Officials to restore express F train service to Coney Island

[Snowblock]

The thing I find most funny is that the people demanding express service are probably the Carrolls Garden asshats who are going to end up with REDUCED service, but only have a mentality that "express = better" not even realizing that they live at local stops.

[Around the Horn]

The thing I find most funny is that the people demanding express service are probably the Carrolls Garden asshats who are going to end up with REDUCED service, but only have a mentality that "express = better" not even realizing that they live at local stops.

That's my thoughts exactly...

[Priincenene]

This was the plan all along for when the Culver Viaduct was finished, and the only thing that scuttled it was the being replaced by the .

The best thing to do is bring back the , extend it to Kings Hwy or Coney along with the Express that way theres Local service during rush. can't do it since it wouldn't have enough trains to send out to Kings Hwy, Coney Island, etc. If the were still here some Jamaica Yard sets can be sent out to Bklyn as the after 2 Av DURING RUSH HR to serve those that use Local stops. If that happens then the gets its old route but not predicting anything. Non-rush hours as its original route from Forest Hills-71st to 2nd Av.

 

Thats why I keep mentioning the old routes! It would've been great if the old 2001 routes were still here that way there is another line to serve Local riders. My best guess is that some trains run Local and some run Express. This would be a great discussion since theres already a packed in Qns.

[R3216068E]

The best thing to do is bring back the , extend it to Kings Hwy or Coney along with the Express that way theres Local service during rush. can't do it since it wouldn't have enough trains to send out to Kings Hwy, Coney Island, etc. If the were still here some Jamaica Yard sets can be sent out to Bklyn as the after 2 Av DURING RUSH HR to serve those that use Local stops. If that happens then the gets its old route but not predicting anything. Non-rush hours as its original route from Forest Hills-71st to 2nd Av.

 

Thats why I keep mentioning the old routes! It would've been great if the old 2001 routes were still here that way there is another line to serve Local riders. My best guess is that some trains run Local and some run Express. This would be a great discussion since theres already a packed in Qns.

There's no point in bringing the back it's just going to cause congestion between the lines it shares tracks with and I doubt Jamaica yard would have enough trains IMO the should just follow the same express service patterns as the and and have certain trains during rush hour run express.

[Around the Horn]

The best thing to do is bring back the , extend it to Kings Hwy or Coney along with the Express that way theres Local service during rush. can't do it since it wouldn't have enough trains to send out to Kings Hwy, Coney Island, etc. If the were still here some Jamaica Yard sets can be sent out to Bklyn as the after 2 Av DURING RUSH HR to serve those that use Local stops. If that happens then the gets its old route but not predicting anything. Non-rush hours as its original route from Forest Hills-71st to 2nd Av.

 

Thats why I keep mentioning the old routes! It would've been great if the old 2001 routes were still here that way there is another line to serve Local riders. My best guess is that some trains run Local and some run Express. This would be a great discussion since theres already a packed in Qns.

You'll have to think of something else.That 6 Av is a goldmine and the smartest change the MTA has made in years...

 

Ultimately its a good problem to have...

[46Dover]

You'll have to think of something else.That 6 Av is a goldmine and the smartest change the MTA has made in years...

 

Ultimately its a good problem to have...

With that said: with hindsight being 20/20, would you think they wouldn't have eliminated the and not moved the if it was known Culver Exp would come to fruition?

[Art Vandelay]

I think they would have 100 of every 100 times. The M as it is today is infinitely more valuable than a V Culver Express. 

[T to Dyre Avenue]

You'll have to think of something else.That 6 Av is a goldmine and the smartest change the MTA has made in years...

 

Ultimately its a good problem to have...

In past "F express" threads, I've suggested returning to the pre-2001 / tph split of 12/18, then splitting those 18 tph into 12 local trains to/from Church Ave and 6 express trains to/from Coney Island, making all stops below Church. But then there would be less rush hour service, which would be a problem on the 53rd St and 8th Ave corridors. And the stations south of Church Ave would see a very big cut in their rush hour service. Even though those stations don't have high ridership, who would really want to see their rush hour train service drop from 15 to just 6 tph?

There's no point in bringing the back it's just going to cause congestion between the lines it shares tracks with and I doubt Jamaica yard would have enough trains IMO the should just follow the same express service patterns as the and and have certain trains during rush hour run express.

But even then, the local stations would see a big drop in peak direction rush hour service and be more crowded, especially at the local stations north of Church Ave. Unless you're talking about running an F express between Kings Highway and 18th Ave only. But that would skip only four stops, so it won't save much time over the local. And it would be of very limited use for people headed to the beach and the park rides.

 

If the City really wants an express service to/from Coney Island, then I think they should really consider running it along one of the other lines serving CI. Maybe on the or .

[Eric B]

With that said: with hindsight being 20/20, would you think they wouldn't have eliminated the and not moved the if it was known Culver Exp would come to fruition?

It was already planned, but then, as the was changed during the massive Culver reconstruction, they seemed to be not thinking about that at the moment, as it seemed so far off, and they would figure it out when the time came.

[Metro CSW]

I can actually see either one of two things: The extended to Kings Highway during Weekday Peak periods or an weekdays service pattern. If the increase in fleet capacity does come into light (as the MTA has been hoping for years now) and Coney Island yard gets expanded; if that still in the plans, then the first may not be problem at all. I don't think the should be brought back seeing as how the service is an awesome addition the Sixth Avenue Service, honestly. Service south of Church Avenue Culver line may need a increase anyways and so does the as a whole, if need be. The stations are growing in ridership, well slowly and the MTA should experiment with this like they did with the new bus routes, which are working out pretty well. Which means their will be a need for the Bergen Street Lower Level to be constructed to avoid obvious confusions and multiple transfers between MetroTech, Holy-Schmerhorn and even Seventh Ave.

[Priincenene]

The has high ridership due to high residence around the time the was eliminated between 2009-now Manhattan and Queens itself has overgrown popularity. Believe me, if the was still here, it would have gained high ridership throughout the years it has been defunct. Same with the Brown . The needs help not only in Queens Blvd, but in the West End. I keep repeating this but some are right, the has been doing good as Orange but I wouldn't see it as the GREATEST idea the MTA came up with, definatly not.

[Priincenene]

It was already planned, but then, as the was changed during the massive Culver reconstruction, they seemed to be not thinking about that at the moment, as it seemed so far off, and they would figure it out when the time came.

Right and now since DeBlasio and Cuomo came up with funding to the Capital Program, they can't say they don't have the financial support for it or that they still have budget cuts. Don't count on me though, I'm not the MTA.

[MysteriousBtrain]

Right and now since DeBlasio and Cuomo came up with funding to the Capital Program, they can't say they don't have the financial support for it or that they still have budget cuts. Don't count on me though, I'm not the MTA.

At this time, they are more focused on the east side access, 2 Av subway, and a plan for a Utica Avenue subway. Doubt the and the Culver line are in their minds now.

[P3F]

I would:

Return the to 18 TPH and the to 12 TPH during rush hours.

 

During the rush:

Call 6 TPH trains and 12 TPH trains.

trains run express on Hillside Avenue and the Culver Line, both directions where available, and peak direction below Church Avenue.

trains run the current route.

Middays and evenings follow this service pattern. Late nights and weekends keep their current routings.

A mix of and trains terminate at Kings Highway to keep Coney Island at capacity.

 

During Summer Weekends, the rush hour arrangement is put in place between 9:00 AM and 10:00 PM, except trains do not run express on Hillside Avenue.

 

Different notation:

keeps its letter, and the express service becomes .

[Wallyhorse]

My original plan was and still is:

becomes the Culver Express to Coney Island at all times (except late nights when the continues to run to Coney Island unless otherwise warranted)

and both terminate at Church Avenue (with select local trains when needed running to Kings Highway to relieve congestion at Church, except for late nights as noted).   

This gives Park Slope riders (at express stations) a new one-seat 8th Avenue line option, adds service Park Slope where it's needed most and gives riders on Coney Island a one-seat 8th Avenue option they currently don't have.  It also gives riders on Fulton looking for 8th Avenue midtown a new option of switching to the at Jay Street and skipping much of lower Manhattan.  Riders on the Culver looking for midtown 6th Avenue can ride to Broadway-Lafayette in this scenario and switch to the or there. 

As for the issue of Broadway-Lafayette having three lines on the local track, this I think can work since it's only one station where this is an issue.  Maybe you have a handful of trains during rush hour run via the Crosstown if it puts it over 30 TPH overall stopping at Broadway-Lafayette (but not too many) to accommodate this if needed.

As for replacing the on Fulton:

I would have it where the runs to Euclid at all times and extended to Lefferts late nights.  Doing this eliminates the late-night Lefferts shuttle. If you need to because of capacity a handful of trains (usually those to/from 179) can terminate at Chambers during rush hours.

I would also bring back the as a LIMITED (2-4 TPH) line at all times that runs between Chambers and 168 mainly for those too lazy to walk to the platform at Chambers if looking for Penn Station/Port Authority and for those on CPW looking for local stations south of 59th.

Both changes allow the to operate as an express at all times between 168 and Euclid.  

That's how I would do it.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

I would:

Return the to 18 TPH and the to 12 TPH during rush hours.

 

During the rush:

Call 6 TPH trains and 12 TPH trains.

trains run express on Hillside Avenue and the Culver Line, both directions where available, and peak direction below Church Avenue.

trains run the current route.

Middays and evenings follow this service pattern. Late nights and weekends keep their current routings.

A mix of and trains terminate at Kings Highway to keep Coney Island at capacity.

 

During Summer Weekends, the rush hour arrangement is put in place between 9:00 AM and 10:00 PM, except trains do not run express on Hillside Avenue.

 

Different notation:

keeps its letter, and the express service becomes .

The Hillside Ave local stations have very high ridership and 169th St has multiple bus connections. Reducing tph from 15 to 6 there is not a good idea. Better to do 12 trains that run local on Hillside and in Brooklyn and 6 trains that run express. Under no circumstance, should there be twice as much express service than local service in those two areas.

[46Dover]

The Hillside Ave local stations have very high ridership and 169th St has multiple bus connections. Reducing tph from 15 to 6 there is not a good idea. Better to do 12 trains that run local on Hillside and in Brooklyn and 6 trains that run express. Under no circumstance, should there be twice as much express service than local service in those two areas.

How about running the local and express since it's the way they (ran) in Queens?

[paulrivera]

It's the reason we don't have a Jerome Av express.

If only they had found a way to link the Polo Grounds shuttle to Lenox Avenue all those years ago....

[trainfan22]

If only one of those express tracks between Church and Jay is operational, that's news to me. I could have sworn I've seen recent G.O.'s on the line using either the northbound or the southbound express track. Although trains usually switched between 4th Ave and Smith & 9th, so maybe one of the tracks is out of service between Smith & 9th and Jay.

 

And aren't city officials focused on express service to Coney Island independent of rush hour traffic?

The express track between Jay and Smith 9th are operational, Museum trains and Yard moves travel on them all the time..

[T to Dyre Avenue]

How about running the local and express since it's the way they (ran) in Queens?

Why? Just because "that's the way it was" doesn't mean that's the way it should be. Essentially, the and are the same line from 71st Ave to Jay St (so this new would run express alongside the and in Queens). Other than running local on 6th Ave, this has nothing in common with one that ran from 2002-10.

 

But I'm still not sure if running an express to/from Coney Island via the line is the best option. I'd really like for the City officials who proposed this express service to flesh out any details about how, when and between which stops it would run before I say for sure if it's doable or not. But with City pols, you can never count on them doing that.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

The express track between Jay and Smith 9th are operational, Museum trains and Yard moves travel on them all the time..

Thank you. That's what I thought. It is the signal and track capacity issues on 6th Ave and the Queens Blvd express tracks (plus the lack of sufficient subway cars) that are preventing the MTA from running an express between Church and Jay. You see, I think it could be a well-used service, as long as it doesn't require a cut in service to the local stops between Church and Jay.

[P3F]

The Hillside Ave local stations have very high ridership and 169th St has multiple bus connections. Reducing tph from 15 to 6 there is not a good idea. Better to do 12 trains that run local on Hillside and in Brooklyn and 6 trains that run express. Under no circumstance, should there be twice as much express service than local service in those two areas.

If you carefully read my post, you will notice that I did leave 12 TPH on the Hillside Local. I just made the express and the local.

[Around the Horn]

My original plan was and still is:

 

becomes the Culver Express to Coney Island at all times (except late nights when the continues to run to Coney Island unless otherwise warranted)

 

and both terminate at Church Avenue (with select local trains when needed running to Kings Highway to relieve congestion at Church, except for late nights as noted).   

 

This gives Park Slope riders (at express stations) a new one-seat 8th Avenue line option, adds service Park Slope where it's needed most and gives riders on Coney Island a one-seat 8th Avenue option they currently don't have.  It also gives riders on Fulton looking for 8th Avenue midtown a new option of switching to the at Jay Street and skipping much of lower Manhattan.  Riders on the Culver looking for midtown 6th Avenue can ride to Broadway-Lafayette in this scenario and switch to the or there. 

 

As for the issue of Broadway-Lafayette having three lines on the local track, this I think can work since it's only one station where this is an issue.  Maybe you have a handful of trains during rush hour run via the Crosstown if it puts it over 30 TPH overall stopping at Broadway-Lafayette (but not too many) to accommodate this if needed.

 

As for replacing the on Fulton:

 

I would have it where the runs to Euclid at all times and extended to Lefferts late nights.  Doing this eliminates the late-night Lefferts shuttle. If you need to because of capacity a handful of trains (usually those to/from 179) can terminate at Chambers during rush hours.

 

I would also bring back the as a LIMITED (2-4 TPH) line at all times that runs between Chambers and 168 mainly for those too lazy to walk to the platform at Chambers if looking for Penn Station/Port Authority and for those on CPW looking for local stations south of 59th.

 

Both changes allow the to operate as an express at all times between 168 and Euclid.  

 

That's how I would do it.

That's an interesting idea...

I didn't think of the C at all...

However,I'm not so sure about the E to Euclid.That might be too long.But then again the MTA is getting new cars.Just add a few options in case the Culver express happens and there you go...

 

THE OTHER OPTION

remains in place

is the Culver express

OR

is the Culver express

Lefferts s are redesignated and run local on Fulton

OR your plan except that the is express on 8th Av

runs at current service levels

[bobtehpanda]

I would:

Return the to 18 TPH and the to 12 TPH during rush hours.

 

During the rush:

Call 6 TPH trains and 12 TPH trains.

trains run express on Hillside Avenue and the Culver Line, both directions where available, and peak direction below Church Avenue.

trains run the current route.

Middays and evenings follow this service pattern. Late nights and weekends keep their current routings.

A mix of and trains terminate at Kings Highway to keep Coney Island at capacity.

 

During Summer Weekends, the rush hour arrangement is put in place between 9:00 AM and 10:00 PM, except trains do not run express on Hillside Avenue.

 

Different notation:

keeps its letter, and the express service becomes .

 

Tank ridership and make commutes inconvenient.

 

I fixed this for you.

 

Seriously, the hard-on some people have for a Culver Express is mind-boggling, when there is no good way to do it and there isn't any demonstrable need for one other than to get some foamers off.

[Wallyhorse]

That's an interesting idea...

I didn't think of the C at all...

However,I'm not so sure about the E to Euclid.That might be too long.But then again the MTA is getting new cars.Just add a few options in case the Culver express happens and there you go...

 

THE OTHER OPTION

remains in place

is the Culver express

OR

is the Culver express

Lefferts s are redesignated and run local on Fulton

OR your plan except that the is express on 8th Av

runs at current service levels

The in this is STRICTLY a supplemental line for those as noted too lazy at Chambers-WTC to walk to the platform for trains there (especially if going to Penn Station or Port Authority, where going uptown the main exit is the rear of the station) and for people on CPW who actually need stations south of West 4th and don't want to have to switch trains.  That's why I only have it at 2-4 TPH, it's purpose is to supplement the and handle what the currently does between West 4 and Chambers.  

 

The idea of making the the Culver Express is that it:

 

Gives riders at Coney Island a one-seat 8th Avenue option they currently don't have (they would still have a 6th Avenue option with the )

 

Gives riders in Park Slope BOTH additional service AND (at express stations) a one-seat 8th Avenue option to Midtown, Penn Station and Port Authority (this will become more important when the Hudson Yards project opens).

 

Gives riders on the Fulton branch (and especially at Jay Street) the option of switching to the at Jay if they are looking for 8th Avenue Midtown as such would skip what some still call The Financial District as the does.   Also gives riders at Jay Street-Metrotech additional service to Manhattan since the would become the Fulton local at all times. 

 

Gives riders on 8th Avenue the option of switching at Broadway-Lafayette to the (and overnights).

 

The only difference would be riders on the Culver if they are looking for 6th Avenue midtown would have a two-seat ride, but those riders can make a same platform transfer at Broadway-Lafayette to the or .