CenSin Posted December 22, 2014 Share #26 Posted December 22, 2014 This gunman career criminal's savagery only hurts the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion VII 4 Life Posted December 22, 2014 Share #27 Posted December 22, 2014 ......What? So you're saying that we shouldn't snitch on a fanner who stole a rollsign, or who broke into the cab and played with the signs, or who rode the back of an R32 R? I'm snitching, regardless, because they shouldn't be doing that crap. Snitching's good. Maybe you're not fond of it because you've committed crap like this before. I certainly wouldn't be surprised. Here's what you're basically saying and why you're a hypocrite: "Some guy with these protestors attacking a member of law enforcement doesn't represent the whole bunch and shouldn't give them a bad name" "Some foamer jumping on the back of a train could give the whole bunch a bad name and needs to be ratted out" Makes alot of sense. Honestly I couldn't care less what the foamers do, it's not my place to be a vigilante and rat them out and if something's serious enough the police will get involved on their own (they do monitor this community). It's no better than some a$$hole calling 311/911 when they see their neighbor smoking weed. But I'm not trying to argue about that here right now, point is you're really not making sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GojiMet86 Posted December 22, 2014 Share #28 Posted December 22, 2014 This whole tension with law enforcement situation, starting with Eric Garner and Michael Brown, has just become so sad and deteriorated into a whole mess, instead of creating an opportunity for real discussions that lead to meaningful changes. It makes me wonder if, as a society, we have lost the ability to control our emotions and use them as fuel to have meaningful conversations rather than baseless hatred. I personally believe it's always been like that, but the big difference that separates today from 100 years ago has been the Internet. People are exposed exponentially far quicker than before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GojiMet86 Posted December 22, 2014 Share #29 Posted December 22, 2014 Here's what you're basically saying and why you're a hypocrite: "Some guy with these protestors attacking a member of law enforcement doesn't represent the whole bunch and shouldn't give them a bad name" "Some foamer jumping on the back of a train could give the whole bunch a bad name and needs to be ratted out" There's no hypocrisy. I'll put it this way. Some foamer jumping on the back of a train could give the whole bunch a bad name and needs to be ratted out Some foamer jumping on the back of the train doesn't represent the whole bunch and shouldn't give them a bad name. Some guy with these protestors attacking a member of law enforcement doesn't represent the whole bunch and shouldn't give them a bad name Some guy with these protesters attacking a member of law enforcement could give the whole bunch a bad name and needs to be ratted out. The actions of the individual do not represent the entire community. It's the same point. Not a single contradiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion VII 4 Life Posted December 22, 2014 Share #30 Posted December 22, 2014 There's no hypocrisy. I'll put it this way. Some foamer jumping on the back of a train could give the whole bunch a bad name and needs to be ratted out Some foamer jumping on the back of the train doesn't represent the whole bunch and shouldn't give them a bad name. Some guy with these protestors attacking a member of law enforcement doesn't represent the whole bunch and shouldn't give them a bad name Some guy with these protesters attacking a member of law enforcement could give the whole bunch a bad name and needs to be ratted out. The actions of the individual do not represent the entire community. It's the same point. Not a single contradiction. You really make no sense guy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacemak3r Posted December 22, 2014 Share #31 Posted December 22, 2014 Your logic sounds exactly the same as this "former" friend I had. Do you agree as well that some cops that act with brutality doesn't represent the cops that does their jobs professionally. If you don't agree to that, then shit, start calling FDNY instead of the NYPD to deal with petty crimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GojiMet86 Posted December 22, 2014 Share #32 Posted December 22, 2014 Your logic sounds exactly the same as this "former" friend I had. Do you agree as well that some cops that act with brutality doesn't represent the cops that does their jobs professionally. If you don't agree to that, then shit, start calling FDNY instead of the NYPD to deal with petty crimes. That's the point... You really make no sense guy... You know it makes sense. Like how your stupid actions against the Port don't represent the actions of our community as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreeddekalbL Posted December 22, 2014 Share #33 Posted December 22, 2014 things are really getting out of hand, now threats are going wild towards everyone, police and protesters including Al sharpton, i think his eminence needs to do what cardinal O'connor did after the diallo shooting and hold a reconcilation service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46Dover Posted December 22, 2014 Share #34 Posted December 22, 2014 Shooter's wife was in the military....whoa http://www.forharriet.com/2014/12/police-identify-woman-shot-by-man-who.html?m=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quill Depot Posted December 22, 2014 Author Share #35 Posted December 22, 2014 Now I think he just hates people who work to serve the country and it's people. Actually, I think he just hates people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quill Depot Posted December 22, 2014 Author Share #36 Posted December 22, 2014 Did he switch guns somewhere along the way. The one he posted on Instagram looks like an M1911, a 45. ACP handgun but the article says his girlfriend was shot with a 9mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yardlet6 Posted December 22, 2014 Share #37 Posted December 22, 2014 Before zeroing in on inner city thugs remember the guy in Pennsylvania who killed a State trooper at graduation. He was a survivalist and it took weeks to find him. Don't discount people of the Sovereign movement who target cops. They already killed some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted December 22, 2014 Share #38 Posted December 22, 2014 It's pretty sad what's happening. You have cop supporters who are blasting genuine protesters and who are trying to imply ALL the protesters were responsible for whatever blood was spilled (a very Stone Age mindset). Then you have cop haters who just want to get rid of the law and trying to paint all cops as violent racists (clearly not true). Can I get this $10 bucks via PayPal? Because it's been shown that his Instagram account that it was because of the Garner and Brown cases. Seriously man, especially when I just saw that one protest march where they demanded "DEAD COPS," I was incredibly appalled. A lot of cop supporters I know are only support the good cops that do their jobs professionally. A lot of cop haters I know are just targeting all cops because of the crooked cops. If we use this logic, because of the protestors chanting "DEAD COPS," do we target all the protestors? This whole tension with law enforcement situation, starting with Eric Garner and Michael Brown, has just become so sad and deteriorated into a whole mess, instead of creating an opportunity for real discussions that lead to meaningful changes. It makes me wonder if, as a society, we have lost the ability to control our emotions and use them as fuel to have meaningful conversations rather than baseless hatred. I think the real problem is that a lot of the people that are protesting want to see immediate changes in how cops deal with the public. The NYPD is under the impression that hiring more minorities will do the trick when it won't. It doesn't matter if the cop is White, Latino, Asian, Black, etc. What's important is how they interact with the public, but the thinking is that White cops (in particular) can't empathize with minority communities, when in reality, you have plenty of minority cops that can't either because they have a "US" versus "THEM" mentality. That is what the protesters out there want to change. The perception that the public is a threat and are animals (regardless of color, as plenty of whites have been harassed over the years by the NYPD as well). The NYPD on the other hand feels as if they have done enough by apologizing for the situation, but the question is how many times does someone have to die or be harassed before real changes are made about how cops interact with the public? Sure, you can re-train cops, but if they still have a "US" vs "THEM" mentality, that won't change much, and that's the real problem here. The NYPD sees all of the incidents over the years as "Isolated" "unfortunate" events, and they take NO blame whatsoever for any of those incidents. That's a little hard to believe. I'm saying all of this as someone who hasn't had issues with the NYPD and who is pro-cop. I'm just trying to see things from both sides of the fence. In the Eric Garner case, what I think what irked a lot of people wasn't the fact that they tried to subdue him because he was resisting arrest, but what happened after it was clear that the man needed medical assistance. You had people there of ALL colors that stood around and did NOTHING and watched him die because in their mind he was an "animal". That's the part that's really incredible to me. So yeah Garner created the situation, but once he was clearly no longer a threat, where does the human compassion come into play that a human being is on the ground dying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QM1to6Ave Posted December 22, 2014 Share #39 Posted December 22, 2014 In the Eric Garner case, what I think what irked a lot of people wasn't the fact that they tried to subdue him because he was resisting arrest, but what happened after it was clear that the man needed medical assistance. You had people there of ALL colors that stood around and did NOTHING and watched him die because in their mind he was an "animal". That's the part that's really incredible to me. So yeah Garner created the situation, but once he was clearly no longer a threat, where does the human compassion come into play that a human being is on the ground dying? The whole issue with the medical care still confuses me. After the incident initially happened, remember how the EMT's who treated Garner got into trouble? That whole issue seems to have gotten swept under the rug, and I've never understood what they did wrong. From the video, you can see that although Garner is saying "I can't breath" he is making shallow breaths. Someone asked the cops "why don't you help him??" and they replied that an ambulance was on its way. I'm not quite sure what else the cops could have done. You can't give CPR to a man who is breatihng, and they didn't have any other medical equipment on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted December 22, 2014 Share #40 Posted December 22, 2014 The whole issue with the medical care still confuses me. After the incident initially happened, remember how the EMT's who treated Garner got into trouble? That whole issue seems to have gotten swept under the rug, and I've never understood what they did wrong. From the video, you can see that although Garner is saying "I can't breath" he is making shallow breaths. Someone asked the cops "why don't you help him??" and they replied that an ambulance was on its way. I'm not quite sure what else the cops could have done. You can't give CPR to a man who is breatihng, and they didn't have any other medical equipment on them. The person asked why don't you help him because I believe that they understood he needed help then and there. The way I view it is, the cops saw a big black guy and thought that they needed to be rough with him in order to subdue him, used what happened to be excessive force since he apparently had problems breathing, and then when they did realize that there was a problem, responded by simply doing nothing. Did they think that they put him to sleep? I mean seriously. There's a black female worker in that video that just stands there looking as if nothing is happening when she should've been there trying to assist him, but the way I see it she felt that he was an animal that got what he had coming to him, so she was perfectly fine sitting there and doing nothing, and to be honest with you, had the cops been black, I don't think the situation would've been any different. It goes back to the whole "US" versus "them" concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreeddekalbL Posted December 23, 2014 Share #41 Posted December 23, 2014 There is a facebook event going around that they will #shutdown5thave #winterofresistance tommrrow at 5 pm on 59th/5th do these jagoffs have no respect for my city?! https://www.facebook.com/events/836939939662334/?ref=70 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QM1to6Ave Posted December 23, 2014 Share #42 Posted December 23, 2014 The person asked why don't you help him because I believe that they understood he needed help then and there. The way I view it is, the cops saw a big black guy and thought that they needed to be rough with him in order to subdue him, used what happened to be excessive force since he apparently had problems breathing, and then when they did realize that there was a problem, responded by simply doing nothing. Did they think that they put him to sleep? I mean seriously. There's a black female worker in that video that just stands there looking as if nothing is happening when she should've been there trying to assist him, but the way I see it she felt that he was an animal that got what he had coming to him, so she was perfectly fine sitting there and doing nothing, and to be honest with you, had the cops been black, I don't think the situation would've been any different. It goes back to the whole "US" versus "them" concept. I completely understand your point, but I'm still not sure what the cops could have done differently once he said "I can't breathe" after they got him on the ground. I'm not talking about whether the chokehold/headlock was a legal takedown maneuver. Once Garner was on the ground, I still really don't know what else the police could have done other than wait for EMS. In a similar sitaution, I was on the one night and a lady in my car had a seizure and fell on the ground. So, we made sure she was on her side and not choking. We pull into Roosevelt Ave and the C/R calls for an ambulance. A transit cop in the station comes over almost immediately, looks at the woman and sees she is making shallow breaths, and stands guard at the door. One of the passengers screams at him "why don't you do something????". The cop calmly replies "the ambulance is on its way, and she is breathing. There's nothing I can do for her." And he was right--cops are given basic EMT training, and don't carry much equipment to do any kinds of medical interventions. Cops see people in medical distress every day, but they know that they can't do very much other than protect the scene so that EMS can get to them as quickly as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted December 23, 2014 Share #43 Posted December 23, 2014 I completely understand your point, but I'm still not sure what the cops could have done differently once he said "I can't breathe" after they got him on the ground. I'm not talking about whether the chokehold/headlock was a legal takedown maneuver. Once Garner was on the ground, I still really don't know what else the police could have done other than wait for EMS. In a similar sitaution, I was on the one night and a lady in my car had a seizure and fell on the ground. So, we made sure she was on her side and not choking. We pull into Roosevelt Ave and the C/R calls for an ambulance. A transit cop in the station comes over almost immediately, looks at the woman and sees she is making shallow breaths, and stands guard at the door. One of the passengers screams at him "why don't you do something????". The cop calmly replies "the ambulance is on its way, and she is breathing. There's nothing I can do for her." And he was right--cops are given basic EMT training, and don't carry much equipment to do any kinds of medical interventions. Cops see people in medical distress every day, but they know that they can't do very much other than protect the scene so that EMS can get to them as quickly as possible. Given the fact that he clearly had breathing complications, it seems as if the cops could've done more than just secure the scene. All of those guys there not really in the vicinity of him to check on him to see if he has a pulse. They all started looking around walking away from him and leaving him there to die like he was an animal. Now I get your point... Maybe you don't intervene for fear of a lawsuit because had they tried to resuscitate the guy and they caused further harm, then they could've been on the hook for that, but trying to keep the guy's attention by simply talking to him to see if they could get a response was the least they could've done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV9218 Posted December 23, 2014 Share #44 Posted December 23, 2014 I wouldn't pin the murder on Blasio, but I certainly put blame to his actions as well. Why? What does an insane person from Baltimore shooting his girlfriend, himself, and two innocents have to do with the mayor who has called for only peaceful protest? What about him shooting his girlfriend before coming up to NY to do what he did? I don't think this guy had it together upstairs.... Right. He was nuts. He wasn't an activist, he was nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QM1to6Ave Posted December 24, 2014 Share #45 Posted December 24, 2014 Given the fact that he clearly had breathing complications, it seems as if the cops could've done more than just secure the scene. All of those guys there not really in the vicinity of him to check on him to see if he has a pulse. They all started looking around walking away from him and leaving him there to die like he was an animal. Now I get your point... Maybe you don't intervene for fear of a lawsuit because had they tried to resuscitate the guy and they caused further harm, then they could've been on the hook for that, but trying to keep the guy's attention by simply talking to him to see if they could get a response was the least they could've done. I'm willing to give them some leeway on that...I spoke to some doctors in the hospitals I deal with for my job, and they said the cops probably couldn't have done very much at that point, since the damage was done. They said he would have needed to have been anesthetized and intubated, which they can not do If MedicCJH sees this, I'd love to hear his opinion as a paramedic on what the cops could have/should have done in this situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokkemon Posted December 24, 2014 Share #46 Posted December 24, 2014 Why? What does an insane person from Baltimore shooting his girlfriend, himself, and two innocents have to do with the mayor who has called for only peaceful protest? Right. He was nuts. He wasn't an activist, he was nuts. If you provoke the crazies they will come and do something crazy. There was an opportunity to do something crazy, even if it wasn't sensible, and he took it. DeBlasio is responsible for such actions because of his whole tirade against the police last week. The crazy's instagram posts clearly show it was connected to the Garner thing; stop acting like they aren't connected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46Dover Posted December 24, 2014 Share #47 Posted December 24, 2014 If you provoke the crazies they will come and do something crazy. There was an opportunity to do something crazy, even if it wasn't sensible, and he took it. DeBlasio is responsible for such actions because of his whole tirade against the police last week. The crazy's instagram posts clearly show it was connected to the Garner thing; stop acting like they aren't connected. You mean to say the Garner incident touched him off so much that he shot his wife who happened to be a member of the U.S. Military??? I see some form of mental instability there (with the shooter) Side note: What was really crushing about the death of those police officers was one (not Ramos) was actually a sub in for another officer that day. That hurts even worse.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV9218 Posted December 24, 2014 Share #48 Posted December 24, 2014 If you provoke the crazies they will come and do something crazy. There was an opportunity to do something crazy, even if it wasn't sensible, and he took it. DeBlasio is responsible for such actions because of his whole tirade against the police last week. The crazy's instagram posts clearly show it was connected to the Garner thing; stop acting like they aren't connected. What tirade? When he acknowledged something that every parent of a black son has to say? When he never even directly criticized the police? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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