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On ‎8‎/‎14‎/‎2014 at 4:22 PM, 46Dover said:

Reading on the 68 north signs not on the 27s

21 St-Queensbridge

 

There was actually a sign for the R32s for 21 Street-Queensbridge for the (Q) when it ran via 6 Av during the Broadway closure of the Manhattan Br.

I meant on the 81-84 signs. As you can see on the posted image of the 1981 north signs, 21 St-Queensbridge was not an option as a terminal on the signs. On the later 1988 and '89 signs, this as well as several other stations were added as potential terminals.

Since I'm not exactly finished with what I wanted to post for this week's sign curtain, I figured I'd post this one as a holdover of sorts.

14777042358_e40b3bdd20_o.png

Compare to this post.

Modified: 08/1989

This modification, which covered the first JFK Express reading, was done to reflect the late-night service pattern on 63rd Street.

There are a few of these modifications done to some of the rollsigns. I'll post them eventually. Hopefully I'll be done with my intended sign by next week. Until then, stand by.

Edited by Lance
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I meant on the 81-84 signs. As you can see on the posted image of the 1981 north signs, 21 St-Queensbridge was not an option as a terminal on the signs. On the later 1988 and '89 signs, this as well as several other stations were added as potential terminals.

 

Since I'm not exactly finished with what I wanted to post for this week's sign curtain, I figured I'd post this one as a holdover of sorts.

Compare to this post.

Modified: 08/1989

This modification, which covered the first JFK Express reading, was done to reflect the late-night service pattern on 63rd Street.

 

There are a few of these modifications done to some of the rollsigns. I'll post them eventually. Hopefully I'll be done with my intended sign by next week. Until then, stand by.

Thank you so much Lance! I have been wanting to see that F/Q roll sign for so long. Thank you. Yet again I applaud you for your work!

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Thanks UT. What is the story with the (F) and (Q) sign?

your welcome

There was

there WAS an FQ (really!). when Qs terminated at 21 Queens-bridge, late nights. Some 46s even had black on white signs proclaiming as much.

Most trains changed their front roll sign from F to Q at Broadway-Lafayette going northbound. There was a reminder sign for the T/Os located at the ten-car marker.

 have seen a picture of a side sign designation claiming something along the lines of F Coney Island Q 21 Queensbridge on a single reading. 

I remember hearing from A CR that there was a bulletin for CRs to state at Bway Lafayette and at 47/50 that "This train is now an F/Q train to..."

 

Officially, the F terminated at 47/50, and the Q ran local down 6th ave to Bway Lafayette.

The "rule" was while going northbound to change the front sign from F to Q at B'way/Laf. Perhaps there were some inconsistencies as perhaps the non-regulars didn't do that, a regular guy forgot, or a c/r neglected to adjust the side sign readings. 

Posted by randyo on Sat May 23 21:21:49 2009, in response to Re: Double Letters, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sat May 23 16:06:18 2009.

 
The train wasn't called an "F/Q" per se but it did carry an F/Q side roll sign which read "F between Stillwell and 50/6 Q between 50/6 and 21 St/Queensbridge." The M/M were to display the F end sign until 50/6 and change the sign to Q at 50 St. S/B the M/M was to display the Q end sign from 21 St to 50 St and then change it to F for the remainder of the trip. The TA's logic behind this was that rather than confusing passengers by showing 3 services operating to 21 St (B, F, and Q) officially only 2 services would operate to 21 St, the B and Q. Never mind the fact that passengers would be more confused by a train that changed its identity enroute. Another example of the "cesspool of incompetence" that makes up much of the TA's managerial staff! 
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That was the only good thing about the proposed draconian service cuts made in '91. It would've consolidated the services on 63rd Street to the B during the day and the F at night. Even when it was decided to keep the F on Queens Blvd at night and have 63rd Street served by a shuttle, the B and Q still served the line at different parts of the day/week.

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Speaking of the 1991 service cuts proposal, this week's rollsign is directly related to this idea.

 

15034784312_fda1ef3936_o.png

Dated: circa 1992

Printed by: Teleweld

Used on/Intended for: R110B/R131 car class

The R131, otherwise known as the R110Bs were the last cars built to use sign curtains. These curtains in particular, with the exception of small handful for a pilot program on a few R62 sets, are the only ones that included destinations for some routes. Also of note is the inclusion of the orange A. This particular bullet was on the curtain because of a modification to the MTA's 1991 service cuts plan. Instead of sending the Q to 207 St, which drew complaints from riders bemoaning the loss of their legendary A service to Upper Manhattan, the new plan called for sending the A trains down 6th Avenue to Brighton Beach instead. You may also note the Canarsie K, which would've been used as part of a Canarsie skip-stop service.

 

You may remember last week, I said I wasn't ready to post this sign yet. It wasn't so much because the sign itself wasn't ready, but rather because I wanted to finish a couple of other goodies related to this sign. Though in retrospect, I'm glad I waited to post this curtain because I didn't like how it looked before. For the past few weeks, I've been combing the net looking for information about how service would've run with the '91 cuts plan. Eric B's site was a nice starting point, but details were lacking. After doing some digging, I came across an old SubTalk post from many moons ago, which helped shed some light on this subject. With the service patterns known for all of the affected lines, I was finally able to make the map to illustrate this service. I've posted them in the downloads section of this site, but until they're verified, they'll also be hosted on MediaFire.

 

http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/files/file/117-1991-service-capacity-plan-version-1-q-to-207-st/ - Version 1 (Q to 207 St)

http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/files/file/118-1991-service-capacity-plan-version-2-a-via-6th-avenue/ - Version 2 (orange A)

 

Enjoy.

Edited by Lance
changed links to ones hosted here
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Wow! Thanks so much Lance, I really wanted to see the R110B rollsign!

 

Thanks so much for your work on the '91 Cuts! I have always wondered about 'em! Thanks for going the extra mile to make the diagrams!

Edited by Union Tpke
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Very cool, I have a big collection of signs and I always wanted this one. I was told that the sign room in Coney Island Yard and a massive box of these signs and they were intended to be used on the R40/42/44/46 cars which use the same signs. As the story goes though, all those signs were thrown out. 

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Very cool, I have a big collection of signs and I always wanted this one. I was told that the sign room in Coney Island Yard and a massive box of these signs and they were intended to be used on the R40/42/44/46 cars which use the same signs. As the story goes though, all those signs were thrown out.

What a shame/waste

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On ‎8‎/‎25‎/‎2014 at 11:24 PM, INDman said:

Very cool, I have a big collection of signs and I always wanted this one. I was told that the sign room in Coney Island Yard and a massive box of these signs and they were intended to be used on the R40/42/44/46 cars which use the same signs. As the story goes though, all those signs were thrown out. 

That does not surprise me in the slightest. I guess they wanted to be proactive in case the orange A proposal went through so all the trains would have proper signage. It's a shame they were thrown out. They could have at least sold them.

On the subject of unused signs, we move back to the R10s for this week's roll curtain.

14923570119_d283e8db59_o.png

Dated: 1968.12.10

Intended for: R10 cars

As with the route sign created around the same time, this curtain was also printed but never used.

The R10s south destination signs will be posted soon, though not next week. Next week, we'll see something from the 68As.

Edited by Lance
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That does not surprise me in the slightest. I guess they wanted to be proactive in case the orange A proposal went through so all the trains would have proper signage. It's a shame they were thrown out. They could have at least sold them.

 

On the subject of unused signs, we move back to the R10s for this week's roll curtain.

 

<image removed>

Dated: 1968.12.10

Intended for: R10 cars

As with the route sign created around the same time, this curtain was also printed but never used.

 

The R10s south destination signs will be posted soon, though not next week. Next week, we'll see something from the 68As.

 

The rollsign is useless.

 

Please don't quote the images.

 

Lance

Edited by Lance
see note in red
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The R32 and R38 gotten rid of their rollsign (front) after 1988. The remaining were retired.

But that still leaves the 27s and 30s so I know what I'm talking about. And that statement is untrue. Yes, the 32s and 38s were going through their GOH process around this time, but the remaining cars that weren't GOHed still had front destination rollsigns up until the 90s

Edited by SubwayEngineer12
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But that still leaves the 27s and 30s so I know what I'm talking about. And that statement is untrue. Yes, the 32s and 38s were going through their GOH process around this time, but the remaining cars that weren't GOHed still had front destination rollsigns up until the 90s

When those were retired by the R68/R68A series?
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Huh?

Precisely. 

 

While the 32s and 38s retained their front signs until they were overhauled, they likely kept the '81-'84 signs up until then. The redbird 27s along with the 30s however, did receive new sign curtains to correspond with the opening of Archer Ave and the eventual opening of 63rd Street. Don't believe me?

 

img_4549.jpg

28 April, 1989

R27 8236 in (C) service

Aqueduct-North Conduit Av (Rockaways Line)

 

145 St wasn't an option for a terminal on the older signs.

 

img_70056.jpg

10 November, 1991

R30 8271 on a fan trip

York St (IND Culver Line)

 

"Queens" was not included on earlier readings for 179 St.

 

Answering the question, yes, I do have information on both the route and destination signs from 1988. However, I have not created them yet. They'll likely be released in the coming weeks. Not next week though I'm afraid.

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Okay...? I'm not sure where that fits into the previous discussion about the '88 signs on the bulkheads of the 27s and 30s, but whatever. And by the way, while sign curtains were printed in '81 with single-lettered routes only, elimination of the double-lettered routes didn't occur until 1985.

 

@SubwayEngineer12: I'm well aware that you knew this. I posted those images as proof to anyone who didn't believe there were new curtains printed after '84 for the R27-R38 cars' front signs.

Edited by Lance
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