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Seattle Approves $15 Minimum Wage, Setting a New Standard for Big Cities


Via Garibaldi 8

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I wonder how much of you know that folks in Seattle doesn't get taxed? My sister moved there to work for Amazon and told me that her check doesn't get taxed along with the folks that live in the city.

The tradeoff is that their sales tax and such is pretty high, not much higher than ours at 9.50%, but it's still pretty significant. It really makes me wonder how they factored these into the equation.

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I'm happy that the minimum wage increase was passed in principle, but unintended consequences are always a killer. (The cynical and intelligent among us might even have a legitimate case in arguing that the very same consequences may not be not "unintended" and accidental after all. There's something of a historical precedent...)

 

I'm generally not a betting man, but if I were to make a bet on how the consequences of this minimum wage increase will play out, it'll be this:

 

- Government agencies and businesses primarily supported by/catering to government agencies (large corporate owned stores generally would fall in this category too, as corporations today are largely supported by government) will do just fine. Some of them might raise a stink at first, but will settle down once another issue has grabbed the public's attention.

 

- Businesses primarily serving the general public will end up laying off employees to reduce payroll AND/OR go out of business if their businesses require substantial labor to operate effectively. Many of them will raise a stink and will probably never recover once things gather momentum.

 

When one group of people have to work (generally hard) for their wealth and there's another group of people who can simply "print" it into existence, it's not going to end well for the majority of the muppets (like me and probably like you as well).

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What's going to happen is the entry jobs will disappear and replacement with robotic devices of some sort at the flipper places and a whole bunch of youngsters will have no employment history to draw upon to get hired somewhere. Prices are going to go up with a built inflation for buying in Seattle not just hamburgers but gasoline, restaurants, clothing , groceries and the list goes on. The best intension's of mice and men often go astray and I feel this is another case.

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I wonder how much of you know that folks in Seattle doesn't get taxed? My sister moved there to work for Amazon and told me that her check doesn't get taxed along with the folks that live in the city.

 

The tradeoff is that their sales tax and such is pretty high, not much higher than ours at 9.50%, but it's still pretty significant. It really makes me wonder how they factored these into the equation.

Well yeah they do pay taxes, but they just don't have taxes taken out of their check. Big difference nevertheless...

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The employers will be forced over time to increase their price of goods to offset the spike in payroll costs to be expected. This is what many business owners are saying. Another concern is that they may choose to cut the hours of the workers they employ. However my understanding is that this has been the practice of employers to begin with before the proposal to raise the minimum wage was passed. Then we also happen to have greedy employers who would like nothing more but to cut corners and downsize to make a bigger profit margin, pocket it, and minimally invest in to operations. Catch 22.

 

This is why in the light of this football throwing we see constantly between private interests and the politicians, those in low income jobs have to see that its pointless to expect the corrupt officials in government to solve their problems. Its better to make individual commitments to get out of this by their own means and make wise decisions not dependant on the bullshit of politics. Education is key to get out of the hole towards a better financially stable situation. For some it will prove to be hard to begin with because they are forced to work well over 40 or 50 hours+ a week to make ends meet.

 

This is where I believe the minimum wage increase will help. If they can make more money to get themselves through college without the fear of evictions or going into default with federal grants and student loans to pay for skyrocketing costs of a college education, because they cannot make the rent, or to have their cars confiscated because they miss monthly payments, it may do better for those who are on the bottom of the ladder trying to reach the glass ceiling making a better life for themselves. But again the risk is cost inflation as Theroem Ox and traingoat were alluding to. I would like to say more but I will wait for responses.

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The employers will be forced over time to increase their price of goods to offset the spike in payroll costs to be expected. This is what many business owners are saying. Another concern is that they may choose to cut the hours of the workers they employ. However my understanding is that this has been the practice of employers to begin with before the proposal to raise the minimum wage was passed. Then we also happen to have greedy employers who would like nothing more but to cut corners and downsize to make a bigger profit margin, pocket it, and minimally invest in to operations. Catch 22.

 

This is why in the light of this football throwing we see constantly between private interests and the politicians, those in low income jobs have to see that its pointless to expect the corrupt officials in government to solve their problems. Its better to make individual commitments to get out of this by their own means and make wise decisions not dependant on the bullshit of politics. Education is key to get out of the hole towards a better financially stable situation. For some it will prove to be hard to begin with because they are forced to work well over 40 or 50 hours+ a week to make ends meet.

 

This is where I believe the minimum wage increase will help. If they can make more money to get themselves through college without the fear of evictions or going into default with federal grants and student loans to pay for skyrocketing costs of a college education, because they cannot make the rent, or to have their cars confiscated because they miss monthly payments, it may do better for those who are on the bottom of the ladder trying to reach the glass ceiling making a better life for themselves. But again the risk is cost inflation as Theroem Ox and traingoat were alluding to. I would like to say more but I will wait for responses.

lol... Whatever they make in income increases is eaten away with fewer hours and higher expenses, so I don't really see how they're benefitting.  The only difference is that they earn more per hour, but their expenses are higher and their hours are less.  There's no point of raising wages to such levels if they aren't going to make a difference.

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lol... Whatever they make in income increases is eaten away with fewer hours and higher expenses, so I don't really see how they're benefitting.  The only difference is that they earn more per hour, but their expenses are higher and their hours are less.  There's no point of raising wages to such levels if they aren't going to make a difference.

 

Keep in mind that its a temporary solution for college students who will make up the professional workforce, short term. What will compensate for cuts in education if the Tea Party conservatives keep on forcing through the house cuts in spending, to education! With NO alternatives! Are they mad?

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Keep in mind that its a temporary solution for college students who will make up the professional workforce, short term. What will compensate for cuts in education if the Tea Party conservatives keep on forcing through the house cuts in spending, to education! With NO alternatives! Are they mad?

I guess so, but the whole purpose of the raises are supposed to be for those who need the most isn't it?

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I guess so, but the whole purpose of the raises are supposed to be for those who need the most isn't it?

 

Yes correct, its for those in need as you were highlighting. I'm simply looking at both arguments for and against the wage increase and tbh, it does makes plenty of sense. So many of the differing points made I do see as factual. I dont see any easy solutions to the rising inflation we are experiencing without someone ending up shafted, its either the hard working middle class and the hard working but unfortunate poor or struggling college student. 

 

I think that in many industries if mass production can be increased, that in itself may be a way to offset costs to the consumer. Buts thats a major undertaking requiring huge sums of money for the corporations to invest into, the financial will to do so might be lacking. As far as employers, the small business entrepreneurs may be the hardest hit as we both know, which is not a good situation to be facing either.

 

I am eagerly waiting to see if this pilot venture into wage reforms with Seattle will actually work short term. It may work, it may not. I guess we'll see.

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Yes correct, its for those in need as you were highlighting. I'm simply looking at both arguments for and against the wage increase and tbh, it does makes plenty of sense. So many of the differing points made I do see as factual. I dont see any easy solutions to the rising inflation we are experiencing without someone ending up shafted, its either the hard middle class and the unfortunate poor or struggling college student. 

 

I think that in many industries if mass production can be increased, that in itself may be a way to offset costs to the consumer. Buts thats a major undertaking requiring huge sums of money for the corporations to invest into, the financial will to do so might be lacking. As far as employers, the small business entrepreneurs may be the hardest hit as we both know, which is not a good situation to be facing either.

 

I am eagerly waiting to see if this pilot venture into wage reforms with Seattle will actually work short term. It may work, it may not. I guess we'll see.

I think an increase is needed too... The question is how much is too much of an increase to actually make a difference...

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I think an increase is needed too... The question is how much is too much of an increase to actually make a difference...

 

Which is true if Seattle already had a $10.78 dollar minimum wage requirement established, which many New Yorkers working in food services or retail for instance would have been grateful for. I guess what you are saying is that balance is key here.

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Which is true if Seattle already had a $10.78 dollar minimum wage requirement established, which many New Yorkers working in food services or retail for instance would have been grateful for. I guess what you are saying is that balance is key here.

Exactly...

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I been hearing that the city may not even have the legal right to increase the minimum wage to $15 so could lead to legal process down the road.

Yes well its not exactly a legal right issue in terms of a decision regarding a sovereignty but it is not in line with the federal statures in place. In fact many business firms has already started lawsuits against the City of Seattle. Since they are not in sync with the federal mandate, they can use that as a justification.

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  • 1 month later...

Let's see what has happened so far:

 

 

While attending an event at a SeaTac hotel last week, I met two women who receive the $15/hour minimum wage. SeaTac has implemented the new law on Jan. 1. I met the women while they were working. One was a waitress and the other was cleaning the hallway.

“Are you happy with the $15 wage?” I asked the full-time cleaning lady.

“It sounds good, but it’s not good,” the woman said.

“Why?” I asked.

“I lost my 401k, health insurance, paid holiday, and vacation,” she responded. “No more free food,” she added.

The hotel used to feed her. Now, she has to bring her own food. Also, no overtime, she said. She used to work extra hours and received overtime pay.

What else? I asked.

“I have to pay for parking,” she said.

I then asked the part-time waitress, who was part of the catering staff.

“Yes, I’ve got $15 an hour, but all my tips are now much less,” she said. Before the new wage law was implemented, her hourly wage was $7. But her tips added to more than $15 an hour. Yes, she used to receive free food and parking. Now, she has to bring her own food and pay for parking.

Source: http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/06/03/we-can-predict-the-effects-of-seattles-15-an-hour-minimum-wage/
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Not surprised... All of the people yelling... Well they got what they wanted... Higher wages... Those people still aren't gaining more net since they have to pay for more things and people tip less...

 

I don't see the big picture of the article. Won't most low skilled jobs disappear in the future regardelss of whether or not the government chooses to raise the national minium wage?

Yes and no.  Some low skilled jobs may be replaced by machines where possible or outsourced, but not all would, but with higher wages cuts would have to be made.

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In my opinion, if the government wants to help the poor, they have to address the root of the problem. The laws of economics are cold and heartless and applies to everything that has value (even non-monetary).

 

Why is diamond more valuable than soot even though they are both carbon?

Why am I, a software engineer and graphics designer, worth more than a janitor even though we are both people?

Why is a $100 bill worth more than a $1 bill even though they are just pieces of cloth?

The key to value is the amount of work "stored" in the "object" or the amount of effort required to obtain it. It takes 5 GPa of pressure and 1500 °C to create a diamond, while soot is created merely by burning wood. It takes talent, years of experience, and continuous learning to become a competent software engineer and graphics designer while anyone can pick up a mop and begin cleaning. Like diamonds, gold, and other precious metals, it takes work to obtain money, and ultimately the worth of the money is determined by what you can get out of it.

 

If the janitor suddenly got paid twice as much, he would be encroaching into my pay territory. I would demand a similar pay raise to reflect the difference between my value and the value of the janitor to the company. In short order, some of the "extra" janitors would probably be fired with perks cut back so that everyone could get a pay raise. In the long run, the appearance of extra money means people are able to pay more for things, raising prices, rents, and pretty much the cost of living. This makes it even worse for those who lost their jobs as a result of the mandatory wage hike. And we're back to square one again if not worse. The janitor should probably learn or develop a skill that has economic value, and the government should create laws to help these people do that.

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To put it bluntly to the poor and unskilled: the laws of economics will always find a way to put you in your place. It will get you fired, make everything always cost more than your can afford, or make your money worth less. It's almost as if there's a malevolent demon at play that ensures that everyone is constantly being devalued and depreciated unless they maintain their skill sets and education. I ask those who think minimum wage raises are valid solutions to provide relief to those down in the dumps: how much would someone bid on you if you were put on an auction?

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To put it bluntly to the poor and unskilled: the laws of economics will always find a way to put you in your place. It will get you fired, make everything always cost more than your can afford, or make your money worth less. It's almost as if there's a malevolent demon at play that ensures that everyone is constantly being devalued and depreciated unless they maintain their skill sets and education. I ask those who think minimum wage raises are valid solutions to provide relief to those down in the dumps: how much would someone bid on you if you were put on an auction?

People just need to accept that in a capitalist society, there will always be those who earn more than others, and trying to "level the playing field" simply isn't possible.

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People just need to accept that in a capitalist society, there will always be those who earn more than others, and trying to "level the playing field" simply isn't possible.

Many people who are poor CAN make it if they apply a formal education, and live life in the middle class with a striving career and in good health. I have known a man who was in asylum from Africa. He went through a nursing program while homeless, sleeping in the back of the kitchen at the restaurant he had worked for. He is now a nursing supervisor making over 200k per year.

 

The American dream, it still exists. 

 

Maybe the problem is that as I have proved to you, this is not a true democratic republic because of that lack pf checks and balances within the capitalist system. Government shutdown anyone?

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I've been beating the drum on education, training, and experience for a while. I wouldn't be anywhere if I didn't study and apply my knowledge to gain experience. Minimum wage, though, goes against the American dream. It makes many of those who are down in the dumps complacent. Some will realize that they could be doing better, but sadly, many will settle for less.

What checks and balances do you recommend? De Blasio recommends that Stuyvesant High School's test-based admissions system be scrapped to make its racial make-up reflect New York City.

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What checks and balances do you recommend? De Blasio recommends that Stuyvesant High School's test-based admissions system be scrapped to make its racial make-up reflect New York City.

 

That school is seriously racially segregated. That was why DeBlasio is trying to bring back multicultural diversity to that school. Its been that way ever since I was in high school. Its been a so called elite school for decades. Much like UC Berkeley, it has similar problems where it comes to racial tensions. Something needs to be done.

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I've been beating the drum on education, training, and experience for a while. I wouldn't be anywhere if I didn't study and apply my knowledge to gain experience. Minimum wage, though, goes against the American dream. It makes many of those who are down in the dumps complacent. Some will realize that they could be doing better, but sadly, many will settle for less.

 

What checks and balances do you recommend? De Blasio recommends that Stuyvesant High School's test-based admissions system be scrapped to make its racial make-up reflect New York City.

and what happens if more blacks simply study and pass the test? Won't better middle school and elementary do the trick? It starts with the community and better parental responsibility. Stop reproducing at young ages and getting pregnant as a teenager. Many in my HS were responsible after getting out. And became productive no they ain't white.

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and what happens if more blacks simply study and pass the test? Won't better middle school and elementary do the trick?

Hush. Let me finish my short essay that basically says the same thing.

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