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The Time for Reactivation of the Rockaway Beach Line is Now


BrooklynBus

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Yes, but I think NIMBYs living along the line would put up an even bigger fight over BRT on the Rockaway Branch than they would for rail. And building access ramps to get various bus routes on and off the r-o-w would be necessary and require sufficient space to build them.

 

That said, now is the time to seriously consider reactivating the line for transit, preferably subway.

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Yes, but I think NIMBYs living along the line would put up an even bigger fight over BRT on the Rockaway Branch than they would for rail. And building access ramps to get various bus routes on and off the r-o-w would be necessary and require sufficient space to build them.

 

That said, now is the time to seriously consider reactivating the line for transit, preferably subway.

Definitely, and as noted elsewhere, I would do it as a (W) from Whitehall Street-Rockaway Park at all times as part of wholesale changes that would also make the (W) the QB local on the Broadway line.

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I think the big picture here is GENTRIFICATION in Rego Park. They have those luxury apartments already going up over the mall and what's a better excuse to fill those up (and build more) than to have a useless copy of the High Line at their front door?

 

The pols and NIMBYs are gonna make the Queensway happen, sad cause they're only hurting themselves leaving themselves without better transit and bringing in gentrification, which completely changes the neighborhoods they call home and will lead to people and businesses getting forced out. Happens to neighborhood after neighborhood and everyone's still for it. That's what these pols want though, they know the Queensway will probably mean gentrification and they don't care about its effects. Will the NIMBYs be happy when some developer wants to turn their block along the Queensway into luxury rentals and they get sent packing?

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I think the big picture here is GENTRIFICATION in Rego Park. They have those luxury apartments already going up over the mall and what's a better excuse to fill those up (and build more) than to have a useless copy of the High Line at their front door?

 

The pols and NIMBYs are gonna make the Queensway happen, sad cause they're only hurting themselves leaving themselves without better transit and bringing in gentrification, which completely changes the neighborhoods they call home and will lead to people and businesses getting forced out. Happens to neighborhood after neighborhood and everyone's still for it. That's what these pols want though, they know the Queensway will probably mean gentrification and they don't care about its effects. Will the NIMBYs be happy when some developer wants to turn their block along the Queensway into luxury rentals and they get sent packing?

Excellent points.  Couple that with the fact some are really concerned that they will lose property they are illegally encroaching the ROW with and it could be a real problem.

 

 

Edited to bring over from the (N) and (R) Lines Switched thread:

 

The problem here would be that "South-R" trains turning at 57/7 would take away capacity from N and Q trains that currently turn there. And they would delay through-running N, Q and "North-R" trains. You can use Whitehall to turn some trains to/from Brooklyn, but because Whitehall would be the one and only Manhattan stop those trains make, so they won't get much ridership.

 

There already IS such a train that serves the Financial District and Aqueduct. It's called the A train! And if your beloved Rockaway Park W actually existed, the A would still get to Lower Manhattan faster. So why bother? And don't say Genting! And enough already with the complete nonsense that "some people" still think Lower Manhattan is New York's main financial hub!

 

Not that I don't agree with you because I do personally, the problem is can you convince people you might need to have back you in order to get the Rockaway Beach line re-activated with a line that DOES NOT go through lower Manhattan? 

 

The problem is the company in this case is based in Malaysia.  As one who deals with people from all over the world on a regular basis, even when I point out that much of Lower Manhattan is much more residential than it is business now, many still see the NYSE down there and still consider it "The Financial District" solely on that even though the NASDAQ is actually in midtown (and has been for 15 years!).  If you can convince them that any such Rockaway Beach line can go to midtown without going to Lower Manhattan as well and get them to back the line on such grounds, then that actually would be much better because then you can have a line even start at 2nd Avenue (a revived (V) train perhaps?) run to Rockaway Park in the same way I would have a new (W) train do so (though that would require assuming the (M) stays on QB the likelihood of the (M) and (R) both being extended to 179th Street, especially since such a line would likely go with the (F) after 47-50 and only go local at 36th Street).  It may come down to what they would want IF (and this would be a VERY BIG IF) they are to back this, however.

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I think the big picture here is GENTRIFICATION in Rego Park. They have those luxury apartments already going up over the mall and what's a better excuse to fill those up (and build more) than to have a useless copy of the High Line at their front door?

 

The pols and NIMBYs are gonna make the Queensway happen, sad cause they're only hurting themselves leaving themselves without better transit and bringing in gentrification, which completely changes the neighborhoods they call home and will lead to people and businesses getting forced out. Happens to neighborhood after neighborhood and everyone's still for it. That's what these pols want though, they know the Queensway will probably mean gentrification and they don't care about its effects. Will the NIMBYs be happy when some developer wants to turn their block along the Queensway into luxury rentals and they get sent packing?

 

If Queensway happens, I agree with you about the gentrification.

 

Part of me cannot understand how you can take a piece of infrastructure like this and turn it into recreation.

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Definitely, and as noted elsewhere, I would do it as a (W) from Whitehall Street-Rockaway Park at all times as part of wholesale changes that would also make the (W) the QB local on the Broadway line.

Definitely not, because there is no need to make any such wholesale changes. All that is needed would be an extension of the (M) or (R) down the Rockaway branch. I prefer the (M), because it's the shorter of the two lines, takes a more direct path through the center of Manhattan, and allows riders at 71st Ave to still have a choice of 8th Ave, 6th Ave and Broadway.

Not that I don't agree with you because I do personally, the problem is can you convince people you might need to have back you in order to get the Rockaway Beach line re-activated with a line that DOES NOT go through lower Manhattan?

The problem is the company in this case is based in Malaysia. As one who deals with people from all over the world on a regular basis, even when I point out that much of Lower Manhattan is much more residential than it is business now, many still see the NYSE down there and still consider it "The Financial District" solely on that even though the NASDAQ is actually in midtown (and has been for 15 years!). If you can convince them that any such Rockaway Beach line can go to midtown without going to Lower Manhattan as well and get them to back the line on such grounds, then that actually would be much better because then you can have a line even start at 2nd Avenue (a revived (V) train perhaps?) run to Rockaway Park in the same way I would have a new (W) train do so (though that would require assuming the (M) stays on QB the likelihood of the (M) and (R) both being extended to 179th Street, especially since such a line would likely go with the (F) after 47-50 and only go local at 36th Street). It may come down to what they would want IF (and this would be a VERY BIG IF) they are to back this, however.

What convincing? There is already a line that goes from Aqueduct to Lower Manhattan. It's called the (A) train! How many damn times do I have to remind you of the existence of the A train? And that it runs express in Brooklyn, so it doesn't make a bunch of local stops on the way to Broadway/Nassau? Genting knows about the A train for damn sure, because they advertise how close it is to Resorts World.

 

And I'm pretty damn sure I've already mentioned that the A would get from Aqueduct to Lower Manhattan much faster than your proposed W train would, because the A doesn't have to make a bunch of local stops in northern Queens and Midtown Manhattan before finally getting to Lower Manhattan.

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On a completely unrelated note, what are the chances of 

A) Sending the trains on the Rockaway Line [(H) probably] to 74 - Jackson Heights using the unused terminal

B) Sending it to Rego Park, then sending it underground and running along Junction Blvd to LaGuardia

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On a completely unrelated note, what are the chances of 

A) Sending the trains on the Rockaway Line [ (H) probably] to 74 - Jackson Heights using the unused terminal

B) Sending it to Rego Park, then sending it underground and running along Junction Blvd to LaGuardia

 

B) none.

 

A) would probably be more expensive than just linking it to the local tracks and calling it a day.

 

If the project were to ever happen, most likely a local train would be extended via the branch to Howard Beach.

 

The problem is the company in this case is based in Malaysia.  Because silly Malaysians obviously don't do any sort of critical thinking or research when investing billions of dollars, As one who deals with people from all over the world on a regular basis, even when I point out that much of Lower Manhattan is much more residential than it is business now, many still see the NYSE down there and still consider it "The Financial District" solely on that even though the NASDAQ is actually in midtown (and has been for 15 years!).  If you can convince them that any such Rockaway Beach line can go to midtown without going to Lower Manhattan as well and get them to back the line on such grounds, then that actually would be much better because then you can have a line even start at 2nd Avenue (a revived (V) train perhaps?) run to Rockaway Park in the same way I would have a new (W) train do so (though that would require assuming the (M) stays on QB the likelihood of the (M) and (R) both being extended to 179th Street, especially since such a line would likely go with the (F) after 47-50 and only go local at 36th Street).  It may come down to what they would want IF (and this would be a VERY BIG IF) they are to back this, however.

 

seriously, how racist can your thinking possibly get? They already declined to fund improvements to existing service.

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Why is everyone so hellbent on connecting it to the QBL mainline? You could save a few pennies by just stump ending it at Woodhaven (build the platform below the existing station or whatever) and calling it a day.

 

Any line running through there is already long enough as it is, why not make a new separate line?

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Why is everyone so hellbent on connecting it to the QBL mainline? You could save a few pennies by just stump ending it at Woodhaven (build the platform below the existing station or whatever) and calling it a day.

 

Any line running through there is already long enough as it is, why not make a new separate line?

 

It's cheaper to do a link than to build a new stub end, and I'm not convinced it's necessary.

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B) none.

 

A) would probably be more expensive than just linking it to the local tracks and calling it a day.

 

If the project were to ever happen, most likely a local train would be extended via the branch to Howard Beach.

 

seriously, how racist can your thinking possibly get? They already declined to fund improvements to existing service.

All I said was the parent company (Genting) was based in Malaysia, which the parent company actually is.  Doesn't mean that everyone who works at that company headquarters for instance is actually from Malaysia or any other particular place.  Nothing more than that.

 

What I said was true of people from MANY other parts of the world, not any one part in particular.  My experiences have shows people from MANY other countries still consider lower Manhattan to be "the financial district" because the New York Stock Exchange is there.  While THAT incarnation of lower Manhattan is MUCH smaller than it once was, unless the NYSE moves uptown, that will still be the perception of some no matter what. 

 

Again, I agree it would be better to make a Rockaway Beach line from 6th Avenue (as I would do it, a revived (V) train) going to Rockaway Park (or as some have suggested, Howard Beach), but the potential sticky point is the 6th Avenue line does not serve lower Manhattan.  That was and still is why I had it as a (W) train from Whitehall even if it is a longer trip.

 

It's like the old saying, perception sometimes trumps reality.

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You don't need a revived (V) train to serve the Rockaway branch. Just reroute the (M) down the branch. Terminate at Rockaway Park during rush hours and Howard Beach at other times. There is absolutely no need to overload the 6th Ave and QB local tracks with your V train.

 

It is not a "potential sticky point" that the 6th Ave line doesn't serve the Financial District, because that's what the (A) is for.

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Ok forget about what trains would serve the lines if this where to happen, wouldnt this re-activation be done of enough petitioners signed for at least to get the attention of city. I mean if enough people signed the petition it would show them that the NIMBY's are just a small amount compared to those that want public transportation in their neighborhood. 

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You don't need a revived (V) train to serve the Rockaway branch. Just reroute the (M) down the branch. Terminate at Rockaway Park during rush hours and Howard Beach at other times. There is absolutely no need to overload the 6th Ave and QB local tracks with your V train.

 

It is not a "potential sticky point" that the 6th Ave line doesn't serve the Financial District, because that's what the (A) is for.

 

Or just extend the Rockaway Park Shuttle along the Rockaway Beach ROW and end it at Queens Blvd.

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Woodhaven blvd was originally suppose to be a express/local stop. It still the tunnel path that would lead to the other side of woodhaven blvd. The idea of making a woodhaven blvd the last stop is a feasible idea. Lets just hope this gains alot of support and they actually start buildling this line.

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Woodhaven blvd was originally suppose to be a express/local stop. It still the tunnel path that would lead to the other side of woodhaven blvd. The idea of making a woodhaven blvd the last stop is a feasible idea. Lets just hope this gains alot of support and they actually start buildling this line.

Yeah, we build the line and connection first and worry where it will actually go to later.

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This is exactly what I've been saying

 

The other issue is that terminal capacity at Forest Hills is limited by the requirement to fumigate the trains, so if a local service is diverted to Howard Beach on the Rockaway Line, it increases capacity.

 

The distance between Howard Beach and Woodhaven is 5.5 miles. Considering we have had plans in the past to extend local lines from the QBL down either the LIE or Jewel Av (depending on who you talk to), this is not that significant of an extension.

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