MCI D4500CT Delivery Thread (CNG, Diesel & Hybrid-Electric)

[JAzumah]

I saw two "test buses" heading east on I-80 around mile marker 234 last night in PA. I could not get a great look, but they looked at lot like NJT buses being delivered.

[JLiu15]

21146 delivered (source: FB post)

[553 Bridgeton]

On 4/7/2021 at 8:30 PM, JLiu15 said:

21146 delivered (source: FB post)

That bus was sitting in the sicklerville lot in south jersey. I saw up to 21146 there. 

[davemackey]

NJT will buy 118 buses for 2022 to complete this contract. Will be approved at Wednesday's board meeting.

[DCTransitFilms]

56 minutes ago, davemackey said:

NJT will buy 118 buses for 2022 to complete this contract. Will be approved at Wednesday's board meeting.

Are the 2022 order going to kill off the remaining 2000-03 MCIs and the 2006 & 2008 MCIs?

[Gmansports]

1 hour ago, davemackey said:

NJT will buy 118 buses for 2022 to complete this contract. Will be approved at Wednesday's board 

We shall see what specs NJT management decides by end of this year for the “anticipated advertising of 172 buses”  These will be for direct replacement for Oradell bus depot allotments.  Could be 45 or 40 foot cruiser specs. We shall see if anything is said at the April 14th board meeting. 

Edited April 9, 2021 by Gmansports

[Gmansports]

1 hour ago, DCTransitFilms said:

Are the 2022 order going to kill off the remaining 2000-03 MCIs and the 2006 & 2008 MCIs?

118 plus pending 172 end of year “advertising of buses” , than yes it completes the entire cruiser replacement  fleet years 2000-2008 

[Gmansports]

6 hours ago, Gmansports said:

We shall see what specs NJT management decides by end of this year for the “anticipated advertising of 172 buses”  These will be for direct replacement for Oradell bus depot allotments.  Could be 45 or 40 foot cruiser specs. We shall see if anything is said at the April 14th board meeting. 

The current original allotments for Oradell Bus garage is 209 40 footers. Currently Oradell bus depot is receiving left over 2001-2003 D4000 from other bus depots while concurrently retiring the worst of the worst D4000.

The change to request 118 buses 45 foot MCI will be NJT Paint only. I cant confirm where the final procurement will be. It can range from Fairview, Market  St,  and Oradell in perhaps in limited quantities due to garage limitations.  Management is exercising their "alternative procurement strategy", but I just don't know what that is at the moment since the published material is not made public. 

[Cait Sith]

38 minutes ago, Gmansports said:

The current original allotments for Oradell Bus garage is 209 40 footers. Currently Oradell bus depot is receiving left over 2001-2003 D4000 from other bus depots while concurrently retiring the worst of the worst D4000.

The change to request 118 buses 45 foot MCI will be NJT Paint only. I cant confirm where the final procurement will be. It can range from Fairview, Market  St,  and Oradell in perhaps in limited quantities due to garage limitations.  Management is exercising their "alternative procurement strategy", but I just don't know what that is at the moment since the published material is not made public. 

I can definitely see some of those going South. Washington Township still has 7500s in service IIRC. The ex-Saddle River 17000s were supposed to go South, but they have numerous issues due to deferred maintenance. 18118 & 18119 are the only ones from Saddle River that actually entered service.

Edited April 9, 2021 by Cait Sith

[davemackey]

Here's the info from the Board Agenda about the new cruiser bus purchase for 2022 model year. I find it amusing that NJT illustrates this document that emphasizes the use of 45 foot cruisers, with Bus 7501, which was a 40 foot bus.

https://d2g63oyneaimm8.cloudfront.net/sites/default/files/board/agenda/4_14_2021_FinalBoardAgenda-V3.pdf

[Gmansports]

1 hour ago, davemackey said:

Here's the info from the Board Agenda about the new cruiser bus purchase for 2022 model year. I find it amusing that NJT illustrates this document that emphasizes the use of 45 foot cruisers, with Bus 7501, which was a 40 foot bus.

https://d2g63oyneaimm8.cloudfront.net/sites/default/files/board/agenda/4_14_2021_FinalBoardAgenda-V3.pdf

Or maybe a point the 45 footers order are to replace the remaining 40 footers. NJT management seems to present their requests to the board in minimalist fashion. I find it astonishing not one of the board members ever asks details whenever bus management puts out orders like this.  

[davemackey]

21191 just arrived at Wayne Garage. It is their first bus of the 2021 order, both chronologically and numerically. They are expected to get 50 buses, from 21191-21240. Most of these coaches have already been built.

[davemackey]

1 hour ago, davemackey said:

21191 just arrived at Wayne Garage. It is their first bus of the 2021 order, both chronologically and numerically. They are expected to get 50 buses, from 21191-21240. Most of these coaches have already been built.

21191 is now headed to Sicklerville, along with 21148, 21169 and 21193. Most of these are tracking as unit numbers but the fleet numbers are confirmed from roof numbers captured on a 511nj.org traffic cam on Route 18. So those VINs are solid. 21148 = 16191, 21169 = 16212, 21191 = 16234, 21193 = 16236.

[JLiu15]

Now that the 118 buses for 2022 have been approved (up from the previously expected 33), does this mean there could be more cruisers from this order in NJT paint? Since the expectation was that everything above 21240 would be for private carriers, including the previously anticipated 33 for 2022.

Also I'm wondering if the 172 buses they're talking about for later in the year will be 2023 model D4500CT's from the current order, or if the current order ends in 2022 and the 172 buses are a different model (e.g. D45 CRT LE) as the current D4500CT order is supposed to be the last D4500CTs produced.

The additional NJT buses would probably be for Fairview/Oradell/Market st (maybe South Jersey as I've heard they're also in need of cruisers). However those garages could only handle 40' buses (I know Market st is getting renovated so it should be able to handle 45' buses then) and Ridgefield Park (Oradell's replacement) won't be completed anytime soon. It seems like all these new buses (both the 118 and the 172) will be 45', so I wonder where they'll put them if Oradell can't handle them.

[Gmansports]

16 minutes ago, JLiu15 said:

Now that the 118 buses for 2022 have been approved (up from the previously expected 33), does this mean there could be more cruisers from this order in NJT paint? Since the expectation was that everything above 21240 would be for private carriers, including the previously anticipated 33 for 2022.

Also I'm wondering if the 172 buses they're talking about for later in the year will be 2023 model D4500CT's from the current order, or if the current order ends in 2022 and the 172 buses are a different model (e.g. D45 CRT LE) as the current D4500CT order is supposed to be the last D4500CTs produced.

The additional NJT buses would probably be for Fairview/Oradell/Market st (maybe South Jersey as I've heard they're also in need of cruisers). However those garages could only handle 40' buses (I know Market st is getting renovated so it should be able to handle 45' buses then) and Ridgefield Park (Oradell's replacement) won't be completed anytime soon. It seems like all these new buses (both the 118 and the 172) will be 45', so I wonder where they'll put them if Oradell can't handle them.

172 will be a RFP spec for 40 foot cruisers. 
by time 2022 rolls around it may be the 2023 D40 CRT model year to go to garages that can handle only 40 footers like Oradell. The reason they did not disclose the specs for 172 is because it may change. But I say it will be a bid for 40 foot cruisers.  

The 118 cruisers will be interesting to see where these will go to what garages

Concurrently, the Ridgefield Park bus depot project remains in legal battle between NJT and village of Ridgefield Park. 
 

[Cait Sith]

1 hour ago, Gmansports said:

172 will be a RFP spec for 40 foot cruisers. 
by time 2022 rolls around it may be the 2023 D40 CRT model year to go to garages that can handle only 40 footers like Oradell. The reason they did not disclose the specs for 172 is because it may change. But I say it will be a bid for 40 foot cruisers.  

The 118 cruisers will be interesting to see where these will go to what garages

Concurrently, the Ridgefield Park bus depot project remains in legal battle between NJT and village of Ridgefield Park. 
 

Don't think so.

In their 10 year plan, they want to replace 40ft buses with more 45ft buses.

And Ridgefield Park lost the legal battle with NJT back in December. They got the go-ahead to build the garage.

Edited April 15, 2021 by Cait Sith

[JAzumah]

19 minutes ago, Cait Sith said:

Don't think so.

In their 10 year plan, they want to replace 40ft buses with more 45ft buses.

And Ridgefield Park lost the legal battle with NJT back in December. They got the go-ahead to build the garage.

I would not be surprised if NJT were offered (and accepted) a private carrier's garage to house additional 45' units. I don't see them ever ordering 40' cruisers again.

[Cait Sith]

2 hours ago, JAzumah said:

I would not be surprised if NJT were offered (and accepted) a private carrier's garage to house additional 45' units. I don't see them ever ordering 40' cruisers again.

Ever since they announced the replacement of some garages and the overhaul of others, they've been pretty adamant about getting more 45ft cruisers along with more articulated buses in their 10-year plan. Big Tree, Oradell, Fairview and Market Street are all slated to be replaced with newer, bigger facilities.

They also have plans to deploy 21 electric artics to one of the newer garages when the time comes.

What I'm curious about is, what routes will be shifted over to the new Ridgefield Park garage(outside of Oradell and practically all of Market Street's routes). The space around that garage is said to hold up to "500 45ft buses". If that is the case, the movements will be pretty significiant.

[553 Bridgeton]

7 hours ago, Cait Sith said:

Ever since they announced the replacement of some garages and the overhaul of others, they've been pretty adamant about getting more 45ft cruisers along with more articulated buses in their 10-year plan. Big Tree, Oradell, Fairview and Market Street are all slated to be replaced with newer, bigger facilities.

They also have plans to deploy 21 electric artics to one of the newer garages when the time comes.

What I'm curious about is, what routes will be shifted over to the new Ridgefield Park garage(outside of Oradell and practically all of Market Street's routes). The space around that garage is said to hold up to "500 45ft buses". If that is the case, the movements will be pretty significiant.

Ridgefield Park is getting all of Fairview, Oradell and only Market St MCI line; 160/163/164. The bridge lines is up in the air right now. Oradell accounts for 200+ buses alone, Fairview 112 buses, market st 150 buses if you add the nabi lines. 

Edited April 15, 2021 by 553 Bridgeton

[davemackey]

Today's moves:

21100, 21103, 21104 moved to CMF from Sicklerville

21157, 21180, 21197 all inspected and moved to Sicklerville

Today's escort bus: 21153

[Gmansports]

Referencing the bus fleet strategy 

https://d2g63oyneaimm8.cloudfront.net/sites/default/files/pdfs/njt_bus_fleet2014.pdf

The primary focus of this Bus Fleet Strategy is the upcoming replacement of the cruiser bus fleet (both 40-foot and 45-foot cruisers). Newly purchased cruisers should be 45-feet in length (57 seats) in all cases except where physical garage characteristics prevent these buses from being used. Currently, these physical limitations apply to the Fairview, Market Street, and Oradell Garages. [Note: a new analysis is underway to reevaluate these locations under current conditions to determine if 45-foot cruisers can, in fact, be assigned these garages. The results of this evaluation may change the final mix of 40 & 45-foot cruisers in the bus procurement but will not change the total number of cruisers to be purchased.
 

—————————————

 

the last of year 6 recently approved order of model year 2022 118  45ft cruisers is for garages (30) Fairview, (51)Market st, and (37) Oradell

the anticipated remaining 172 is for Oradell and the specs for this RFP has not been finalized yet.  TBD
 

anyone guess what the “alternate procurement” will be knowing these garages are at capacity?  

 

Edited April 17, 2021 by Gmansports

[Cait Sith]

3 hours ago, Gmansports said:

Referencing the bus fleet strategy 

https://d2g63oyneaimm8.cloudfront.net/sites/default/files/pdfs/njt_bus_fleet2014.pdf

The primary focus of this Bus Fleet Strategy is the upcoming replacement of the cruiser bus fleet (both 40-foot and 45-foot cruisers). Newly purchased cruisers should be 45-feet in length (57 seats) in all cases except where physical garage characteristics prevent these buses from being used. Currently, these physical limitations apply to the Fairview, Market Street, and Oradell Garages. [Note: a new analysis is underway to reevaluate these locations under current conditions to determine if 45-foot cruisers can, in fact, be assigned these garages. The results of this evaluation may change the final mix of 40 & 45-foot cruisers in the bus procurement but will not change the total number of cruisers to be purchased.
 

—————————————

 

the last of year 6 recently approved order of model year 2022 118  45ft cruisers is for garages (30) Fairview, (51)Market st, and (37) Oradell

the anticipated remaining 172 is for Oradell and the specs for this RFP has not been finalized yet.  TBD
 

anyone guess what the “alternate procurement” will be knowing these garages are at capacity?  

 

I don't know where you got those totals from with Fairview, Market Street and Oradell allegedly getting 45ft buses, but it's best not to speculate on that. South Jersey is also due for more buses, as Washington Township still has 40ft buses in service, and Egg Harbor is short. Wayne, Meadowlands and Howell are also said to be getting more buses as well.

They most likely won't send new 45ft buses to Oradell(I'll be very surprised if they do)...especially since Oradell is flood prone. Oradell not only has issues with storing high numbers of 45ft buses, but maneuvering them inside of the garage, as the garage itself is pretty tight. Whenever they get a rescue bus for service, they always stay outside.

NJT will likely drag out the RFP process, like they did with New Flyer and Proterra.

Edited April 17, 2021 by Cait Sith

[Gmansports]

5 hours ago, Cait Sith said:

I don't know where you got those totals from with Fairview, Market Street and Oradell allegedly getting 45ft buses, but it's best not to speculate on that. South Jersey is also due for more buses, as Washington Township still has 40ft buses in service, and Egg Harbor is short. Wayne, Meadowlands and Howell are also said to be getting more buses as well.

They most likely won't send new 45ft buses to Oradell(I'll be very surprised if they do)...especially since Oradell is flood prone. Oradell not only has issues with storing high numbers of 45ft buses, but maneuvering them inside of the garage, as the garage itself is pretty tight. Whenever they get a rescue bus for service, they always stay outside.

NJT will likely drag out the RFP process, like they did with New Flyer and Proterra.

Got this from the bus fleet strategy page 47 of 48. It is obvious during the board meeting on April 14th no one asked the question to who are receiving these buses. There is an alternate procurement strategy at play now but no one has officially said anything. All I know is the 290 (118+172) remaining cruisers completes the 1 to 1 cruiser replacement of grand total of 1394

[Tranzitfan81]

South Jersey is actually short buses across the board.  Washington Twp only has 1 40 foot bus remaining now as all the others have been retired.  In 2018, when the 18Ks arrived, there were 5.  They need at least 5 to comfortably operate.   Egg Harbor Twp is also short, they've lost 3 40 foot buses and with the approaching summer schedule, their routes will become busier.  They need at least 3-5 to comfortably operate.  Newton Avenue is only short 1 bus due to a traffic collision( 19137), I am assuming that vehicle is being repaired. There was a 40 foot bus sent down from Wayne for a while but I think that was retired. Newton Avenue doesn't need anymore MCIs right now.  I think to help Washington Twp, Newton Avenue should take some 406 trips.  Most of that line operates closer to Camden/Cherry Hill anyhow.  Newton Avenue always has MCIs to spare. 

Washington Twp is also short NABIs too, They borrow from Newton Avenue often to assist with the 400 and 403, plus their 18Ks have been operating on the 400, 403 and 459 as well at least once a day. 

What happened to those Saddle River 17Ks making the trip down? Also what is going on with DeCamps 17K buses?  Who will get those assuming DeCamp doesn't come back into business?

Edited April 17, 2021 by Tranzitfan81

[Cait Sith]

On 4/17/2021 at 1:26 PM, Tranzitfan81 said:

South Jersey is actually short buses across the board.  Washington Twp only has 1 40 foot bus remaining now as all the others have been retired.  In 2018, when the 18Ks arrived, there were 5.  They need at least 5 to comfortably operate.   Egg Harbor Twp is also short, they've lost 3 40 foot buses and with the approaching summer schedule, their routes will become busier.  They need at least 3-5 to comfortably operate.  Newton Avenue is only short 1 bus due to a traffic collision( 19137), I am assuming that vehicle is being repaired. There was a 40 foot bus sent down from Wayne for a while but I think that was retired. Newton Avenue doesn't need anymore MCIs right now.  I think to help Washington Twp, Newton Avenue should take some 406 trips.  Most of that line operates closer to Camden/Cherry Hill anyhow.  Newton Avenue always has MCIs to spare. 

Washington Twp is also short NABIs too, They borrow from Newton Avenue often to assist with the 400 and 403, plus their 18Ks have been operating on the 400, 403 and 459 as well at least once a day. 

What happened to those Saddle River 17Ks making the trip down? Also what is going on with DeCamps 17K buses?  Who will get those assuming DeCamp doesn't come back into business?

The 17000s from Saddle River apparently have a ton of issues. Saddle River voided NJT's warranty with MCIs by putting steel wheels instead of Alcoas on their buses. The only ones that made it into service are 18118 and 18119.
 

Decamp has been slowly coming back into business. Those buses will need a lot of work done as they've been sitting around for a long time.