Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 28, 2015 Share #26 Posted July 28, 2015 Well, the artics could go (almost) anywhere, so it may be possible some routes may shift to other depots. Especially with the new Jamaica depot coming in soon, more Brooklyn and Queens routes could be using artics. I originally posted this in the artics thread, but I may as well put it here too. Here's a list of possible routes that could be fully converted to artics by 2020 (not that all routes can/should use them): Bx6 Bx28 Bx38 Bx36 M57 M31 B44 B46 B41 B82 B49 B6 B38 Q17 Q27 Q58 Q43 Q46 Q5 Q85 I have a feeling that option order will more likely have more buses hit Brooklyn and Queens than Manhattan and the Bronx. If they added artics on the B49, I'm sure they would try to cut service even more. It's amazing how pathetic that line is now compared to when I lived back in South Brooklyn. The B49 was on the best routes. If the B1 or B4 were a mess, you could count on the B49. Now I'd rather take my chances with the B4 over the B49. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysteriousBtrain Posted July 28, 2015 Share #27 Posted July 28, 2015 If they added artics on the B49, I'm sure they would try to cut service even more. It's amazing how pathetic that line is now compared to when I lived back in South Brooklyn. The B49 was on the best routes. If the B1 or B4 were a mess, you could count on the B49. Now I'd rather take my chances with the B4 over the B49.The B49 borrows artics from the B44 SBS occasionally, so the B49 is definitely going towards that direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 28, 2015 Share #28 Posted July 28, 2015 The B49 borrows artics from the B44 SBS occasionally, so the B49 is definitely going towards that direction. Which is a good thing in terms of having more room, but a bad thing in terms of the headways. I think they want to keep service frequencies around 15 minutes or so, and having artics would allow them to do just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted July 28, 2015 Share #29 Posted July 28, 2015 Was this when the B49 was out of UP when you lived in South Brooklyn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLX9304 Posted July 28, 2015 Share #30 Posted July 28, 2015 and now the question is: what depots will these new buses end up in? I was in town between Downtown Brooklyn and Midtown Manhattan and MJQ do need newbies, The only ones that do look recent are artic Novas on the M14, M23 & M79. Yesterday, I saw 4924 & 4928 from JA, both running on the M31, took a trip on the M12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLX9304 Posted July 28, 2015 Share #31 Posted July 28, 2015 Oh that I did not know. Ok, maybe it is near the 1100's, but the 1998-99 RTS still got some life in them. Like ENY said, that order of 5000's and 4900's should be staying as well as the best of the 9500's and 9600's. So...... my estimate is around 400 buses then with ENY'S calculations. I guess he meant 8752-9349. Not too many of those left out there. Grand Ave has the bulk of the 9300s & 9400s that is still in service Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Union Tpke Posted July 28, 2015 Share #32 Posted July 28, 2015 Are there pictures of what the buses will look like or is it too early? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysteriousBtrain Posted July 28, 2015 Share #33 Posted July 28, 2015 Are there pictures of what the buses will look like or is it too early?Most likely the same buses we are getting now, but don't quote me on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanrailerz Posted July 29, 2015 Share #34 Posted July 29, 2015 What's the approx lifetime of a NYC bus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetSMART45 Posted July 29, 2015 Share #35 Posted July 29, 2015 What's the approx lifetime of a NYC bus? Don't quote me on this, BUT ... If Toronto and others can make buses last close to- or exceeding-20 years, then what does that say about Federal "standards" (of 12-years/500,000 miles)??? Windsor, ON has old GMC/Nova Classics which still operate on regular routes, AFAIK. Kudos given where they're deserved--MTA keeping Nova RTSs in service is a MAJOR accomplishment, given the NYC operation conditions. IMHO rather ride a RTS than any low-floor. RTS wins hands-down across the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyer 230 Posted July 29, 2015 Share #36 Posted July 29, 2015 What's the approx lifetime of a NYC bus?About 15 years some retire later than 15 years like the 1996/1997 RTS and older TMC and GMC buses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T J Trainman Posted July 29, 2015 Share #37 Posted July 29, 2015 Well said Det Smart!! RTSs all the way!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theaveragejoe Posted July 29, 2015 Share #38 Posted July 29, 2015 Don't quote me on this, BUT ... If Toronto and others can make buses last close to- or exceeding-20 years, then what does that say about Federal "standards" (of 12-years/500,000 miles)??? Windsor, ON has old GMC/Nova Classics which still operate on regular routes, AFAIK. Kudos given where they're deserved--MTA keeping Nova RTSs in service is a MAJOR accomplishment, given the NYC operation conditions. IMHO rather ride a RTS than any low-floor. RTS wins hands-down across the board. Classics are done in Windsor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share #39 Posted July 29, 2015 What's the approx lifetime of a NYC bus? It all depends on the model. GMC/TMC/Nova's generally average 16-18 years, with some hitting 20. The Orion CNG's are leaving right at 12 because their MDBF is higher than MTA anticipated. The Orion V's are retiring at 16 years, and only because they are rusting severely. If it wasn't for that they would still be around for another year. Don't quote me on this, BUT ... If Toronto and others can make buses last close to- or exceeding-20 years, then what does that say about Federal "standards" (of 12-years/500,000 miles)??? Windsor, ON has old GMC/Nova Classics which still operate on regular routes, AFAIK. Kudos given where they're deserved--MTA keeping Nova RTSs in service is a MAJOR accomplishment, given the NYC operation conditions. IMHO rather ride a RTS than any low-floor. RTS wins hands-down across the board. Any good maintenance team can make a bus last if it is built well, and they are well trained on the platform and configuration. It's a known fact that GM based platforms have out performed anything made to date. The federal standard of 12yr/500k miles was put in place to ensure that a bus would hold up for an operator with no significant issues for at least that long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaimlerBuses Posted July 29, 2015 Share #40 Posted July 29, 2015 Don't quote me on this, BUT ... If Toronto and others can make buses last close to- or exceeding-20 years, then what does that say about Federal "standards" (of 12-years/500,000 miles)??? Windsor, ON has old GMC/Nova Classics which still operate on regular routes, AFAIK. Kudos given where they're deserved--MTA keeping Nova RTSs in service is a MAJOR accomplishment, given the NYC operation conditions. IMHO rather ride a RTS than any low-floor. RTS wins hands-down across the board. It says nothing - the federal standard is simply a minimum requirement that the bus has to operate before being retired. If you really want to sink money into them. Part of the reason GM Fishbowl/Classic buses lasted on the road up here is because they had been rebuilt/refurbished several times during their lives. Funding for replacement buses is also not as plentiful as it is in the USA. The Orion VII CNGs are another example of this. The Orion VII has a frame that *could* last 18-20 years, but even then the mechanical components will need to be overhauled and/or replaced several more times for that to happen. Combined with the CNG tanks expiring at 15 years of age (in addition to high MDBF) MTA has probably concluded it is not worth sinking more money into the buses just to get a extra 2-3 years out of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted July 29, 2015 Share #41 Posted July 29, 2015 I'm just waiting for the depot assignments ENY is more than likely gonna get a piece when the time comes as they are making the depot artic-ready. Flatbush is another contender with the B46 SBS coming soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted July 29, 2015 Share #42 Posted July 29, 2015 ENY is more than likely gonna get a piece when the time comes as they are making the depot artic-ready. Flatbush is another contender with the B46 SBS coming soon. I can't wait to see these on the B15 and 82. I'm just waiting for BP to get theirs...I hope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted July 29, 2015 Share #43 Posted July 29, 2015 I can't wait to see these on the B15 and 82. I'm just waiting for BP to get theirs...I hope Baisley is still in track for theirs...right after NF sorts that issue out and JFK gets theirs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayJay85 Posted July 31, 2015 Share #44 Posted July 31, 2015 Yes, the bulk of them will be retired this year and next. Current plans call for 4900-5249, and a about 75 of the best 9500/9600's will last through 2017, with the last few to be retired by 2019. I guess maybe 4900-5249 will be about 18-20 years old when they retired, it seems like Brooklyn Division will be last place when the 4900-5249 retired correct me if I am wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysteriousBtrain Posted July 31, 2015 Share #45 Posted July 31, 2015 I guess maybe 4900-5249 will be about 18-20 years old when they retired, it seems like Brooklyn Division will be last place when the 4900-5249 retired correct me if I am wrong.Quill has all the 5200's so Quill will most likely have the absolute last of the RTS, as well as the mentioned Brooklyn depot, and MAYBE Jamaica too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lennyj17 Posted August 2, 2015 Share #46 Posted August 2, 2015 Take it to the Bank, Quill WILL have RTSs until the bitter end, until the wheels fall off.... I'm even willing to bet the M42 will be the last route to see the RTS in regular revenue service. It will be historic, the RTS is a NYC icon even more than fishbowls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV9218 Posted August 2, 2015 Share #47 Posted August 2, 2015 Quill has a problem, which is that there have been no reasonable replacements to the 9-ft RTSes proposed for the 66/72 crosstowns yet. Until something gets worked out, that's an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyer 230 Posted August 2, 2015 Share #48 Posted August 2, 2015 Quill has a problem, which is that there have been no reasonable replacements to the 9-ft RTSes proposed for the 66/72 crosstowns yet. Until something gets worked out, that's an issue.So I'm guessing the LFS is still too high for those underpasses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Culver Posted August 2, 2015 Share #49 Posted August 2, 2015 Quill has a problem, which is that there have been no reasonable replacements to the 9-ft RTSes proposed for the 66/72 crosstowns yet. Until something gets worked out, that's an issue. With those central park overpasses the MTA will eventually need NFI or Nova to give them some 40-footers with AC installed in the rear and any and all roof fairings removed. That being said, it'll likely be NFI's XD40, since the Nova can't just lose that large rear hump. From what I understood, the LFS's rear hump is used for engine cooling and whatnot and is part of the overall engineering of the bus. NFI can just install the AC in the back and get rid of the fairings around where top-mounted AC would be, and Nova would have to redesign. The XD40 without the fairings is probably somewhere around 114 or 115 inches, which should let it fit under those overpasses. Either that or Nova produces an all-electric model that doesn't need the rear hump and lets them have a flat roof with the AC in the rear window space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaimlerBuses Posted August 2, 2015 Share #50 Posted August 2, 2015 With those central park overpasses the MTA will eventually need NFI or Nova to give them some 40-footers with AC installed in the rear and any and all roof fairings removed. That being said, it'll likely be NFI's XD40, since the Nova can't just lose that large rear hump. From what I understood, the LFS's rear hump is used for engine cooling and whatnot and is part of the overall engineering of the bus. NFI can just install the AC in the back and get rid of the fairings around where top-mounted AC would be, and Nova would have to redesign. The XD40 without the fairings is probably somewhere around 114 or 115 inches, which should let it fit under those overpasses. Either that or Nova produces an all-electric model that doesn't need the rear hump and lets them have a flat roof with the AC in the rear window space. Unfortunately, this is a lot more complicated that you make it sound. the SCR system (exhaust after treatment system) that is mandatory for EPA compliance is located in the rear of the bus where the A/C used to be....that's why the A/C is on the roof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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