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BxM4Woodlawn

Which Routes Deserve Some Artics?

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Now a route like the Bx6 carries over 20k; almost more than those 2 aforementioned routes combined & that's not an artic route.....

 

Is there anything that would make it difficult for artics to run on the Bx6 anywhere along the route?  I walked to and from the BxM4 yesterday.  I considered getting a Bx6, but going to my session, I basically outwalked the bus from Grand Concourse almost over to Boricua College, and coming back, the buses that I did see were packed to the rafters, so I just walked and got some exercise.  Much more civilized that way since it wasn't hot outside.  On occasion I take the Metro-North at Melrose to shorten my walk but during the cold months, the walk the BxM4 is just fine.  It just seems as if crowding on that line is becoming worse. They're going to have to bump up service at some point, but then again there could be so many fare beaters that the overcrowding may not be noticed.

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Is there anything that would make it difficult for artics to run on the Bx6 anywhere along the route?  I walked to and from the BxM4 yesterday.  I considered getting a Bx6, but going to my session, I basically outwalked the bus from Grand Concourse almost over to Boricua College, and coming back, the buses that I did see were packed to the rafters, so I just walked and got some exercise.  Much more civilized that way since it wasn't hot outside.  On occasion I take the Metro-North at Melrose to shorten my walk but during the cold months, the walk the BxM4 is just fine.  It just seems as if crowding on that line is becoming worse. They're going to have to bump up service at some point, but then again there could be so many fare beaters that the overcrowding may not be noticed.

 

 

The only thing I can think of is the turn at Riverside Drive. But if the Bx4 can make that turn from 149th St to Bergen Av, the Bx6 can make that turn.

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The only thing I can think of is the turn at Riverside Drive. But if the Bx4 can make that turn from 149th St to Bergen Av, the Bx6 can make that turn.

Oddly enough they just put a new schedule for the Bx6 for June 28th.  I don't see any different.  Buses were bunched up and packed as I made my way to the BxM4.

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No argument from me.... In general, I have always been in favor of more 40 footers in our system over artics from day one.

 

Let me ask you something, since you are a frequent Bx12 rider....

It's something I never put any real thought into, but what percentage would you say of the Bx12's total ridership, are riders emanating from/heading to Manhattan (on the 12)? Would you say it's comparable to the amt. of ppl. that ride b/w PBP & Co-op, or significantly more, or less?

 

First it's LTD's on the Q88 in that which routes deserve a LTD thread, now it's artics here in this thread.... Lol....

 

Anyway, you're spot on here... I'd say if some Q88 trips were to have artics ran on them during school let in/out hours & the rush, then current headways during those times would soar.... Artics on that route would be far worse than giving that route LTD service.....

The Q88 does suffer for a lot of reasons. One thing to start is that the route should be more frequent certain times of the day. That route is unreliable during the rush hours. There has been times that I waited 45 minutes for it to show up. School trippers also have a tendency not to show up at all or on time. That means that regular buses have to pick up loads of school kids and is packed where the bus has to skip stops. I've dealt with the Q88 for the past four years and there are improvements that need to be done. I could see artics being put on that route from CS only during for school trippers because big schools like St Francis Prep and Francis Lewis High have many students that leave school at the same time and they need artics for the amount of people that board. Now that I'm going to college in the city I will totally avoid the Q88 and take the Q64 because I know that route bunches up and run every 10 minutes to Woordhaven Blvd in the morning. As far as a LTD the Q88 doesn't need that because the trip from Queens Village to Queens Center Mall is not that long and most people get on and off at the major streets anyway.

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The Q27 is a weird situation excluding when school lets out you can have buses every 3min in one direction all of them packed but service in the other direction every 20min but without severe overcrowding and the MTA has already figured that out as the Q27 has a similar service pattern as the X1 bus where in the peak direction there is a lot of service but in the off peak is very minimal service instead of attics which the Q27 can't handle I suppose maybe a new service pattern can do the trick

How about instead of every bus either going to Jamica Ave peak buses be split into three different variations Q27,Q27LTD,and a new Q27A or Q27X the idea would be that the the Q27 and the Q27LTD run to either Queensboro Community collage or the LIE (which ever is better) and then this new Q27X would pick up at flushing go along main at to the LIE and then run non stop to Queensboro Community collage and then make all local stops south of the collage

Free transfer should be provided to those continuing in the same direction from Q27 to Q27X or vise versa. Of course all off peak Q27 buses will still run the full route like they currently do and school trippers would remain un affected this idea would allow to cover the same area with probably a few less buses and faster travel times for those going to the collage and points south from flushing. Please keep in mind the or would only be in affect during rush hour in the peak direction like how the current Q27LTD is

As for the Q88 it need more operating hours in general because I remover on Sunday mornings I would take the the Q44 and first Q88 which ran at like past 8am and that bus was always crowded and that was going away from woodhave so attics on school trippers and the first few buses of the day in both directions Would really help and CS always has a few attics lying around which they could give no problem

Edited by IAlam

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The only thing I can think of is the turn at Riverside Drive. But if the Bx4 can make that turn from 149th St to Bergen Av, the Bx6 can make that turn.

Artics have the same turning radius as their 40' counterparts, save for the D60s which actually turn better

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The Q27 is a weird situation excluding when school lets out you can have buses every 3min in one direction all of them packed but service in the other direction every 20min but without severe overcrowding and the MTA has already figured that out as the Q27 has a similar service pattern as the X1 bus where in the peak direction there is a lot of service but in the off peak is very minimal service instead of attics which the Q27 can't handle I suppose maybe a new service pattern can do the trick

How about instead of every bus either going to Jamica Ave peak buses be split into three different variations Q27,Q27LTD,and a new Q27A or Q27X the idea would be that the the Q27 and the Q27LTD run to either Queensboro Community collage or the LIE (which ever is better) and then this new Q27X would pick up at flushing go along main at to the LIE and then run non stop to Queensboro Community collage and then make all local stops south of the collage

Free transfer should be provided to those continuing in the same direction from Q27 to Q27X or vise versa. Of course all off peak Q27 buses will still run the full route like they currently do and school trippers would remain un affected this idea would allow to cover the same area with probably a few less buses and faster travel times for those going to the collage and points south from flushing. Please keep in mind the or would only be in affect during rush hour in the peak direction like how the current Q27LTD is

As for the Q88 it need more operating hours in general because I remover on Sunday mornings I would take the the Q44 and first Q88 which ran at like past 8am and that bus was always crowded and that was going away from woodhave so attics on school trippers and the first few buses of the day in both directions Would really help and CS always has a few attics lying around which they could give no problem

I am not really a fan of this Q27X which does not even follow the same routing as the original Q27/LTD. The whole purpose of an express like service is to have service become much faster and efficient. I can tell you right now as a person who travels on Main Street at least twice a week on the Q20/Q44 I can tell you that on a typical day there is traffic between Roosevelt Ave and the Horace Harding Expressway. The Q20/Q44 can take almost 20 minutes on some days just to travel that length so the Q27X would not work.

Now you also have it where it seems like every bus is running to either the College and or the LIE. Why does everyone think that this College needs and overload of service. You already have the Q27 from Flushing and the Q30 from Jamaica doing that and I think that is more than enough. What would serve the southern end of Springfield between the LIE and 120th Ave. The Q27 already picks up decently and more than the Q88. The Q88 should really end around at Hillside Ave because I feel that buses bunch up and cause the other part of the line to become unreliable. I don't know how it happens but I notice more buses are able to show up on time on the Queens Village side than the Woodhaven Blvd side. Now as far as the Q88 running earlier on Sunday I agree with you because as a major connector route starting after 8 really makes no sense. There was a time when it started at 9:50 in the morning that was insane. Even though I only needed it once I had to use the Q64 instead which is however closer to me.

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I am not really a fan of this Q27X which does not even follow the same routing as the original Q27/LTD. The whole purpose of an express like service is to have service become much faster and efficient. I can tell you right now as a person who travels on Main Street at least twice a week on the Q20/Q44 I can tell you that on a typical day there is traffic between Roosevelt Ave and the Horace Harding Expressway. The Q20/Q44 can take almost 20 minutes on some days just to travel that length so the Q27X would not work.

Now you also have it where it seems like every bus is running to either the College and or the LIE. Why does everyone think that this College needs and overload of service. You already have the Q27 from Flushing and the Q30 from Jamaica doing that and I think that is more than enough. What would serve the southern end of Springfield between the LIE and 120th Ave. The Q27 already picks up decently and more than the Q88. The Q88 should really end around at Hillside Ave because I feel that buses bunch up and cause the other part of the line to become unreliable. I don't know how it happens but I notice more buses are able to show up on time on the Queens Village side than the Woodhaven Blvd side. Now as far as the Q88 running earlier on Sunday I agree with you because as a major connector route starting after 8 really makes no sense. There was a time when it started at 9:50 in the morning that was insane. Even though I only needed it once I had to use the Q64 instead which is however closer to me.

okay the reason I at to use main st it that is the fastest route to the LiE the other route kissena already take 20min without traffic another route that it could take would be collage point blvd cause that is the shortest distance

However the idea of what I'm doing comes from the MNR where some buses run half way through the line while others run directly to where the other terminates and then makes all stops after that

The main point of my idea if to have the route do the same work with less buses because the run like how I explained earlier with the X1 buses on the Q27 already bunch up really bad and if we have then terminate at the LIE and then take the highway back to flushing which could speed up reliability on that part of the route the Q27X yea it would be a bit more unreliable but let's face it the interval between buses on that part of the line would have significant decease in service

Additionally yes I do agree with you that service on main and the LIE might be a bit unreliable but compared to the narrow local roads the line already goes through the Q27X would defiantly be faster even if it wasn't by much furthermore saying the Q27X was late because of it wasn't reliable then the return Q27 which would have to come from Q27X buses would probably be late but I'm pretty sure the interval between busses wouldn't change much which is what the MTA cares about

Saying that Mainst is always bad is simply not true yeas it can get bad but one thing I always notice is that in the afternoon the traffic builds up going to flushing which is the opposite of where the Q27X would be going at that time the LIE we know it's slow but being direct and usually since it's not stopping it should be fine and it would probably only affect buses in a 2 hour interval in the morning and a 4 hour interval in the afternoon/evening all buses outside that interval run the full route including any LTD run it may not have the best reliability but in no way will any bus line will have much anyway and the Q44SBS is coming soon so the Q27X should be able to piggyback off that if possible

Finally the idea is to address how to add more capacity on a line that can't support attics since more people get on and of between the LIE and Flushing it would make sense to cycle more buses on that part of the line now that buses can easily get back on the highway and back to flushing the Q27 would be able to do More TPH or use less buses it may not be a flawless plan but it is worth testing out

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EXACTLY! they will never live as long as the RTS's and Orion V's

I think it was you who said that the low floor buses would not last more than a decade. Well, the first group of Orion 7 OGs from the 6365-6489 batch have reached over that.

 

On to the original topic, I think the routes that currently have attics are fine.

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One can also make the argument that the M60 didn't need artics(in some ways, I think it needed it, but the Q44 needed it more), and the M60 ridership is almost as big as the Q10 in terms of ridership, but not by demand. But I digress....

As an current operator on the M60, I can tell you the best thing they could've done was add artics to the line; 40 fts can kiss ass. The overnights are getting worse, but they did adjust the headway, which was every 30 mins prior; now it's every 20 mins (which it should be every 15 from 1-5am), and every 15 mins between 4-5am, then every 10 mins 5-6am, then every 7 mins between 6am-8am.

 

Problem with the line then and now, is the bus bunching.

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As an current operator on the M60, I can tell you the best thing they could've done was add artics to the line; 40 fts can kiss ass. The overnights are getting worse, but they did adjust the headway, which was every 30 mins prior; now it's every 20 mins (which it should be every 15 from 1-5am), and every 15 mins between 4-5am, then every 10 mins 5-6am, then every 7 mins between 6am-8am.

 

Problem with the line then and now, is the bus bunching.

I was being hypothetical by using the M60 as an example.

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Is there anything that would make it difficult for artics to run on the Bx6 anywhere along the route?

I thought about this very question when I made that post.... And my answer is, Nope.... I see no reason why artics can't run on the route...

(Artics wouldn't be a problem up there on Riverside drive; at least for any b/o worth their weight, that is.)

 

Being that it's (the 6) out of WF, they're going to dedicate their artics to the 15 & 19, of course.....

 

The Q27 is a weird situation excluding when school lets out you can have buses every 3min in one direction all of them packed but service in the other direction every 20min but without severe overcrowding and the MTA has already figured that out as the Q27 has a similar service pattern as the X1 bus where in the peak direction there is a lot of service but in the off peak is very minimal service instead of attics which the Q27 can't handle I suppose maybe a new service pattern can do the trick

How about instead of every bus either going to Jamica Ave peak buses be split into three different variations Q27,Q27LTD,and a new Q27A or Q27X the idea would be that the the Q27 and the Q27LTD run to either Queensboro Community collage or the LIE (which ever is better) and then this new Q27X would pick up at flushing go along main at to the LIE and then run non stop to Queensboro Community collage and then make all local stops south of the collage

Free transfer should be provided to those continuing in the same direction from Q27 to Q27X or vise versa. Of course all off peak Q27 buses will still run the full route like they currently do and school trippers would remain un affected this idea would allow to cover the same area with probably a few less buses and faster travel times for those going to the collage and points south from flushing. Please keep in mind the or would only be in affect during rush hour in the peak direction like how the current Q27LTD is

I am not really a fan of this Q27X which does not even follow the same routing as the original Q27/LTD. The whole purpose of an express like service is to have service become much faster and efficient. I can tell you right now as a person who travels on Main Street at least twice a week on the Q20/Q44 I can tell you that on a typical day there is traffic between Roosevelt Ave and the Horace Harding Expressway. The Q20/Q44 can take almost 20 minutes on some days just to travel that length so the Q27X would not work.

Now you also have it where it seems like every bus is running to either the College and or the LIE. Why does everyone think that this College needs and overload of service. You already have the Q27 from Flushing and the Q30 from Jamaica doing that and I think that is more than enough. What would serve the southern end of Springfield between the LIE and 120th Ave. The Q27 already picks up decently and more than the Q88.....

I tend to like the general idea of a peak only "27x" but I don't like the fact that it would deviate from its routing either... a good while back, someone had a similar idea, except that it used northern blvd (instead of main & the LIE) to get to QCC....

 

If such a route existed, I would have the first stop from Flushing be HHE, then Hillside, then Jamaica, then all local stops to Cambria Hgts/120th.... No routing deviation whatsoever.... These would only run during the rush; some service would be extracted from the Q27 local, with the Q26 ending at QCC instead... Basically, the Q26 + the Q27 local would provide the service to QCC, instead of the burden being on the Q27 (route) from flushing itself....

 

This is what I'm saying:

Q26 - extension to QCC (via Q27 routing east of Utopia pkwy.... Hollis ct. blvd service eliminated)

Q27 local - decreased service b/w Flushing & HHE

Q27 LTD - unchanged (current LTD stops b/w Flushing & Cambria Hgts.)

Q27x/super LTD/whatever - runs nonstop from Flushing to HHE, then stops at Hillside av, Jamaica av, then all local stops to Cambria Hgts....

 

.....The Q88 should really end around at Hillside Ave because I feel that buses bunch up and cause the other part of the line to become unreliable.

...is exactly the point I was conveying in that what route needs a LTD thread.

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On to the original topic, I think the routes that currently have attics are fine.

 

Just curious what if we removed artics from the M102 and M103 I feel like they would still be able to do fine without artics the M101 goes pretty far north so maybe its better to keep artic on that tho but TBH IDK

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Just curious what if we removed artics from the M102 and M103 I feel like they would still be able to do fine without artics the M101 goes pretty far north so maybe its better to keep artic on that tho but TBH IDK

Those M102s and M103s get decent usage too....when they had 40ft buses running on the 102 and 103 earlier this year(not in the snow), those buses were PACKED! Plus, you'd be screwing with the run system as the M101, M102 and M103 all interline within each other in some way in the runs.

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Those M102s and M103s get decent usage too....when they had 40ft buses running on the 102 and 103 earlier this year(not in the snow), those buses were PACKED! Plus, you'd be screwing with the run system as the M101, M102 and M103 all interline within each other in some way in the runs.

 

Oh i didn't know that luckily I stated that when i made my post

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Personally, I would set the Q27 up this way:

 

All locals terminate at HHE.

LTDs only go as far as Jamaica Av.

Q27X service makes all LTD stops from Main St to Holly Av, then runs nonstop to HHE and makes local stops past that point. (In all seriousness, how many people past Jamaica Av actually go past QCC?)

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Personally, I would set the Q27 up this way:

 

All locals terminate at HHE.

LTDs only go as far as Jamaica Av.

Q27X service makes all LTD stops from Main St to Holly Av, then runs nonstop to HHE and makes local stops past that point.

(In all seriousness, how many people past Jamaica Av actually go past QCC?)

South of Jamaica, little to none...

(If that question was raised after reading my post, I'm here to tell you that wasn't the purpose of my 27x setup anyway)

 

Regardless, reading your post here.... Unless you plan on running just as many 27x's as you would LTD service, this setup, to me, grossly shortchanges basic Q27 service south of Jamaica...

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q27 overall is just too long For the type of service it provides

Edited by IAlam

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South of Jamaica, little to none...

(If that question was raised after reading my post, I'm here to tell you that wasn't the purpose of my 27x setup anyway)

 

Regardless, reading your post here.... Unless you plan on running just as many 27x's as you would LTD service, this setup, to me, grossly shortchanges basic Q27 service south of Jamaica...

 

It was a general question. Would reverting the Q27 to pre-south of Jamaica days and making a new route from Cambria Heights to either Bayside LIRR or Fort Totten work using QCC/Cardozo as an anchor, or would that fail like the Q79 did because it didn't connect to a subway stop?

Edited by bobtehpanda

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More than likely, it will probably fail like the old Q79 because of that reason. I wonder if cutting back the Q27 to LIRR Queens Village and maybe extending the Q83 back there or to Queensboro would work

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More than likely, it will probably fail like the old Q79 because of that reason. I wonder if cutting back the Q27 to LIRR Queens Village and maybe extending the Q83 back there or to Queensboro would work

I never saw the need for the Q83 to run to Queens Village at night. What is wrong with it's current terminal at night. I also had an ideas of having the Q1 extended to Cambria Heights 120 Ave if the Q27 was cut back to Jamaica LIRR. It might be better off than the Q77 because that is also another route that suffers from reliability.

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I never saw the need for the Q83 to run to Queens Village at night. What is wrong with it's current terminal at night. 

Easier DH run since the depot is like a minute away from the R.R Station, and the runtime from the split to each one of their terminals during corresponding parts of the day is similar. It's not really for the convenience of people. They used to do that all day, but they were just made into Springfield short-turns. Besides, I don't know if the demand of service late at night to the eastern part of Cambria Heights is enough to warrant the service.

Edited by BM5 via Woodhaven

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I never saw the need for the Q83 to run to Queens Village at night. What is wrong with it's current terminal at night. I also had an ideas of having the Q1 extended to Cambria Heights 120 Ave if the Q27 was cut back to Jamaica LIRR. It might be better off than the Q77 because that is also another route that suffers from reliability.

Can't extend the Q1 to 120...it already does that Bellerose-QV loop overnights. Just give the people additional service between Jamaica and Murdock

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Can't extend the Q1 to 120...it already does that Bellerose-QV loop overnights. Just give the people additional service between Jamaica and Murdock

Braddock Ave barely picks up as it is right now. However I feel like people south of Hillside Ave on Springfield either want the community college or Jamaica. If I lived over there I would not take the Q27 all the way to Flushing especially a local because that will take around an hour vs maybe a 25 minute ride on the Q1 to the subway station and 35 to the terminal.

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