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Conductor 6601 Hiring Process


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Conductor, Exam No. 6601

List Status: This list has been established as of 2/14/2018.

Pay: Starts at $24.33 and increases to $34.75 in the sixth year of service

Training: Monday thru Friday, across three 8-hour tours (AMs, PMs, overnights), unless otherwise specified.

Highest List Number Called: For initial Pre-Employment: (4800's) - For Medical: (Last Known - 3470's)

Next Training Class: Unknown

Resources:

(Updated January 16, 2022)

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The problem is if I or anyone else successfully protested a proposed answer that was arbitrary I am not the only one to benefit. Everyone else who picked the same answer as me will also benefit. I don't receive any preference or extra credit for being analytical or proving that MTA's proposed answer was illogical or arbitrary. I don't receive preference in hiring or promotion. Is that fair? If I took a day off from work to attend the protest while someone else did not why do I not receive any extra credit?

 

You are mistaken, if you have a proposed answer changed, only you benefit. Anyone else who got that question wrong has to make their own protest and explanation. You benefit if you challenge intelligently and persuasively and make a compelling rationale to have your wrong answer tossed out. Your other points about hiring, promotion and days off from work are irrelevant to the exam. The MTA is very clever about this. If you make knowledgeable, sensible points in your protest, the answers can be granted based on your reasoning skills. But they won't tell you that. They want to see if you possess the initiative to come down and make the effort to persuade them, to show them that you're smart and care about this job enough to understand it and fight for it.

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Did you find out information about how the protest session works from someone in the MTA?  

Did you have a chance to protest any questions yet?

 

I checked my score and I was flabbergasted. I saw, in comparing my answer key to the answers I recorded that I had six wrong. I thought I only had one wrong. There is no way I could have gotten SIX wrong. I believe the test was incorrectly graded; somehow, somebody somewhere in the exams unit made mistakes. To those of you who feel you got more questions wrong than you should have, I think you should protest.

But how does this protest session work? What happens after you write your paper there? Do they get back to you, do they justify themselves if you're overruled?

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You are mistaken, if you have a proposed answer changed, only you benefit. Anyone else who got that question wrong has to make their own protest and explanation. 

 

That's not true. If a question gets thrown out, it changes everyones scores. If the MTA throws out 5 questions because people protested them, then the entire 6601 exam changes from a 80 question test to a 75 question test, changing the scores for everyone who completed the test. 

Edited by DoubleL
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How did the protest session go?

Where there many participants for the PM session?  

 

That's not true. If a question gets thrown out, it changes everyones scores. If the MTA throws out 5 questions because people protested them, then the entire 6601 exam changes from a 80 question test to a 75 question test, changing the scores for everyone who completed the test. 

Edited by transitnyc
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That's not true. If a question gets thrown out, it changes everyones scores. If the MTA throws out 5 questions because people protested them, then the entire 6601 exam changes from a 80 question test to a 75 question test, changing the scores for everyone who completed the test. 

I thought this was the case too.  I've never heard that writing out a logical argument to protest a question was part of the "test"...it also seems odd that they'd only change it for the person who protested.  Not everyone can attend the protest sessions...doesn't seem fair

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That's not true. If a question gets thrown out, it changes everyones scores. If the MTA throws out 5 questions because people protested them, then the entire 6601 exam changes from a 80 question test to a 75 question test, changing the scores for everyone who completed the test.

 

The problem with that rationale is that if three people protest a given question and they picked three different answers, what would the decision be? And people who didn'yt protest would benefit even though they conceded.

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You are mistaken, if you have a proposed answer changed, only you benefit. Anyone else who got that question wrong has to make their own protest and explanation. You benefit if you challenge intelligently and persuasively and make a compelling rationale to have your wrong answer tossed out. Your other points about hiring, promotion and days off from work are irrelevant to the exam. The MTA is very clever about this. If you make knowledgeable, sensible points in your protest, the answers can be granted based on your reasoning skills. But they won't tell you that. They want to see if you possess the initiative to come down and make the effort to persuade them, to show them that you're smart and care about this job enough to understand it and fight for it.

 

 

I thought this was the case too.  I've never heard that writing out a logical argument to protest a question was part of the "test"...it also seems odd that they'd only change it for the person who protested.  Not everyone can attend the protest sessions...doesn't seem fair

 

 

Keep in mind that this is the internet and basically anyone can pull a statement out of their ass and make it sound pretty. Take your estimated score, attend your respective protest session if you can and just wait for an official word from transit themselves. Until then, don't go crazy over all this chit chat from non-officials.

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The problem with that rationale is that if three people protest a given question and they picked three different answers, what would the decision be? And people who didn'yt protest would benefit even though they conceded.

 

The answers themselves don't get changed, because that's not fair. That would leave a group of people who thought they had the right answer actually turn out to be wrong because a few people protested the answer. When you protest and if the MTA agrees, they throw out the question. They pretend it was never given, so everyone benefits. That's why everyone's score changes. The test would go from a 80 question test down to a 79 question test. 

 

How did the protest session go?

Where there many participants for the PM session?  

 
I don't know. I didn't attend the protest session. I would have, but I had other responsibilities to attend to. Though if anyone else went, I'd love to hear a report. 
Edited by DoubleL
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My exam date was 4/30 AM. Got 3 incorrect. Was pretty surprised I'd gotten that many wrong. The protest session for 4/30 AM is Wednesday July 13th from 10AM to 12PM. Hopefully I can make it and see if it's possible to justify my answers.

Edited by NanaMac
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Keep in mind that this is the internet and basically anyone can pull a statement out of their ass and make it sound pretty. Take your estimated score, attend your respective protest session if you can and just wait for an official word from transit themselves. Until then, don't go crazy over all this chit chat from non-officials.

Unfortunately, the official officials aren't pulling statements out of THEIR asses to clarify, so all anyone can do is guess. I will admit, I don't know how the protests are graded. Here is what I do know:

 

"Bring with you a pen, any texts, manuals, or other material you wish to cite in your protest. This is an opportunity for you to explain in writing why you believe that YOUR ANSWERS(emphasis added) should be considered as good as or better than the proposed key answers."

 

Judging by this statement, the exam graders will only consider modifying a given individual's answer keys only for that individual and not for the entire pool of test-takers. That seems to be the method that's going to be applied. Meaning, if one person successfully protests an answer on Question #6, for example, but another person who got it wrong doesn't protest, the non-protester forfeits that question.

 

If it worked the other way around, and the answers were changed for all test-takers as the result of a protest, then what would happen to the scores of tbe test takers who got #6 right? Would their answers be changed to wrong? Wouldn't they then have to protest? Except there is no mention here on the form of everyone having their test scores changed as the result of one protest.

That's not true. If a question gets thrown out, it changes everyones scores. If the MTA throws out 5 questions because people protested them, then the entire 6601 exam changes from a 80 question test to a 75 question test, changing the scores for everyone who completed the test.

 

So the people who got those five questions right are penalized by having their answers struck from consideration?

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I doesn't even make logical sense to only adjust the grade of the protesters. The question will be thrown out for all testers. Now all I need is for someone to tell me when the protest session for the 5/22 am exam will take place so I can get 'our' scores adjusted.

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I doesn't even make logical sense to only adjust the grade of the protesters. The question will be thrown out for all testers. Now all I need is for someone to tell me when the protest session for the 5/22 am exam will take place so I can get 'our' scores adjusted.

The walk-in protest session is July 14, 2016 between 1:30 - 3:30pm at 180 Livingston Street, room 4041, Brooklyn NY 11201. You MUST HAVE your Candidates Personal Record of Answers with you. It is your ticket of admission. Candidates will not be admitted without it.

 

Looks like I was wrong about the way answers are graded. Here is the official info:

 

After Taking a Test

 

Multiple-Choice, Essay and Oral Tests

The City begins the process of validating an answer key or a rating guide and scoring each examination. As part of this process, State Civil Service Law provides a limited period of time in which each candidate is eligible to protest proposed answers to multiple-choice test questions or the rating guide for essay and oral tests. Any challenges received during the protest period are resolved by a panel (see TVB below) and the final answer key or the final rating guide is approved for test rating. Once all test parts are rated, the list is created in rank order by passing score and is eventually established as the eligible list, which is used to hire employees for vacancies. The creation of the eligible list usually occurs six to nine months after the test date.

 

Upon publication or establishment of a list, the City notifies all candidates of their official score and list number. Candidates who believe they were scored incorrectly may appeal their scores at this time.

 

Test Validation Board (TVB)

Generally, the applicant protest period for non-computerized exams begins in the fifth week after the test is given. Candidates then have thirty (30) days to submit written protests to the proposed key answers. Candidates must explain why their answers are as good as or better than the posted key answers. The Test Validation Board (TVB) reviews each protest and if necessary, makes appropriate changes to the answer key. The TVB traditionally consists of one representative of the union, a subject expert and an exam expert. Upon completion of the TVB review a final answer key is established, the exams are rated and the eligible list is published and/or established. There is a 30-day period after the exam results are released (upon the publishing or establishment of a list) during which candidates are permitted to appeal the calculation of their final score.

Edited by ren
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This is legitimate, and official, and you can take this with you to the bank.

 

If a question is successfully protested, it does NOT have to be thrown out. However, more than one answer may be accepted based on the protest (up to and including all 4 being accepted).

 

If answers that were marked incorrect before the protest, would now be marked correct following the outcome of a successful protest, they will be marked CORRECT FOR EVERYONE, regardless of whether or not that person was involved in the protest. If answers that were marked incorrect before the protest, are still going to be marked incorrect following the protest, they will continue to be incorrect.

 

Example: Question. Answer is A. Person protests saying B should be right. Protest is granted. A and B are correct.

-Everyone who put A has already gotten credit for the question when it is graded. There is no change to their score.

-Everyone who put B gets credit for the question being correct where they didn't previously. Their scores go up.

-Everyone who put C or D is still wrong.

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That makes more sense. It's hard to believe that everyone's score wouldn't change based on an individual(s) protest. By that logic if 30K people had a question wrong and wanted to protest, you wouldn't expect 30K people to show up to a session over the same question.

 

Let's just wait for the final list which will probably be a while from now anyway. I didn't score all that great myself but I have my fingers crossed. And based on the poll I think we're underestimating how many people got more than 7 wrong.

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exam date 4/23 and I got 6 wrong =( crazy thing is I could have sworn I had everything right except two iffy ones and it turns out I got one of the iffy ones right and the other wrong. the two iffy ones for me were questions 30 and 62 and my key was as follows for the wrong ones.

 

06. A

11. B

39. D

56. A

62. C

80. A

 

can anyone confirm any of these could be protested?

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exam date 4/23 and I got 6 wrong =( crazy thing is I could have sworn I had everything right except two iffy ones and it turns out I got one of the iffy ones right and the other wrong. the two iffy ones for me were questions 30 and 62 and my key was as follows for the wrong ones.

 

06. A

11. B

39. D

56. A

62. C

80. A

 

can anyone confirm any of these could be protested?

i got wrong # 06, 39, 56 as well, plus # 2, 38, 65. didn't hear anything about the protest session.

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exam date 4/23 and I got 6 wrong =( crazy thing is I could have sworn I had everything right except two iffy ones and it turns out I got one of the iffy ones right and the other wrong. the two iffy ones for me were questions 30 and 62 and my key was as follows for the wrong ones.

 

06. A

11. B

39. D

56. A

62. C

80. A

 

can anyone confirm any of these could be protested?

Yes, they can! Protest them anyway, you never know.

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i got wrong # 06, 39, 56 as well, plus # 2, 38, 65. didn't hear anything about the protest session.

They were supposed to give you tbis information at tne exam, as well as a Candidate's Personal Record of Answers, on which you were supposed to write the date of the protest session. Protest sessions are all this week at 180 Livingston Street.

 

If you are unable to attend the protest session, then you may file a post-protest. In a post-protest, you must submit your protests no later than 30 days from the scheduled protest session date with the exam title, test date, exam number, Social Security #, and question number(s) along with your name and address and mail it to:

 

MTA New York City Transit

Examinations Section

180 Livingston Street

Room 4070

Brooklyn, NY 11201

Edited by ren
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Can you please explain to me how a post protest works? If a person does not have a chance to attend a protest session but they know they have question number "X" wrong according to the proposed answer key, how are they supposed to protest question "X"?

Do they just write a letter to MTA stating "I believe the proposed answer is incorrect and the answer I gave is better"?

How does the MTA realistically expect you to protest a question without going to a protest session and obtaining access to the exam booklet during the protest session to be able to review the questions and answers?

 

They were supposed to give you tbis information at tne exam, as well as a Candidate's Personal Record of Answers, on which you were supposed to write the date of the protest session. Protest sessions are all this week at 180 Livingston Street.

If you are unable to attend the protest session, then you may file a post-protest. In a post-protest, you must submit your protests no later than 30 days from the scheduled protest session date with the exam title, test date, exam number, Social Security #, and question number(s) along with your name and address and mail it to:

MTA New York City Transit

Examinations Section

180 Livingston Street

Room 4070

Brooklyn, NY 11201

Edited by transitnyc
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Well i went to the protest session today and the 3 answers i got wrong, I infact did get wrong. Messed up on the train number on 1 question. i picked the answer that was worded correctly just had the train number different from what they gave. if you were goin to fast or didnt go over your answers correctly you will miss train #5565 and put #5655 and thats what happened to me on 1 question. The second question i missed one word out of the correct answer.  The third question i would of probably got wrong regardless cuz it was stupid. Nothing to protest here. Goodluck guys

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They were supposed to give you tbis information at tne exam, as well as a Candidate's Personal Record of Answers, on which you were supposed to write the date of the protest session. Protest sessions are all this week at 180 Livingston Street.

 

If you are unable to attend the protest session, then you may file a post-protest. In a post-protest, you must submit your protests no later than 30 days from the scheduled protest session date with the exam title, test date, exam number, Social Security #, and question number(s) along with your name and address and mail it to:

 

MTA New York City Transit

Examinations Section

180 Livingston Street

Room 4070

Brooklyn, NY 11201

 

While this is true, it is imperative to go to the protest session because without it you will not have the questions or the answer choices and their associated letters. Additionally, you will need to bring "supporting material" to make your case, which can be difficult without the question or the paragraph the questions are pulled from, as source material.

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Well i went to the protest session today and the 3 answers i got wrong, I infact did get wrong. Messed up on the train number on 1 question. i picked the answer that was worded correctly just had the train number different from what they gave. if you were goin to fast or didnt go over your answers correctly you will miss train #5565 and put #5655 and thats what happened to me on 1 question. The second question i missed one word out of the correct answer.  The third question i would of probably got wrong regardless cuz it was stupid. Nothing to protest here. Goodluck guys

 

Those questions along with the ones regarding the schedule were the ones that stumbled me the most, everything else was pretty straight forward IMO. Fortunately I had about an hour and a half to check my answers and I noticed the different numbers and caught my mistakes.

 

I'm positive the only question I had wrong was the one with the scheduled time arrival. That one seemed to have multiple answers. No biggie...

 

Don't beat yourself up over that, a 96 is a decent score for a transit exam. It'll probably take them longer, but you should receive a call.

 

There's a new Train Operator exam coming out later this year, there's your plan B.

Edited by Jchambers2120
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