New MTA Regional MetroCard System Called "Tap & Ride™"

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Which is exactly why I made the point. There's no politics to wanting to eliminate jobs and save money. Take it from me I know. It's one of the recent battles of this contract. The Authority's main goal is to do away with the stations department. Anything that's only a stop gap measure and lacks long term viability keeps that goal from completely coming full circle. PATH and MTA cooperated very closely when it came to MVMs and the MetroCard itself, but in order for SmartLink to operate the way the MTA desires then SmartLink would either have to be redesigned which is costly when you plan to keep the current cards and technology currently being used active during the change or you rebuild from scratch which is essentially to go with a whole new system. Also the MTA wants NFC to be on the plate, but NFC hasn't quite taken off for many of reasons and iPhone hasn't adopted NFC at all.

 

Why you may not see it the plan is for everything to be apart of one big piece of technology spanning different devices, chip sets and cards but following a universal protocol lead by the banks. Once again the goal is to eliminate as much back office as possible. SmartLink only transitions things and since that's the case they consider it a huge waste of money.

I get the sense that the union views any sort of technological advancement as a threat to their existence, which I think is ridiculous.  That's the way it is in every industry.  The union should stop trying to stop progress and make adjustments.  These changes will benefit the riding public and are sorely needed, as the is woefully behind in a number of areas.  Where jobs are cut, others are created, and the excuse that the "has the money" is getting rather old.  They would have more money if they could continue to be more efficient.  Areas that the union should focus on are ones such as providing good customer service for starters to encourage more usage of the system. I can ensure you that more jobs would be created that way, but trying to stop technology (in some cases) is completely foolish.

[RTOPRO]

I get the sense that the union views any sort of technological advancement as a threat to their existence, which I think is ridiculous.  That's the way it is in every industry.  The union should stop trying to stop progress and make adjustments.  These changes will benefit the riding public and are sorely needed, as the is woefully behind in a number of areas.  Where jobs are cut, others are created, and the excuse that the "has the money" is getting rather old.  They would have more money if they could continue to be more efficient.  Areas that the union should focus on are ones such as providing good customer service for starters to encourage more usage of the system. I can ensure you that more jobs would be created that way, but trying to stop technology (in some cases) is completely foolish.

I think you've taken the point too far. While the union wants to prevent job loses, the union is in no way shape or form getting in the way of any new technology. CBTC is here and the union didn't try to stop that. The search for a new fare media continues without union obstruction. I think you might have a misunderstanding of the point which was to point out that PA vs MTA politics play no role in why the MTA chooses not to go with SmartLink.

[bobtehpanda]

The single biggest reason I believe the effort to let stores sell Metrocard didn't work too well is because it requires stores to stock and restock cards. Out in the suburban areas (Eastern Queens, Riverdale, etc.) very few people are going to walk into a store and buy a Metrocard.

MTA is probably going to contract out the smartcard or whatever fare payment system they use to a third party, in the same way that many agencies around the world do.

[SubwayGuy]

I get the sense that the union views any sort of technological advancement as a threat to their existence, which I think is ridiculous.  That's the way it is in every industry.  The union should stop trying to stop progress and make adjustments.  These changes will benefit the riding public and are sorely needed, as the is woefully behind in a number of areas.  Where jobs are cut, others are created, and the excuse that the "has the money" is getting rather old.  They would have more money if they could continue to be more efficient.  Areas that the union should focus on are ones such as providing good customer service for starters to encourage more usage of the system. I can ensure you that more jobs would be created that way, but trying to stop technology (in some cases) is completely foolish.

 

The union is not fighting this over jobs. In fact, the union hasn't really said much of anything one way or the other, other than that they oppose closing booths as unstaffed stations (particularly late at night) become a safety risk.

 

The problem with all of this streamlining and phone based payment technology is theft.

 

The more data that is aggregated on people's phones and broadcast over networks, the easier it will be for identity thieves to destroy lives.

 

It's high time penalties for thieves are ratcheted up bigtime, but that alone is insufficient. After all, how would you like it if someone stealing a phone allows them to, within minutes, access bank accounts, credit cards, home loans, redirect recently purchased items, liquidate retirement and investment accounts (which will trigger early withdrawal and tax penalties automatically...good luck recovering those!), etc. Paying for subway and bus fares would be the least of anyone's concerns at that point. PINs and passwords are not nearly as secure as most people assume they are, and these "institutions" that are trusted with personal data routinely show a malaise about it which is why they are often hacked, or personal data about their clients just happens to randomly and mistakenly be sent out every so often.

 

Companies do not care about your personal data, only their own ability to monetize it into profit for themselves. The sooner people realize this and fight to protect their privacy, the better off the world will be in the future. But as usual the sheep that are modern day Americans are off chasing convenience with no regard to the dangers that it brings, until it happens to them. And then you are talking destroyed credit, costs much more to buy a home or car, hundreds of thousands of dollars of damage PER PERSON, none of which is recoverable, and for what? So that even if they do catch the prick that stole it, they can send him to jail? Lot of consolation that is. Give me a steel brake handle and 30 minutes alone with that guy cuffed to a bench in a cell if he steals my identity, and full immunity from the law and that STILL won't be enough to get your life back.

 

Protecting your information is going to be the only way to survive in the new school and people just don't seem to realize how bad and random cybercrime is going to become.

[Trainmaster5]

The union is not fighting this over jobs. In fact, the union hasn't really said much of anything one way or the other, other than that they oppose closing booths as unstaffed stations (particularly late at night) become a safety risk.

 

The problem with all of this streamlining and phone based payment technology is theft.

 

The more data that is aggregated on people's phones and broadcast over networks, the easier it will be for identity thieves to destroy lives.

 

It's high time penalties for thieves are ratcheted up bigtime, but that alone is insufficient. After all, how would you like it if someone stealing a phone allows them to, within minutes, access bank accounts, credit cards, home loans, redirect recently purchased items, liquidate retirement and investment accounts (which will trigger early withdrawal and tax penalties automatically...good luck recovering those!), etc. Paying for subway and bus fares would be the least of anyone's concerns at that point. PINs and passwords are not nearly as secure as most people assume they are, and these "institutions" that are trusted with personal data routinely show a malaise about it which is why they are often hacked, or personal data about their clients just happens to randomly and mistakenly be sent out every so often.

 

Companies do not care about your personal data, only their own ability to monetize it into profit for themselves. The sooner people realize this and fight to protect their privacy, the better off the world will be in the future. But as usual the sheep that are modern day Americans are off chasing convenience with no regard to the dangers that it brings, until it happens to them. And then you are talking destroyed credit, costs much more to buy a home or car, hundreds of thousands of dollars of damage PER PERSON, none of which is recoverable, and for what? So that even if they do catch the prick that stole it, they can send him to jail? Lot of consolation that is. Give me a steel brake handle and 30 minutes alone with that guy cuffed to a bench in a cell if he steals my identity, and full immunity from the law and that STILL won't be enough to get your life back.

 

Protecting your information is going to be the only way to survive in the new school and people just don't seem to realize how bad and random cybercrime is going to become.

+1, SubwayGuy. You nailed it. The problem, as I see it, is people are clamoring for "convenience" yet many fail to see the big picture. If they read the business pages or tech magazines more often they wouldn't be so quick to fall down the slippery slope that technology has promised them. Security experts, banks, credit bureaus, credit card companies, even hackers themselves have all pointed the many flaws in how this information is used and protected yet some are willing to open up more entry points for fraud in the name of convenience. Maybe they really believe those LifeLock commercials. Take some time away from your hobbies and read up on the current state of security in the real world. Your smartphones, laptops, and tablets, are all potential openings for the bad guys to screw your life up royally. These crooks use multiple ways to try to get your info. Card skimmers at NYCT, LIRR, and MNRR. Major breaches in security at Target and other retailers, NSA wannabes trying to compromise Wi-Fi networks. Your personal info is your life these days. That benign looking ATM, TVM, MVM, could be the proverbial Trojan horse. Don't be so quick to expose your info to others. I'd rather be called a dinosaur ( and be somewhat secure) by using cash as much as possible than be a sheep any day. My rant. Carry on.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I think you've taken the point too far. While the union wants to prevent job loses, the union is in no way shape or form getting in the way of any new technology. CBTC is here and the union didn't try to stop that. The search for a new fare media continues without union obstruction. I think you might have a misunderstanding of the point which was to point out that PA vs MTA politics play no role in why the MTA chooses not to go with SmartLink.

 

Please... Plenty of workers were opposed to BusTime for example, claiming that the was playing big brother. 

The union is not fighting this over jobs. In fact, the union hasn't really said much of anything one way or the other, other than that they oppose closing booths as unstaffed stations (particularly late at night) become a safety risk.

 

The problem with all of this streamlining and phone based payment technology is theft.

 

The more data that is aggregated on people's phones and broadcast over networks, the easier it will be for identity thieves to destroy lives.

 

It's high time penalties for thieves are ratcheted up bigtime, but that alone is insufficient. After all, how would you like it if someone stealing a phone allows them to, within minutes, access bank accounts, credit cards, home loans, redirect recently purchased items, liquidate retirement and investment accounts (which will trigger early withdrawal and tax penalties automatically...good luck recovering those!), etc. Paying for subway and bus fares would be the least of anyone's concerns at that point. PINs and passwords are not nearly as secure as most people assume they are, and these "institutions" that are trusted with personal data routinely show a malaise about it which is why they are often hacked, or personal data about their clients just happens to randomly and mistakenly be sent out every so often.

 

Companies do not care about your personal data, only their own ability to monetize it into profit for themselves. The sooner people realize this and fight to protect their privacy, the better off the world will be in the future. But as usual the sheep that are modern day Americans are off chasing convenience with no regard to the dangers that it brings, until it happens to them. And then you are talking destroyed credit, costs much more to buy a home or car, hundreds of thousands of dollars of damage PER PERSON, none of which is recoverable, and for what? So that even if they do catch the prick that stole it, they can send him to jail? Lot of consolation that is. Give me a steel brake handle and 30 minutes alone with that guy cuffed to a bench in a cell if he steals my identity, and full immunity from the law and that STILL won't be enough to get your life back.

 

Protecting your information is going to be the only way to survive in the new school and people just don't seem to realize how bad and random cybercrime is going to become.

Lame....  Really lame to use the scare tatic... Listen, the fact of the matter is we can't live our lives in fear. No matter what you do, there will be someone there trying to screw you over. Using scare tactics to discourage progress does nothing. Technology will advance no matter what we do, so the wise thing to do is to embrace it and be aware of the negatives and be vigilant and use common sense. In the 21st century it's time for the to move forward with technological advances that will benefit the customers.

[bobtehpanda]

The union is not fighting this over jobs. In fact, the union hasn't really said much of anything one way or the other, other than that they oppose closing booths as unstaffed stations (particularly late at night) become a safety risk.

 

The problem with all of this streamlining and phone based payment technology is theft.

 

The more data that is aggregated on people's phones and broadcast over networks, the easier it will be for identity thieves to destroy lives.

 

It's high time penalties for thieves are ratcheted up bigtime, but that alone is insufficient. After all, how would you like it if someone stealing a phone allows them to, within minutes, access bank accounts, credit cards, home loans, redirect recently purchased items, liquidate retirement and investment accounts (which will trigger early withdrawal and tax penalties automatically...good luck recovering those!), etc. Paying for subway and bus fares would be the least of anyone's concerns at that point. PINs and passwords are not nearly as secure as most people assume they are, and these "institutions" that are trusted with personal data routinely show a malaise about it which is why they are often hacked, or personal data about their clients just happens to randomly and mistakenly be sent out every so often.

 

Companies do not care about your personal data, only their own ability to monetize it into profit for themselves. The sooner people realize this and fight to protect their privacy, the better off the world will be in the future. But as usual the sheep that are modern day Americans are off chasing convenience with no regard to the dangers that it brings, until it happens to them. And then you are talking destroyed credit, costs much more to buy a home or car, hundreds of thousands of dollars of damage PER PERSON, none of which is recoverable, and for what? So that even if they do catch the prick that stole it, they can send him to jail? Lot of consolation that is. Give me a steel brake handle and 30 minutes alone with that guy cuffed to a bench in a cell if he steals my identity, and full immunity from the law and that STILL won't be enough to get your life back.

 

Protecting your information is going to be the only way to survive in the new school and people just don't seem to realize how bad and random cybercrime is going to become.

 

The thing is, it's an issue regardless of what kind of fare media we use short of buying tokens at booths with cash again. How many skimmers have they found on the LIRR MVMs at this point? Those are paper tickets, yet we still see identity theft being a problem.

 

Moving to a new fare medium is mostly just keeping up with the Joneses at this point; every sector of the transportation industry is moving to make purchasing with mobiles and credit cards easier, and the Metrocard is becoming too expensive to keep in place; the system is breaking down more and more often. If MTA does not move in this direction, people will choose other forms of transportation; most of the ridership growth in the past fifteen years can be attributed to the Metrocard replacing tokens and making things easier.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The thing is, it's an issue regardless of what kind of fare media we use short of buying tokens at booths with cash again. How many skimmers have they found on the LIRR MVMs at this point? Those are paper tickets, yet we still see identity theft being a problem.

 

Moving to a new fare medium is mostly just keeping up with the Joneses at this point; every sector of the transportation industry is moving to make purchasing with mobiles and credit cards easier, and the Metrocard is becoming too expensive to keep in place; the system is breaking down more and more often. If MTA does not move in this direction, people will choose other forms of transportation; most of the ridership growth in the past fifteen years can be attributed to the Metrocard replacing tokens and making things easier.

My sentiments exactly... We can't live in a cave and regress because of what might happen... Egregious ideology at its finest...

[RTOPRO]

Please... Plenty of workers were opposed to BusTime for example, claiming that the was playing big brother.

First of all I don't work for buses.

 

Secondly, I wasn't referring to BusTime as it would an apples and oranges comparison.

[SubwayGuy]

The thing is, it's an issue regardless of what kind of fare media we use short of buying tokens at booths with cash again. How many skimmers have they found on the LIRR MVMs at this point? Those are paper tickets, yet we still see identity theft being a problem.

 

Moving to a new fare medium is mostly just keeping up with the Joneses at this point; every sector of the transportation industry is moving to make purchasing with mobiles and credit cards easier, and the Metrocard is becoming too expensive to keep in place; the system is breaking down more and more often. If MTA does not move in this direction, people will choose other forms of transportation; most of the ridership growth in the past fifteen years can be attributed to the Metrocard replacing tokens and making things easier.

 

Credit cards are ensured. Once you report it stolen, it is immediately stopped and any reputable credit card insures against identity theft and will wipe the charges while simultaneously launching an investigation that will flag the stolen card if it is attempted to be used again.

 

Likewise, the physical credit card contains some personal data, but not enough for an individual to impersonate you. Stealing a bank card and a PIN, for example. won't reveal your date of birth or SSN. Upon report of a stolen credit or bank card, the financial institution can issue a new number for the account, along with a new card, which effectively cuts off any further abuse.

 

While not perfect, it's the best we've got.

 

Insert phones, and you open up a whole new ball game. Phones already have access to sensitive mobile account information, and, in many stores, the ability to pay for things directly from the phone without any proof of ID, or physical inspection (as is common practice when purchases are made by credit card at most stores - the card must be inspected to ensure it's not a blank with skimmed data added onto the stripe). Not only that, a phone aggregates a large amount of information in one place such that it becomes possible to put together the pieces of someone's life in a way that makes identity theft a whole new animal, not just an easily contested act of randomness that is solved with a quick call to the bank. And what safeguards would exist...reporting the PHONE as stolen? A whole lot of good Verizon or T-Mobile is going to do you when you report that. By the time you're able to notify them, struggling through their automated system since you'll be calling on a device other than the phone associated with your account, they'll be able to cut service to the phone and maybe even replace it for you but that's about it. Are they going to refund someone's online spending spree? Are they going to reimburse stolen funds? You'll be dealing with a number of different institutions for that, which may or may not do that for you based on what happened. And it's going to be much more work getting your life back together than it is now, with much more far reaching possible ramifications.

[SubwayGuy]

If MTA does not move in this direction, people will choose other forms of transportation; most of the ridership growth in the past fifteen years can be attributed to the Metrocard replacing tokens and making things easier.

 

This argument is pure BS. What other "form of transportation" will they choose? The MTA is pretty much the only game in town, and they know it. Driving in & paying for parking, Cabs, and car services are all too expensive, ghetto stuff like dollar vans etc. are too unreliable, and while a handful of people drop out of public transit in favor of bikes, etc. it's not enough for serious consideration, nor will it become such in the future.

 

Ridership numbers are up because the population of New York is constantly growing and our culture is changing with the overall economy that people are working longer hours and still want some time for themselves so you are seeing more ridership in evenings as people go out to get away from the stress of the daily grind, and on weekends as most of the erranding is done then. More people are doing more things, it's just the way our culture is going - lounging around the house, while often relaxing is looked down on, and most people are trying to cram as many things as they can into their schedules which means more time traveling on buses and subways. Additionally as Manhattan rent skyrockets, more people are living further from their places of work as well, which adds to it. Pay Per Ride Metrocard, as a single factor, did not significantly increase subway ridership - if anything, it was the unlimited ride cards that did more, since the convenience of having one meant taking a subway one stop to go home was the likely choice vs. walking, whereas if there was a marginal cost to the rider, it would not be.

 

There are other directions which are equally technologically advanced, but safer for the end user that the MTA could (and should) pursue instead, methods that also include other populations which would struggle to use a phone/bank/credit card based method such as tourists, students, and very poor people.

[bobtehpanda]

Credit cards are ensured. Once you report it stolen, it is immediately stopped and any reputable credit card insures against identity theft and will wipe the charges while simultaneously launching an investigation that will flag the stolen card if it is attempted to be used again.

 

Likewise, the physical credit card contains some personal data, but not enough for an individual to impersonate you. Stealing a bank card and a PIN, for example. won't reveal your date of birth or SSN. Upon report of a stolen credit or bank card, the financial institution can issue a new number for the account, along with a new card, which effectively cuts off any further abuse.

 

While not perfect, it's the best we've got.

 

Insert phones, and you open up a whole new ball game. Phones already have access to sensitive mobile account information, and, in many stores, the ability to pay for things directly from the phone without any proof of ID, or physical inspection (as is common practice when purchases are made by credit card at most stores - the card must be inspected to ensure it's not a blank with skimmed data added onto the stripe). Not only that, a phone aggregates a large amount of information in one place such that it becomes possible to put together the pieces of someone's life in a way that makes identity theft a whole new animal, not just an easily contested act of randomness that is solved with a quick call to the bank. And what safeguards would exist...reporting the PHONE as stolen? A whole lot of good Verizon or T-Mobile is going to do you when you report that. By the time you're able to notify them, struggling through their automated system since you'll be calling on a device other than the phone associated with your account, they'll be able to cut service to the phone and maybe even replace it for you but that's about it. Are they going to refund someone's online spending spree? Are they going to reimburse stolen funds? You'll be dealing with a number of different institutions for that, which may or may not do that for you based on what happened. And it's going to be much more work getting your life back together than it is now, with much more far reaching possible ramifications.

 

Most smartphones can be wiped remotely by either the manufacturer or the carrier. Also, the mobile ticketing in question is not particularly dangerous; similar apps are being developed for NICE, LIRR, and MNR, and already exist for the MBTA and other agencies. Assuming the app functions similarly, it stores a credit card number or some other payment info (like PayPal) and stores rides. You can't obtain the credit card number for anything else; it would be about as useful to a scammer as stealing a refillable Metrocard and having the last four digits of your credit card number. "Other apps are a security risk on a phone" is a crappy reason to not have mobile ticketing.

 

Also, if this was a major issue, we'd be hearing reports about this in countries that have significant use of mobile payments, such as Kenya, South Korea, Japan, etc. However, in those countries, the major identity theft problem is still either someone at a store or bank skimming cards or making off with extensive databases, so it's clearly not a huge issue compared to the more traditional identity theft methods.

[Culver]

Most smartphones can be wiped remotely by either the manufacturer or the carrier. Also, the mobile ticketing in question is not particularly dangerous; similar apps are being developed for NICE, LIRR, and MNR, and already exist for the MBTA and other agencies. Assuming the app functions similarly, it stores a credit card number or some other payment info (like PayPal) and stores rides. You can't obtain the credit card number for anything else; it would be about as useful to a scammer as stealing a refillable Metrocard and having the last four digits of your credit card number. "Other apps are a security risk on a phone" is a crappy reason to not have mobile ticketing.

 

 

^THIS

In the end, the data on the mobile phone will still be tied to a financial agency that can stop fraud immediately once you report it. Just as if they stole a bank card or credit card, the user has to contact the agency and stop payments. If the lets the financial institutions develop the system as planned, it'll work out for the best. Let them deal with the security, they've got decades of experience with it.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

First of all I don't work for buses.

 

Secondly, I wasn't referring to BusTime as it would an apples and oranges comparison.

That's immaterial. I was using BusTime as an example of how paranoid some of you folks are about jobs... Oh my God!  The is becoming innovative in the 21st century.  You guys need to chill out.  I support unions and all and support American jobs (believe me I go out of my way to buy American to support American jobs and patronize American businesses because I get it, we need jobs here and strong wages) but this agency (the that is) is so far behind in terms of so many things that if they don't start becoming innovative, we're going to have a crisis on our hands of epic proportions.  In the worse case scenario, those that may lose jobs should be retrained in something else, but those job loses would be offset with jobs in other fields still within in the .  In my mind, if you're educated enough, you can always get another job, but using protectionism as a way of stymying growth and innovation to create new American jobs is just silly.  If anything, I could see the union pushing for retraining and ensuring that the creates new jobs for American union workers or puts in a buy American clause where applicable... That would make more sense than trying to stop progress.

[SubwayGuy]

^THIS

In the end, the data on the mobile phone will still be tied to a financial agency that can stop fraud immediately once you report it. Just as if they stole a bank card or credit card, the user has to contact the agency and stop payments. If the lets the financial institutions develop the system as planned, it'll work out for the best. Let them deal with the security, they've got decades of experience with it.

 

FInancial institutions that do this (typically limited to credit cards - unauthorized use of a debit card is a case of "good luck getting that back" most times) do so at their own expense as a way of protecting (and therefore retaining existing) customers and getting new ones. In many cases, all reporting something does is cut off future losses, but reimbursement of prior ones is no guarantee.

 

You aren't going to see financial institutions start doing this for their brokerage and trading accounts, or for anything else really, unless they are forced to by law, and then they will ratchet up the fees (as usual) so they can continue making money hand over fist while the cost of living continues to skyrocket to sustain a bunch of unnecessary "features" that create drag on the system. Financial institutions, in lieu of regulation on such, will simply freeze things once it is reported, but by then, lots and lots of damage could have already been done. The only exception of course, being credit cards.

 

The more information you aggregate in one place without requiring any real security checks, the more of a risk it holds - sure you have the client based information on the physical phone, which, if stolen can give the end user a nice little headache...but you also have a database somewhere out there in the ether used by the MTA for fares, or another by a bank for that person's life savings, that is capable of being hacked (as history has shown no matter how "unhackable" these companies swear they are) which contains all the information someone needs to steal identities and not just create a little headache but literally destroy someone's financial life.

[RTOPRO]

That's immaterial. I was using BusTime as an example of how paranoid some of you folks are about jobs... Oh my God!  The is becoming innovative in the 21st century.  You guys need to chill out.  I support unions and all and support American jobs (believe me I go out of my way to buy American to support American jobs and patronize American businesses because I get it, we need jobs here and strong wages) but this agency (the that is) is so far behind in terms of so many things that if they don't start becoming innovative, we're going to have a crisis on our hands of epic proportions.  In the worse case scenario, those that may lose jobs should be retrained in something else, but those job loses would be offset with jobs in other fields still within in the .  In my mind, if you're educated enough, you can always get another job, but using protectionism as a way of stymying growth and innovation to create new American jobs is just silly.  If anything, I could see the union pushing for retraining and ensuring that the creates new jobs for American union workers or puts in a buy American clause where applicable... That would make more sense than trying to stop progress.

That's why I didn't mention BusTime because it is immaterial as you mentioned. Since it's immaterial it's in turn, a bad example as you clearly show your example is about sweeping a swath of employees under an umbrella of paranoia. I'm sorry but I don't subscribe to that, especially since I don't work for buses I am very unfamiliar with some of the concerns they discuss at the depots that the media portrays to you as meaning something news worthy when in fact it could just very well mean something that's not news worthy. Based on that I refuse to speculate. I don't know if you're more or less qualified to speculate on BusTime concerns to bus operators. But just like the example I won't speculate.

 

You guys? I don't know who you are talking about when you say you guys. I won't speculate but I will be sure to exclude myself from such.

 

Having read and reread what's posted. I don't even understand why the rant at this point. I made one point about the goal of the MTA regarding the new fare media in reply to someone else. You stated why you felt the matter was political. I made a point referencing why the MTA wants to get it right with new technology and avoid stop gap measures like SmartLink so they don't waste money with a system that's not going to provide a long term solution to many of their goals, especially when it comes to cost savings in labor. And while I made one reference to the union in general terms of avoiding layoffs you misunderstood that as the union getting in the way of new technology when the union has done no such thing ever. I clarified that exact point and now where here talking about you guys.

 

At this point I don't think there's any more for me to say on the matter.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

That's why I didn't mention BusTime because it is immaterial as you mentioned. Since it's immaterial it's in turn, a bad example as you clearly show your example is about sweeping a swath of employees under an umbrella of paranoia. I'm sorry but I don't subscribe to that, especially since I don't work for buses I am very unfamiliar with some of the concerns they discuss at the depots that the media portrays to you as meaning something news worthy when in fact it could just very well mean something that's not news worthy. Based on that I refuse to speculate. I don't know if you're more or less qualified to speculate on BusTime concerns to bus operators. But just like the example I won't speculate.

 

You guys? I don't know who you are talking about when you say you guys. I won't speculate but I will be sure to exclude myself from such.

 

Having read and reread what's posted. I don't even understand why the rant at this point. I made one point about the goal of the MTA regarding the new fare media in reply to someone else. You stated why you felt the matter was political. I made a point referencing why the MTA wants to get it right with new technology and avoid stop gap measures like SmartLink so they don't waste money with a system that's not going to provide a long term solution to many of their goals, especially when it comes to cost savings in labor. And while I made one reference to the union in general terms of avoiding layoffs you misunderstood that as the union getting in the way of new technology when the union has done no such thing ever. I clarified that exact point and now where here talking about you guys.

 

At this point I don't think there's any more for me to say on the matter.

lol... So you want me to be specific huh? Okay, fine... What about the whole issue with token booth clerks?  You can't seriously sit here and tell me with a straight face that the union hasn't/won't try to fight these technological advances because they have in the past, and I don't see why they wouldn't now.  You and I both know that the ability to pay for your transportation remotely via phone will mean fewer people using MVM's and even less people using token booth clerks, save those who are afraid of and/or abhor technology.  This technology will allow the (if they choose to) to furnish fewer MVM's, which means fewer maintenance people needed, and thus a net savings for the via employee cuts.  

[Lance]

If I may interject, I feel the station agents will always be in the stations, not to sell MetroCards to customers unfamiliar with or refuse to use the MVMs, but rather because of safety concerns. While their original purpose may be facing obsolescence, their presence is needed in the event of emergencies, like someone collapsing on the platform or getting robbed at a station. That job cannot simply be delegated to the Help Point machines

 

Yes, it's quite possible the TWU is against moving forward with the MetroCard replacement, but if they are, they're fighting a battle they cannot win.

 

As for security concerns with identity theft and the like, that will always be an issue, regardless of what the MTA does. Unless you carry cash everywhere you go, there will always be that risk. And even if you use cash for all of your purchases, you still run the risk of being a theft victim, just in the old fashioned way.

[East New York]

This wouldn't be necessary if the had an online or remote system for payment and in 2014 they should.  They themselves only offer select automatic refill Metrocards, so yes the is the problem and I've wrote in and complained to them on many occasions about this.  They need to get with the times.  Where there are subways, the MVM's are busted in too many locations too... The ones in Grand Central for example, problems can exist for months before they're fixed.

So says the man with two subway stations near him who complains about the idea of having less BxM1 service...

 

Just my 2 cents again, but people who get unlimited cards shouldn't have to worry about this at all seeing as you can have 2 unlimited fare values on one card. One should never run out. Especially knowing that we live in a city where MVM's are not readily available in all parts.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Just my 2 cents again, but people who get unlimited cards shouldn't have to worry about this at all seeing as you can have 2 unlimited fare values on one card. One should never run out. Especially knowing that we live in a city where MVM's are not readily available in all parts.

Yeah it should be, but keep this in mind... Those who buy regular Unlimited cards can get a monthly. Express bus riders who buy passes can only buy weekly passes, and can only put one refill on their card. You can't have two unlimited fares on one card. One of those unlimited fare values has to already be in use, and then you can add a refill, which only gives you two weeks at the most. If you want to refill for a month you need to have multiple Metrocards available to refill, or be willing to buy extra new ones and pay the fee which seems dumb. You also need to have multiple credit cards on your person since there is a set limit of transactions that you can make on a credit card. In short, if someone wanted to stock up to avoid running out, the does not make that very easy to do. Years ago the got rid of monthly express bus Metrocards claiming that it was too expensive to replace them. In my neighborhood, many residents complain about a lack of places to buy Metrocards, as there is only one store in the area that frequently runs out. We recently had another option open up down in Spuyten Duyvil, but they only sell $10.00 Metrocards.

[bobtehpanda]

Just my 2 cents again, but people who get unlimited cards shouldn't have to worry about this at all seeing as you can have 2 unlimited fare values on one card. One should never run out. Especially knowing that we live in a city where MVM's are not readily available in all parts.

 

Some employers buy Metrocards for their employees, so that may not always be possible.

 

As for token booth clerks, I feel that while their role in the future may changed (specifically the part where they can't leave the booth), there will always be some sort of MTA presence permanently at a station to help those unfamiliar with the system, provide a backup when fare machines are not working, etc.

[nightmare402]

Tap & Ride eh. i dont really see anyone use it on NJTransit  bus but i could be wrong but from my experience i dont see anyone use it. 

 

Lets see how many NY people use it (yes i live in NJ lol)

[Lennyj17]

The thing is, it's an issue regardless of what kind of fare media we use short of buying tokens at booths with cash again. How many skimmers have they found on the LIRR MVMs at this point? Those are paper tickets, yet we still see identity theft being a problem.

 

Moving to a new fare medium is mostly just keeping up with the Joneses at this point; every sector of the transportation industry is moving to make purchasing with mobiles and credit cards easier, and the Metrocard is becoming too expensive to keep in place; the system is breaking down more and more often. If MTA does not move in this direction, people will choose other forms of transportation; most of the ridership growth in the past fifteen years can be attributed to the Metrocard replacing tokens and making things easier.

 

 

I mostly agree with  this.... However! .... The MTA really needs to pay attention to Chicago and the CTA, and study what a clusterf*ck of a rollout the "Ventra" card has been. God the mayhem that would ensue if any screw up of this scale should hit the NY Metro. 

 

This needs to rollout in phases and not try to push everyone onto "Tap n' Go" at once. 

 

http://www.nbcchicago.com/video/#!/investigations/video/Ventra-Cards-Working-With-Negative-Balances/232926381

 

http://www.nbcchicago.com/video/#!/on-air/as-seen-on/Widespread-Ventra-Card-Reader-Issues-Fixed/231845321

 

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2013/11/05/cta-puts-hammer-down-on-ventra-contractor/

[N4 Via Merrick Rd]

So the is using iPhones(I'm all for Android) for On board ticket issuing machines. They tried doing this like 2-3 years back I don't know what happened. It'd be cool if it was like NJTransit where you can use Google Wallet on an NFC enabled smartphone to pay fares. The TIMs will have Contactless readers I assume.

[bobtehpanda]

So the is using iPhones(I'm all for Android) for On board ticket issuing machines. They tried doing this like 2-3 years back I don't know what happened. It'd be cool if it was like NJTransit where you can use Google Wallet on an NFC enabled smartphone to pay fares. The TIMs will have Contactless readers I assume.

 

IIRC, the test before was keyfobs, but I'm not sure how that turned out.

The LIRR and MNR will be placed on a mobile payments app soon, so it will probably work like a beefed up version of the starbucks app; pay for rides (or a pass) and scan when asked.