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Fleet Swap Discussion Thread


INDman

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Just now, R32 3838 said:

In the summer the rock pk shuttle is full length 7 days a week and runs to rockaway blvd. Only at night its 4 car opto

That would be the most sensible time to run R42's or R32's on The Rockaway Park (S), I do remember R32's running on the Franklin Ave. (S) but im not sure if they used OPTO.

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5 hours ago, Jemorie said:

Seems like they're going over to the (A) till they're all dead. I would have liked for them to go to the (B) because it's a weekday-only line but now we understand why that's not happen, seeing they won't fix the Montague Street Tunnel's clearance thingy. If they end up staying on the (A), they should not run them all the time and instead reduce them to fewer roundtrips per day. Hopefully they'll do the same with the R46s once the R211s take over the line years later, especially given that the R46s has had a history of problems over the course of their lifespan. 

The fact that the R32 fleet is currently on the A is in no way indicative of their future assignments. 

 

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11 hours ago, Jemorie said:

Seems like they're going over to the (A) till they're all dead. I would have liked for them to go to the (B) because it's a weekday-only line but now we understand why that's not happen, seeing they won't fix the Montague Street Tunnel's clearance thingy. If they end up staying on the (A), they should not run them all the time and instead reduce them to fewer roundtrips per day. Hopefully they'll do the same with the R46s once the R211s take over the line years later, especially given that the R46s has had a history of problems over the course of their lifespan. 

The assignment to the (A) is not permanent. You will see them on the (B) and (G)

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1 hour ago, Union Tpke said:

The assignment to the (A) is not permanent. You will see them on the (B) and (G)

As much as I like having them on the (B), I honestly feel that after everything Bill was trying to say, he is right that they can't end up on those lines for obvious reasons.

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You guys are going extremely hard on one person's piece of information that is not 100% official. Like i said in the other thread, if all 222 cars stay i can see them split between 207th and CIY.

If this were the case, Jamaica could have goten their 100 R160's back or 60 out of the 100 and lost 48 R46's to pitkin and the R32's would have went straight to CI. They don't have to wait for the R179's to start swapping some cars around. 

 

Obviously they didn't make a final decision yet. 

 

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The (G) getting them sounds more believable since there's no issue stopping the R32's from being on the (G).

The (B) is the problem.

Everyone gave a logical answer on the (B) issue. And if CI gets the R32's we all know the (G) is using most of them. Not the (B). 

 

The whole idea is to give the (G) extra cars. The (B) wouldn't even need to have R32's unless they need a train to do a trip or two. 

 

But the dickriding has to stop, NYCT changes their plans and nothing is official. Stop putting all your eggs in one basket because say if they say no and keep them on the (A) and (C) lines. Then ya'll gonna get mad. 

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3 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

The assignment to the (A) is not permanent. You will see them on the (B) and (G)

TA is not going to put the R32's on (B) that's off the table, they did wanted to at one timem but the Montague Street Tunnel is the problem for R32s, So as of now the R32s are staying on (A)(C), but if R32's goes to CI it will be used on (G) 

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1 hour ago, R32 3838 said:

The whole idea is to give the (G) extra cars. The (B) wouldn't even need to have R32's unless they need a train to do a trip or two. 

 

But the dickriding has to stop, NYCT changes their plans and nothing is official. Stop putting all your eggs in one basket because say if they say no and keep them on the (A) and (C) lines. Then ya'll gonna get mad. 

Oh they'll need them alright... If its all going down the way that several people have told me so, none of the R68/As would remain on the (B), instead running on the (N)(Q)(W) 

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14 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

Oh they'll need them alright... If its all going down the way that several people have told me so, none of the R68/As would remain on the (B), instead running on the (N)(Q)(W) 

 

I already heard the rumor of R46 (B) trains. That's if they actually do the R160/46 swap. Its obvious that swap is happening. But its just a matter of when. 

 

But like i said before sources can be wrong, it has happen numerous times because mta likes to change things around last minute. 

But i don't mind seeing the (B) with no R68's tho, im not a fan of them on the (B).

 

Its all up to car equipment to make these decisions.

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20 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

I rode the (J) from Broadway Jct to Eessex just now, for the first time in quite some time I seen not one 32 on the (J) line, a seen a bunch of 160s, two sets of 42s and even the 179, but no 32s. Even if I ride a short distance on the (J) I always see a couple of sets in service, there's definitely a reduced amount of 32s on the (J).

Last night I went out to look for an R32 A Train, and I never once saw an R32 C Train.

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On 12/20/2017 at 5:08 AM, R32 3838 said:

I heard the people overthere complained because they like the seating arrangement on the R46's. 

More like they are too fat for the R32s, from my own experience, especially along Liberty Avenue, which is why the (A)(C) would be 100% 75 footers today if the R160s retired the remaining R32s and R42s as planned.

1 hour ago, Around the Horn said:

Oh they'll need them alright... If its all going down the way that several people have told me so, none of the R68/As would remain on the (B), instead running on the (N)(Q)(W) 

R68/68As are staying on the (B). No way the chubby chicks would run on the Broadway Lines again due to the roll-sign issues at Astoria, lack of 96th Street signs, and the fact they cannot handle the heavy loads along 2nd Avenue (same reason why the R46s will never run on the (E) again)

54 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

 

I already heard the rumor of R46 (B) trains. That's if they actually do the R160/46 swap. Its obvious that swap is happening. But its just a matter of when. 

 

But like i said before sources can be wrong, it has happen numerous times because mta likes to change things around last minute. 

But i don't mind seeing the (B) with no R68's tho, im not a fan of them on the (B).

 

Its all up to car equipment to make these decisions.

More like it is obvious the swap is NOT happening based on several factors:

- Jamaica having less R160s than it did in 2011, having sent over 100 of them to Coney Island in the past 6 1/2 years for the (G)'s transfer and (W) restoration

- CBTC on Queens Boulevard not being ready until at least 2024-2025, when there will be enough R211s in service to retire simply Jamaica's R46s,

- NYCT not wanting the yards to maintain more than two different car types,

- (N)(W) riders loving the R160s so much, they were bash the MTA if they see fat old junks in their place,

- R46s not being allowed to make frequent, regular runs on Brighton due to persistent noise complaints from nearby residents). When I went to get a video of that one R46 morning (Q) train, I noticed it was considerably louder than the R68/68As and R160s and caused more vibrations. Heck, I can even hear it from my home every morning and I live about five blocks from the line. 

The reason the TA plans to retrofit almost all R160s with CBTC (which has not even happened yet despite their plans to start in early 2015) is in case of the unfortunate event of an (N)(Q) or (W) train being rerouted to Queens Boulevard. Max Diamond posted a video last week of a (Q) going there due to an incident at 2nd Avenue and someone posted a video a few years of ago of an (N) going to Forest Hills due to an incident at Astoria. The same logic is being used as to why R32s will not go on the (B). 

I agree the overweight R68/68As suck on the (B) to the point where the (Q) goes faster in Brooklyn, but they will be stuck where they are until their retirement.

Give and take. Would they prefer shorter trains that are newer or longer trains that are older?

 

Some people prefer the new trains regardless of length 

Edited by FlushingExpress
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52 minutes ago, FlushingExpress said:

R68/68As are staying on the (B). No way the chubby chicks would run on the Broadway Lines again due to the roll-sign issues at Astoria, lack of 96th Street signs, and the fact they cannot handle the heavy loads along 2nd Avenue (same reason why the R46s will never run on the (E) again)

Except they do have 96th Street roll signs... and there are at least five sets on the (N)(W) every weekday 

And how are they chubby if they are the same width as every other B division car?

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16 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

In the summer the rock pk shuttle is full length 7 days a week and runs to rockaway blvd. Only at night its 4 car opto

When I went to Rockaway Beach during the week last summer it was 4 car R46s on the shuttle. Besides I don't think they have enough cars to make rush hour service on the (A) AND run full length Rock Park shuttles

3 hours ago, FlushingExpress said:

More like they are too fat for the R32s, from my own experience, especially along Liberty Avenue, which is why the (A)(C) would be 100% 75 footers today if the R160s retired the remaining R32s and R42s as planned.

R68/68As are staying on the (B). No way the chubby chicks would run on the Broadway Lines again due to the roll-sign issues at Astoria, lack of 96th Street signs, and the fact they cannot handle the heavy loads along 2nd Avenue (same reason why the R46s will never run on the (E) again)

More like it is obvious the swap is NOT happening based on several factors:

- Jamaica having less R160s than it did in 2011, having sent over 100 of them to Coney Island in the past 6 1/2 years for the (G)'s transfer and (W) restoration

- CBTC on Queens Boulevard not being ready until at least 2024-2025, when there will be enough R211s in service to retire simply Jamaica's R46s,

I agree the overweight R68/68As suck on the (B) to the point where the (Q) goes faster in Brooklyn

Actually 32s would be more comfortable for fat people than the 46s, 32s have bench seating where's the 46s have bucket seating which are uncomfortable when all the seats are taken.

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10 hours ago, Jemorie said:

As much as I like having them on the (B), I honestly feel that after everything Bill was trying to say, he is right that they can't end up on those lines for obvious reasons.

I respect Bill and he has said many great things, from which I have learned a great deal. However, he doesn't work in Operations Planning. They are seriously considering this, and some people from there have hinted this to myself and I presume some of you guys as well. I trust what they are doing. They wouldn't even be considering this if they thought that this would be a major issue.

 

9 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

You guys are going extremely hard on one person's piece of information that is not 100% official. Like i said in the other thread, if all 222 cars stay i can see them split between 207th and CIY.

If this were the case, Jamaica could have goten their 100 R160's back or 60 out of the 100 and lost 48 R46's to pitkin and the R32's would have went straight to CI. They don't have to wait for the R179's to start swapping some cars around. 

 

Obviously they didn't make a final decision yet. 

 

This is official. I have heard it from SEVERAL people in OP. It is not one person. The (A) will be operating with R46s and R179s. The R32s are only on the (A) until enough R179s come in. Take your pictures while they last.

8 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

Oh they'll need them alright... If its all going down the way that several people have told me so, none of the R68/As would remain on the (B), instead running on the (N)(Q)(W) 

The N/W will be R46s, while the Q will have 50 or so R160s and the rest would be R68/As.

6 hours ago, FlushingExpress said:

More like they are too fat for the R32s, from my own experience, especially along Liberty Avenue, which is why the (A)(C) would be 100% 75 footers today if the R160s retired the remaining R32s and R42s as planned.

R68/68As are staying on the (B). No way the chubby chicks would run on the Broadway Lines again due to the roll-sign issues at Astoria, lack of 96th Street signs, and the fact they cannot handle the heavy loads along 2nd Avenue (same reason why the R46s will never run on the (E) again)

They have 96th Street rollsigns. The loads aren't that heavy on the (Q). Anyway the N and W would run with R46s so there would be no rollsign issues.

More like it is obvious the swap is NOT happening based on several factors:

- Jamaica having less R160s than it did in 2011, having sent over 100 of them to Coney Island in the past 6 1/2 years for the (G)'s transfer and (W) restoration

- CBTC on Queens Boulevard not being ready until at least 2024-2025, when there will be enough R211s in service to retire simply Jamaica's R46s,

It will be completed in 2020-2021. Get your facts right.

- NYCT not wanting the yards to maintain more than two different car types,

- (N)(W) riders loving the R160s so much, they were bash the MTA if they see fat old junks in their place,

The MTA doesn't care what they say. The local citycouncil members know about it and are not happy, but they were told that they would get the R211s.

- R46s not being allowed to make frequent, regular runs on Brighton due to persistent noise complaints from nearby residents). When I went to get a video of that one R46 morning (Q) train, I noticed it was considerably louder than the R68/68As and R160s and caused more vibrations. Heck, I can even hear it from my home every morning and I live about five blocks from the line. 

That issue was from the 1980s. I haven't heard anything of late.

The reason the TA plans to retrofit almost all R160s with CBTC (which has not even happened yet despite their plans to start in early 2015) is in case of the unfortunate event of an (N)(Q) or (W) train being rerouted to Queens Boulevard. Max Diamond posted a video last week of a (Q) going there due to an incident at 2nd Avenue and someone posted a video a few years of ago of an (N) going to Forest Hills due to an incident at Astoria. The same logic is being used as to why R32s will not go on the (B). 

NO. 1486 R160s are needed for Queens Boulevard. This number of cars can only be obtained by taking some from Coney Island.

I agree the overweight R68/68As suck on the (B) to the point where the (Q) goes faster in Brooklyn, but they will be stuck where they are until their retirement.

 

Some people prefer the new trains regardless of length 

 

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9 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

The (G) getting them sounds more believable since there's no issue stopping the R32's from being on the (G).

The (B) is the problem.

Everyone gave a logical answer on the (B) issue. And if CI gets the R32's we all know the (G) is using most of them. Not the (B). 

 

The whole idea is to give the (G) extra cars. The (B) wouldn't even need to have R32's unless they need a train to do a trip or two. 

 

But the dickriding has to stop, NYCT changes their plans and nothing is official. Stop putting all your eggs in one basket because say if they say no and keep them on the (A) and (C) lines. Then ya'll gonna get mad. 

Stop acting like there are no official plans. This has nothing to do with my personal preferences. If that were the case I would say that the (E) would completely run on R32s. These are based on facts, and they are directly from the source, in fact multiple. Of course it could change. If the completion of the R179 order is delayed to 2019 then of course there will likely still be R32s on the (A). They come up with plans for all types of scenarios, and they know that there will be problems if the R179s aren't in before Canarsie. These plans have been in the works for a while. I would trust them.

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The above two posts are a wonderfully detailed response.

One slight point I'd like to add to Mr. Turnpike's posts above is the CBTC schedule. 

People are pointing out that prior CBTC projects- the L and 7 have been significantly delayed from their scheduled completion dates. 
That is true. 

People are pointing out that this means they won't need CBTC equipped R160s on Jamaica until later than projected. 
This is blatantly false.

What was one of the biggest delays in activating the L train CBTC? 
Not enough R143s to run the line. Had to wait til the R160 fleet came in. 

What is one of the biggest delays in activating the 7 train CBTC? 
Not enough available R188s to run 7 service. Have to wait for enough cars to be reliably available for service for peak hour activation. 

Do you really think they want to delay Queens Boulevard when there are more than enough equippable R160s out there? NO! They'll have the cars ready beforehand, especially because they easily can! 

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