Announcement NYCT Bus orders through 2019

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I am talking about local buses, and as I said and Cait Sith stated, some just don't care or prefer high floor buses. Namely the B6. Passengers equally prefer the RTS and Xcelsior, but we're not too fond of the Orion's or the LFS'. If you get out enough you will see for yourself how passengers pass up low floors... Even the M42. You will see older people heading for an RTS over a hybrid. MTA only retired the 8600 series RTS buses because they had too. They would be 21 years old now, and to date was one of the best series of buses the TA ever had with 99% of the buses still in great condition at retirement.

Eh I haven't used the B6 in years going back to when I lived in Brooklyn and traveled from Midwood to Bensonhurst to hang out with friends.  At that time the B6 was all RTS. I do recall years ago passengers complaining about the low floor buses being too small when they first came out, so it makes sense.

[Joel Up Front]

Why are the MPG's so inefficient compared to a car? They should try to increase the MPG so that there could be less of a cost for fuel.

The best answer I can give you is that the lighter-duty the engine, the better the MPG.  Buses are still subject to stop-and-go traffic, which cuts down on the mileage.

[DetSMART45]

@DetSMART - You also have to remember that even though maintenance has always played a part in DDOT's woes, drivers and upper management are to blame just as much. Drivers would not write up service problems, have accidents they didn't report, disappear off routes and take unauthorized breaks.... I have over 50 examples over a 20 year period. Plus I'm a mechanic so I know what to look and listen for.

 

One day some years back it was about 92 degrees. I was on a Nothland bound 16, RTS #3806. I told the driver that he needed to cycle his A/C on those trash Sutrak units. If he didn't, it was going to continue to drain all the power from the bus and breakdown. He said that what he wanted.... 10 minutes later, we had no power pulling out of the stop.. Ran out of fuel one time on a D40LF on the 32..... Side swiped a FedEx truck and kept going on the 22 once. Driver pulled up smoking a cigarette on the 53 because her leader disappeared and she wanted to leave on time and didn't get a break..... DDOT's issues have come from so may places it's a shame.... And aren't they only running with 1 garage now because they sold Shoemaker, and Coolidge burned down?? Heard a bus caught on fire inside and torched a couple others with it before they could get the rest out safely.

 

Thanks ENY for the great info.  Don't wish this thread to veer off, but a few comments:

 

Not that I find any of what you elaborated on to be surprising at all.  Things haven't changed, especially since the Mayor of Detroit got SMART on its feet back in 1995, and the current DDOT director, Dan Dirks, was his successor.  Operators are on a "silent strike" now, basically doing whatever they want, because they're miffed about cuts they took because of the bankruptcy.  SMART operator filling in on Easter (Oakland driver filling in for a panicked Macomb because of call-offs) running a 610 had a DDOT operator riding, explaining about the slowdown when a customer was complaining about DDOT service to the SMART operator.

 

Fire at Coolidge was in 2009 and was "suspicious" because it happened the day after the city talked about major service cuts.  Also DFD said the sprinkler system was "out of order".  Coolidge was supposedly closed in January 2012 for "renovations" -- no idea if anything's been done.  Shoemaker is supposedly up and running.  Don't know if they're still doing heavy maintenance at DDOT HQ anymore, since that used to be the Eastchester (graveyard) of the system.

 

Ironically -- and this should be of interest to MTA users here -- DDOT in the late 1990s still had GMC RTSes and GM Classics on the road using old rollsigns.  But before you say, "Oh yeah, we did too", the RTSes were beaten to bits.  First flip-dots I remember seeing were on the 1995(?)-forward New Flyer high-floors, and those were also the first major fleet additions with upholstered seats and A/C (Neoplan artics were I think the first, but IIRC there were only under 10, and were out of service within mere years).  Far cry from the GMC hard-plastic vandal-resistant seats in diaper-brown/orange.  The Classics were in surprisingly good condition (rode many to Eastern Market on the 40), the RTSes, not so much (one on the 38 going downtown miraculously hit 40mph max on the freeway with noise sounding like the engine was going to drop out of the bus).

 

ANYWAY, back to the thread topic:

Bus MPG is going to be consistent between 4-7, unless you're running highway consistently, and even then, it's not anything to write home about.  Altoona test results have pegged this range as "the norm" for quite awhile now.  One of the reasons I asked on the CNG thread if doing CNG (even diesel-electric) was really truly worth it given the extra costs not only initially but over the lifespan.

 

Another far-flung "fantasy" option for the clearance issue would be Mercedes-Benz Citaros, which top out at 10.27 height with A/C (3130mm according to their specs).  Now before you throw rotten produce at me, YES I know that MB doesn't produce here, isn't part of the Buy America funding, doesn't really want to come here, but with MTA's "connections" and status/reputation, could start the wheels in motion.  And it could push the current manufacturers to design/build better products.  MB is known for having the same reputation with their buses as their cars.  BUT, as I say, just an idea thrown up against the wall.

[FLX9304]

With this split order, NF's will have to use the 78xx and 79xx while Novabus uses 85xx, 86xx & 87xx, if there's any room. or spare 9000s

[NewFlyer 230]

With this split order, NF's will have to use the 78xx and 79xx while Novabus uses 85xx, 86xx & 87xx, if there's any room. or spare 9000s

Which buses are you talking about?

The ones that are being delivered now already have set numbers.

[S78 via Hylan]

Which buses are you talking about?

The ones that are being delivered now already have set numbers.

I think he's referring to the option order.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

All I wanna know is when are they going to start getting rid of those old MCIs? The new Prevosts continue to come in and I don't see a real decrease in those old MCI buses.   I'm itching to see them go bye-bye....

[Cait Sith]

All I wanna know is when are they going to start getting rid of those old MCIs? The new Prevosts continue to come in and I don't see a real decrease in those old MCI buses.   I'm itching to see them go bye-bye....

Better sit back, have a drink and wait....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Better sit back, have a drink and wait....

Apparently several of them... Getting rid of those buses is like waiting for several coats of paint to dry...

[IAlam]

wait is MTAB getting prevost?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

wait is MTAB getting prevost?

No, they don't need new buses...

[Fresh Pond]

wait is MTAB getting prevost?

No

[Via Garibaldi 8]

No

I must say that the Riverdale express buses look great... Some of these buses are now 10 years old and they look pretty good... No SI express bus could look like that after 10 years.

[Fresh Pond]

I must say that the Riverdale express buses look great... Some of these buses are now 10 years old and they look pretty good... No SI express bus could look like that after 10 years.

The MTA Bus units are getting overhauled

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The MTA Bus units are getting overhauled

I know that, but even without the overhauls they still looked pretty good before then, esp. in comparison to SI express buses.

[MHV9218]

The MTA Bus units are getting overhauled

 

Not externally? Not a drop of new paint has hit most of those MCIs. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Not externally? Not a drop of new paint has hit most of those MCIs. 

Most of them don't really need paint jobs because the express buses are washed by hand. 

[46Dover]

Staten Island has 2600 series Prevosts now (yuck)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Staten Island has 2600 series Prevosts now (yuck)

lol... I actually like these newer ones... They made tweaks that make them more attractive.  For starters, the logo is now correct, instead of the logo that looked like some kid it.   Additionally, the bus destination signage looks MUCH BETTER, and they put the blue stripe back.  These buses will not however look good without a paint job, so hopefully when they have to be repainted, most of them will be taken to Zerega where they do them the proper way with the bus numbers, logos and so on done professionally.

[Cait Sith]

Unless the RFP got dropped, MTA Bus is due for 60 or so new Express Buses.

[Future ENY OP]

Unless the RFP got dropped, MTA Bus is due for 60 or so new Express Buses.

MCI's or Prevosts.

[46Dover]

lol... I actually like these newer ones... They made tweaks that make them more attractive.  For starters, the logo is now correct, instead of the logo that looked like some kid it.   Additionally, the bus destination signage looks MUCH BETTER, and they put the blue stripe back.  These buses will not however look good without a paint job, so hopefully when they have to be repainted, most of them will be taken to Zerega where they do them the proper way with the bus numbers, logos and so on done professionally.

Those original logos on the first models were hideous, I'll give you that. It gives meaning to the phrase "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Unless the RFP got dropped, MTA Bus is due for 60 or so new Express Buses.

Since there's only an RFP out, it's too early to say who can get it and which depot or depots will get the new buses.  I imagine it's between Prevost and MCI though no?

[Fresh Pond]

Since there's only an RFP out, it's too early to say who can get it and which depot or depots will get the new buses. I imagine it's between Prevost and MCI though no?

That's about the only 2 qualified builders for OTR coach buses.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

That's about the only 2 qualified builders for OTR coach buses.

I figured as much... Those are only two commuter buses I could tolerate anyway.  Those Van Hool buses look narrow and are quite ugly.  I hope MCI gets the order. I'm still not sold on the Prevosts even with the better look.  The interior looks cheap and the seats aren't nearly as comfortable, not to mention that reclining on those buses becomes a real chore unnecessarily.  II personally don't think those buses can take a beating like the MCIs can and have.  They're going to require more upkeep in the long run to keep them looking decent. It's also annoying that the damn outlets don't seem to work on them half of the time. It's always hit or miss when I'm on the X27 coming from Bay Ridge and then when they do work, the charge is SOOOO slow.  You're lucky to get any sort of charge on the phone at all.  Unimpressed to say the least...