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East New York

NYCT Bus orders through 2019

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NYCTF Exclusive

 

Alright guys it is now Monday, and as I stated over the weekend I would have a full report this afternoon.

 

Let's begin shall we.... All information effective July 27, 2015

 

The current New Flyer order was delayed because of wiring issues, that are reported to be fixed at this time. The Nova issues are all behind them, and they are now expected to accelerate delivery of the LFS order.

 

The Luminator Spectrum retrofit program is almost complete, with signs now installed on 279 buses.

 

Upcoming confirmations are effective as long as the current orders continue to be delivered on time and no issues arise.

 

CNG: 138 New Flyer XN40's with options for 125. Pilots expected by years end, with delivery running through 2016

 

Articulated: Order now expected by years end as a sole award for the base order, with a split on the table. The order will also be changed to 230 buses with options for 301. As of right now it remains competitive between Nova and New Flyer. (Note: This procurement has been delayed or pushed back 5 times now)

 

Diesel: 420 options to be exercised and split between Nova and New Flyer. As of right now in the meanwhile another immediate option for New Flyer is expected in the coming days, however it has yet to be confirmed. 

 

Lets get into this 420 Split. MTA has pushed the order back just a bit in order to ensure Nova does in fact get a piece of the pie. As I originally noted, unless there is a major change over the next 90 days NF gets the bulk. Some buses in the fleet may have alternative configurations for evaluation, but the bulk are as follows:

 

252 New Flyer XD40's, with Cummins/Allison, Luminator Spectrum front signs, Titan side and rear.

168  NovaBus LFS', with Cummins/ZF, Axion signs (NOT Spectrums)

 

Delivery schedule for these options also confirmed.

 

Pilots/Lead buses Q1 2016

60 buses Q2 2016

120 buses Q3 2016

220 buses Q4 2016 

Edited by East New York
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Hmm. That artic option order is more of an expansion than a replacement. The main order, which is 230 buses, will leave around at least 50 D60 buses or so a bit longer to run. I wonder which routes are planned to be converted into artics.

Of course, those artics will replace the 40 fters that need replacing, but still.

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NYCTF Exclusive

 

Alright guys it is now Monday, and as I stated over the weekend I would have a full report this afternoon.

 

Let's begin shall we.... All information effective July 27, 2015

 

The current New Flyer order was delayed because of wiring issues, that are reported to be fixed at this time. The Nova issues are all behind them, and they are now expected to accelerate delivery of the LFS order.

 

The Luminator Spectrum retrofit program is almost complete, with signs now installed on 279 buses.

 

Upcoming confirmations are effective as long as the current orders continue to be delivered on time and no issues arise.

 

CNG: 138 New Flyer XN40's with options for 125. Pilots expected by years end, with delivery running through 2016

 

Articulated: Order expected soon as a sole award for the base order, with a split on the table. The order will also be changed to 230 buses with options for 301

 

Diesel: 420 options to be exercised and split between Nova and New Flyer. As of right now in the meanwhile another immediate option for New Flyer is expected in the coming days, however it has yet to be confirmed. 

 

Lets get into this 420 Split. MTA has pushed the order back just a bit in order to ensure Nova does in fact get a piece of the pie. As I originally noted, unless there is a major change over the next 90 days NF gets the bulk. Some buses in the fleet may have alternative configurations for evaluation, but the bulk are as follows:

 

262 New Flyer XD40's, with Cummins/Allison, Luminator Spectrum front signs, Titan side and rear.

168 NovaBus LFS', with Cummins/ZF, Axion signs (NOT Luminator

 

 

Delivery schedule for these options also confirmed.

 

Pilots/Lead buses Q1 2016

60 buses Q2 2016

120 buses Q3 2016

220 buses Q4 2016 

this  400 not 420

262 New Flyer XD40's, with Cummins/Allison, Luminator Spectrum front signs, Titan side and rear.

168 NovaBus LFS', with Cummins/ZF, Axion signs (NOT Luminator

430 tatol

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this  400 not 420

262 New Flyer XD40's, with Cummins/Allison, Luminator Spectrum front signs, Titan side and rear.

168 NovaBus LFS', with Cummins/ZF, Axion signs (NOT Spectrum

430 tatol

 

Not sure exactly what you are saying, but that was a typo. It's 252 NF's. Not 262. Its a 60/40 split.

 

By the way, for those that did not know, Axion is actually owned by Luminator..... 

Edited by East New York

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Not sure exactly what you are saying, but that was a typo. It's 252 NF's. Not 262. Its a 60/40 split.

 

By the way, for those that did not know, Axion is actually owned by Luminator..... so my nath was off

sorry my math was off

 

this is ware i got 400

 

Pilots/Lead buses Q1 2016

60 buses Q2 2016

120 buses Q3 2016

220 buses Q4 2016

====

400vs430

Edited by limitednyc

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I only posted 2016 deliveries. The last of the buses are Nova's which will wrap up delivery in Q1 2017.

ok make sence, btw does this bid farewell to the rts's?

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ok make sence, btw does this bid farewell to the rts's?

Let's see... currently, the oldest buses (including retired ones) are.....

8752-9349 (598 buses)

9350-9699 (350 buses)

4900-5249 (350 buses)

6000-6349 (350 buses)

The newest 40 fters are......

7090-7482 (392 buses)

8090-8503 (414 buses)

Hopefully you are with me. Now, we have an extra 420 buses ordered. 392+414+420=1226 40 fters are ordered. 598+350+350+350=1648 buses are being retired.

This is not including the XD60s which are replacing some RTS. The XD60 order is:

5364-5491 (128 buses)

Now, minus 35 buses replacing the 1999 D60s, 93 buses will replace some RTS. For every 2 XD60s, 3 RTS are replaced. 92/2=46. What the 40s can't replace is about 422. 48*3=144. Adding that last XD60, that number adds to 145.

I'm almost done. Now, 1648-1226-145=277 buses left. This leaves the 1998-99 class of RTS barely touched, which had 350 buses ordered.

Long story short, this does not replace (all) of the RTS. The 5000's and some 4900's have a bit longer to live. (Unless the next artic order is delivered to NYCT by 2017.)

Any miscalculations, anyone let me know, but I think I'm spot on since math is one of my things. :D

Edited by MysteriousBtrain

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ok make sence, btw does this bid farewell to the rts's?

 

Yes, the bulk of them will be retired this year and next. 

 

Current plans call for 4900-5249, and a about 75 of the best 9500/9600's will last through 2017, with the last few to be retired by 2019.

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That's about 20 years...I thought the maximum life for a bus was 15 years.

 

Those 1996 RTSes are 19 years old right now. And some of the TMCs/GMCs hit 20. RTSes are tough buses.

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Let's see... currently, the oldest buses (including retired ones) are.....

8752-9349 (598 buses)

9350-9699 (350 buses)

4900-5249 (350 buses)

6000-6349 (350 buses)

The newest 40 fters are......

7090-7482 (392 buses)

8090-8503 (414 buses)

Hopefully you are with me. Now, we have an extra 420 buses ordered. 392+414+420=1226 40 fters are ordered. 598+350+350+350=1648 buses are being retired.

This is not including the XD60s which are replacing some RTS. The XD60 order is:

5364-5491 (128 buses)

Now, minus 35 buses replacing the 1999 D60s, 93 buses will replace some RTS. For every 2 XD60s, 3 RTS are replaced. 92/2=46. What the 40s can't replace is about 422. 48*3=144. Adding that last XD60, that number adds to 145.

I'm almost done. Now, 1648-1226-145=277 buses left. This leaves the 1998-99 class of RTS barely touched, which had 350 buses ordered.

Long story short, this does not replace (all) of the RTS. The 5000's and some 4900's have a bit longer to live. (Unless the next artic order is delivered to NYCT by 2017.)

Any miscalculations, anyone let me know, but I think I'm spot on since math is one of my things. :D

 

Um...remember, some have already been retired so you need to recalculate those figures.

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Um...remember, some have already been retired so you need to recalculate those figures.

Oh I took those dead ones in mind. Since some of the already retired buses were replaced by the new buses, I took both the old and new orders and looked at them very carefully. Yeah, a few were forced to be replaced due to other reasons, but I believe I got it close enough to say that around 280-300 (maybe a bit more) RTS buses are likely to be left after 2016 is done.

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Um...remember, some have already been retired so you need to recalculate those figures.

 

Yeah--many of the 1996 RTS series had been retired before any of the XD40/LFS order arrived. The remaining fleet was something near 160 buses, which had been sent through the overhaul program a year or two back. A handful of 6000s had also been retired before the delivery, too. That 1648 figure is prolly closer to 1150-1200, but I'm just spitballing. 

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Yeah--many of the 1996 RTS series had been retired before any of the XD40/LFS order arrived. The remaining fleet was something near 160 buses, which had been sent through the overhaul program a year or two back. A handful of 6000s had also been retired before the delivery, too. That 1648 figure is prolly closer to 1150-1200, but I'm just spitballing.

Oh that I did not know. Ok, maybe it is near the 1100's, but the 1998-99 RTS still got some life in them. Like ENY said, that order of 5000's and 4900's should be staying as well as the best of the 9500's and 9600's. So...... my estimate is around 400 buses then with ENY'S calculations. Edited by MysteriousBtrain

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The artic order intrigues me.  The way I get it, the 230 will almost replace the D60 HF's.  But 301 on an option if ordered of course, will replace the rest and then some.  Just speculating, but couldn't the "some" by used to convert more routes to articulated ones?  Those extra buses could allow 40 footers to be retired without actually being replaced by 40 footers one to one.

 

Routes in my backyard rumored to be converted to artic are the B38 and Q58.  Grand Ave. has facilities for artics so some routes would be swapped between FP and Grand.  But crew costs would increase for the Q58 as reliefs could no longer be made in front of the depot. Perhaps the contract could allow reliefs for swings be made and lunch taken in front of a "foreign" depot (FP) and they would pull in and out of Grand depot only at the beginning and end of their work day.  As for the B38, MANY jobs can be reconfigured like this: do 2 round trips via pull out Grand depot to Flushing/Metro to downtown to Seneca, to downtown, to Flushing/Metro then pull in to Grand depot.  Swing time is before or after these 2 trips.  Since Grand Ave. routes are interlined, to complete their work day they would do one trip on a line like the Q59, or B57, or B24, etc., taking of course into account which routes are remaining in the depot.

 

Am I dreaming too much or taking this too far? 

Edited by Bill from Maspeth
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The artic order intrigues me.  The way I get it, the 230 will almost replace the D60 HF's.  But 301 on an option if ordered of course, will replace the rest and then some.  Just speculating, but couldn't the "some" by used to convert more routes to articulated ones?  Those extra buses could allow 40 footers to be retired without actually being replaced by 40 footers one to one.

 

Routes in my backyard rumored to be converted to artic are the B38 and Q58.  Grand Ave. has facilities for artics so some routes would be swapped between FP and Grand.  But crew costs would increase for the Q58 as reliefs could no longer be made in front of the depot. Perhaps the contract could allow reliefs for swings be made and lunch taken in front of a "foreign" depot (FP) and they would pull in and out of Grand depot only at the beginning and end of their work day.  As for the B38, MANY jobs can be reconfigured like this: do 2 round trips via pull out Grand depot to Flushing/Metro to downtown to Seneca, to downtown, to Flushing/Metro then pull in to Grand depot.  Swing time is before or after these 2 trips.  Since Grand Ave. routes are interlined, to complete their work day they would do one trip on a line like the Q59, or B57, or B24, etc., taking of course into account which routes are remaining in the depot.

 

Am I dreaming too much or taking this too far? 

 

A lot of B/O's I've talked to out of CP have told me that there is more and more openness between depots in the last few years, and they think it is moving towards having buses be able to pull into any depot  at any time. Of course, with union issues this may be a pipe dream, but it certainly could help streamline some things 

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The artic order intrigues me. The way I get it, the 230 will almost replace the D60 HF's. But 301 on an option if ordered of course, will replace the rest and then some. Just speculating, but couldn't the "some" by used to convert more routes to articulated ones? Those extra buses could allow 40 footers to be retired without actually being replaced by 40 footers one to one.

 

Routes in my backyard rumored to be converted to artic are the B38 and Q58. Grand Ave. has facilities for artics so some routes would be swapped between FP and Grand. But crew costs would increase for the Q58 as reliefs could no longer be made in front of the depot. Perhaps the contract could allow reliefs for swings be made and lunch taken in front of a "foreign" depot (FP) and they would pull in and out of Grand depot only at the beginning and end of their work day. As for the B38, MANY jobs can be reconfigured like this: do 2 round trips via pull out Grand depot to Flushing/Metro to downtown to Seneca, to downtown, to Flushing/Metro then pull in to Grand depot. Swing time is before or after these 2 trips. Since Grand Ave. routes are interlined, to complete their work day they would do one trip on a line like the Q59, or B57, or B24, etc., taking of course into account which routes are remaining in the depot.

 

Am I dreaming too much or taking this too far?

Well, the artics could go (almost) anywhere, so it may be possible some routes may shift to other depots. Especially with the new Jamaica depot coming in soon, more Brooklyn and Queens routes could be using artics.

I originally posted this in the artics thread, but I may as well put it here too. Here's a list of possible routes that could be fully converted to artics by 2020 (not that all routes can/should use them):

Bx6

Bx28

Bx38

Bx36

M57

M31

B44

B46

B41

B82

B49

B6

B38

Q17

Q27

Q58

Q43

Q46

Q5

Q85

I have a feeling that option order will more likely have more buses hit Brooklyn and Queens than Manhattan and the Bronx.

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