopefully Kawasaki doesn't meet the same fate, at least not anytime soon. They're currently one of only two qualified builders now (the other being Alstom) that are willing to work with NYCT.

[Vulturious]

10 minutes ago, RandomRider0101 said:

You make a good point, although I was referring to when the cars finally hit service (which should be later this year as long as there are no further delays). 

Here's hoping you didn't speak too soon.

[N6 Limited]

On 8/18/2022 at 1:54 AM, NewFlyer 230 said:Riding the  and  towards Jamaica after  midnight is brutal. Took over an hour to get from 34th street to Forest Hills because of late night track work. They should have some cross honoring system with the LIRR overnights when this mess goes on because this for real doubles and sometimes even triples commute times because of missed bus cnnections. 
 

That is why I take the LIRR now, constant QBL abuse.  After about 9PM its better to just go to Penn Station for the LIRR. I thought the delays were due to CBTC installation, so recently I took the  later in the evening, but while it still runs express. I started having flashbacks, not worth it.

On 8/18/2022 at 1:57 AM, R32 3838 said:

I'm used to it, This is why it's better to take the Q60 at night. But nothing is worse than missing the train at 9pm at night and waiting between 15 to 30 mins.

Going to Forest Hills? Have you tried going to the next express stop and backtracking? I say this because the  sucks on weekends and I’ve made faster trips to local stops that way (using train time as guidance).

On 8/18/2022 at 1:35 PM, CenSin said:

For a trunk line that’s better served than some of those in Manhattan, the difference is like night and day (pun intended).

On 8/22/2022 at 10:05 AM, NewFlyer 230 said:

They do cross honor rides but that is usually for usual more extreme cases like that G.O a few years back when the  and  were terminated at Forest Hills or last fall when the whole line was shut down in Queens due to some type of signal failure. 

However they never seem to do it for the late night G.O’s and it’s stinks because the LIRR mirrors the Queens Blvd Express for the most part. That’s when service is brutal and I can’t help but think about those who commute from the city at 12/1am for example but then need to take the n6 bus into Nassau. The MTA needs to do better that is all I say or else more people will drive, use Uber, bike and etc and I don’t blame them. It is bad enough the  become a hotel at night and we just have to sit and deal with them folks on a slow commute back home. 

I always miss my bus connection to the Q64 so at that time of night so I always end up having to wait literally 27-29 mins because I always get to Forest Hills the same time the bus leaves. The sad thing is that they expect more people to use public transportation but honestly who wants to deal with potentially having your commute extended by an hour because of construction. This is why people have been finding alternate means of transportation.

Exactly, They should start using holding lights again or integrate train time into late nite bus service. I started taking the LIRR to Queens Village, then catch the N6 at Springfield. The timing used to be almost perfect.

On 8/22/2022 at 12:23 PM, biGC323232 said:

Wow the  still run like that....You would think by now they would have fixed the overnight slowdowns..I get u have to do the neccesary work but dam its been like this for like 15 years and with the new cars and signals nothing got better over there it seems...I been stop taken both whenever i have to go to jamaica that time of night...I either take lirr from Penn station for the extra few bucks or use the or to the 

Exactly, Defaulted to LIRR, but tried the  as well, no nite Trackwork on ELs made for smooth ride.

I have a couple of Quoted posts I didn’t comment on, formatting is not behaving.

8 hours ago, jon2305 said:

[R32 3838]

On 8/24/2022 at 11:18 PM, N6 Limited said:

That is why I take the LIRR now, constant QBL abuse.  After about 9PM its better to just go to Penn Station for the LIRR. I thought the delays were due to CBTC installation, so recently I took the  later in the evening, but while it still runs express. I started having flashbacks, not worth it.

Going to Forest Hills? Have you tried going to the next express stop and backtracking? I say this because the  sucks on weekends and I’ve made faster trips to local stops that way (using train time as guidance).

Exactly, They should start using holding lights again or integrate train time into late nite bus service. I started taking the LIRR to Queens Village, then catch the N6 at Springfield. The timing used to be almost perfect.

Exactly, Defaulted to LIRR, but tried the  as well, no nite Trackwork on ELs made for smooth ride.

I have a couple of Quoted posts I didn’t comment on, formatting is not behaving.

 

During the week and on weekends. The issue is that they cut service after 9pm so when I'm in the City coming home, I'm usually near the train so when i miss one, The next one is 20 mins away due to the crew shortage. So even if I backtrack from forest hills to 63rd drive southbound, There's no point since I'll still have to wait for that train to leave or show up. And I'm not gonna travel from 14th st USQ to 60th and 2nd for the Q60 unless I finish my deliveries in that area.

[RandomRider0101]

On 8/24/2022 at 6:06 PM, Vulturious said:

Here's hoping you didn't speak too soon.

I'm not making any promises or guarantees; I'm just hoping for the best, that's all. Considering everything that's happened already and with the current state that things are in now, we really need these cars to be reliable.

No normal person wants to see these cars fail; only the extremist foamers obsessed with old equipment, no matter how bad the equipment is.

[R32 3838]

On 8/28/2022 at 12:08 AM, RandomRider0101 said:

I'm not making any promises or guarantees; I'm just hoping for the best, that's all. Considering everything that's happened already and with the current state that things are in now, we really need these cars to be reliable.

No normal person wants to see these cars fail; only the extremist foamers obsessed with old equipment, no matter how bad the equipment is.

Trust Me, We all want these cars to come in on time but there will be factors on why they are delayed. Resources is one of the main reasons. The Pandemic screwed up everything and since these trains are rolling computers. They need chips and in 2020-to the present day, There is still a shortage of them. It's improved now but then you have inflation which is costing things to go up. Then you have the plant workers at kawasaki quitting because they want better pay which makes things like quality control worse. The was just too stupid to understand the situation until reality slapped them real hard in the face. Option Order I/II cars might cost more money due to inflation unless the cars are paid for already. 

 

With all of these issues, It wouldn't surprise me if Kawasaki exits the market. The Japanese Yen has taken a nosedive as well (going a bit off topic) Is why recently the PS5 went up in price outside the US just to maintain some sort of profit. 

Edited August 30, 2022 by R32 3838

[RandomRider0101]

5 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

Trust Me, We all want these cars to come in on time but there will be factors on why they are delayed. Resources is one of the main reasons. The Pandemic screwed up everything and since these trains are rolling computers. They need chips and in 2020-to the present day, There is still a shortage of them. It's improved now but then you have inflation which is costing things to go up. Then you have the plant workers at kawasaki quitting because they want better pay which makes things like quality control worse. The was just too stupid to understand the situation until reality slapped them real hard in the face. Option Order I/II cars might cost more money due to inflation unless the cars are paid for already. 

 

With all of these issues, It wouldn't surprise me if Kawasaki exits the market. The Japanese Yen has taken a nosedive as well (going a bit off topic) Is why recently the PS5 went up in price outside the US just to maintain some sort of profit. 

Yea, all this is pretty unfortunate to hear. If Kawasaki does end up leaving the rail market after the R211s, we'll be lucky if they leave us with ultra-reliable cars. I know I say this alot, but hopefully Kawasaki doesn't go out as badly as Bombardier went out after the R179s.

[R179 8258]

On 8/23/2022 at 1:02 AM, Calvin said:

They should, as a suggestion to the MTA. But, the problem is Concourse Yard's management wanting only R68 and R68A for the Yard lay-up. Otherwise, the  trains out of C.I and Stillwell Yard rotates some of their sets from the  and  during the weekend. 

Can you help me understand why Concourse only wants 68s not 46s ? Besides if a train breaks down

[Calvin]

1 minute ago, R179 8258 said:

Can you help me understand why Concourse only wants 68s not 46s ? Besides if a train breaks down

Concourse Yard currently has the maintenance parts that's applied to the R68 and R68A class type. The parts on the R46 is separate and cannot be used/maintained that Concourse Yard is capable of. 

[biGC323232]

9 hours ago, Calvin said:

Concourse Yard currently has the maintenance parts that's applied to the R68 and R68A class type. The parts on the R46 is separate and cannot be used/maintained that Concourse Yard is capable of. 

I always found that to be a bizarre reason why 46s shouldnt run on the B...There only will be a few sets the most stored there not all or just store the 68s that will run on the B there and the 46s south of brighton and coney....Whats the chances those few set(if they are 46s) gonna need all these parts concourse cant supply...IJS

[LGA Link N Train]

Ima throw out an Open Ended question for you all. What Rolling Stock Speculations between 2018 and now have we gotten correct and which ones have we missed?

[Reptile]

On 10/5/2022 at 6:24 PM, LGA Link N Train said:

Ima throw out an Open Ended question for you all. What Rolling Stock Speculations between 2018 and now have we gotten correct and which ones have we missed?

I remember there were a lot of wild ones (someone said R32 and trains once), but I think we predicted the R160s on the . Of course many predictions in 2018 involved what would happen to R32s in their last days so most speculations were influenced by that

[zacster]

I rode an R160 Q train today.  It was the first time in a very long time that I've even seen one.  Car number was 9185 I think.  I thought they were completely gone from the N/Q/W.

[Vulturious]

19 minutes ago, zacster said:

I rode an R160 Q train today.  It was the first time in a very long time that I've even seen one.  Car number was 9185 I think.  I thought they were completely gone from the N/Q/W.

The  still gets an R160 from the  during AM rush. An  train would go to 96 St and come back down as the  to Coney and deadhead to Coney Island Yard.

[VIP]

5 hours ago, Vulturious said:

The  still gets an R160 from the  during AM rush. An  train would go to 96 St and come back down as the  to Coney and deadhead to Coney Island Yard.

9183-87/8687-8683 was on the  all morning. Up until mid afternoon actually. They were short a train so the dispatcher kept that R160 in service for extra trips. 

[darkstar8983]

5 hours ago, VIP said:

9183-87/8687-8683 was on the  all morning. Up until mid afternoon actually. They were short a train so the dispatcher kept that R160 in service for extra trips. 

Yeah this is being more commonplace where they:

1. The 96 St-2 Av  trip R160 that changes into a  train is now making more than just that one southbound trip.

2. Using an R160 on the  that starts from 86 St and makes four trips (one  to Astoria and 3  trips)

[Calvin]

1 hour ago, darkstar8983 said:

Yeah this is being more commonplace where they:

1. The 96 St-2 Av  trip R160 that changes into a  train is now making more than just that one southbound trip.

2. Using an R160 on the  that starts from 86 St and makes four trips (one  to Astoria and 3  trips)

At times, it's needed asap to arrive at Coney Island around noon hours. The tripper to Coney Island is a one-tripper on the  leaving Coney Island Yard at either the PM rush hour or for a departure leaving 36 St-4 Av 1:30 PM. The  that used the R160 from the  gets turned to its own route from 36 St-4 Av to Forest Hills and goes back to Bay Ridge. It goes out of service back to Coney Island Yard upon arrival.

Edited October 12, 2022 by Calvin

[R32 3838]

On 10/8/2022 at 4:08 PM, Reptile said:

I remember there were a lot of wild ones (someone said R32 and trains once), but I think we predicted the R160s on the . Of course many predictions in 2018 involved what would happen to R32s in their last days so most speculations were influenced by that

That was actually going to happen due to the   shutdown that got canceled later on. The would have been R46s and full length R179s. The would have been what it is now 100% tech trains. The would have been 100% R160s as it is now along with the (The R46/160 swap was going to happen earlier than late 2019). The would have been a mix of 8 car R32s and R160s or R179s. The would have been a mixture of R32s,R42s,R46s and R68s.

 

As much as thought back then this would have been stupid, It made sense because the wouldn't be affected by the shutdown and it was the only logical place to put the R32 and R42 fleet instead of keeping them on the     lines which needed a more reliable fleet due to the shutdown. Plus the is a part time line. The having the R32s to run with the 8 car techs would have been mainly due to the R32 fleet being at CIY instead of having the fleet in 2 yards.

 

Making the 100% tech at that time would have made sense due to the fact that line goes near the affected areas of the line.

 

Also the R160s started appearing on the and lines in early 2010, So They been on the since then, From 2010-2015 there were about 2-4 R160s on the then around 2016 or 2017 they started using the R160s on the on weekends from Jamaica yard ( Laid up R160s) making the half and Half on weekends and during the week about the same 2 to 4 sets.

 

 

[Reptile]

2 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

That was actually going to happen due to the   shutdown that got canceled later on. The would have been R46s and full length R179s. The would have been what it is now 100% tech trains. The would have been 100% R160s as it is now along with the (The R46/160 swap was going to happen earlier than late 2019). The would have been a mix of 8 car R32s and R160s or R179s. The would have been a mixture of R32s,R42s,R46s and R68s.

 

As much as thought back then this would have been stupid, It made sense because the wouldn't be affected by the shutdown and it was the only logical place to put the R32 and R42 fleet instead of keeping them on the     lines which needed a more reliable fleet due to the shutdown. Plus the is a part time line. The having the R32s to run with the 8 car techs would have been mainly due to the R32 fleet being at CIY instead of having the fleet in 2 yards.

 

Making the 100% tech at that time would have made sense due to the fact that line goes near the affected areas of the line.

 

Also the R160s started appearing on the and lines in early 2010, So They been on the since then, From 2010-2015 there were about 2-4 R160s on the then around 2016 or 2017 they started using the R160s on the on weekends from Jamaica yard ( Laid up R160s) making the half and Half on weekends and during the week about the same 2 to 4 sets.

 

 

Ah the train shutdown - I was wondering where those R32/R42 theories came from now its coming back to me. I suppose those cars wouldn't be around for much longer so they would spend the rest of their days on the .

[Around the Horn]

3 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

From 2010-2015 there were about 2-4 R160s on the then around 2016 or 2017 they started using the R160s on the on weekends from Jamaica yard ( Laid up R160s) making the half and Half on weekends and during the week about the same 2 to 4 sets.

On a side note, it wouldn't surprise me if CIY does this with the and on weekends once the gets techs for 6th Av CBTC.

[darkstar8983]

7 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

On a side note, it wouldn't surprise me if CIY does this with the and on weekends once the gets techs for 6th Av CBTC.

They might see an occasional R160 (from the ‘s fleet) aside from their own, but not as many as you might think since some of the fleet is parked in concourse yard for the AM-rush trips that begin at Bedford Park Blvd early AM, and the fact that some of the trains actually have to rest too, since the line IS out of service weekends anyways