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Broken SBS machines


Via Garibaldi 8

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If anyone tries to make a living stealing from the SBS coin machines, good luck to them lol. I rarely ever see anyone use them. I'd be very curious to see usage statistics released by the MTA

I would have to agree with that. I think I once saw what looked like an older couple use it.  Didn't look like your usual type that would use it either.  In other words, the female looked like she had just enough change for the bus and nothing more (looked like a crackhead quite frankly).

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This system is pathetic.  Even with the refill Metrocards, it still sucks.  I should be able to put more than just one refill on my card if I so choose to. It is such a PITA when I decide to stay home and don't feel like going to the city just to refill my card.  There's only one store in Riverdale that sells Metrocards, and they only take cash, which means schlepping to the bank (in the opposite direction), then coming back around to the store (if they have any), otherwise, a long walk to downhill to the 242nd street subway to use those crappy MVM machines (three of them there, but you're lucky if one of them works), and the other stations (238th has just one I believe which can also be out, which leaves 231st which has two at the most).  I just think overall the (MTA) does a TERRIBLE job of maintaining all types of machines.  For example, there are a few MVM machines in Grand Central where you get Metro-North tickets whose credit card readers didn't work for MONTHS on end.  I don't understand how (MTA) workers check out those machines but don't check to ensure that the ENTIRE machine works.  Idiocy at its finest.  I also wonder why they have so many Metro-North vending machines at Grand Central, when it's likely that only a few of them will be used anyway given how lazy most people are.  They will likely use the closest machines to the entrance.

 

I'm all for enforcement of the fare on the SBS lines, but it's really inexcusable to have numerous stops where none of the machines are working.  

 

We're using a system from 1997. Consider yourself lucky that we're not still hauling bags of tokens like certain other cities. Once the MTA moves to smartcards/credit cards/mobile payment, expect significantly easier use and less maintenance problems (mostly because the MTA will probably reduce the amount of machines; they don't want to be in the fare collection business anymore, and would rather have payments handled by a third-party.)

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We're using a system from 1997. Consider yourself lucky that we're not still hauling bags of tokens like certain other cities. Once the MTA moves to smartcards/credit cards/mobile payment, expect significantly easier use and less maintenance problems (mostly because the MTA will probably reduce the amount of machines; they don't want to be in the fare collection business anymore, and would rather have payments handled by a third-party.)

Heh, it's hard to believe that it could be any worse.  I had a terrible time getting a new Metrocard this morning.  The store was all out so that meant walking all the way to 242nd street for one, and of course two out of the three machines were busted.  Didn't even think to get cash out, but I couldn't get my card to work.  Had to call the card company and go through a whole process just to get an express bus card.  Luckily I had plenty of time otherwise I would've missed the bus that I wanted to get.

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From a brief chat with one of the techs whom fixes the machines, he told me that it's usually the paper feeder that leads to a large number of the outages.

Thanks for the info! It's kind of ironic that with the whole recycling trend, we are printing more and more paper between the SBS machines and muni meters

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Thanks for the info! It's kind of ironic that with the whole recycling trend, we are printing more and more paper between the SBS machines and muni meters

Not really too hard to believe, since so many processes require "proof."  And in the case of parking meters or the SBS, if you've got a dispute, you'd better have a receipt.

 

In the case of SBS, why doesn't the MTA equip eagle team members with handheld scanners to swipe the Metrocard and see payment times when questioning riders?  Audit trail is also there in case of disputes.  Cash users should be the only ones needing a receipt.

 

Due to the insight shared by 40MntVrn above, why doesn't the MTA service the machines with new paper on a scheduled basis?  Transaction counts are somewhere, leading to knowing how many users at each location, and it's not really brain-busting math to know how many transactions you'll have at the average receipt length per roll before you're out.

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Not really too hard to believe, since so many processes require "proof." And in the case of parking meters or the SBS, if you've got a dispute, you'd better have a receipt.

 

In the case of SBS, why doesn't the MTA equip eagle team members with handheld scanners to swipe the Metrocard and see payment times when questioning riders? Audit trail is also there in case of disputes. Cash users should be the only ones needing a receipt.

 

Due to the insight shared by 40MntVrn above, why doesn't the MTA service the machines with new paper on a scheduled basis? Transaction counts are somewhere, leading to knowing how many users at each location, and it's not really brain-busting math to know how many transactions you'll have at the average receipt length per roll before you're out.

I think the sad truth is that the MTA has no incentive to make those advancements. The more broken machines there are, and the lack of handheld scanners gives more opportunities for tickets to be given, which can make the MTA a few bucks and jusify the salaries of the eagle team

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I think the sad truth is that the MTA has no incentive to make those advancements. The more broken machines there are, and the lack of handheld scanners gives more opportunities for tickets to be given, which can make the MTA a few bucks and jusify the salaries of the eagle team

Yep... I was thinking about that too... Probably why so many people were annoyed...

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Not really too hard to believe, since so many processes require "proof."  And in the case of parking meters or the SBS, if you've got a dispute, you'd better have a receipt.

 

In the case of SBS, why doesn't the MTA equip eagle team members with handheld scanners to swipe the Metrocard and see payment times when questioning riders?  Audit trail is also there in case of disputes.  Cash users should be the only ones needing a receipt.

 

Due to the insight shared by 40MntVrn above, why doesn't the MTA service the machines with new paper on a scheduled basis?  Transaction counts are somewhere, leading to knowing how many users at each location, and it's not really brain-busting math to know how many transactions you'll have at the average receipt length per roll before you're out.

 

Is that something that can even be done with the MetroCard technology? It wasn't intended for these purposes in 1997.

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Not really too hard to believe, since so many processes require "proof."  And in the case of parking meters or the SBS, if you've got a dispute, you'd better have a receipt.

 

In the case of SBS, why doesn't the MTA equip eagle team members with handheld scanners to swipe the Metrocard and see payment times when questioning riders?  Audit trail is also there in case of disputes.  Cash users should be the only ones needing a receipt.

 

Due to the insight shared by 40MntVrn above, why doesn't the MTA service the machines with new paper on a scheduled basis?  Transaction counts are somewhere, leading to knowing how many users at each location, and it's not really brain-busting math to know how many transactions you'll have at the average receipt length per roll before you're out.

 

Handheld scanners would cost hundreds or possibly thousands more than paper receipts. Not only that, but there is no point in investing in something like that when the entire fare payment system will be replaced in 2017, addressing most of the concerns presented in this thread.

 

Another con would be the fact that this would take even more time to individually scan MetroCards, thus defeating the entire purpose of making SBS a speedy service. 80-90% of SBS uses have MetroCards, and scanning each of these upon exiting the bus, then going onto the bus to check the rest is not feasible. Especially when buses are packed during rush periods.

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Handheld scanners would definitely cost less than paper receipts. Paper runs out and has to be refilled. Also paper jams can be the blame for many of the machine outages at SBS stops that result in fares not be collected for several days or weeks. This is why I believe ridership of the SBS routes is understated in the MTA's numbers but that's another story. The long-term expense of extra machine maintenance because of the use of outdated technology (shitty ass paper) is a lot more than the costs of handheld scanners which would only be held by Eagle Team personnel. The Eagle Team is not that large where handheld scanners to make their jobs easier would break the bank especially given the paper receipts are not a fool-proof POP model (riders can use the receipts of those who got off before them) and they have to be looked at by human eyes to be validated (which slows down the inspection process).

 

In addition you can have a scanner collect the fare on a Metrocard that shows itself to be an unlimited or pay-per-ride with sufficient funds which was not validated at an SBS stop reducing the number of riders who are fined. Couples or families who combine their fares onto one pay per ride can have a card scanned to validate each fare instead of each person showing their receipt. Such technology would be easier to integrate into a new contactless fare system where card readers are placed on the doors of the bus and the inspection can consist of just making riders re-tap for validation (the scanners would be a back up in case of any glitch with the door bound readers). Inspecting paper tickets is actually more time consuming than scanning Metrocards and less productive in terms of catching farebeaters. 

 

The problem with many people these days (the MTA unfortunately being one of them) is that they're always thinking about saving a dollar in the short term and not about the extra dollars that will have to be made up over time for what they saved. 

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Handheld scanners would definitely cost less than paper receipts. Paper runs out and has to be refilled. Also paper jams can be the blame for many of the machine outages at SBS stops that result in fares not be collected for several days or weeks. This is why I believe ridership of the SBS routes is understated in the MTA's numbers but that's another story. The long-term expense of extra machine maintenance because of the use of outdated technology (shitty ass paper) is a lot more than the costs of handheld scanners which would only be held by Eagle Team personnel. The Eagle Team is not that large where handheld scanners to make their jobs easier would break the bank especially given the paper receipts are not a fool-proof POP model (riders can use the receipts of those who got off before them) and they have to be looked at by human eyes to be validated (which slows down the inspection process).

 

In addition you can have a scanner collect the fare on a Metrocard that shows itself to be an unlimited or pay-per-ride with sufficient funds which was not validated at an SBS stop reducing the number of riders who are fined. Couples or families who combine their fares onto one pay per ride can have a card scanned to validate each fare instead of each person showing their receipt. Such technology would be easier to integrate into a new contactless fare system where card readers are placed on the doors of the bus and the inspection can consist of just making riders re-tap for validation (the scanners would be a back up in case of any glitch with the door bound readers). Inspecting paper tickets is actually more time consuming than scanning Metrocards and less productive in terms of catching farebeaters. 

 

The problem with many people these days (the MTA unfortunately being one of them) is that they're always thinking about saving a dollar in the short term and not about the extra dollars that will have to be made up over time for what they saved. 

Agreeing with the above.

 

But here's a nagging question I've forgotten to include:

How much of SBS is being subsidized by FTA and NY/NYCDOT funds designed to "encourage" BRT?  It's been mentioned in passing in other threads but not fully disclosed.  If Fed funds, especially, are available, all MTA has to do is tell the Feds, "Hey we need scanners to check payment, otherwise our BRT isn't really as efficient ... how about some cash to do that?"  And with the way DOT (especially NYC) wants SBS/BRT to be successful (or else they have a lot of egg on their face), they'd probably be keen on the idea as well.

 

As I've said before, if the machines are tied in to the Metrocard payment/recharging system, they must certainly be able to be remotely polled for data.  How hard is it to see when they don't have activity for a period of time or how many customers have used them within system parameters?  Otherwise, if customers aren't dipping the fareboxes, how does MTA know how ridership is per route?

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I totally disagree on the handheld scanner thing.... Neither of you gentleman know how the MTA procurement process works, and I will state again that it will cost hundreds or thousands to procure these scanners... MTA would have to create an RFP, then replace the damn things again by 2017 when the new fare payment system goes online. A complete waste of money.

 

Then you say in the long term it will cost more to maintain the machines. How? They are going to be replaced/modified as well... So these may be great suggestions you both have, however, the logistics of such a change do not outweighs the costs... It's a complete waste of money to upgrade a system that's going to be completely replaced and obsolete within the next 60 months...

 

I don't totally disagree with the handhelds, yet this would only be a wise decision once the entire system has been replaced...

 

Then we can discuss handheld scanners... Until then, it's not feasible. Does nothing to reduce dwell times, and will cost more in the long run as they would have to be replaced as well, this effectively forcing MTA to shell out more money...

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I totally disagree on the handheld scanner thing.... Neither of you gentleman know how the MTA procurement process works, and I will state again that it will cost hundreds or thousands to procure these scanners... MTA would have to create an RFP, then replace the damn things again by 2017 when the new fare payment system goes online. A complete waste of money.

 

Then you say in the long term it will cost more to maintain the machines. How? They are going to be replaced/modified as well... So these may be great suggestions you both have, however, the logistics of such a change do not outweighs the costs... It's a complete waste of money to upgrade a system that's going to be completely replaced and obsolete within the next 60 months...

 

I don't totally disagree with the handhelds, yet this would only be a wise decision once the entire system has been replaced...

 

Then we can discuss handheld scanners... Until then, it's not feasible. Does nothing to reduce dwell times, and will cost more in the long run as they would have to be replaced as well, this effectively forcing MTA to shell out more money...

As someone who strongly believes in reusing and recycling, I am appalled at the amount of waste this SBS service has.  I used the M86 today for one or two blocks uphill to get to the BxM1 because I had bags and it was a sauna outside and had to waste paper just for that.  Whatever new payment service they implement needs to be more environmentally friendly.  They're supposed to be all about being environmentally sound and they are far from it using all of this paper just for "proof of payment".  Absolutely disgusting. If they can't use a process that involves less waste before 2017, they should at least find a way to use less paper for these receipts.  Use smaller print or make the spacing smaller on the paper to require the use of less ink and paper.

 

 

 

Handheld scanners would definitely cost less than paper receipts. Paper runs out and has to be refilled. Also paper jams can be the blame for many of the machine outages at SBS stops that result in fares not be collected for several days or weeks. This is why I believe ridership of the SBS routes is understated in the MTA's numbers but that's another story. The long-term expense of extra machine maintenance because of the use of outdated technology (shitty ass paper) is a lot more than the costs of handheld scanners which would only be held by Eagle Team personnel. The Eagle Team is not that large where handheld scanners to make their jobs easier would break the bank especially given the paper receipts are not a fool-proof POP model (riders can use the receipts of those who got off before them) and they have to be looked at by human eyes to be validated (which slows down the inspection process).

 

In addition you can have a scanner collect the fare on a Metrocard that shows itself to be an unlimited or pay-per-ride with sufficient funds which was not validated at an SBS stop reducing the number of riders who are fined. Couples or families who combine their fares onto one pay per ride can have a card scanned to validate each fare instead of each person showing their receipt. Such technology would be easier to integrate into a new contactless fare system where card readers are placed on the doors of the bus and the inspection can consist of just making riders re-tap for validation (the scanners would be a back up in case of any glitch with the door bound readers). Inspecting paper tickets is actually more time consuming than scanning Metrocards and less productive in terms of catching farebeaters. 

 

The problem with many people these days (the MTA unfortunately being one of them) is that they're always thinking about saving a dollar in the short term and not about the extra dollars that will have to be made up over time for what they saved. 

Not only that but the whole payment process is outdated, wasteful and terrible for the environment. I often see people trying to recycle their Metrocards, only to realize that those Metrocard slots found on the side Metrocard reading machines don't have anything to hold the old cards, thus they fall on the floor.  I reuse mine until I'm ready for a fresh one and then I cut up the old one.  I would like to see something far more environmentally friendly in the near future.

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The current issue is that it doesn't seem like it's at all possible to make a handlheld Metrocard scanner for the purpose of seeing if you paid, because the Metrocard doesn't really keep around that information. The only thing on the Metrocard is your balance, your time, and any free transfer you may have, but not everyone taking the SBS is going to have that.

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Sometimes M15 SBS MetroCard Fare Collectors at 126th St Depot has issue which sometimes don't read MetroCard or Reduce Fare Card.

I used an unlimited card in that machine it couldn't read it and then I tried to use it on another machine, and it gave me an error message, also including local buses and the subway. I was mad scared cause I was far from home I ended up have to take the M103 to the Q60 and finally Q20 to get home that day, because the B/O were nice enough to let me on after the card didn't read. 

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