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Union Tpke

R train tunnel could reopen ahead of schedule: MTA

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It's going to suck not having R46 on the (F) anymore but I'm glad they're at least on the (R). The (F) was a fun ride but the (R) is my childhood.

If the TA wasn't concerned about that issue they wouldn't have ran that R32 for testing... Twice.
 

What did I miss? 

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Oh no (F) is going back to being mainly r160 which I do like them and few r46 or barely, I was enjoying the good mixture of both, especially weekdays seeing r46 back to back.

And (R) back to using mainly r46.

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Oh no (F) is going back to being mainly r160 which I do like them and few r46 or barely, I was enjoying the good mixture of both, especially weekdays seeing r46 back to back.

And (R) back to using mainly r46.

 

I will have to say though personally I have no complaints about R46s on the R. Not that I have a preference; R160s are cool, my favorite in terms of cars on the B division. But the R46s did run very well to Court Street while they did. No major issues.

 

As of now in Brooklyn the R is still pretty much R160s but I'm sure they can make the swap easily in one weekend if the superintendents wanted to.

 

 

As for the R160s and weight per car, after some background research, yes the R46s are heavier cars then the R46s so I will have to stand corrected on this third point. But regardless the problems are still there on the aformentioned section of the 4th Avenue BMT line. Even to business owners and straphangers alike in Bay Ridge its clear cut.

 

* R46s are heavier cars then the R160s (major typo)

Edited by realizm

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Well some days after the fact the MTA page still havent been updated yet! The signs are up at many locations along the R so its obvious something will happen here with the reopening of the Montague St tubes. I guess I will have to assume that the capital construction committee must be holding the official announcement up as they must truely are racing against the clock to get the infrastructure work done.

 

As for the vibration tests I will have to reemphasize the fact that the problem is indeed the Bay Ridge BMT, not the entire 4th Avenue line in itself. The vibrations are easily noticed at street level along Bay Ridge Avenue and 77th Street as well as 86th Street. Bay Ridge Avenue being the worst in terms of unnecessary vibrations.

 

As for the R160s and weight per car, after some background research, yes the R46s are heavier cars then the R46s so I will have to stand corrected on this third point. But regardless the problems are still there on the aformentioned section of the 4th Avenue BMT line. Even to business owners and straphangers alike in Bay Ridge its clear cut.

 

The R46 is a slightly heavier car, yes, but remember there are 2 less cars per consist with the 75' cars. 

 

back-of-the-napkin math reckons that an R160 consist is about 60 to 70 tons heavier than an R46 consist (empty, mind you) 

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The R46 is a slightly heavier car, yes, but remember there are 2 less cars per consist with the 75' cars.

 

back-of-the-napkin math reckons that an R160 consist is about 60 to 70 tons heavier than an R46 consist (empty, mind you)

Looking at the datasheets of both cars from nycsubway.org...

 

One R160 car is 85,200 lbs

One R46 car is 88,955 lbs (A car) and 85,270 lbs (B car)

 

Therefore...

 

One 10 car train of R160s weighs in at 852,000 lbs (426 tons)

One 8 car set of R46s (4 A cars and 4 B cars) weighs 696,900 lbs (348.45 tons)

 

A set of R160s is about 77.55 tons heavier than a ser of R46s

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I'll just take apart one comment.....

 

The new work program really hasn't added much money to the Romeo on the weekends heck if any.

 

Where do you get this stuff from?

 

He's actually saying that he doesn't want to see the (R) revert back to its previous schedule:

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20130403055607/http://www.mta.info/nyct/service/pdf/trcur.pdf

 

He just wants the (R) to keep its current 10 minute headways (Monday-Friday late evenings) and 12 minute headways (Saturday/Sunday late evenings) to equalize with those on the (B), (D), (N) and (Q).

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A train of r46s is 8 heavier cars on fewer wheels.

 

I went through this math the last time we had this discussion. The net weight per axle is higher, and therefor exerts more force on the rails.

Edited by Kamen Rider

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Hmmm...

 

1) R46 consist (8 cars) -  [A+B+B+A] + [A+B+B+A]

 

A Car: 91,000 LBS

B Car: 86,670 LBS

 

91,000  x 4 = 364,000 LBS

86,670  x 4 = 346,680 LBS

364,000 x 346,680 = 710, 680 LBS (8 car set total)

 

2) R160 consist (10 cars) -

 

85,200 LBS per car

85,200 x 10 = 852,000 LBS (10 car set total)

 

I'm assuming that the weight of each truck was worked out into the average car weight on the car datasheets itself. The R160s are heavier cars.

 

Which goes back to what I was trying to say with what layman knowledge of this that I have: The R160s causes more vibrations on the Bay Ridge BMT Line, because of its weight in a single consist compared to the R46 (10 car sets vs 8 car sets between fleet types, 75' cars and 60' cars). Therefore my next question is this from the R32 vibration tests leading up to the pending permanant service change: Where will the current cars on the R go? Will we see a swap? As far as I know I am still seeing plenty of R160s on the line @ 4th Avenue. I didnt railfan today just regular commuting to Manhattan but I only saw one R46 set on the Brooklyn end of the split.

Edited by realizm

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What about r160 that has 8 cars then an 8 car r46 is heavier right, or one single car of each then r46 is heavier just like r68.

Maybe they wont swap who knows.

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CON

- Evening Brooklyn headways may revert to 12 minutes, instead of the 10 minutes we have been enjoying.

- Late evening Saturday/Sunday headways may revert to 20 minutes, since "every other" R train may now go to Brooklyn after a certain time on Sat/Sun.

- Service becomes far more irregular, with massive bunching of trains and far longer waits.  The 30 minute wait at 59th St Brooklyn at 6pm for a rush-hour Bay Ridge train happened quite frequently, and then 4 or 5 R trains would come back to back.

- Weekend R trains will now take an extra 7 to 8 minutes to go from Bay Ridge to 71 Ave/Continental Ave, which will result in higher salary/overtime costs for the MTA.

 

If only there was a way to short-turn certain ®'s in Brooklyn. I guess you can always split some in half at Whitehall, to make bunching less frequent.

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I rather trains to bunch than to wait longtime

Either way glad that R train tunnel is reopening missed that one seat ride thru 3 boroughs tunnel also that means on weekend its not going over bridge anymore the only time to actually see (R) outside.

Plus I like both r46 and r160 don't know which one I like better also r68(even though its not on R) I'm just waiting for one seat ride.

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He's actually saying that he doesn't want to see the (R) revert back to its previous schedule:

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20130403055607/http://www.mta.info/nyct/service/pdf/trcur.pdf

 

He just wants the (R) to keep its current 10 minute headways (Monday-Friday late evenings) and 12 minute headways (Saturday/Sunday late evenings) to equalize with those on the (B), (D), (N) and (Q).

 

 

It was a Supplement due to the various Queens Blvd GOs...

 

Hes going to be disappointed then cause those GOs are going to be going on for Years...

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*Reposting from the other thread:

 

Governor Cuomo has made the official announcement: http://www.governor.ny.gov/press/091414-r-train-restoration

 

==========================================================================================

 

New York State Chief Information officer/Office for Technology

 

Andrew M. Cuomo - Governor

 

Governor Cuomo Announces Early Completion of Superstorm Sandy Recovery Work in Montague Subway Tunnel

 

Printer-friendly version

R Train Service between Brooklyn and Manhattan Restored Ahead of Schedule and Under Budget

Rebuilt Tunnel Will Better Withstand Future Storms

 

Albany, NY (September 14, 2014)

 

Governor Andrew M. Cuomo today joined Metropolitan Transportation Authority leaders and elected officials from New York City to mark the restoration of normal R subway service between Brooklyn and Manhattan. This announcement follows the successful rebuilding of the Montague Tube subway tunnel that was inundated with salt water during Superstorm Sandy. Regular R service will resume at 6 a.m. Monday.

 

The $250 million project was completed ahead of schedule and under budget, during an unprecedented full shutdown of the Montague Tube subway tunnel under the East River. An estimated 27 million gallons of water poured into a 4,000-foot stretch of the tunnel during Sandy, which corroded every element of subway infrastructure from electronic signal equipment to tunnel lighting to the steel rails themselves.

 

“Superstorm Sandy brought incredible destruction down on the New York City subway system – but today we’re taking another huge step forward to repair the damage and strengthen the system to withstand the next major storm,” Governor Cuomo said. “This tunnel is safer, stronger and more resilient than ever before, and everything on this section of the R train is new – new rails, new signals, new pumps and new power supplies. We’ve made it a top priority to reimagine our state to withstand the new reality of extreme weather, and today is another example of how that approach is making this a safer state for all.”

 

MTA Chairman and CEO Thomas F. Prendergast said, “New York’s transit network suffered more damage during Sandy than anyone at the MTA has ever seen in our lifetimes. The effort required to rebuild the Montague Tube was nothing short of heroic. It took more than a year of round-the-clock reconstruction in difficult conditions, but we have restored the R train with a smoother and more reliable ride in a tunnel built to handle future climate risks. We are grateful to the Federal Transit Administration for funding this project as well as to the workers whose efforts made it happen. And of course, I want to thank Governor Cuomo for his leadership in making the MTA and New York stronger, and our customers for their patience while we rebuilt this tunnel from the ground up.”

 

The R train ran in two sections during most of the work. One train section operated in Brooklyn, from 95 St in Bay Ridge to Court St in downtown Brooklyn. The other operated from Whitehall St in lower Manhattan to 71 Av in Forest Hills, Queens. On weekends, the R train operated in one section over the Manhattan Bridge but skipped six stops in lower Manhattan and Brooklyn.

 

The Montague Tube was shut down Aug. 3, 2013 to allow workers unfettered access to remove damaged equipment from the two tunnels and demolish concrete and terra cotta duct banks in both tubes that had collapsed. Construction crews had to enter the 4,000-foot section under the East River from entry points in Manhattan and Brooklyn, removing all debris and bringing in all equipment and tools through the tunnels themselves. Crews replaced 11,000 feet of track, 30,000 feet of concrete and terra cotta duct banks, 75,000 feet of power cable and 200,000 feet of communications cable.

 

Federal Transit Administration Acting Administrator Therese McMillan said, “I want to thank all the hard-working men and women of the New York MTA for their steadfast support as we aid in New York’s full recovery from one of the worst storm’s in the region’s history. The funds we awarded MTA after Superstorm Sandy have gone a long way to repair and rebuild their infrastructure. We are proud to be able to tell New Yorkers that today, we’re giving them back a vital piece of their system – and it’s stronger than before.”

 

MTA Fix & Fortify engineers designed the tunnel repairs with a variety of new strategies to limit the impact of any flooding from future storms, including:

 

A critical signal relay room was relocated from track level to a higher floor in the Whitehall St. station complex,

 

A circuit breaker room in the tunnel providing power to the tracks was sealed with heavy-duty waterproofing and a submarine-quality door,

 

Emergency lights were installed with battery backups,

 

New power and antenna cables were selected for their ability to withstand water inundation, and New pumping equipment with additional capacity was installed within the tunnel.

 

The successful reopening of the Montague Tube is the second accomplishment in recent weeks of the MTA’s Fix & Fortify program, which is rebuilding an infrastructure network that suffered billions of dollars’ worth of damage from Sandy while also making it more resilient against future storms. The Greenpoint Tube, which carries the G train under the Newtown Creek between Brooklyn and Queens, reopened after a first-ever five-week shutdown to recover from flood damage as well.

 

Nine MTA subway tunnels were flooded during Sandy, the South Ferry subway station was completely inundated, the A train tracks over Jamaica Bay in Queens were destroyed. Two vehicular tunnels under the East River were also flooded, the Long Island Rail Road’s Long Beach Branch suffered heavy flooding damage and long sections of Metro-North Railroad tracks were underwater as well.

###

 

=======================================================================================

 

The MTA homepage has been updated: http://www.mta.info/status/subway/NQR/23512279

 

Sandy Reroute[/size] [/size] Posted: 09/14/2014  6:08PM 

 

FF_Pos_16.png

r.png No service at City Hall, Cortlandt, Rector, Whitehall, Court Sts and Jay St-MetroTech Stations

Use 2.png3.png4.pnga.pngc.png service to/from nearby stations [/size]

Regular service through the Montague Tubes resumes at 11 PM Sunday, Sep 14. [/size]

 

==============================================================================================[/size]

 

We were initially correct: It starts in a matter of hours.

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It's interesting that the Sandy Fix & Fortify repairs seem to all be coming in on time and on budget (if not below budget) as opposed to most other MTA projects. I wonder if having the different departments work together, and having a complete shut down, made the difference.

 

If that's the case, I wonder if the MTA might start using the same plans for other big repairs to be more like London or other places that don't run 24/7 

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Emergency repairs and rebuilds always seem to run on time and budget. It was the same when the tunnels underneath the former Twin Towers were rebuilt with the same pace following September 11th. I think it's because the politicians are less willing to put up with delays and cost overruns on these types of projects. If only the same could be applied to Capital projects and normal station rehabs.

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