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  • 8 months later...

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Noticed that people haven't posted here in a while, so I decided to give it a shot. Here's my recreation of the R62 rollsign (with some help from Some Train Enthusiast). I still need confirmation of some aspects of the rollsign, but this should capture most of it. Correct font for the bullets.unknown.png

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  • 1 month later...
On 8/1/2020 at 1:28 PM, BenTheMiner said:

Noticed that people haven't posted here in a while, so I decided to give it a shot. Here's my recreation of the R62 rollsign (with some help from Some Train Enthusiast). I still need confirmation of some aspects of the rollsign, but this should capture most of it. Correct font for the bullets.unknown.png

Nice work! However fyi, there is no 8 reading on the original R62/A rolls. That was an addition part of the 62A replacement rolls printed in 1988, which include the 8-13 bullets and text reading "Express" under the <6> and <7>. Great to see you used Akzidenz and Condensed for this though, that's key to the design.

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  • 3 weeks later...
1 hour ago, Union Tpke said:

@Lance @MHV9218@Ilia  I have a few questions that any of you might be able to answer.

First, do you have any explanation for why this was done?

Second, anyone have an explanation for this? I would love to know what the other readings on this curtain were.

41061110_10156580072286704_6601392556750143488_o

 

The first is an experimental addition to the 62A rolls that a handful of cars got. You can see it's actually taped on to the front of the roll, which is a 1988 addition with 1-13. All those rolls were scrapped anyway in the latest SMS for the all-Helvetica rolls, so any cars that had this addition no longer have it. 

The latter is the original R44 print, which was a mixture of some handcut in-house font and oddly-spaced Akzidenz-Grotesk. It was printed just before the Culver Shuttle was closed, so that makes an appearance. I saved a photo of the roll once, though this isn't my photo originally:

50380824956_8367c20974_b.jpg

Note the Identra tabs above and below each roll, like on R46s. In theory these were all remotely-selected from the cabin, how well that worked I don't know.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/9/2020 at 12:00 PM, MHV9218 said:

Nice work! However fyi, there is no 8 reading on the original R62/A rolls. That was an addition part of the 62A replacement rolls printed in 1988, which include the 8-13 bullets and text reading "Express" under the <6> and <7>. Great to see you used Akzidenz and Condensed for this though, that's key to the design.

Thanks for letting me know! I'll make the modification.

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On 10/9/2020 at 12:11 PM, BenTheMiner said:

Thanks for letting me know! I'll make the modification.

I'm back with the corrected R62/original R62A rollsign! 8 train has been removed.unknown.png

Additionally, I also made the R62A rollsign versions that I'm aware about! The 1988 version is the most accurate as there are YouTube videos featuring it.

1988 R62A version:unknown.png

2009 R62A version (features 1 train short turn destination route bullet experiment):unknown.png

Latest R62A version (entire sign in Neue Haas Grotesk, Express text same color as bullet, NIS centered, year unsure):unknown.png

Please give me some feedback, and any corrections that need to be made!

Also, here are the YouTube video reference links:

https://youtu.be/hxLD-5WkHbU
https://youtu.be/TAzBbKxB4k0
https://youtu.be/tn_rQiFrwLU
https://youtu.be/yAMi0V39ss4

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  • 2 weeks later...

Here is probably the most accurate rollsign with correct fonts, sizes, and spacing. This is the vertical IRT end route rollsign found on Redbird-class trains. According to the end rollsign readings, this rollsign contract was for the R17, R21, R22, R26, R28, R29, R33, and R36. All of the route bullets are in Neue Haas Grotesk medium, with the express route bullet text being the same size as the circle route bullet text, and the shuttle ("S") route bullet text being just a bit smaller than the rest. The miscellaneous text readings, "Special" and "Not in Service" are in Standard Condensed Bold.

unknown.png

Also, here is the YouTube video reference link (thank you to Some Train Enthusiast):

https://youtu.be/gaiYaoc_U-I

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15 minutes ago, BenTheMiner said:

Here is probably the most accurate rollsign with correct fonts, sizes, and spacing. This is the vertical IRT end route rollsign found on Redbird-class trains. According to the end rollsign readings, this rollsign contract was for the R17-R36. All of the route bullets are in Neue Haas Grotesk medium, with the express route bullet text being the same size as the circle route bullet text, and the shuttle ("S") route bullet text being just a bit smaller than the rest. The miscellaneous text readings, "Special" and "Not in Service" are in Standard Condensed Bold.

unknown.png

Also, here is the YouTube video reference link (thank you to Some Train Enthusiast):

https://youtu.be/gaiYaoc_U-I

I bet they'll look great on the latest version of the IRT Redbirds

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3 hours ago, K Train 8 Av-Fulton said:

I bet they'll look great on the latest version of the IRT Redbirds

The latest route rollsign on the IRT Redbirds includes large route text and the addition of the 9 train route bullet. Fortunately, I have sufficient references for this rollsign, so I'll be making it.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/24/2020 at 4:27 PM, BenTheMiner said:

Here is probably the most accurate rollsign with correct fonts, sizes, and spacing. This is the vertical IRT end route rollsign found on Redbird-class trains. According to the end rollsign readings, this rollsign contract was for the R17, R21, R22, R26, R28, R29, R33, and R36. All of the route bullets are in Neue Haas Grotesk medium, with the express route bullet text being the same size as the circle route bullet text, and the shuttle ("S") route bullet text being just a bit smaller than the rest. The miscellaneous text readings, "Special" and "Not in Service" are in Standard Condensed Bold.

Also, here is the YouTube video reference link (thank you to Some Train Enthusiast):

https://youtu.be/gaiYaoc_U-I

Great work on these as well as the R62A replacements.

There are so many different versions of the redbird front rollsigns. Helvetica bullets are the most common, like you replicated, but there were also Akzidenz-Grotesk bullets, Helvetica/Arial bullets, and eventually the 1-9 addition Helvetica rolls from 1990 or so.

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On 11/1/2020 at 8:25 PM, MHV9218 said:

Great work on these as well as the R62A replacements.

There are so many different versions of the redbird front rollsigns. Helvetica bullets are the most common, like you replicated, but there were also Akzidenz-Grotesk bullets, Helvetica/Arial bullets, and eventually the 1-9 addition Helvetica rolls from 1990 or so.

Thank you! Yep, I'm aware of the 1-9 roll and I have the 1-4 exposures for the Standard roll, but I don't have the rest so I won't be able to recreate that one.

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11 minutes ago, BenTheMiner said:

Thank you! Yep, I'm aware of the 1-9 roll and I have the 1-4 exposures for the Standard roll, but I don't have the rest so I won't be able to recreate that one.

Here's a record for you, if the angle doesn't bother you: 

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/nycta-subway-front-route-rollsign-135756131

These were made by American Identification Products, who were generally responsible for some of the more interesting and colorful rollsigns of the 70s and 80s. Spec mentions the R21s but not the R17s, so may be later in the 1980s.

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On 11/3/2020 at 4:15 PM, MHV9218 said:

Here's a record for you, if the angle doesn't bother you: 

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/nycta-subway-front-route-rollsign-135756131

These were made by American Identification Products, who were generally responsible for some of the more interesting and colorful rollsigns of the 70s and 80s. Spec mentions the R21s but not the R17s, so may be later in the 1980s.

This will allow me to recreate the rollsign, so thanks!

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  • 5 months later...
On 11/15/2020 at 12:07 PM, K Train 8 Av-Fulton said:

If I knew those A Division Rollsigns and B Division Rollsigns, then we wouldn't have such confusion. I even knew about the Post-GOH R32 and R38 Rollsigns as well...

I'm not sure what you're trying to imply, but are you saying that you wanted to know about what rollsigns there were? If so, I am currently compiling signs here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d9cQ8mAmp78AtavgXt4lAu5ey7Uimp2sEKNHuoY0nQU/edit#gid=0

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On 10/10/2020 at 6:45 PM, BenTheMiner said:

I'm back with the corrected R62/original R62A rollsign! 8 train has been removed.unknown.png

Additionally, I also made the R62A rollsign versions that I'm aware about! The 1988 version is the most accurate as there are YouTube videos featuring it.

1988 R62A version:unknown.png

2009 R62A version (features 1 train short turn destination route bullet experiment):unknown.png

Latest R62A version (entire sign in Neue Haas Grotesk, Express text same color as bullet, NIS centered, year unsure):unknown.png

Please give me some feedback, and any corrections that need to be made!

Also, here are the YouTube video reference links:

https://youtu.be/hxLD-5WkHbU
https://youtu.be/TAzBbKxB4k0
https://youtu.be/tn_rQiFrwLU
https://youtu.be/yAMi0V39ss4

Interesting to learn. I never knew they even made new Redbird roll signs with a (9) bullet in the late 1990s. Interesting how they included just the (9) bullet and not the 8, 10, 11, 12 or 13 bullets, like the R62As had. 

But I find it more interesting to know that the 2009 and latest versions of the R62A rolls signs still have 8-13 bullets, years after the (9) was discontinued.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/5/2021 at 3:45 PM, T to Dyre Avenue said:

Interesting to learn. I never knew they even made new Redbird roll signs with a (9) bullet in the late 1990s. Interesting how they included just the (9) bullet and not the 8, 10, 11, 12 or 13 bullets, like the R62As had. 

But I find it more interesting to know that the 2009 and latest versions of the R62A rolls signs still have 8-13 bullets, years after the (9) was discontinued.

The MTA makes weird decisions when it comes to signs. The extra bullets were probably only a thing they proposed to test on the R62A. Too bad they never got used, but that's what makes it weird how they kept it in while printing the newer rollsign.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/30/2021 at 8:15 PM, K Train 8 Av-Fulton said:

The original R62/A rollsign fonts were all replaced by the Helvetica font, which is still currently in use.

Correct. I've already recreated that rollsign in an earlier post. Unlike the R62A, the R62 still retains its original rollsigns.

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  • 2 months later...
  • 8 months later...
2 hours ago, Jyellow said:

What font is that even?

The MTA used the font "Gothic725" for a short while. It's practically a thin version of Akzidenz Grotesk or NYCTA Standard. The K train route bullet is an exception as it is printed in Akzidenz Grotesk or NYCTA Standard unlike the other bullets. I'm not sure what the reason for this is. This is also the case on the R110B rollsign that uses Gothic725.

Edited by BenTheMiner
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/8/2022 at 11:21 AM, BenTheMiner said:

The MTA used the font "Gothic725" for a short while. It's practically a thin version of Akzidenz Grotesk or NYCTA Standard. The K train route bullet is an exception as it is printed in Akzidenz Grotesk or NYCTA Standard unlike the other bullets. I'm not sure what the reason for this is. This is also the case on the R110B rollsign that uses Gothic725.

Wow. Theve definitely gone through many font changes I see.

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