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Railfan Harassment at Northport Station on LIRR


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I wouldn't expect him to, but his refusal to do so just goes back to my point... The sense of self-entitlement at all costs... My photo is more important than everything and everyone else...

And why shouldn't it be? It's not harming anyone; it's certainly not killing anyone. IF for some reason, it irks you that someone is taking a photo or recording, then WALK THE F**K away. No conflict. Simple as that.

 

I find it funny that, again, railfans should be encouraged to give up railfanning just for other people's comfort when conservatives can't stand it when other people ask them to give up their automatic firearms for other people's sense of security. <-- a point that I made before, which you failed to address.

 

We are ALL self entitled to some extent, so your use of that argument here really lacks power. You've been accused of being entitled plenty of times before when it comes to certain other topics, so it shouldn't surprise me to see you throwing it around in this topic.

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It isn't, but my point still stands.... Go outside of this place and the point of view will be vastly different than the ones being conveyed here.

And honestly, who cares? Those people don't understand railfans, so why should railfans care if those who don't understand judge?

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I think the only people who will side with you are railfans... Just saying...

Bruh, similar situations have happened to regular people too. Like those who film buildings, bridges, so on and so forth. Now unless it was legitimately against the law, policy or rules to do so, then okay, but other than that, it's open game.

 

It applies to more than just railfans. Just like people have their own rights, we do too. Even some tourists get harassed in some way when it comes to filming and photo taking. And if you're gonna sit there and tell me that THAT never happens, then you're just as ignorant as those who thinks they're above a group of people or anything of the sort.

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And why shouldn't it be? It's not harming anyone; it's certainly not killing anyone. IF for some reason, it irks you that someone is taking a photo or recording, then WALK THE F**K away. No conflict. Simple as that.

 

I find it funny that, again, railfans should be encouraged to give up railfanning just for other people's comfort when conservatives can't stand it when other people ask them to give up their automatic firearms for other people's sense of security. <-- a point that I made before, which you failed to address.

 

We are ALL self entitled to some extent, so your use of that argument here really lacks power. You've been accused of being entitled plenty of times before when it comes to certain other topics, so it shouldn't surprise me to see you throwing it around in this topic.

 

And honestly, who cares? Those people don't understand railfans, so why should railfans care if those who don't understand judge?

Is that what it's about? A lack of understanding? Not self-entitlement?

Bruh, similar situations have happened to regular people too. Like those who film buildings, bridges, so on and so forth. Now unless it was legitimately against the law, policy or rules to do so, then okay, but other than that, it's open game.

 

It applies to more than just railfans. Just like people have their own rights, we do too. Even some tourists get harassed in some way when it comes to filming and photo taking. And if you're gonna sit there and tell me that THAT never happens, then you're just as ignorant as those who thinks they're above a group of people or anything of the sort.

Of course it does, but hey it's not going to change.  You guys act like it's happening just because and what's even more troubling is this notion that terrorism is over.  Just because we've had several planned attacks thwarted doesn't mean we're no longer a target.  It just makes us lucky.

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Is that what it's about? A lack of understanding? Not self-entitlement?

Perhaps it is... in fact, I would say that it is for both parties. I will admit, again, that you did make a good point about those personally scared by 9/11, and I respect that fact.

 

But also, again, I will make the point that a lack of understanding (also known as ignorance), still isn't a valid excuse to just call someone a "f**king terrorist." The moment that guy said that, my mind was made up in the fact that I was going to stand my ground and publicly take him down (and all those like him) a few pegs.

 

^ oh look, I made a reference to this specific point again. Perhaps if it wasn't clear before that this is my main gripe, it will be now.

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Perhaps it is... in fact, I would say that it is for both parties. I will admit, again, that you did make a good point about those personally scared by 9/11, and I respect that fact.

 

But also, again, I will make the point that a lack of understanding (also known as ignorance), still isn't a valid excuse to just call someone a "f**king terrorist." The moment that guy said that, my mind was made up in the fact that I was going to stand my ground and publicly take him down (and all those like him) a few pegs.

Problem is I don't think you accomplished that, but if you think so then sure... I tend to agree with Truckie's comment.

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Is that what it's about? A lack of understanding? Not self-entitlement?

 

Of course it does, but hey it's not going to change.  You guys act like it's happening just because and what's even more troubling is this notion that terrorism is over.  Just because we've had several planned attacks thwarted doesn't mean we're no longer a target.  It just makes us lucky.

 

There has not been any notion that terrorism is over. It's the notion that we're accused of it and that we are "terrorists". What in the hell are you even talking about?

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Problem is I don't think you accomplished that, but if you think so then sure... I tend to agree with Truckie's comment.

And again, going back to Truckie's comment, I could care less about what others think ultimately about how this reflects on the railfan community. One of my core principles is that I refuse to be a silent victim. Insult me all you want, I could care less; accuse me of being something that I'm CLEARLY not, and boy, whatever filters I normally have will go right out the window.

 

But of course you wouldn't understand, because you've never been called a "f**king terrorist" to your face, have you?

 

And of course you tend to agree with Truckie's comment. As you both stated before, neither of you are railfans, so you'd never be able to see this sort of situation from a hobbyist's perspective.

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And again, going back to Truckie's comment, I could care less about what others think ultimately about how this reflects on the railfan community. One of my core principles is that I refuse to be a silent victim. Insult me all you want, I could care less; accuse me of being something that I'm CLEARLY not, and boy, whatever filters I normally have will go right out the window.

 

But of course you wouldn't understand, because you've never been called a "f**king terrorist" to your face, have you?

Or been called on by cops for taking pictures or whatever

...or by transit employees or city officials that don't even know the rules, the law or our rights

.....or by a bunch of authority figures and self-righteous people who think they're above the law and neglects our rights.

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Or been called on by cops for taking pictures or whatever

...or by transit employees or city officials that don't even know the law or our rights

.....or by a bunch of authority figures and self-righteous people who think they're above the law and neglects our rights.

Exactly...

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I wouldn't expect him to, but his refusal to do so just goes back to my point... The sense of self-entitlement at all costs... My photo is more important than everything and everyone else...

 

I don't think you understand how human interactions work. If someone is a dick then their request should not be fulfilled irregardless of how much merit it has. If he felt he was in danger than there were more intelligent ways to handle the conflict... what transpired in the video is the stupidest thing he could have done.

 

You could try looking at it from the other perspective too, since you like to harp on about that so much... why shouldn't his photo be considered more important than some pseudo-vigilante getting his panties in a twist? Why shouldn't he continue to enjoy his hobby despite what some a**hole thinks?

 

And why shouldn't it be? It's not harming anyone; it's certainly not killing anyone. IF for some reason, it irks you that someone is taking a photo or recording, then WALK THE F**K away. No conflict. Simple as that.

 

I find it funny that, again, railfans should be encouraged to give up railfanning just for other people's comfort when conservatives can't stand it when other people ask them to give up their automatic firearms for other people's sense of security. <-- a point that I made before, which you failed to address.

I agree with this. It's readily apparent that he hates railfans and it's never been more apparent than now, with his clamoring for us to give up our hobby.

 

 

 

And honestly, who cares? Those people don't understand railfans, so why should railfans care if those who don't understand judge?

 

Also agreed. The average member of the public is too busy thinking that we are retarded for having non-mainstream hobbies, so their opinions are pretty much worthless in this scenario anyway.

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Thats why it's very important to educate ourselves as to the freedoms we as Americans are given.

 

Don Phillips had an editorial on an issue of Trains magazine, titled "Your Rights are Precious, Don't Just Throw Them Away". In this article, he says "Railfans are being harassed by Police Officers and fearful citizens who think that the Bill of Rights is something you get from the waitress at the end of the meal"

 

He also has some advice from Walter Zullig who is a retired General Counsel for Metro North if you are approached by an officer (mainly on public property).

 

If the officer is courteous, then there is no reason for you to be courteous. Otherwise if he continues to be a jerk, you are inclined to do nothing but provide your first and last name, then get his name and badge number (which should be in plain sight), say you will report him to his supervisor and walk away. But you must do so immediately and not let this go. Often times, upper level management will see the officer made a dumb and uninformed mistake

 

 

 

Key point: if you should go out and railfan, do so on public property, with a copy of MTA rules which I think should be available

 

Phillips also says Zullig can not represent you personally but can give you advice and help you find an attorney

 

Or for the final blow: contact the ACLU

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There has not been any notion that terrorism is over. It's the notion that we're accused of it and that we are "terrorists". What in the hell are you even talking about?

Yeah well like I said sometimes the actions of others make it bad for everyone, but you can't act as if concerns of Americans are somehow trivial given what some have endured.

 

I don't think you understand how human interactions work. If someone is a dick then their request should not be fulfilled irregardless of how much merit it has. If he felt he was in danger than there were more intelligent ways to handle the conflict... what transpired in the video is the stupidest thing he could have done.

 

You could try looking at it from the other perspective too, since you like to harp on about that so much... why shouldn't his photo be considered more important than some pseudo-vigilante getting his panties in a twist? Why shouldn't he continue to enjoy his hobby despite what some a**hole thinks?

 

I agree with this. It's readily apparent that he hates railfans and it's never been more apparent than now, with his clamoring for us to give up our hobby.

 

 

 

Also agreed. The average member of the public is too busy thinking that we are retarded for having non-mainstream hobbies, so their opinions are pretty much worthless in this scenario anyway.

I don't hate railfans.  I do however think it's foolish to risk conflict or even being arrested just to take photos.  I mean come on now, we're talking about trains! In short it's a hobby... Unless someone was paying me for it (and may I add paying a nice sum), I am not going through all of that for some photos.

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I don't hate railfans.  I do however think it's foolish to risk conflict or even being arrested just to take photos.  I mean come on now, we're talking about trains! In short it's a hobby... Unless someone was paying me for it (and may I add paying a nice sum), I am not going through all of that for some photos.

Then that's your choice, which is respectable. Perhaps then it would be more prudent not to judge others based on your own standards. If you choose to stand down in the face of ignorant oppression, then by all means, more power to you. I will choose to stand and fight for my rights, rather than lie down and be kicked around like a stray dog.

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Then that's your choice, which is respectable. Perhaps then it would be more prudent not to judge others based on your own standards. If you choose to stand down in the face of ignorant oppression, then by all means, more power to you. I will choose to stand and fight for my rights, rather than lie down and be kicked around like a stray dog.

I'm not judging anyone... I've always said that you're free to take pictures as you please, but understand that there can be repercussions for those actions.

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And why shouldn't it be? It's not harming anyone; it's certainly not killing anyone.

And of course you tend to agree with Truckie's comment. As you both stated before, neither of you are railfans, so you'd never be able to see this sort of situation from a hobbyist's perspective.

 

See, this is the thing that you don't understand.  At face value it doesn't harm anyone.  Having a camera set up on a train platform causes obstructions to both people entering and exiting the train and for the train crew who are trying to safely load the train.  I don't know how many times I've seen individuals with tripods and cameras taking "innocent" pictures where it's a distraction to the crew of the train.  With that said, try to see the situation from an operational perspective.

 

I know, it's a "public place" and you can do what every you want.  Try setting up a tent and having a barbeque on the platform and let me know where that gets you.  The reality is it's not a public place but it's public access for a specific purpose.

 

So what did this whole situation cause? 

 

1)  Discomfort with a passenger that got off the train who wasn't afraid to give his two cents to the offending photographer / rail fan. 

 

2) The rail fan whining about the situation because his little feelings were hurt. 

 

3)  The distraction to the train crew that first off there is the visual obstruction of the individual taking pictures/video and the discussion that ensues as a result of the rail fan not making the wisest of choices.                           

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I'm not judging anyone... I've always said that you're free to take pictures as you please, but understand that there can be repercussions for those actions.

That's all the more reason these people need to stand ready to defuse a challenge to their legal rights

 

"When Cops are Called, and You're The Perp" , Fred Fraley, Trains Magazine

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See, this is the thing that you don't understand.  At face value it doesn't harm anyone.  Having a camera set up on a train platform causes obstructions to both people entering and exiting the train and for the train crew who are trying to safely load the train.  I don't know how many times I've seen individuals with tripods and cameras taking "innocent" pictures where it's a distraction to the crew of the train.  With that said, try to see the situation from an operational perspective.

 

I know, it's a "public place" and you can do what every you want.  Try setting up a tent and having a barbeque on the platform and let me know where that gets you.  The reality is it's not a public place but it's public access for a specific purpose.

 

So what did this whole situation cause? 

 

1)  Discomfort with a passenger that got off the train who wasn't afraid to give his two cents to the offending photographer / rail fan. 

 

2) The rail fan whining about the situation because his little feelings were hurt. 

 

3)  The distraction to the train crew that first off there is the visual obstruction of the individual taking pictures/video and the discussion that ensues as a result of the rail fan not making the wisest of choices.                           

Aside from what you've mentioned, isn't that (MTA) property?

 

Also, what is the (MTA) 's policy on filming/taking photos on the LIRR/Metro-North platforms?

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Aside from what you've mentioned, isn't that (MTA) property?

 

Also, what is the (MTA) 's policy on filming/taking photos on the LIRR/Metro-North platforms?

VG8, I've had a similar experience a while back while filming trains at Tarrytown. The cops will give you trouble if you are on (MTA) stations. But as I said before, if you are on public property, it's not a problem

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Aside from what you've mentioned, isn't that (MTA) property?

 

Also, what is the (MTA) 's policy on filming/taking photos on the LIRR/Metro-North platforms?

As far as I know according to the 1050.9, the same as taking them in the Subway, no tripods or flash unless with proper ID.

 

http://web.mta.info/nyct/rules/rules.htm

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As far as I know according to the 1050.9, the same as taking them in the Subway, no tripods or flash unless with proper ID.

 

http://web.mta.info/nyct/rules/rules.htm

This is an interesting rule though:

 

 

(A) No person may perform any act which interferes with or may tend to interfere with the provision of transit service, obstructs or may tend to obstruct the flow of traffic on facilities or conveyances, or interferes with or may tend to interfere with the safe and efficient operation of the facilities or conveyances of the Authority.

I didn't even know about the (MTA) rules. It's rather funny that they have so many of them.

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I don't hate railfans.  I do however think it's foolish to risk conflict or even being arrested just to take photos.  I mean come on now, we're talking about trains! In short it's a hobby... Unless someone was paying me for it (and may I add paying a nice sum), I am not going through all of that for some photos.

 

I get what you're saying, but the "risks" associated with railfanning are low. The risks you might face are more likely to be of the variety faced by the average passenger, too - i.e. some nut pushing you into the trackway, rather than being arrested for taking photos of trains. What happened with the City Hall loop is not the norm for fanning. I can probably count on two hands the amount of times I have been confronted for taking photos of transit in the last 6 years. The first time around a driver threatened to call the cops on me, but nothing ever came of it.

 

 

 

See, this is the thing that you don't understand.  At face value it doesn't harm anyone.  Having a camera set up on a train platform causes obstructions to both people entering and exiting the train and for the train crew who are trying to safely load the train.

 

This is only true if the photographer is using a tripod (which is forbidden anyway.) A non tripod equipped photographer takes up as much room as any other passenger standing on the platform.

 

And in any decently sized city, the train crew should be used to people taking photos. They're called tourists. In a city like New York and its surroundings, any transit employee that is thrown off by people taking photos must live under a rock.

 

 

 

I know, it's a "public place" and you can do what every you want.  Try setting up a tent and having a barbeque on the platform and let me know where that gets you.  The reality is it's not a public place but it's public access for a specific purpose.

 

 

A barbeque tent is far larger and more cumbersome than a person holding a camera, so I'm not really sure what you're getting at here.

 

 

1)  Discomfort with a passenger that got off the train who wasn't afraid to give his two cents to the offending photographer / rail fan.

 

 

Transit photographers will likely run into some people during the course of their enjoyment of the hobby that don't understand their reasoning for the hobby. Some may be curios, others may be uncomfortable because they can't fathom anyone enjoying a non-mainstream hobby and think that the only reason someone might have for taking photos of trains is to cause problems. Does that mean that railfans should give up their hobby for the comfort of these people?

 

 

2) The rail fan whining about the situation because his little feelings were hurt.

 

 

No offense, but with your usage of the word "little" you sound like a 5 year old taunting another 5 year old in the school playground.

 

 

3)  The distraction to the train crew that first off there is the visual obstruction of the individual taking pictures/video and the discussion that ensues as a result of the rail fan not making the wisest of choices.  

 

 

I recognize that transit employees may come into the picture in some conflicts, but in this one they did not, therefore this is irrelevant and does not contribute to the discussion.

 

I'll go even one step further and disagree with the notion that FanRailer was in the wrong in this situation, based on how he reacted, as well. As anyone who has been in a conflict will probably know, how the conflict transpires is largely decided by the tone of voice used by the person who started the conflict. If a guy comes up to you, profanity dripping from his lips and flinging insults at you, you are thrown off as someone has just ruined what has been up until this point a very enjoyable outing, and your gut reaction would be to retort with something snappy back then if they come up to you and casually ask "What's up?" In that case, the fact that the person isn't hostile about it means that the railfanner is given a relaxed atmosphere and is able to respond in a calm and collected manner. Not to mention that at point it wouldn't even be a confrontation anyway, just a conversion.

 

Personally, I think there are just some people who don't like enthusiasts but rather than tell you flat out that you are weird and that your hobby sucks and wish you would go away, they pull the security and privacy cards.

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Or been called on by cops for taking pictures or whatever

...or by transit employees or city officials that don't even know the rules, the law or our rights

.....or by a bunch of authority figures and self-righteous people who think they're above the law and neglects our rights.

Coney Island Bus Terminal.... nuff said....

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

In any regard, lmfao @ "I never knew people on Long Island were such dicks".

 

Shouldn't  have talked back though, guy might take that as a threat.

Yeah well like I said sometimes the actions of others make it bad for everyone, but you can't act as if concerns of Americans are somehow trivial given what some have endured.

 

I don't hate railfans.  I do however think it's foolish to risk conflict or even being arrested just to take photos.  I mean come on now, we're talking about trains! In short it's a hobby... Unless someone was paying me for it (and may I add paying a nice sum), I am not going through all of that for some photos.

Hiking or camping takes a lot of risk too. You want someone to pay you to hike?

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