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trainfanrod

Restoring the Lirr track in queens

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I was thinking, if they are going to restore the abandoned line and fix the abandoned express tracks along the (A) , how are the express tracks(starting at JFK) going to be use once the service starts running? Like which trains would use the express tracks?

More than likely its gonna be all local service

 

...that's even if they actually rebuild the line

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Where would the (H) terminate at its northern end? There's Roosevelt Avenue's upper level, but I'm not sure how that was planned to connect to the Rockaways. The (H) would be the second crosstown route after the (G) if routed in this matter.

The unused upper level Roosevelt Ave platform would be a very good place to terminate the (H) service, given the direct connection to the many buses plus the (E), (F) and (7) trains. But from looking at a street map of Queens, it looks like a significant amount of tunneling would have to be done to get there, some of it under property because the streets nearest the station don't run in a straight line. 75th St dead-ends well before getting near the LIRR. 76th St might work, but is that the street the unused platform sits under? Or is it 75th or 74th?

 

I was thinking, if they are going to restore the abandoned line and fix the abandoned express tracks along the (A) , how are the express tracks(starting at JFK) going to be use once the service starts running? Like which trains would use the express tracks?

Why bother restoring the express tracks north of Howard Beach? There's only two active stations above Howard Beach, one of which is only on the northbound side and is seldom used now. It would be like restoring both express tracks on the Dyre Ave line in the Bronx, which has only five stations. The expense of putting back in the express tracks just to skip two stops just isn't worth it. Edited by T to Dyre Avenue

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Well the nb express track at Howard Beach should be good enough to use as they had to put up a temporary platform over the nb local track some years ago when they were doing reconstruction work at that station. But that said, yeah the stops aren't that heavily used, so no point in skipping them. I wonder if they could use them to lay up some trains. Seems like a nice long stretch that's being wasted, then again i guess probably too tempting for vandals to tag.

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if  they announce it now and the funding is not in place this may not happen until 2020 or longer btw (G) trains would have to be much longer and run more frequent if they plan to use it more than likely not because it would just shuttle people to the E,F,M,R&7 anyways the (G) dont run into places many people want to go imagine being at hoyt schmerhorn trying to get home in rockaways many people would take the A being quicker or metropolitan for the L more people would wait till bway for A unless the new stops and intra queens travel is your purpose its just not going to make a difference with the 6 cars

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How about eliminating one of the express tracks and have the Howard beach station rebuilt as side platform, track, island platform, track, island platform, track and side platform. The two Island platforms will serve as a crossover transfer for the Manhattan bound A train during AM rush hour and Rockaway Park-Beach 116 Street bound H train (if it gets revived) on the center tracks

 

North of the center track at Howard Beach splits in two toward the existing two center tracks with switch tracks coming from the side tracks, north of the Aquaduct Racetrack is track overpass coming from the old Rockaway spur heading south, two diamond crossover switch tracks near the Aquaduct Racetrack station.

 

those two proposals is not possible to built, but we will see how the MTA wants to do to the Rockaway spur and its accessibility.

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Most likely, there will be an at-grade junction directly south of Liberty Avenue, and two tracks will proceed onwards down the Rockaway Beach ROW, most likely with a stub terminal beneath Queens Blvd/Rego Park. An extension along Jxn Blvd would be nice and may reduce some of the stress on the QBL Locals, but it won't happen unless money is put up front. Personally, I believe that reviving the (H) is the most likely way to brand the service, and you can turn half or so of the trains at Howard Beach due to operating costs (Rockaway Park doesn't need 5 minute headways)

 

The main issue with reviving the ROW is how to handle the passengers. In its current state, it is not possible to transfer to the Lefferts (A), although that's not a problem here since they'd switch to the A elsewhere. However, The Jamaica Avenue station is smack halfway between Woodhaven and 104th on the J/Z. Since that would be the least crush loaded option if there was to be a stub terminal... Well, that would have to dealt with.

 

In the past I imagined sending it to LGA and then down Astoria Blvd to 86 St on the SAS or so, but the SAS is being built in a way that would make such an arrangement unreasonable, so the best it would do under this not-going-to-happen scenario is a stub terminal at 31 St to dump all the passengers onto the (N)/(W). 

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Howard Beach station was just heavily rebuilt when the AirTrain opened. They aren't gonna piss away money to rebuild it again. 3 of the 4 tracks at Howard Beach are active; they stored spare (A) trains there during the Sandy shutdown on the northbound express track. The southbound express track starts south of the station, and the northbound one ends just south of N. Conduit.

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THis may ot even happen for another 15 years but since they are  working on getting the funding right now and the approve by gov or mayor so i guess relief is on its way

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THis may ot even happen for another 15 years but since they are  working on getting the funding right now and the approve by gov or mayor so i guess relief is on its way

 

East Side Access has been ten years away for how long now? I'm not holding my breath for RBB reactivation until there's a shovel in the ground.

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Build the express tracks and then Broad Channel to Roosevelt Avenue non-stop. /s

the line is only 4 tracks south of Atlantic Avenue.

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the line is only 4 tracks south of Atlantic Avenue.

Then it won't have any stations from Atlantic Avenue to Queens Boulevard. /s

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Then it won't have any stations from Atlantic Avenue to Queens Boulevard. /s

why?

That takes away the purpose of the line!

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why?

That takes away the purpose of the line!

Do notice the "/s" in his post.

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Let say this line (calling it the (H) for now) get built. Here's how I would make the line:

Starts at Roosevelt Avenue's abandoned platform. West of the station, there will be a connection to the QBL local tracks, although this would be used only for a possible extension or G.O.s. East of Roosevelt Avenue, it runs nonstop to 63 Dr. East of 63 Dr, a crossover is made for connections to the QBL again. Then, it will come from underground onto the LIRR tracks, making stops at Fleet Street, Metropolitan Avenue, Myrtle Avenue (or Park Lane South if a station at Myrtle Avenue will be a problem with the park there), Jamaica Avenue (connecting to the (J)(Z) at 104 Street), Atlantic Avenue, and Liberty Avenue (connecting to the (A) at 104 Street). After Liberty, the (H) would use what would be the express tracks and a junction would be created for the (A) that is similar to north of E 180 Street on the (2)(5) until the Aqueduct stations. Afterwards, the (H) will make all stops to Rockaway Park. Thoughts?

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when i first seen the article i figure thats how it going to happen here going to go from QBL to ROCKAWAY PARK the (G) will be perfect since it already run in a 8-10 minute interval

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Set up from Roosevelt station in 1929

 

Winfield Spur: This was designed to provide through service to the Rockaways from midtown, and also to serve the neighborhoods of Maspeth and Ridgewood. It would have been a two track line arising from the Roosevelt Avenue station (the never-used upper level station, but also would have track connections to the main line), and curving southeasterly between 78th and 79th Sts. to Queens Blvd., then along the LIRR ROW into Garfield Avenue to 65th Place, then along 65th Place to Fresh Pond Road, and then along Fresh Pond Rd and Cypress Hills Avenue to a connection with the Central Avenue line outlined above. The line would be 2 tracks, and would be subway to 45th Avenue, then elevated to Fresh Pond Road, then subway again to Central Avenue. In looking at the map, the rationale for the circuitous route becomes a little more apparent, since it appears to skirt some large cemeteries, thus staying in the residential/commercial areas.

 

http://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/IND_Second_System_-_1929_Plan

 

Joe Brennan notes: There is an unused trackway for westbound local trains beginning at outer wall just east of station, rises up to same level as 2 trackways mentioned above making 3 trackways on upper level. At 78th St, 3 trackways on upper level curve to south, ending at "temporary" wall at edge of constructed subway. On lower track level in use, a fourth local trackway for eastbound local trains is seen also curving to south and similarly ending at a wall. The 4-track subway running south was a plan for a line to the Rockaways and south Jamaica proposed in 1929. Get out the atlases: via private property at 78th St now used as a playground, west in Garfield Ave, south in 65th Place, private property, Fresh Pond Road, then east in the LIRR, etc.

 

http://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/Station:_Roosevelt_Avenue_Terminal_Station_%28Queens_Boulevard_Line%29

Edited by Ceya
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don't think they will use the lines in cypress hils ave ridgewood section most of those are freight trains that CONNECT with the track from the ENY/ Bay ridge line that was abandoned yrs ago

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Yeah I agree with you. I was showing the orginal intent of Roosevelt Station. They do have spurs turn off at 63rd Rego Park.

 

As another poster stated this is a good route and I agree with him but also have a stop soon after coming under the LIRR tracks by the old REGO PARK LIRR ROW.

 

It would save time for people who walk to Queens Blvd from that side.

Edited by Ceya
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Set up from Roosevelt station in 1929

 

Winfield Spur: This was designed to provide through service to the Rockaways from midtown, and also to serve the neighborhoods of Maspeth and Ridgewood. It would have been a two track line arising from the Roosevelt Avenue station (the never-used upper level station, but also would have track connections to the main line), and curving southeasterly between 78th and 79th Sts. to Queens Blvd., then along the LIRR ROW into Garfield Avenue to 65th Place, then along 65th Place to Fresh Pond Road, and then along Fresh Pond Rd and Cypress Hills Avenue to a connection with the Central Avenue line outlined above. The line would be 2 tracks, and would be subway to 45th Avenue, then elevated to Fresh Pond Road, then subway again to Central Avenue. In looking at the map, the rationale for the circuitous route becomes a little more apparent, since it appears to skirt some large cemeteries, thus staying in the residential/commercial areas.

 

http://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/IND_Second_System_-_1929_Plan

 

Joe Brennan notes: There is an unused trackway for westbound local trains beginning at outer wall just east of station, rises up to same level as 2 trackways mentioned above making 3 trackways on upper level. At 78th St, 3 trackways on upper level curve to south, ending at "temporary" wall at edge of constructed subway. On lower track level in use, a fourth local trackway for eastbound local trains is seen also curving to south and similarly ending at a wall. The 4-track subway running south was a plan for a line to the Rockaways and south Jamaica proposed in 1929. Get out the atlases: via private property at 78th St now used as a playground, west in Garfield Ave, south in 65th Place, private property, Fresh Pond Road, then east in the LIRR, etc.

 

http://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/Station:_Roosevelt_Avenue_Terminal_Station_%28Queens_Boulevard_Line%29

I forget where, but I thought someone claimed to have gotten into that, and that it was one of the most impressive unused tunnels in the system. Either way, that it could finally be put to use might settle some old books. :)

 

Same goes for the rest of those trackways along the line in that area of Queens. Seeing those bellmouths when entering or leaving stations, I always think of the money wasted making those preparations back then.

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