Fleet Swap Discussion Thread

[Snowblock]

LOL it looks like the R32 is not wanted anymore.

Nah, the customers are just morons. That's nothing new.

[MHV9218]

Well, yes they are. Every time a R160 on the comes, people jump on board, even the Riders. But when an R32 comes in, people wait for the next one. This is from my personal experience.

 

People are passing up trains to get a newer one? I find that a little hard to believe. Railfans do that, not straphangers...

[realizm]

Nah, the customers are just morons. That's nothing new.

 

Admittedly (I said this before) even as a straphanger i will have to personally say that many strap-hangers are incredibly rude and have no etiquette whatsoever where it comes to other passengers or MTA transit workers. I got stories about how ridiculous some passengers can get. One time (nothing new) on a train I boarded the T/O had to dispatch the C/R to call in the NYPD because of a man who threatened to shoot me and then pulled out a knife. Of course in a subconcious jerk reaction, I chased him through cars ready to beat him to the floor senseless in response. then he tells the passengers in the next train that I'm the one harrassing him. Scumbag.

 

The T/O witnessed this in it's entirety and was thankfully on my side explaining this to the undercover police officers. That man was arrested, the T/O said "be safe man" and the train was on it's way, albeit excessively delayed because of this fool that threatened me. This happened on the .

 

The reason this happened was because this same man threatened to fight me and stalked me in a different boro, in Jamaica Queens. So he recognized me on the CI bound train on the BMT 4th Ave and started making physical threats against me again, as I was simply reading my physics book and notes studying for a midterm.

Edited August 3, 2013 by realizm

[ttcsubwayfan]

Nah, the customers are just morons. That's nothing new.

Haha... YES.

 

I have never understood their need to actively avoid old rolling stock. I find myself satisfied with just about any vehicle equipped with ac, and when I find myself on a vehicle without I don't blame the vehicle but rather the agency (Bratislava got new trolleys as late as 2008 without ac, even though I am reasonably certain they could.) Don't give a shit if the vehicle is from 1912 or 2777 as long as it has ac.

[VIP]

I remember back when R143's ran on the on a pretty regular basis......

 

Are the R160's on the popular enough that the whole train doesn't jump ship anymore whenever an and connect at 14 St?

the 4 times that ive Ridden on the R160 i havent seen passengers abandon ship, in fact I see riders bailing off the R46 to grab a seat on the and in addition, ive heard riders say "oh its the new one, great" when they see an R160 pull in...or "oh f*** its the old one" when an R32 screeches in

[VIP]

People are passing up trains to get a newer one? I find that a little hard to believe. Railfans do that, not straphangers...

try Jamaica Center when theres both R32 and R160 at the terminal and the R32 being the "next train" to leave first, youll see how many people post up in an R160 Subway car than a R32. Rush hour is a bit different we cant compare.

[R62AR33]

try Jamaica Center when theres both R32 and R160 at the terminal and the R32 being the "next train" to leave first, youll see how many people post up in an R160 Subway car than a R32. Rush hour is a bit different we cant compare.

Or shockingly if at Jamaica theres and R32 or R42 the R32 can be leaving first and ull see more people on the R42. Like honestly who cares if the train is old or new ,its still getting you to where ever you need to go . So just take the train smh.

Edited August 4, 2013 by R62AR33

[VIP]

Or shockingly if at Jamaica theres and R32 or R42 the R32 can be leaving first and ull see more people on the R42. Like honestly who cares if the train is old or new ,its still getting you to where ever you need to go . So just take the train smh.

Exactly. I think the NTTs just make the older rolling stock less appealing, thats it. Quite frankly I dont mind R32s or R42s just as long as the AC is working and it runs, i could care less

[R62AR33]

Exactly. I think the NTTs just make the older rolling stock less appealing, thats it. Quite frankly I dont mind R32s or R42s just as long as the AC is working and it runs, i could care less

Honestly before the NTTs came people were riding the R32s and R42s no issues, i do not see the difference now that they have NTTs the R32s and R42s still run as good as they did . Most R32s and R42s are performing even better than some R160s on the and wich i think is just a shame , without the remaining R32s and R42s the would be screwed cause they are whats covering for all of the R160s that are not doing well and that are breaking down .

Edited August 4, 2013 by R62AR33

[MHV9218]

try Jamaica Center when theres both R32 and R160 at the terminal and the R32 being the "next train" to leave first, youll see how many people post up in an R160 Subway car than a R32. Rush hour is a bit different we cant compare.

 

 

Or shockingly if at Jamaica theres and R32 or R42 the R32 can be leaving first and ull see more people on the R42. Like honestly who cares if the train is old or new ,its still getting you to where ever you need to go . So just take the train smh.

 

Dunno guys, I'm at Jamaica Center a lot and I've been in both of those situations (R32-R42 just yesterday) and I've never seen that happen (this is off peak too), people go for the first train leaving.

[AndrewJC]

It didn't have to do with the old routing; it was simply the time before the 160's arrived. Once they did, then the 143's were gone for good. (and the old routing would continue for a few more years).

 

The R143's only ran on the weekend OPTO shuttle, because R42's aren't OPTO-compatible. As you say, once the R160's arrived, there was no need to use R143's on the M shuttle.

 

Well, yes they are. Every time a R160 on the comes, people jump on board, even the Riders. But when an R32 comes in, people wait for the next one. This is from my personal experience.

 

I highly doubt that. People ride the subway to get from point A to point B. If the C train that pulls in is the best way for them to get there, they'll take it. If not, they won't.

 

People are passing up trains to get a newer one? I find that a little hard to believe. Railfans do that, not straphangers...

 

Exactly.

 

Admittedly (I said this before) even as a straphanger i will have to personally say that many strap-hangers are incredibly rude and have no etiquette whatsoever where it comes to other passengers or MTA transit workers. I got stories about how ridiculous some passengers can get. One time (nothing new) on a train I boarded the T/O had to dispatch the C/R to call in the NYPD because of a man who threatened to shoot me and then pulled out a knife. Of course in a subconcious jerk reaction, I chased him through cars ready to beat him to the floor senseless in response. then he tells the passengers in the next train that I'm the one harrassing him. Scumbag.

 

The T/O witnessed this in it's entirety and was thankfully on my side explaining this to the undercover police officers. That man was arrested, the T/O said "be safe man" and the train was on it's way, albeit excessively delayed because of this fool that threatened me. This happened on the .

 

The reason this happened was because this same man threatened to fight me and stalked me in a different boro, in Jamaica Queens. So he recognized me on the CI bound train on the BMT 4th Ave and started making physical threats against me again, as I was simply reading my physics book and notes studying for a midterm.

 

How did the midterm go?

 

try Jamaica Center when theres both R32 and R160 at the terminal and the R32 being the "next train" to leave first, youll see how many people post up in an R160 Subway car than a R32. Rush hour is a bit different we cant compare.

 

And waste ten minutes of their life? No. Railfans do that. Regular subway riders don't.

 

Or shockingly if at Jamaica theres and R32 or R42 the R32 can be leaving first and ull see more people on the R42. Like honestly who cares if the train is old or new ,its still getting you to where ever you need to go . So just take the train smh.

 

Again, no.

[realizm]

@ Andrew JC: Got a B+ as the final grade. Could have got the A but I skipped a lab. Oops.

[Far Rock Depot]

I really dont understand why some heads here claim that riders will favor an NTT over a SMEE. As AndrewJC stated, thats a railfan thing. Please stop claiming this. The only time I can see this happening is if the next train is already crowded and some riders will prefer waiting an extra ten minutes rather than stand for their ride. THIS I have seen. Same thing with the A and C lines. If you can afford to kill off a few minutes, one may be more likey to ride the C for a seat than crush into and A. 160 or not. 

[LTA1992]

Kathleen Campion. She's also the primary voice of the A and F lines and the Rockaway Park & Franklin Ave shuttles.

I hate that lady's voice. She sounds like she has a frog stuck in her throat.

[realizm]

I really dont understand why some heads here claim that riders will favor an NTT over a SMEE. As AndrewJC stated, thats a railfan thing. Please stop claiming this. The only time I can see this happening is if the next train is already crowded and some riders will prefer waiting an extra ten minutes rather than stand for their ride. THIS I have seen. Same thing with the A and C lines. If you can afford to kill off a few minutes, one may be more likey to ride the C for a seat than crush into and A. 160 or not. 

 

+1 for that response. I personally feel the same way as many straphangers. As long as the train I am boarding is not crushloaded to the max, has no A/C, or some strange man in a hockey goaltender mask with a reved up chainsaw lurking in the car, I will board the car and continue my commute regardless of the fleet type of the car consist. it doesn't matter to me. 

[KTrainExp]

I really dont understand why some heads here claim that riders will favor an NTT over a SMEE. As AndrewJC stated, thats a railfan thing.

 

This is true, but only to an extent. Of course every rider (discluding railfanners) will ride the first train they see. As for the instances in which you see passengers purposely avoiding one train just to ride another, I'm willing to bet that occurs only when special circumstances such as stench, rowdy passengers, skip stop service, poor A/C, ect. occurs.

 

However, you must be downright stupid to not prefer an NTT or a 75 footer over a 60ft SMEE generation train. There is simply no reason as to why a person wouldn't prefer to see an NTT. If one comes by, then its a bonus. If a SMEE pulls up, oh well. However, you must acknowledge the fact that people prefer NEW things. It is the extent to which we are willing to give up commuter time which is in question, and in the majority of cases, the answer is NO, but to blantly say that people don't care at all if an NTT pulls up is false though.

Edited August 7, 2013 by KTrainExp

[RollOver]

 

However, you must be downright stupid to not prefer an NTT or a 75 footer over a 60ft SMEE generation train. There is simply no reason as to why a person wouldn't prefer to see an NTT. If one comes by, then its a bonus. If an SMEE pulls up, oh well. However, you must acknowledge the fact that people prefer NEW things. It is the extent to which we are willing to give up commuter time which is in question, and in the majority of cases, the answer is NO, but to bluntly say that people don't care at all if an NTT pulls up is false though.

 

Would it be downright stupid of me (or any other people in this thread) if I or they personally prefer an R62 over an R142 on the IRT A Division or an R32 over an R160 on the IND/BMT B Division (which is also a railfan thing too)?

 

I'm not sure what you mean or referring to though, but most average customers basically care about getting from point A to point B. Take this for example, after Sandy hit, the R62s operated on the Brooklyn portion of the route until its entire line to the other end was restored. No one on the Livonia Avenue/Eastern Parkway lines complained about the equipment being on their line. Some riders even said the trains brought back good memories growing up riding them over the trains with no A/C back in the 70s and 80s era.

 

People may prefer new things, but what are they going to do? Last I checked, riders aren't badmouthing about the R32s being on their line nor would they pass it up for an R160 like MHV and Far Rock said.

 

And even if certain riders would prefer an SMEE over an NTT, how would make them downright stupid? Whenever I'm on the A Division, I ride the , and more often than the other numbered lines simply because I like the SMEE. Everyone has their own opinion and personal taste. On the B Division, I often ride the and with their old fleet and I prefer them over the new cars but never would that make me be downright stupid.

Edited August 7, 2013 by RollOverMyHead

[tvega961]

As long as it has good A/C in the summer, and heat in the winter, ill ride it.

(Unless there is an xxclusive train on a line then i'll wait for it lol)

[AndrewJC]

This is true, but only to an extent. Of course every rider (discluding railfanners) will ride the first train they see. As for the instances in which you see passengers purposely avoiding one train just to ride another, I'm willing to bet that occurs only when special circumstances such as stench, rowdy passengers, skip stop service, poor A/C, ect. occurs.

 

However, you must be downright stupid to not prefer an NTT or a 75 footer over a 60ft SMEE generation train. There is simply no reason as to why a person wouldn't prefer to see an NTT. If one comes by, then its a bonus. If a SMEE pulls up, oh well. However, you must acknowledge the fact that people prefer NEW things. It is the extent to which we are willing to give up commuter time which is in question, and in the majority of cases, the answer is NO, but to blantly say that people don't care at all if an NTT pulls up is false though.

 

I guess that makes me downright stupid. I don't like the NTT seats, the acceleration is jerky, and I find the loud, droning announcements irritating. I don't dislike them enough to wait for the next train, but if it's entirely up to me I'll take a SMEE any day.

 

(Makes no difference to me what's new and what's old.)

[R32sdabest]

I guess that makes me downright stupid. I don't like the NTT seats, the acceleration is jerky, and I find the loud, droning announcements irritating. I don't dislike them enough to wait for the next train, but if it's entirely up to me I'll take a SMEE any day.

 

(Makes no difference to me what's new and what's old.)

Thank you. Those seats are.....ugh! I like the R142/142As and R143s but I HATE 160s!!! For various reasons!

[S78 via Hylan]

Well, I don't hate the R160s. Sure they're not the best NTT around, but I take whatever train comes. As long as I get to where I need to go, that's what's important.

[MHV9218]

However, you must be downright stupid to not prefer an NTT or a 75 footer over a 60ft SMEE generation train. 

 

How many arguments we could avoid on this forum if we accepted the relatively simple concept that personal preference is personal and as a result inherently impossible to objectively determine as 'smart' or 'stupid...'

 

Would you be downright stupid to not prefer an NTT or a 75 footer over a 60ft SMEE generation train? No. But you would be downright stupid to make that statement. 

[LTA1992]

How many arguments we could avoid on this forum if we accepted the relatively simple concept that personal preference is personal and as a result inherently impossible to objectively determine as 'smart' or 'stupid...'

 

Would you be downright stupid to not prefer an NTT or a 75 footer over a 60ft SMEE generation train? No. But you would be downright stupid to make that statement. 

Jokes on him, the R68 and 68A are technically SMEE.

Edited August 8, 2013 by LTA1992

[RollOver]

Thank you. Those seats are.....ugh! I like the R142/142As and R143s but I HATE 160s!!! For various reasons!

 

Primarily because they wiped out many of the R32s and R42s and all the R38s, R40s and NYCS R44s. They even invaded every single corridor. Though, the R32s did the same thing too during the 2003-2005 era.

[realizm]

This is true, but only to an extent. Of course every rider (discluding railfanners) will ride the first train they see. As for the instances in which you see passengers purposely avoiding one train just to ride another, I'm willing to bet that occurs only when special circumstances such as stench, rowdy passengers, skip stop service, poor A/C, ect. occurs.

 

However, you must be downright stupid to not prefer an NTT or a 75 footer over a 60ft SMEE generation train. There is simply no reason as to why a person wouldn't prefer to see an NTT. If one comes by, then its a bonus. If a SMEE pulls up, oh well. However, you must acknowledge the fact that people prefer NEW things. It is the extent to which we are willing to give up commuter time which is in question, and in the majority of cases, the answer is NO, but to blantly say that people don't care at all if an NTT pulls up is false though.

 

The fact of the matter is, as I mentioned before, so as many others here as well, is that 60 foot trains increases load capacity as well as decreases passenger load and departure times.

 

With the return trend to horizontal bench seats it makes for more comfortable sitting as compared to bucket seats in a transverse seating arrangement. The transverse seating arrangement is not anatomically correct for today's passengers who are generally taller then back in the 70's when the idea was adopted with the R44's.

 

The MTA I imagine put extensive and accurate research into these factors concerning the design of the R143's and R160's. Otherwise personally speaking as I previously posted whatever train comes, regardless of the fleet type, I'm hopping on it as long as it is not crushloaded unless I am forced to, or if the A/C malfunctioned. I'm not going to wait and wait for an SMEE. Unless I am deliberately doing so to take pics to post on this forum. My two cents.

 

Add: And yes, the R68's and the R62's incorporate SMEE design. Not Space Age era technology with the R44 and the R46 fleet types

Edited August 8, 2013 by realizm