Rollsign Gallery

[SubwayEngineer12]

Gotcha, Lance

[mine248]

I know now.

[Union Tpke]

Double lettered routes were discontinued in '81 to not make people confused. I saw a brochure about it.

WRONG! It was 1985. I know a lot about subway history.

Courtesy of Joe Korman.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mine248]

That's the brochure I'd was talking about.

[Union Tpke]

That's the brochure I'd was talking about.

yup

[mine248]

Wait up on the date. 1981 gotten new rollsigns. Then officially, in 1985 they new rollsign were put into service.

[Lance]

Trains were sporting the new single-lettered signs as early as '81, but officially (according to the maps), the double-lettered routes were discontinued or converted into single-lettered routes in '85. Some trains got those new signs so early because the signs previously on those cars were so outdated. Some were for the pre-'79 subway lines and colors, some were dated as far back as the Chrystie St opening in 1968 (or even before that in rare cases).

For this week's sign curtain, as promised, we have the side signs from the R68A car class.

Dated: circa 1989

Printed by: Michigan Laser Graphics

Used on/Intended for: R68A cars

Eagle-eyed viewers will note that this sign bears resemblance to the signs found on the R42s, minus the Eastern Division terminals. While most of these curtains were replaced over the years, mainly by the curtains printed in 2001, a few cars still sport these curtains. Oddly enough, R68 car 2788 has both this sign as well as the south terminal one.

While I was going to post the south terminal roll for these cars next week, I've decided to take on a couple of requests. Next week, we'll look at one of the last front signs printed for the R27s and R30s. Stay tuned.

Edited November 21, 2018 by Lance

[46Dover]

Different font style too.

 

I remember when I went to a Coney Island Yard Open House, I saw a R68 with 68A signs. It was weird

[Union Tpke]

Thanks once again Lance!

[Lance]

Yeah no problem.

 

This week's sign curtain takes us to when the R32s and R38s were either beginning their overhauls or they were already in progress. This was also the year when the subway would see its first expansion in about 20 years.

Dated: 14 October, 1988

Printed by: Transign

Used On/Intended for: R30-R38 car classes

The last front route signs printed for the remaining cars from the R16-R38 series of car classes, this marks the first time the routes printed on them are grouped in the now-familiar ACHE pattern with the JFK Express preceding it.As you can see, the grouping is as follows: 8th Avenue to Jamaica/Queens Blvd to Broadway to 6th Avenue to Nassau St to the Canarsie line, shuttle and "White Lines". Speaking of the White Lines, this is the only route sign to include these unused letters. Similarly, the side signs printed for these cars also had/have these routes on them as well. While these signs were probably intended for the non-overhauled R32s and R38s, I don't believe they ever received them and simply retained their signs from 1981 or '84.

A couple of notes: first, since Flickr is being annoying (again), I've decided to use Imgur to host this week's sign. Let me know if there are any problems viewing it. Secondly, you'll note I've included a header of sorts on this sign. In real life, most if not all of the signs I've posted previously have these little descriptors at each end with information of which company printed the sign and its contractor. I decided to emulate that (to the best of my ability since most of that information is not really available unless you own the entire roll, which I don't). Feedback is appreciated. Next week, we'll look at the destination sign that goes along with this one. Stay tuned.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Lance

[Union Tpke]

Yeah no problem.

 

This week's sign curtain takes us to when the R32s and R38s were either beginning their overhauls or they were already in progress. This was also the year when the subway would see its first expansion in about 20 years.

 

Thanks again Lance!

[SubwayEngineer12]

Nice

[Lance]

Good afternoon everyone. As promised, here is the destination roll that goes along with the route roll I posted last week.

Dated: 1988

Printed by: Transign

Used on/Intended for: R27-R38

As with the route sign printed at or around the same time, this is the last destination sign printed for the R27-R38 series of cars. This is also the only bulkhead sign to include "21 St-Queensbridge", "145 St Manhattan" and show Jamaica Center as "Jamaica Center". Previous signs would show the station as "Parsons Blvd". There are also a few other additions compared to the 1980 and 1981 destination rolls.

Next week, we'll stay "current" with something from the R40s.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Lance

[Union Tpke]

Thank you again Lance!

[Lance]

Good evening. Here is this week's sign curtain.

 

Dated: 1988.01.25

Printed by: Teleweld

Used on/Intended for: R40/R40M

This is the first sign printed for the R40s following their overhaul. When the cars were overhauled in the late '80s, the original sign boxes that held one curtain were replaced with ones that contains the now-standard three curtains, two for the north and south terminals and another for the route.

For whatever reason, several signs were printed for both the R40s and R42s, each with slight differences to each other. I'll showcase those at a later date so this doesn't become monotonous (and bore me). Next week, we'll look at one of the south destination signs.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Lance

[Union Tpke]

Great job Lance!

[Lance]

As promised, here's the other destination sign to complement the one I posted last week.

Dated: 25 January, 1988

Printed by: Teleweld

Used on/Intended for: R40/R40M cars

As mentioned with last week's sign curtain, this is one of at least two similar south destination signs printed for the R40 cars.

Next week, we'll wrap up the "current" side signs for the R40s with the most recent route curtain printed for them.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Lance

[46Dover]

Lance would you have info about rollsigns used on the 1986-88 Manhattan Bridge reroutes to include 34 Street terminations of the and ?

 

 

And for the next station sign request

 

Downtown &

Brooklyn via

DeKalb Av

 

/ To Broad St

Either train

 

To Coney Island

via Brighton Local.

Weekdays and evenings only

 

Other times

use on

lower level

 

Note: brown M

Thanks

Dover

[Union Tpke]

Great job LANCE!

[Lance]

Due to a hard drive failure, the gallery is temporarily closed until further notice. I apologize for the inconvenience.

[Lance]

I'm going to answer this here since it pertains more to the gallery.

 

On ‎1‎/‎11‎/‎2015 at 3:59 PM, 46Dover said:

What I was among was how were the   and   signs were used when they ended at 34th Street in 1986 with the cars they had

According to the January 1987 car assignment list (closest to the 1986 closure of the north tracks that I could find), the Broadway B ran R40s while the Broadway D used a combination of R42s and newly-arriving R68s. Of course, those assignments were a simply a guideline and it was possible that other trains ran on these lines as well, especially considering the car overhauls that were happening at the time.

However, for the sake of discussion, let's just take the assigned cars. The 68s would at this point still be using it's original left-justified destination curtains and alphabetically-arranged route curtains. The latter didn't have options for the Broadway B or D as those signs were current up to 1985. "34 St-Herald Sq" was also not an option for a terminal on the destination signs either. Ironically, the station would not be on the signs until the next time the north tracks were closed in 2001.

The 40s and 42s fared better in terms of correct signage. Again, these cars were undergoing their general overhauls, which replaced the original one-piece sign curtain with the current three-piece design. Those cars more than likely had the right signs for the B and D since new curtains had to be ordered for the new sign boxes. The non-overhauled cars however, were more of a mixed bag. Cars that had the one-piece colored curtains from 1985 had the Broadway B (not D for some reason though). Those that used the black and white signs from '85 or '86 did not have options for either Broadway route.

All in all, while most cars that used the typical three-piece rollsign design were able to show the correct route (or close enough to not confuse people), it was likely not a rare find for a Broadway train to sport a 6th Avenue bullet or worse, their pre-closure 6th Avenue full route. Oddly enough, the cars that retained the early to mid 1980s curtains had them replaced in 1988 for the Archer Ave opening, just in time for the both versions of the B and D to be merged back together.

By the way, the gallery should reopen next month.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Lance

[Union Tpke]

 

I'm going to answer this here since it pertains more to the gallery.

 

 

According to the January 1987 car assignment list (closest to the 1986 closure of the north tracks that I could find), the Broadway B ran R40s while the Broadway D used a combination of R42s and newly-arriving R68s. Of course, those assignments were a simply a guideline and it was possible that other trains ran on these lines as well, especially considering the car overhauls that were happening at the time.

 

However, for the sake of discussion, let's just take the assigned cars. The 68s would at this point still be using it's original left-justified destination curtains and alphabetically-arranged route curtains. The latter didn't have options for the Broadway B or D as those signs were current up to 1985. "34 St-Herald Sq" was also not an option for a terminal on the destination signs either. Ironically, the station would not be on the signs until the next time the north tracks were closed in 2001.

 

The 40s and 42s fared better in terms of correct signage. Again, these cars were undergoing their general overhauls, which replaced the original one-piece sign curtain with the current three-piece design. Those cars more than likely had the right signs for the B and D since new curtains had to be ordered for the new sign boxes. The non-overhauled cars however, were more of a mixed bag. Cars that had the one-piece colored curtains from 1985 had the Broadway B (not D for some reason though). Those that used the black and white signs from '85 or '86 did not have options for either Broadway route.

 

All in all, while most cars that used the typical three-piece rollsign design were able to show the correct route (or close enough to not confuse people), it was likely not a rare find for a Broadway train to sport a 6th Avenue bullet or worse, their pre-closure 6th Avenue full route. Oddly enough, the cars that retained the early to mid 1980s curtains had them replaced in 1988 for the Archer Ave opening, just in time for the both versions of the B and D to be merged back together.

 

By the way, the gallery should reopen next month.

 

That's great news! I love your roll signs!

[MHV9218]

Curious to know about the second variety of signs printed for the R16s, R27s, R30s, and R32/R38s during the 1969 'colorful period.' I know that one set was modeled after the R44 design with the color of the bullet taking up the whole space in the route section of the rollsign, with the letters in a white circle in the middle. This was in Akzidenz-Grotesk. However, there was also another variety of these signs printed in the same style with a different font -- one that looks like a lot like the font used for the R40 front and side curtain signs upon delivery. Do you know anything about that set of signs?

[Lance]

You're talking about the bulkhead signs, right? Yeah, for some reason, there were versions printed in both Akzidenz/Standard and the older block-style font that was seen in most sign curtains up until the slants. I guess that, until the graphics standards was officially adopted by the MTA in 1970, they had little interest in changing the design any more than they had to.

On a side note, I'm still looking for a font at least close enough to replicate the older signs from the '60s, but nothing has come close enough to meet my standards. If anyone finds a font that looks the one used in this roll sign, hit me up. While I could just make the font, which is looking more likely, I'd rather not have to if I could avoid it.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Lance

[46Dover]

On the R32 roll signs, I saw a <J> Jamaica-Nassau-Brighton sign. Did anyone else see this and did it mean there plans to revive the old line?