Railfan Harassment at Northport Station on LIRR

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Again, you miss the point / misinterpret the point being conveyed (as you almost always do, but of course).

 

The point here is that sure, we understand that people may not be comfortable with something they feel is out of the ordinary, and sure, it is their right to question it out of genuine concern. The issue is with HOW this is carried out. I need to ask, did you not even read my conclusion points in my last post? If you didn't, which I strongly suspect, here they are again:

 

 

The Zimmerman example is NOT ridiculous, in fact, because you were SUPPOSED to look at it from a motive/sociological interaction standpoint; NOT a literal standpoint, which you clearly did. Maybe it's not clear because you don't want to see it, so here it is:

1) Zimmerman looked at the situation in front of him, and based on stereotypes, he reacted in a manner that he should not have. What he should have done was informed local law enforcement and simply kept his distance. If he had done that, then perhaps Martin would still have been alive.

 

2) The guy that I dealt with basically did the same thing: he saw a situation in front of him that he was uncomfortable with, and reacted in a manner that he should not have (took the situation into his personal hands, as did Zimmerman). What he should have done was (if he was genuinely concerned), not said anything to me, but instead, call local law enforcement and let them have a talk with me about what I was doing. If that had been the route the guy had taken, we would not be having this discussion.

 

I dont' know how much clearer I can make this. If you can't see the similarities after that, then you are simply short-sighted.

 

Also, I only pulled in the Zimmerman example because of the ridiculous notion you brought up earlier about this:

 

I will flat out say that you are WRONG. We as hobbyists are completely entitled to be frustrated with other Americans, now get this, when they react in a way that is inappropriate in proportion to the situation, which is what happened in this particular situation that is at the center of this thread. What do you not get about this point? Honestly, it is so simple to understand. Is it wrong for us to ask to be treated (or at least conversed to) in a manner that does not involve (right off the bat) profanity and dehumanization? Because that is all we are really asking for here.

 

Yes, we get that we need to respect other people when we are out enjoying our hobby, but let me ask you, should we really have to silently put up with people who go out of their way, like this guy did, to be complete dicks to us with what is really a minimal pretense?

 

Oh, also here's another thing you said:

I don't even know where to begin with this, but what? Your first sentence here is so contradictory, I can't even wrap my head around this logic. The fact that you've never been in a confrontation over photos or filming is exactly the reason why you would need to understand what it's like to be in one, because until you do, you are really in no position to make any points or say ANYTHING about how we should react when confronted in such a vulgar and unnecessary manner.

 

I will say for the umpteenth time that, yes, it is the right of others to feel concerned and question our motives, but that does not give them free leave to be jerks and assume that everyone taking pictures is a f**king terrorist.

Actually, that's precisely the problem.  Unless someone is physically harming you, people are allowed to freedom of speech, which you can't accept.

 

You're comparing what Zimmerman did, which was kill a kid to what this guy did to you, which was snap a photo of you and verbally assault you as being the same thing? Give me a break.  In your mind he overreacted and took the situation into his own hands like Zimmerman did, but I think there's a profound difference here.  How can you be certain that you filming him (albeit indirectly) had nothing to do with his "overreaction"?

 

As for how people feel and them being jerks, as long as no one is putting their hands on you, then the answer the yes, they can be jerks if they so please.  Nothing that the guy did to you can have him arrested. People are jerks every day, even with people who aren't rail fanning, so as I said, at the end of the day, you can't control how people feel or respond to your actions.  You will have to deal with it.  You're also free to respond how you want, as you obviously did, but understand that your reaction certainly won't help to change people's minds about rail fanners.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

If this does happen, then it is far rarer than it is to see someone giving a rail fanner a dirty look. People are used to the idea that tourists take photos, it's just unfathomable that you might take photos of things not everyone is interested in.

 

 

 

 

If people were suspicious of a group because of previous events, you can be sure that everyone would be suspicious everyone. People from all walks of life do good things and bad things. I maintain that it's because they can't wrap their heads around the concept that rail photographers have different interests than them.

 

 

 

 

What difference does it make if you are respectful or not? People are still going to form an initial opinion of you whether you are polite or not, and if they want to confront you, they will.

 

By the way, the insinuation that you are the only one who is polite when taking photos is insulting and absurd.

 

 

 

 

This is a completely ridiculous and unnecessary thing to do. When you're taking photos, whether touristy or rail-fann-y, there's the possibility that you will take a lot of photos. Do you expect these people to pour over what in some cases may be 200+ photos just to avoid having anyone in the photo that did not agree to it before hand? Not only is that a huge waste of time and will ruin what could otherwise be perfectly good photos, you're not entitled to privacy when out in public and if you don't want to appear in the background of anyone's photo ever then don't leave your house.

 

And before you get started with the rhetoric again, taking photos of an object and with people in the background is massively different than purposefully walking up to someone and taking their photo.

Of course they will but at the same time people appreciated the fact that I considered the fact that they DID exist and may not want to be in the photo.  That guy was clearly in the photo whether he wanted to be in it or not, as I said before, the lady before him clearly did not want to be in the photo, and you can see her trying to move away, but Rail Fan was clearly oblivious to her and kept filming anyway.  Why wouldn't he?  His photo of some train is far more important than another human being.  Talk about priorities.  They're just photos.  In my mind people are more important than photos.  That's the problem with our society.  It's supposed to people first, then things!  Not things first then people.  If we put people first instead of selfish needs first, we'd be a lot better off.  Maybe that's why people have a hard time understanding rail fanners because they don't put people first.  They put themselves first and things first before people.

[ttcsubwayfan]

Of course they will but at the same time people appreciated the fact that I considered the fact that they DID exist and may not want to be in the photo.  That guy was clearly in the photo whether he wanted to be in it or not, as I said before, the lady before him clearly did not want to be in the photo, and you can see her trying to move away, but Rail Fan was clearly oblivious to her and kept filming anyway.  Why wouldn't he?  His photo of some train is far more important than another human being.  Talk about priorities.  They're just photos.  In my mind people are more important than photos.  That's the problem with our society.  It's supposed to people first, then things!  Not things first then people.  If we put people first instead of selfish needs first, we'd be a lot better off.  Maybe that's why people have a hard time understanding rail fanners because they don't put people first.  They put themselves first and things first before people.

 

Oh please... just because some people get uptight about being in these videos doesn't mean railfans value things more than people. This is by and large the most idiotic thing I have heard someone say in this thread. No one should be expected to stop enjoying their hobby because of some uptight people.

 

The way you talk you'd think that someone had thrown themselves in front of the train and FanRailer was bitching about his video being ruined, which is clearly not what happened. Not fulfilling people's unreasonable requests does NOT equal valuing things more than people. This is NOT up for debate.

[Fan Railer]

Actually, that's precisely the problem.  Unless someone is physically harming you, people are allowed to freedom of speech, which you can't accept.

 

You're comparing what Zimmerman did, which was kill a kid to what this guy did to you, which was snap a photo of you and verbally assault you as being the same thing? Give me a break.  In your mind he overreacted and took the situation into his own hands like Zimmerman did, but I think there's a profound difference here.  How can you be certain that you filming him (albeit indirectly) had nothing to do with his "overreaction"?

 

As for how people feel and them being jerks, as long as no one is putting their hands on you, then the answer the yes, they can be jerks if they so please.  Nothing that the guy did to you can have him arrested. People are jerks every day, even with people who aren't rail fanning, so as I said, at the end of the day, you can't control how people feel or respond to your actions.  You will have to deal with it.  You're also free to respond how you want, as you obviously did, but understand that your reaction certainly won't help to change people's minds about rail fanners.

We can agree on that, I will say. As for the Zimmerman example, I acknowledge there is a difference in how both situations resolved, but again, I am not focusing on that point for the sake of this conversation. We've both made our points about that thoroughly now, so I'll just let the other readers decide from which perspective they want to view my use of that example from.

 

 

Of course they will but at the same time people appreciated the fact that I considered the fact that they DID exist and may not want to be in the photo.  That guy was clearly in the photo whether he wanted to be in it or not, as I said before, the lady before him clearly did not want to be in the photo, and you can see her trying to move away, but Rail Fan was clearly oblivious to her and kept filming anyway.  Why wouldn't he?  His photo of some train is far more important than another human being.  Talk about priorities.  They're just photos.  In my mind people are more important than photos.  That's the problem with our society.  It's supposed to people first, then things!  Not things first then people.  If we put people first instead of selfish needs first, we'd be a lot better off.  Maybe that's why people have a hard time understanding rail fanners because they don't put people first.  They put themselves first and things first before people.

TTC's response aside, You bring up a valid point about selfishness. Yes, railfans are selfish. It comes with the hobby. Are other people selfish too? Hell yea. We are all selfish, because that is simply our nature. You're just preaching to the choir now, especially considering you come across to be extremely selfish in other topics and threads outside of this one. You think people should change? Great, because we all think people should change one way or another. Is that going to happen? Unlikely, considering our human nature. Like you said, things will never be perfect, so all parties will just have to deal with the hand that they're dealt. I wish that people like this guy at Northport would change how they react, but they probably won't, so you say deal with it. You want railfans to actively turn their cameras away from people so as not to capture them in photos or videos (because boo hoo, they're uncomfortable being in a photo that they'll probably never see themselves), and I say that I do try most of the time, but when I can't, then there's nothing to be helped. So you deal with that.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Oh please... just because some people get uptight about being in these videos doesn't mean railfans value things more than people. This is by and large the most idiotic thing I have heard someone say in this thread. No one should be expected to stop enjoying their hobby because of some uptight people.

 

The way you talk you'd think that someone had thrown themselves in front of the train and FanRailer was bitching about his video being ruined, which is clearly not what happened. Not fulfilling people's unreasonable requests does NOT equal valuing things more than people. This is NOT up for debate.

Ha!  It's unreasonable that someone doesn't want to be in a photo?  What a joke.  No one's saying to give up your hobby.  What is being said is that you guys need to learn how to respect others while fanning and not assume that it's all about you and your needs.  If someone doesn't want to be in a photo, let them pass and get out of the way.  Is that really that unreasonable of a request?  Clearly to you it is and you're trying to act as if now people are saying that you can't enjoy your hobby. Funny how I enjoyed photography (and still do when I do it) all the while being considerate of others and their feelings.  It is possible. I know it's hard to fathom being considerate of others instead of your own selfish needs, but it's possible.

We can agree on that, I will say. As for the Zimmerman example, I acknowledge there is a difference in how both situations resolved, but again, I am not focusing on that point for the sake of this conversation. We've both made our points about that thoroughly now, so I'll just let the other readers decide from which perspective they want to view my use of that example from.

 

 

TTC's response aside, You bring up a valid point about selfishness. Yes, railfans are selfish. It comes with the hobby. Are other people selfish too? Hell yea. We are all selfish, because that is simply our nature. You're just preaching to the choir now, especially considering you come across to be extremely selfish in other topics and threads outside of this one. You think people should change? Great, because we all think people should change one way or another. Is that going to happen? Unlikely, considering our human nature. Like you said, things will never be perfect, so all parties will just have to deal with the hand that they're dealt. I wish that people like this guy at Northport would change how they react, but they probably won't, so you say deal with it. You want railfans to actively turn their cameras away from people so as not to capture them in photos or videos (because boo hoo, they're uncomfortable being in a photo that they'll probably never see themselves), and I say that I do try most of the time, but when I can't, then there's nothing to be helped. So you deal with that.

And maybe this is the big problem with you guys... Too much on the defensive too selfish... Maybe it's the approach to the situation...

[ttcsubwayfan]

Ha!  It's unreasonable that someone doesn't want to be in a photo?  What a joke. 

 

I've already said being in the background of the photo is DIFFERENT than purposefully taking a photo of someone. And I bet these people that get so righteously angry about railfanners probably don't think twice about all the security cameras they run into during the day. What a joke.

 

 

 

No one's saying to give up your hobby.  What is being said is that you guys need to learn how to respect others while fanning and not assume that it's all about you and your needs.  If someone doesn't want to be in a photo, let them pass and get out of the way.  Is that really that unreasonable of a request?  Clearly to you it is and you're trying to act as if now people are saying that you can't enjoy your hobby. Funny how I enjoyed photography (and still do when I do it) all the while being considerate of others and their feelings.  It is possible.

 

Just like with touristing, it is impossible to fan without getting at least one person in the background of your photo, unless you charter the bus and take it to a ghost town. As I said earlier in this thread that won't change until they make cameras that can filter out people completely. And as you can see from watching the video, FanRailer was standing at the edge of the platform, NOT getting in anyone's way or shoving the cameras in their face, they just happened to be passing by, as it happens with touristing. We can surmise therefore that your proposed solution to not getting anyone in the background of our shots is to give up the hobby, because that is the only way we can be 100% sure of such a thing happening.

 

 

 

I know it's hard to fathom being considerate of others instead of your own selfish needs, but it's possible.

 

Yeah, yeah, no one is able to look at anyone else's perspective but you... you can save us the song and dance, we've heard it before.

[Fan Railer]

And maybe this is the big problem with you guys... Too much on the defensive too selfish... Maybe it's the approach to the situation...

And perhaps it is, but remember, it isn't just us guys, if you insist on doing this on an "us vs them" basis, but it's "you guys," the general public as well; too much on the defensive; too selfish to understand.

 

Of course it's the approach to the situation. No one understands anyone else in this world anymore; there is no communication. So then what do you suggest? We hold a public education seminar on what railfanning is so that the public knows we're not terrorists? Why don't we hold a railfan education seminar to teach railfans how to be sensitive to the publics desires?

 

Those are wonderful ideas, but what about the logistics? Where would such a thing take place? Who would organize it? WHO WOULD PAY FOR SUCH A THING? (the last being the most major gripe in our money driven society).

 

We all want change dude, but because of the nature of things, it isn't likely that we'll ever see that change.

[Fan Railer]

I've already said being in the background of the photo is DIFFERENT than purposefully taking a photo of someone. And I bet these people that get so righteously angry about railfanners probably don't think twice about all the security cameras they run into during the day. What a joke.

LOL of course they don't. You've got to remember that they trust big brother.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I've already said being in the background of the photo is DIFFERENT than purposefully taking a photo of someone. And I bet these people that get so righteously angry about railfanners probably don't think twice about all the security cameras they run into during the day. What a joke.

 

 

 

 

Just like with touristing, it is impossible to fan without getting at least one person in the background of your photo, unless you charter the bus and take it to a ghost town. As I said earlier in this thread that won't change until they make cameras that can filter out people completely. And as you can see from watching the video, FanRailer was standing at the edge of the platform, NOT getting in anyone's way or shoving the cameras in their face, they just happened to be passing by, as it happens with touristing. We can surmise therefore that your proposed solution to not getting anyone in the background of our shots is to give up the hobby, because that is the only way we can be 100% sure of such a thing happening.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, yeah, no one is able to look at anyone else's perspective but you... you can save us the song and dance, we've heard it before.

Fan Railer gets it... You on the other hand... So bitter and angry... Is this what this hobby means to you? Smh

 

And perhaps it is, but remember, it isn't just us guys, if you insist on doing this on an "us vs them" basis, but it's "you guys" general public as well; too much on the defensive; too selfish to understand.

 

Of course it's the approach to the situation. No one understands anyone else in this world anymore; there is no communication. So then what do you suggest? We hold a public education seminar on what railfanning is so that the public knows we're not terrorists? Why don't we hold a railfan education seminar to teach railfans how to be sensitive to the publics desires?

 

Those are wonderful ideas, but what about the logistics? Where would such a thing take place? Who would organize it? WHO WOULD PAY FOR SUCH A THING? (the last being the most major gripe in our money driven society).

 

We all want change dude, but because of the nature of things, it isn't likely that we'll ever see that change.

A seminar?? LMAO... So unnecessary... You guys just need to loosen up and not take it so seriously.  I think part of the reason you didn't stop was because you so focused on shooting and concerned about the shot.  It wasn't until he risked your shot that you stopped.  That in my mind says a lot.

 

 

 

LOL of course they don't. You've got to remember that they trust big brother.

Nobody trusts anyone.  It's called being somewhat tolerant... Not exactly the same thing.  It's also impersonal with a camera because it's a machine filming you and not a person.  Very different situation.

[ttcsubwayfan]

Fan Railer gets it... You on the other hand... So bitter and angry... Is this what this hobby means to you? Smh

 

Well, there goes the last shred of sense from this discussion.

 

 

 

It wasn't until he risked your shot that you stopped.  That in my mind says a lot.

 

You might not have noticed but he continued filming for another 2 minutes afterwards. So no, this doesn't say anything at all.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Well, there goes the last shred of sense from this discussion.

 

 

 

 

You might not have noticed but he continued filming for another 2 minutes afterwards. So no, this doesn't say anything at all.

Yeah I didn't say stopped filming... In other words, until he even acknowledged the guy... Things first then people... Smh

[Fan Railer]

 

 

A seminar?? LMAO... So unnecessary... You guys just need to loosen up and not take it so seriously.  I think part of the reason you didn't stop was because you so focused on shooting and concerned about the shot.  It wasn't until he risked your shot that you stopped.  That in my mind says a lot.

Last I checked, I never "stopped," so perhaps you should clarify your point here. And if you're really laughing your ass off at my somewhat facetious suggestion of seminars, then perhaps you're attitude is part of our problem here as well. If we should loosen up and not take it so seriously, then perhaps the general public should do the same? But then again, you're being so vague now that I'm not even should what we should loosen up about. Is it people over-reacting to our hobby? If so, then I can turn your statement around and say that people should loosen up and try not to over-react to our hobby as well. 

 

Life is a two way street, buddy, as we've both made it plainly clear in the last 4 or so pages, yet you still type as though it is you guys (general public) against us (railfans), with railfans being the primary group to give way for the public. News flash; it doesn't work like that. You should try being a little more balanced with what you say more often. Perhaps it'd be easier for some of us to understand where you're coming from / take you seriously for a change.

 

 

 

Nobody trusts anyone.  It's called being somewhat tolerant... Not exactly the same thing.  It's also impersonal with a camera because it's a machine filming you and not a person.  Very different situation.

Correction; it's a somewhat different situation. Who isn't to say there isn't a person watching the camera's live feed and is ready to take action at a moments notice. Yes, that usually isn't the case, but you have no certainty to say in any situation what case it is or isn't. The only certainty is that the live person with the camera is someone you can react to, which is why most people do, whereas you'd look like an idiot screaming at a security camera.

 

 

 

Yeah I didn't say stopped filming... In other words, until he even acknowledged the guy... Things first then people... Smh

So again, you want me to acknowledge someone who just, [A] said something completely false (that what I was doing was illegal), and called me a "f**king terrorist." Just so you know, I don't believe people who come out of the hanger shooting, so to say, deserve to be acknowledged, until they prove otherwise, which this guy did by coming back up to me, which, I will say again that, he did not have to.

[ttcsubwayfan]

Yeah I didn't say stopped filming... In other words, until he even acknowledged the guy... Things first then people... Smh

 

Why acknowledge him? Usually if someone's a jerk it's a better idea to ignore them then stirring the pot.

 

The guy offered no courtesy to him, so he's not obligated to be courteous back. Things first then people is an assumption and a bullshit one at that

[Via Garibaldi 8]

 

Last I checked, I never "stopped," so perhaps you should clarify your point here. And if you're really laughing your ass off at my somewhat facetious suggestion of seminars, then perhaps you're attitude is part of our problem here as well. If we should loosen up and not take it so seriously, then perhaps the general public should do the same? But then again, you're being so vague now that I'm not even should what we should loosen up about. Is it people over-reacting to our hobby? If so, then I can turn your statement around and say that people should loosen up and try not to over-react to our hobby as well. 

 

Life is a two way street, buddy, as we've both made it plainly clear in the last 4 or so pages, yet you still type as though it is you guys (general public) against us (railfans), with railfans being the primary group to give way for the public. News flash; it doesn't work like that. You should try being a little more balanced with what you say more often. Perhaps it'd be easier for some of us to understand where you're coming from / take you seriously for a change.

 

Correction; it's a somewhat different situation. Who isn't to say there isn't a person watching the camera's live feed and is ready to take action at a moments notice. Yes, that usually isn't the case, but you have no certainty to say in any situation what case it is or isn't. The only certainty is that the live person with the camera is someone you can react to, which is why most people do, whereas you'd look like an idiot screaming at a security camera.

 

 

So again, you want me to acknowledge someone who just, [A] said something completely false (that what I was doing was illegal), and called me a "f**king terrorist." Just so you know, I don't believe people who come out of the hanger shooting, so to say, deserve to be acknowledged, until they prove otherwise, which this guy did by coming back up to me, which, I will say again that, he did not have to.

 

About the hobby in general... I mean I've seen some of you in action (I won't mention specific members) but they're literally on a mission, not to get somewhere either, but just to take photos! Unreal!!! I've been on the subway platform sometimes and have seen some of you and I just stand there and laugh to myself.  All of this for a "hobby"...

[ttcsubwayfan]

Sports fans take their hobby seriously too and no one complains about it around here. It's no one's business or right to dictate how dedicated anyone should be to their hobby, least of all some guy on the internet. Nothing wrong with riding transit specifically to take photos.

[Fan Railer]

 

 

Why acknowledge him? Usually if someone's a jerk it's a better idea to ignore them then stirring the pot.

 

The guy offered no courtesy to him, so he's not obligated to be courteous back. Things first then people is an assumption and a bullshit one at that

Perfect reitteration of my edited-in point.

 

So let me ask you, VG8, put yourself in our shoes; perhaps you aren't taking pictures of trains, but you're taking pictures of the new World Trade Center One tower. Someone comes up to you and tells you that you're doing something illegal and then calls you a f**king terrorist, saying that you're helping the islamists plan another 9/11 by taking pictures of the new tower. How would you react? Honestly, I think it would be good for us all to know your perspective in this hypothetical, but similar situation here.

 

 

 

About the hobby in general... I mean I've seen some of you in action (I won't mention specific members) but they're literally on a mission, not to get somewhere either, but just to take photos! Unreal!!! I've been on the subway platform sometimes and have seen some of you and I just stand there and laugh to myself.  All of this for a "hobby"...

If you think that the situation you just described is "unreal", then it is painfully obvious to the rest of us that you don't understand the entire idea of being a railfan, which should disqualify you from making any valuable contributions to what a railfan should or shouldn't do in the first place.

 

Oh, and let me tell you, I was on a mission to get clips of the LIRR diesels in action that day as well. Otherwise, why the hell would I go so deep into LI territory and risk the type of interaction that did eventually end up happening? Do you think I like dealing with a**holes? Of course I consider it a possibility every time I railfan, but if I always stood down and said it wasn't worth it to deal with them, I wouldn't be a railfan.

 

If you think about it, a lot of hobbies have similar premises, with people doing things for the sake of doing them. So for you to say "All this for a 'hobby'" is [A] somewhat insulting, shows a lack of understanding or will to understand on your part, which makes you ignorant in this sense, and [C] shows what little experience you have with people who are members of other, what you would call, extreme hobbies, such as cosplay. I'm taking a huge assumption that you know what cosplay is...

 

You have a lot to say about what I and others say, but perhaps you should think about what you have to say and how you should say it before you say it to begin with.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

 

 

Perfect reitteration of my edited-in point.

 

So let me ask you, VG8, put yourself in our shoes; perhaps you aren't taking pictures of trains, but you're taking pictures of the new World Trade Center One tower. Someone comes up to you and tells you that you're doing something illegal and then calls you a f**king terrorist, saying that you're helping the islamists plan another 9/11 by taking pictures of the new tower. How would you react? Honestly, I think it would be good for us all to know your perspective in this hypothetical, but similar situation here.

 

If you think that the situation you just described is "unreal", then it is painfully obvious to the rest of us that you don't understand the entire idea of being a railfan, which should disqualify you from making any valuable contributions to what a railfan should or shouldn't do in the first place.

 

If you think about it, a lot of hobbies have similar premises, with people doing things for the sake of doing them. So for you to say "All this for a 'hobby'" is [A] somewhat insulting, shows a lack of understanding or will to understand on your part, which makes you ignorant, and [C] shows what little experience you have with people who are members of other, what you would call, extreme hobbies, such as cosplay.

 

You have a lot to say about what I and others say, but perhaps you should think about what you have to say and how you should say it before you say it to begin with.

Actually you were filming, and doing so for quite a while, which is probably why the guy came back.  Taking a photo is much more different than filming.  You were so into it that you didn't even stop, which is something that someone with a more serious agenda would do, not someone with just a hobby.  It just shows how serious you were about the whole thing, and yes, I would be alarmed too as an ordinary citizen at someone who just sits there filming so intensely.

 

As for your other point, in my mind it is unreal if you're almost knocking people down just to get a photo, as this individual was almost guilty of doing on the subway platform I was on.  It's rather sad quite frankly.  I didn't have a problem with the person taking photos, but what I found frightening was their disregard for the safety of anyone else around them while doing so.  Almost reckless....

 

As for other comment, I haven't said anything insulting. I'm just speaking from something called reality...

 

 

Sports fans take their hobby seriously too and no one complains about it around here. It's no one's business or right to dictate how dedicated anyone should be to their hobby, least of all some guy on the internet. Nothing wrong with riding transit specifically to take photos.

Yeah I'm a sports fan too, and you know what? If I miss a game, there's something called "DVR".  I can watch it another time or DVR it. Same thing with photos... They'll always be another one you can take if you miss one.

[ttcsubwayfan]

Actually you were filming, and doing so for quite a while, which is probably why the guy came back.  Taking a photo is much more different than filming.  You were so into it that you didn't even stop, which is something that someone with a more serious agenda would do, not someone with just a hobby.  It just shows how serious you were about the whole thing, and yes, I would be alarmed too as an ordinary citizen at someone who just sits there filming so intensely.

 

That's just bullshit. From the distance the guy was at when he turned around I highly doubt he could see whether FanRailer was still filming, and so what? That he continued taping says nothing about the scenario - at that point I would say that the video had not yet been ruined - (not to mention, given that we never see him in the video, how can you judge whether or not he was being "intense" about it or not?) and now you're just fishing for reasons to shift the blame over towards FanRailer.

 

I love how you completely ignored his question about the tower photos.

 

As for other comment, I haven't said anything insulting. I'm just speaking from something called reality...

 

 

 

 

Yeah I'm a sports fan too, and you know what? If I miss a game, there's something called "DVR".  I can watch it another time or DVR it. Same thing with photos... They'll always be another one you can take if you miss one.

 

 

And that's all well and good, but if the opportunity exists to take a photo there and then, then I will take it, and not pass it up because there might be people in the background, especially if it's a unit that could be retired tomorrow. You know what happens if that unit is retired? There is no second opportunity to photograph it. Imagine that! Seems rather presumptuous to expect me to forego that historic opportunity just so they won't have a rail fan aiming a camera their way.

 

I'm talking about the people who scream at the TV when things go wrong (or if their team scores).

[Fan Railer]

Actually you were filming, and doing so for quite a while, which is probably why the guy came back.  Taking a photo is much more different than filming.  You were so into it that you didn't even stop, which is something that someone with a more serious agenda would do, not someone with just a hobby.  It just shows how serious you were about the whole thing, and yes, I would be alarmed too as an ordinary citizen at someone who just sits there filming so intensely.

 

As for your other point, in my mind it is unreal if you're almost knocking people down just to get a photo, as this individual was almost guilty of doing on the subway platform I was on.  It's rather sad quite frankly.  I didn't have a problem with the person taking photos, but what I found frightening was their disregard for the safety of anyone else around them while doing so.  Almost reckless....

 

As for other comment, I haven't said anything insulting. I'm just speaking from something called reality...

Lol, what? Your post isn't even a response to the points I made in my post. You just keep throwing assumptions around about what you thought I was doing based on what you saw from the video, despite the fact that I've clarified over the last few pages exactly what happened in context to the video. You also seem keen on avoiding my tough questions, so I really do have to wonder whether or not you simply want to avoid saying anything self-incriminating (which leads me to believe you would not have reacted so differently from me when placed in a similar situation), or if you're just running your mouth for the sake of running your mouth. It could be both; who knows. So why don't you man up? This is the situation I presented, and like before, I think we would appreciate a response to it:

 

 

So let me ask you, VG8, put yourself in our shoes; perhaps you aren't taking pictures of trains, but you're taking pictures of the new World Trade Center One tower. Someone comes up to you and tells you that you're doing something illegal and then calls you a f**king terrorist, saying that you're helping the islamists plan another 9/11 by taking pictures of the new tower. How would you react? Honestly, I think it would be good for us all to know your perspective in this hypothetical, but similar situation here.

 

Also, as I learned from my mother, you can say anything you want with the intention of not being insulting, but your intentions mean nothing if the person / party on the receiving end finds what you say to be insulting. This is why a lot of politicians get in trouble for the things they say (refer to Todd Akin and that rape comment saga).

 

You don't see how your statement may be misconstrued as insulting? Let me break it down for you:

Here is your statement, again:

 

 

I've been on the subway platform sometimes and have seen some of you and I just stand there and laugh to myself.  All of this for a "hobby"...

1) You laugh to yourself at times when you see railfans doing what they do. What if I stood there and laughed at you for something you do that you consider to be normal? I'm pretty sure you'd be insulted.

 

2) I wonder if you realize that putting quotations around the word "hobby" in the context that you did it in conveys your supposed intention of demeaning it. It's like you're saying that what railfans do is so stupid and assinine, it isn't even at a level that it deserves to be called a hobby. That's what you convey when you put quotations around the word in the context that you did so.

 

So again, you should really think about what you say and how you say it before you say it. You'll come across as someone that others can take more seriously and respect a lot more than you do now. But of course, if you don't care about that, then I'm just wasting my breath, but out of benefit of the doubt, I thought you should know.

[Truckie]

To the OP:

 

Just out of curiosity, how come you haven't offered any supporting comments in the the other railroad message board you posted this on?  The one where there more than 10 replies and not one was in you favor.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

To the OP:

 

Just out of curiosity, how come you haven't offered any supporting comments in the the other railroad message board you posted this on?  The one where there more than 10 replies and not one was in you favor.

lol... Good question... Makes you wonder huh...

 

Lol, what? Your post isn't even a response to the points I made in my post. You just keep throwing assumptions around about what you thought I was doing based on what you saw from the video, despite the fact that I've clarified over the last few pages exactly what happened in context to the video. You also seem keen on avoiding my tough questions, so I really do have to wonder whether or not you simply want to avoid saying anything self-incriminating (which leads me to believe you would not have reacted so differently from me when placed in a similar situation), or if you're just running your mouth for the sake of running your mouth. It could be both; who knows. So why don't you man up? This is the situation I presented, and like before, I think we would appreciate a response to it:

 

Also, as I learned from my mother, you can say anything you want with the intention of not being insulting, but your intentions mean nothing if the person / party on the receiving end finds what you say to be insulting. This is why a lot of politicians get in trouble for the things they say (refer to Todd Akin and that rape comment saga).

 

You don't see how your statement may be misconstrued as insulting? Let me break it down for you:

Here is your statement, again:

1) You laugh to yourself at times when you see railfans doing what they do. What if I stood there and laughed at you for something you do that you consider to be normal? I'm pretty sure you'd be insulted.

 

2) I wonder if you realize that putting quotations around the word "hobby" in the context that you did it in conveys your supposed intention of demeaning it. It's like you're saying that what railfans do is so stupid and assinine, it isn't even at a level that it deserves to be called a hobby. That's what you convey when you put quotations around the word in the context that you did so.

 

So again, you should really think about what you say and how you say it before you say it. You'll come across as someone that others can take more seriously and respect a lot more than you do now. But of course, if you don't care about that, then I'm just wasting my breath, but out of benefit of the doubt, I thought you should know.

1) You conveniently left out the part about how I noted that the person taking photos almost knocked down innocent commuters while doing so.  That's why I laughed to myself, not because he was taking photos.  Don't try to twist my words.  It isn't the hobby that's the issue.  It's some of the people that take it up that lack self-control that's the problem.  There is nothing wrong with taking photos on a platform, but if someone is so obsessed with getting a picture of a subway train that they risk injuring someone else, I'd say there's something terribly wrong with that.  You need to understand the difference between the two, and you're conveniently trying to overlook that point.

 

2) I put "hobby" in quotes not because I don't respect it but because a hobby is supposed to be something that is done leisurely and for enjoyment/entertainment purposes.  Some people literally make it their "jobs" and take it to a completely different level....

 

As for your question about taking a picture of the WTC... Quite frankly I've never given it any thought, hence why I didn't answer.  As a New Yorker, there are some things that I don't feel tempted to take a photo of because I can see the WTC every day at any time of the day.

[Fan Railer]

To the OP:

 

Just out of curiosity, how come you haven't offered any supporting comments in the the other railroad message board you posted this on?  The one where there more than 10 replies and not one was in you favor.

I have not, in fact gotten around to checking that board, as I have been more involved here. But no, it does not surprise me that not a single one of those replies were in my favor, judging by the type of people who frequent that specific forum. I will probably head back over to that board later tonight or tomorrow, depending on how up-to-the-task I feel.

[Fan Railer]

lol... Good question... Makes you wonder huh...

 

1) You conveniently left out the part about how I noted that the person taking photos almost knocked down innocent commuters while doing so.  That's why I laughed to myself, not because he was taking photos.  Don't try to twist my words.  It isn't the hobby that's the issue.  It's some of the people that take it up that lack self-control that's the problem.  There is nothing wrong with taking photos on a platform, but if someone is so obsessed with getting a picture of a subway train that they risk injuring someone else, I'd say there's something terribly wrong with that.  You need to understand the difference between the two, and you're conveniently trying to overlook that point.

 

2) I put "hobby" in quotes not because I don't respect it but because a hobby is supposed to be something that is done leisurely and for enjoyment/entertainment purposes.  Some people literally make it their "jobs" and take it to a completely different level....

 

As for your question about taking a picture of the WTC... Quite frankly I've never given it any thought, hence why I didn't answer.  As a New Yorker, there are some things that I don't feel tempted to take a photo of because I can see the WTC every day at any time of the day.

My apologies for genuinely not seeing that line within one of your later posts. Had I seen it, I would have addressed that accordingly, but yes, I agree with you on that. There are members of this hobby who we all know are a little bit insane in that sense.

 

And as for my question, perhaps WTC is a bad landmark to use as an example, but the premise of the question still stands. What would you do if confronted with a similar situation where someone is over-reacting to something you're doing in public, calling you a terrorist and spewing profanity at you before you have even said anything?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

And as for my question, perhaps WTC is a bad landmark to use as an example, but the premise of the question still stands. What would you do if confronted with a similar situation where someone is over-reacting to something you're doing in public, calling you a terrorist and spewing profanity at you before you have even said anything?

Quite frankly I don't know what I would do, but at the same time like I said, you have to prepared to deal with consequences of your actions.  It's not as if you don't know that some people may become hostile with you for filming or taking photos on platforms and it's not as if their concerns are unwarranted, given previous events, not just with terrorists, but with transit fans in general...  Like those guys that have been arrested numerous times for stealing and driving buses.  Basically what I'm saying is some people won't take issue with it, and some people will, and it may not be fair, but to dismiss previous events as if these people are acting without knowledge of previous events seems rather naïve.

 

It's like saying well those guys stole those buses and drove them and I know it happened, but well if people decide to be suspicious with me, and have preconceived notions of me, well, they shouldn't.  The fact of the matter is we all have them, whether right or wrong, but they exist, and preconceived notions are created based on previous experiences, and you cannot ignore that nor control that. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but at the end of the day it all comes with the territory. 

[Fan Railer]

Yes. We can agree whole heartedly on that.