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realizm

Northern N.J. Leaders To Weigh Pros, Cons Of No. 7 Train Extension - CBS News

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I think the New Jersey thing won't happen since it is a seperate city, and unless Manhattan really is a huge business area, people may go to New Jersey to work instead of New York, making New York lose money.

You think NEW JERSEY is a big business area? Every other company has offices in Manhattan LMFAO.

 

Do you know that THOUSANDS of people from New Jersey and surrounding areas for work in Manhattan. Big business much.

Edited by DailyDose
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100% debatable. There is a very good case to be made that the project was functional and Christie simply wanted to selfishly buy things for the state rather than help the region. Whenever a state leader turns down federal funds that were handed to them, they usually have a separate motive.

 

Well, it was designed around the same time, designed similar to, and started around the same time as East Side Access, which has a completion date into the 2020s now and has ballooned in cost, so he wasn't exactly off.

 

Gateway is a better project since it also allows Amtrak to use the new tunnels and doesn't require "Macy's Basement."

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Well, it was designed around the same time, designed similar to, and started around the same time as East Side Access, which has a completion date into the 2020s now and has ballooned in cost, so he wasn't exactly off.

 

Gateway is a better project since it also allows Amtrak to use the new tunnels and doesn't require "Macy's Basement."

 

Good comment. But whats "Macy's Basement"?

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My assumption is the post office at 8th Avenue.

 

I see, so you mean some sort of structure to support the foundation under the post office as they construct the tunnels.

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Good comment. But whats "Macy's Basement"?

 

It was a derogatory name applied to the ARC station shell. It would've been located 130 ft underground, and the escalator ride from the station would've taken longer than transferring to a Penn Station train and taking that in.

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Derogatory name to describe its actual station shell? No wonder I never heard of it.

Edited by realizm

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Derogatory name to describe its actual station shell? No wonder I never heard of it.

 

It was mostly used by opponents of the project to refer to ARC itself.

 

To be honest, the criticism wasn't exactly off, and the way they were building it ignored any sort of possible connection to Grand Central, so I don't view the loss of ARC as 100% negative.

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Why is the (7) the line normally proposed to go to NJ, would not the (L) be a likelier candidate?

I felt the (L) would be better because it would allow NJ riders access to almost every subway line in the city (and likely have it so 6th Avenue express trains would stop at a new lower level station at 14th street that as I remember there are provisions for), plus that might spur getting ALL of the Eastern Division stations as I would do it extended to 670 feet with the idea of having 10 67-foot cars in a future subway car order designed for those lines in expanded form (and nine 67-foot car trains could also be used on lines where the 75-footers are currently used if those stations are not extended to 670 feet).   Then there is also the ability to get to fast-growing areas of Brooklyn on a one-seat ride as well.

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It was mostly used by opponents of the project to refer to ARC itself.

 

To be honest, the criticism wasn't exactly off, and the way they were building it ignored any sort of possible connection to Grand Central, so I don't view the loss of ARC as 100% negative.

Well we have to consider the ESA project. Also it was only recently that the City Of New York wants to go ahead with starting the provisions for LIRR trains at Grand Central.

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Well we have to consider the ESA project. Also it was only recently that the City Of New York wants to go ahead with starting the provisions for LIRR trains at Grand Central.

 

They were actually studied at around the same time; an alternative was studied that went to GCT but got thrown out.

 

The issue with extending the ARC that would've been built is the same as extending ESA south; they were planning to leave the TBMs immediately after the station instead of taking them out when construction was finished, which would've made extension impossible.

 

 

I felt the (L) would be better because it would allow NJ riders access to almost every subway line in the city (and likely have it so 6th Avenue express trains would stop at a new lower level station at 14th street that as I remember there are provisions for), plus that might spur getting ALL of the Eastern Division stations as I would do it extended to 670 feet with the idea of having 10 67-foot cars in a future subway car order designed for those lines in expanded form (and nine 67-foot car trains could also be used on lines where the 75-footers are currently used if those stations are not extended to 670 feet).   Then there is also the ability to get to fast-growing areas of Brooklyn on a one-seat ride as well.

 

 

The (7) would do the same, but the (7) has the additional advantage of actually being in a Manhattan business district, which the (L) is not. Long Island City is also more of a job hub than Williamsburg at this point in time.

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MTA and PATH can not be merges as PATH has FRA requirements because it shares the Right of way near Newark and Harrison. To make MTA, FRA compliment is a fools errand. Cutting PATH from Harrison, Newark, and Newark Airport(to be built soon), is stupid. 

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That extension will never happen. Once the 7 crosses state lines it becomes a railroad and will fall under FRA regulations which means all T/O's will have to be reclassified as engineers, retrained under FRA requirements and become a whole separated entity. That line will no longer be considered a subway. It would just be a waste.

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"While the PATH did once share trackage with the Pennsylvania Railroad, this joint running and all interlocking connections to the former rail lines have been cut, except for one diamond crossing on a siding near the Hudson tower. Due to its isolation from the national rail network, PATH could potentially end its status as a railroad. " -From Wikipedia

 

I do agree that it definitely won't happen (at least for a VERY long time), I do believe it is at least POSSIBLE to extend the (7), if that diamond crossing was removed. The (3)(D) and (L) trains have connections to the national rail network too, but they're not considered railroads. I don't think one switch determines whether it's a railroad or not.

 

Then again I'm not an expert and I'm just making an inference. :P

Edited by TrainFanInfinity
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Derogatory name to describe its actual station shell? No wonder I never heard of it.

The ARC station would have been directly below Macy's and away from the rest of Penn. It probably would have been better to term it Herald Square Station. It would have been a stub station, with no storage capacity. Gateway expands the existing station, allows Amtrak to also use the extra tunnel space and does not dump people off several blocks away. 

 

I felt the (L) would be better because it would allow NJ riders access to almost every subway line in the city (and likely have it so 6th Avenue express trains would stop at a new lower level station at 14th street that as I remember there are provisions for), plus that might spur getting ALL of the Eastern Division stations as I would do it extended to 670 feet with the idea of having 10 67-foot cars in a future subway car order designed for those lines in expanded form (and nine 67-foot car trains could also be used on lines where the 75-footers are currently used if those stations are not extended to 670 feet).   Then there is also the ability to get to fast-growing areas of Brooklyn on a one-seat ride as well.

You can't have a 670 foot train. I already told you the union contract would require all trains to carry a second conductor. That is reason enough for the MTA to not go through with this. 

 

That extension will never happen. Once the 7 crosses state lines it becomes a railroad and will fall under FRA regulations which means all T/O's will have to be reclassified as engineers, retrained under FRA requirements and become a whole separated entity. That line will no longer be considered a subway. It would just be a waste.

Crossing state lines does not make it a railroad. PATCO is not a railroad. St. Louis Metrolink is not a railroad. If Portland's Max network is extended to Vancouver, Washington, it would not become a railroad. That's not how the rules work. 

 

Nor does a time share agreement work like that. I don't think River Line personal are Engineers. 

 

"While the PATH did once share trackage with the Pennsylvania Railroad, this joint running and all interlocking connections to the former rail lines have been cut, except for one diamond crossing on a siding near the Hudson tower. Due to its isolation from the national rail network, PATH could potentially end its status as a railroad. " -From Wikipedia

 

I do agree that it definitely won't happen (at least for a VERY long time), I do believe it is at least POSSIBLE to extend the (7), if that diamond crossing was removed. The (3)(D) and (L) trains have connections to the national rail network too, but they're not considered railroads. I don't think one switch determines whether it's a railroad or not.

 

Then again I'm not an expert and I'm just making an inference. :P

The issue is whether a revenue generating service can operate on those tracks. Railroad trains using the connections you noted are not going and operating over the subway, In this case the MTA is a customer receiving a delivery. No different than if the train was spotting box cars next to a warehouse. And in this case, the subway sends it's own equipment to meet the railroad train and take over.

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Thanks for reminding me on the conductor:

The 670-foot stations would be WAY out in the future.  We'd likely not see 670-foot trains until 10-20 years from now anyway and current rules might be changed by then.  With that, I would still go with 67-foot cars because as it is, eight such cars would fit most of the Eastern Division stations (a tight fit at some) and if allowed you can do nine-car trains that are 603' (a tight fit of all doors at stations that are 600' obviously).

Main thing is the (L) to me would be a better fit especially with 14th Street becoming a bigger player (you actually have some new office buildings not too far from the 14th Street station on the (L) for example) and being able to transfer to virtually every subway line in Manhattan (except the (7) and Nassau Street Line). 

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