Amtrak RFP for Acela Replacement

[HSRR 4]

Amtrak issued and RFP for the next gen Acela

 

http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/passenger/high-performance/amtrak-rfp-seeks-28-next-gen-hsr-trainsets.html

 

The bids haven't been made public by Amtrak, but some of the manufacturers have come forward as to whether they have bid. Amtrak wants off the shelf High speed train sets that can operate 220mph. The manufacturer must have active rolling stock to bid.

 

Bombardier has bowed out and will not be bidding for the contract

 

Bombardier spokeswoman Maryanne Roberts said Amtrak changed its technical specifications during the proposal stage.

"Unfortunately, the time remaining before the due date for the technical proposals was not sufficient for us to make the necessary adjustments to our proposal," she said in an e-mail.

I'm glad to see them go. It would have been nice to see what the Zefiro, Bombardier's first in house designed and built HSR, but after the debacle that was the Acela, let someone else (the Chinese) bite that bullet and watch and see how it turns out.

 

 

http://ca.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idCAKBN0JM20L20141208

 

Siemens which won a contract with Amtrak for ACS-64 electric locomotives and several state contracts for diesel loco is likely in the running.

 

 

Siemens AG declined to comment on whether it is bidding but a spokesman said it has "great interest" in the United States. It has a manufacturing facility in California.

I personally don't want Siemens to win. That would give Siemens an almost monopoly in the US rail market. I'm also wary of a single manufacturer, defects tend to crop up (they may not be immediately evident) and Amtrak could end up with another HHP-8/Acela debacle Siemens has no rolling stock with active tilt, which technically

 

 

 

Completely unexpected was Hyundai Rotem eagerness to bid.

 

A spokesperson for Hyundai Rotem said the Korean company had submitted a letter of intent to bid.

 

I think Rotem is the only manufacturer that can win the bid either way the FRA leans. Amtrak specifically wants off the shelf train to reduce cost. The FRA still hasn't cleared the EMU high speed trains to operate over 125 mph on shared track. If the FRA doesn't lift this restriction then Amtrak would be forced to go with a HSR with power cars like the current Acela. Rotem rolling stock (the KTX I & II) are very similar to the Acela. The KTX I was designed with Alstom, both have power cars. If The FRA does clear the way for over 125 mph emu operation then Rotem has the KTX III ready. Also it has active tilt on all of their rolling stock which is a necessity on the NEC.

 

 

 

The possible unknowns are Nippo and kawasaki, both have plants in the USA, Both have built HSTs. Alstom is really a wild card.

[BreeddekalbL 593]

and there is no "buy american" requirements, and do any of them build in the US?

[theaveragejoe 281]

and there is no "buy american" requirements, and do any of them build in the US?

Yes there some.

[HSRR 4]

and there is no "buy american" requirements, and do any of them build in the US?

There is a buy American requirement. That clause really means physically built in the USA (with the majority of parts originating from the USA too). Most of the Manufacturers have facilities in the USA.

 

Kawasaki has a plant in New York.

 

Nippon Sharyo has a plant in Illinois.

 

Hyundai Rotem has a Plant in Philadelphia.

 

Siemens has a plant in California.

 

The only one that I can think of that might bid and have to build a facility is Alstom (which is why Alstom didn't design AND build the original Acela)

 

Amtrak has applied for a waiver to buy between 1-3 train sets that are foreign built as demos (with the intent to push the FRA into relaxing the EMU restrictions)

 

As far as American Companies, there are Bombardier, GE and EMD. Only Bombardier build HST and they have bowed out. Why should Amtrak be restricted to buying a product from someone that doesn't even produce the product? That doesn't sound like it will end well for Amtrak if that were the case.

Edited December 16, 2014 by HSRR

[theaveragejoe 281]

There is a buy American requirement. That clause really means physically built in the USA (with the majority of parts originating from the USA too). Most of the Manufacturers have facilities in the USA.

 

Kawasaki has a plant in New York.

 

Nippon Sharyo has a plant in Illinois.

 

Hyundai Rotem has a Plant in Philadelphia.

 

Siemens has a plant in California.

 

The only one that I can think of that might bid and have to build a facility is Alstom (which is why Alstom didn't design AND build the original Acela)

 

Amtrak has applied for a waiver to buy between 1-3 train sets that are foreign built as demos (with the intent to push the FRA into relaxing the EMU restrictions)

 

As far as American Companies, there are Bombardier, GE and EMD. Only Bombardier build HST and they have bowed out. Why should Amtrak be restricted to buying a product from someone that doesn't even produce the product? That doesn't sound like it will end well for Amtrak if that were the case.

 

Alstom and Bombardier did a joint venture on the Acela to beat out others.

Alstom and Bombardier did a joint venture on the s.

Acela to beat out other

Also there is a waiver being made up for the demo sets to be made outside the USA.

Edited December 16, 2014 by theaveragejoe

[HSRR 4]

Alstom and Bombardier did a joint venture on the Acela to beat out others.

Also there is a waiver being made up for the demo sets to be made outside the USA.

 

Alstom does not have a rail building facility outside of France (For high Speed Trains). The buy American clause has been on the books for a long time. Alstom could not build the original Acela unless Alstom built a facility (Alstom does have a facility that builds signaling and electrical equipment in New York, but it's no were big enough or equipped to build trains). Alstom has always taken the attitude that it will not set up shop (rail production) anywhere else besides France. Many other countries have a similar clause to "buy American" (buy domestic) (think any country that has a manufacturer of trains) like Spain, (to protect Talgo), South Korea (to protect Hyundai), Japan (to protect Nippon, Hitachi, etc). Look at what Alstom has done in Foreign countries, they are always are the designers never the builders if that country has a specific buy domestic attitude.

[theaveragejoe 281]

Alstom does not have a rail building facility outside of France (For high Speed Trains). The buy American clause has been on the books for a long time. Alstom could not build the original Acela unless Alstom built a facility (Alstom does have a facility that builds signaling and electrical equipment in New York, but it's no were big enough or equipped to build trains). Alstom has always taken the attitude that it will not set up shop (rail production) anywhere else besides France. Many other countries have a similar clause to "buy American" (buy domestic) (think any country that has a manufacturer of trains) like Spain, (to protect Talgo), South Korea (to protect Hyundai), Japan (to protect Nippon, Hitachi, etc). Look at what Alstom has done in Foreign countries, they are always are the designers never the builders if that country has a specific buy domestic attitude.

 

They have had other rail rolling stock plants outside of France before. For a time they had a rebuild shop in Montreal and Calgary.

[Woodside7878 12]

Is GE a vital option, they build the powerful and fuel efficient turbine engines for the 747-8, 777, and the 787 and they have a plant in the US. So GE might build a high speed train but the propulsion has to produce the high speeds that Amtrak requires.

[Far Rock Depot 1,277]

@HSRR: Bombardier is Canadian

[HSRR 4]

They have had other rail rolling stock plants outside of France before. For a time they had a rebuild shop in Montreal and Calgary.

You are 100% correct. Keep in mind that the french gov't has its fingers really deep into alstom. I get a distinct impression that The French gov't wants to employ as small foreign work force as possible. Alstom started shuttering rail production facilities right after the first TGV was built.

@HSRR: Bombardier is Canadian

Yes Bombardier is Canadian, The "buy American" requirement really just refers to where the train is built, not where the corporation/company is

headquartered.

Is GE a vital option, they build the powerful and fuel efficient turbine engines for the 747-8, 777, and the 787 and they have a plant in the US. So GE might build a high speed train but the propulsion has to produce the high speeds that Amtrak requires.

Part of the RFP requirement is that the bidder has to have a functioning High speed Train that is in regular service today. GE doesn't produce a high speed train, it might be able to, but it doesn't have one built already and in service. On the rail side, GE locos are starting to show their age, but GE's diesel engines are work horses that don't break down.

 

GE is completely out of its depth when it comes to electric locomotives and emus at this point. GE hasn't produced an electric locomotive since the late '80s to very early 90s. That's 20 years, that would be a lot of ground to catch up to to competition.